Goaltending

[DirtyDeeds]

At this point of time I don't see any of our prospects stepping up.

Maybe if we get someone else as our goalie coach but the Flames are not likely to make that change.

 

So that leaves free market trades..  Few teams want to trade away a possible starter this time of year. Yotes might trade Antti Raanta but only because Kemper is playing better than lights out..

[robrob74]

27 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

yes he has.. He stole us the game with his shutout against the Preds....

 

He's played so well I forgot about one game that he actually looked like an NHL goalie in. 

 

But youre right he probably has had has had a good season so far. According to Smith he has. 

 

Sorry I forgot about one game he actually played well in.

 

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

He's played so well I forgot about one game that he actually looked like an NHL goalie in. 

 

But youre right he probably has had has had a good season so far. According to Smith he has. 

 

Sorry I forgot about one game he actually played well in.

 

 

I have trouble remembering if he was completely dialed in or the defense was keeping the shots outside.  Maybe both.

I think we were all impressed regardless.  The next start, not so much.

 

37 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

At this point of time I don't see any of our prospects stepping up.

Maybe if we get someone else as our goalie coach but the Flames are not likely to make that change.

 

So that leaves free market trades..  Few teams want to trade away a possible starter this time of year. Yotes might trade Antti Raanta but only because Kemper is playing better than lights out..

 

The prospects are not doing well.  Any upgrade or change has to be looking to a team with a weakness elsewhere and paying the price.  We could approach a team that is struggling with wins and have injuries, or we wait till TDL for a team that is out of the playoff race.  The goalie coach change has to wait.  

[DirtyDeeds]

18 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I have trouble remembering if he was completely dialed in or the defense was keeping the shots outside.  Maybe both.

I think we were all impressed regardless.  The next start, not so much.

 

 

The prospects are not doing well.  Any upgrade or change has to be looking to a team with a weakness elsewhere and paying the price.  We could approach a team that is struggling with wins and have injuries, or we wait till TDL for a team that is out of the playoff race.  The goalie coach change has to wait.  

How long is enough time to see the Goalie coaching results are a failure?

I again ask is there even one success story from this guy? How long until someone says enough..? We have had many high end goalie prospects yet one by one they seem to struggle... then vanish

 

The successes are few and all from signings or trades...  George Johnson calls Singalet  a Guru.. I don't see any Guru at all. He must "talk a good game" and/or "work long hours"... Still don't see any success from this guy.

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

How long is enough time to see the Goalie coaching results are a failure?

I again ask is there even one success story from this guy? How long until someone says enough..? We have had many high end goalie prospects yet one by one they seem to struggle... then vanish

 

The successes are few and all from signings or trades...  George Johnson calls Singalet  a Guru.. I don't see any Guru at all. He must "talk a good game" and/or "work long hours"... Still don't see any success from this guy.

Is it any different anywhere else in the league ? I think a Goalie coach at the NHL level is likely more of a watchdog on the selected two reminding them if they are getting away from their fundamentals. What is Siglet going to tell Smith ?

[DirtyDeeds]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

Is it any different anywhere else in the league ? I think a Goalie coach at the NHL level is likely more of a watchdog on the selected two reminding them if they are getting away from their fundamentals. What is Siglet going to tell Smith ?

I don't have that information but whatever he is telling him is screwing up his game and confidence...

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

How long is enough time to see the Goalie coaching results are a failure?

I again ask is there even one success story from this guy? How long until someone says enough..? We have had many high end goalie prospects yet one by one they seem to struggle... then vanish

 

The successes are few and all from signings or trades...  George Johnson calls Singalet  a Guru.. I don't see any Guru at all. He must "talk a good game" and/or "work long hours"... Still don't see any success from this guy.

 

I say it has to wait because they will not make any change in season.  I agree there has been little success under his tenure.  Then again, what happened to Gillies and Parsons.  Gillies may be a result of him limited time here, but I don;t know what to say abouut Parsons.  Goalies are voodoo, but it seems like the voodoo is very strong here.

I can only blame some on scouting (MacDonald), but the results are worse than expected.  Lack was crap, but didn;t get starts early enough.  Rittich struggled when called to be the starter, but why was he played so little before that.

 

By the sounds of it, JS is making the case for the starter this year again.  Given the results from Smith, it doesn;t sound like the right choices are being made.  Sure, you go with Smith after a shutout, but anyone without a clue could make that call.  You need to look at records in that situation and teams played.  

[Flyerfan52]

33 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

How long is enough time to see the Goalie coaching results are a failure?

I again ask is there even one success story from this guy? How long until someone says enough..? We have had many high end goalie prospects yet one by one they seem to struggle... then vanish

 

The successes are few and all from signings or trades...  George Johnson calls Singalet  a Guru.. I don't see any Guru at all. He must "talk a good game" and/or "work long hours"... Still don't see any success from this guy.

Like the skaters of this generation the young goalies are different from the old guard. i see it over & over @ all positions where players that are driven to be the best shake off the coddling of their developement years (I think it was Tim Hunter who said these days coachs need to be as much babysitter as coach) & start working with outside experts. For skaters is guys like Adam Oates & Gary Roberts while the goaltending fraterity has their own version.

The skills on these modern kids are there as they have passed on normal childhoods to live for only hockey since they were 5. What is missing is the expertise to fine tune those skills. Many of these outside experts are truely the "gurus" as with so many you see a huge turnaround when players commit to them. Even during the season they are available if their client feels the need to talk to them.

 

It's too late for them to help the old guard like Smith but for young players @ any position working with them is walking the talk.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Like the skaters of this generation the young goalies are different from the old guard. i see it over & over @ all positions where players that are driven to be the best shake off the coddling of their developement years (I think it was Tim Hunter who said these days coachs need to be as much babysitter as coach) & start working with outside experts. For skaters is guys like Adam Oates & Gary Roberts while the goaltending fraterity has their own version.

The skills on these modern kids are there as they have passed on normal childhoods to live for only hockey since they were 5. What is missing is the expertise to fine tune those skills. Many of these outside experts are truely the "gurus" as with so many you see a huge turnaround when players commit to them. Even during the season they are available if their client feels the need to talk to them.

 

It's too late for them to help the old guard like Smith but for young players @ any position working with them is walking the talk.

 

I think you mentioned that Helle worked with one of those prior to last season.

Probably not much chance of changing Smith for the better, since he believes he has to play the puck.  

Rittich may never get to be a starter, but there is always room for improvement.

He's very athletic.  Needs work on consistency, but he isnt getting enough starts to really help there.

[Carty]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Probably not much chance of changing Smith for the better, since he believes he has to play the puck.  

Rittich may never get to be a starter, but there is always room for improvement.

He's very athletic.  Needs work on consistency, but he isnt getting enough starts to really help there.

 

If it were up to me, I would go back to Rittich next game...   With the way Smith has been playing (moments of brilliance and too many moments of wtf), maybe Smith needs to have the push of feeling more competition and not be gifted the starters role...   If he wants to keep playing after his contract is up this season, he should also keep in mind that how he plays will dictate what he earns on his next contract and whether he is considered a starter or a backup next season...   He also needs to be more selective with how far he strays from the net, when he does it and how he makes his choices to try and make passes...   

 

As a goalie starts to get older, they have to adapt their style...   It can be done, and Smith has shown often enough over his career that he was a good enough goaltender to be smart enough he should be able to realize that on his own, and if he doesn't he is screwed and so is the team...   Because he sure as hell won't hear any pearls of wisdom from Sigalet who was never anything more than a very mediocre goalie himself...   I have no doubt that Smith is still capable of playing better and more consistently than he has been, he just needs to get his head in the right place...   The team needs that Smith...

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't have that information but whatever he is telling him is screwing up his game and confidence...

Maybe he hasn't said anything to Smith, maybe he should.

[MAC331]

14 hours ago, Carty said:

 

If it were up to me, I would go back to Rittich next game...   With the way Smith has been playing (moments of brilliance and too many moments of wtf), maybe Smith needs to have the push of feeling more competition and not be gifted the starters role...   If he wants to keep playing after his contract is up this season, he should also keep in mind that how he plays will dictate what he earns on his next contract and whether he is considered a starter or a backup next season...   He also needs to be more selective with how far he strays from the net, when he does it and how he makes his choices to try and make passes...   

 

As a goalie starts to get older, they have to adapt their style...   It can be done, and Smith has shown often enough over his career that he was a good enough goaltender to be smart enough he should be able to realize that on his own, and if he doesn't he is screwed and so is the team...   Because he sure as hell won't hear any pearls of wisdom from Sigalet who was never anything more than a very mediocre goalie himself...   I have no doubt that Smith is still capable of playing better and more consistently than he has been, he just needs to get his head in the right place...   The team needs that Smith...

I would have to think Smith with getting his rear end kicked the other night knows he has to be way better in order to support the team. If he is to arrogant to realize how poorly he has played and sloughs it off we are in big trouble.

[kehatch]

I have no idea how Sigalet still has a job. He shouldn't have it based on the results alone. But I don't think you can hang Smith's results in him. It is much more likely age and injury have caught up to him then a coach has derailed his game. 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, kehatch said:

I have no idea how Sigalet still has a job. He shouldn't have it based on the results alone. But I don't think you can hang Smith's results in him. It is much more likely age and injury have caught up to him then a coach has derailed his game. 

 

The big thing Sigalet does is monitor the goalie situation.  Suggests starts to the coach.

I believe the start in STL was his choice.

Sounded like BP made the call to start Rittich in NY and MTL.

 

I've heard in the past where SIgalet made suggestions to Ramo about playing deeper.  Smith plays really deep in his net this year.  And he's getting killed on his glove side.

[conundrumed]

Sounds like going back to Smith vs the Leafs tonight.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into beating a dead horse.

Smith should be about ready to put it altogether by now.

[travel_dude]

51 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Sounds like going back to Smith vs the Leafs tonight.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into beating a dead horse.

Smith should be about ready to put it altogether by now.

 

I find it odd that Smith has played this badly at the start of a season.  Last year we had bigger issues on D and more holes in the roster.

He should be playing better than he is.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think Smith needs to play every 2nd game.  Not because Rittich is better, but because I think he's still worn out.  Face down on the ice for 2-3 seconds after a save and the puck still in play?  Maybe that Nashville game almost killed him.  

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

I find it odd that Smith has played this badly at the start of a season.  Last year we had bigger issues on D and more holes in the roster.

He should be playing better than he is.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think Smith needs to play every 2nd game.  Not because Rittich is better, but because I think he's still worn out.  Face down on the ice for 2-3 seconds after a save and the puck still in play?  Maybe that Nashville game almost killed him.  

Just the mental part of the game can take a bit, even for an older goalie. Sometimes you're tracking a beach ball and when you're struggling it shrinks to a period.

Smith's been through it before so I think he'll bounce back soon. His pad stack on Ovechkin was hilarious. I'm all for a good pad stack when your stick/glove is the cherry on top. That one was just a flail, lol. He'll get better at tracking and anticipating.

[cross16]

 

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

I have no idea how Sigalet still has a job. He shouldn't have it based on the results alone. But I don't think you can hang Smith's results in him. It is much more likely age and injury have caught up to him then a coach has derailed his game. 

 

Exactly.

 

for those that never liked the deal, this was the argument that was made. Typically when goalies reach older ages the decline is not gradual, it's a fall right off of a cliff. The fact that it appears it may be happening now it just simple probabilities and should not be reflective of anyone in the organization. 

[JTech780]

Our goalies so far:

 

Smith (NHL) 8 games .869%

Rittich (NHL) 5 games .933%

Gillies (AHL) 6 games .832%

Parsons (AHL) 3 games .831%

Schneider (ECHL) 4 games .907%

McDonald (ECHL) 1 game .926%

 

Not a great start for our goaltenders.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Our goalies so far:

 

Smith (NHL) 8 games .869%

Rittich (NHL) 5 games .933%

Gillies (AHL) 6 games .832%

Parsons (AHL) 3 games .831%

Schneider (ECHL) 4 games .907%

McDonald (ECHL) 1 game .926%

 

Not a great start for our goaltenders.

The season is young. A few good starts will change those numbers drastically.

[Zirakzigil]

10 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I would have to think Smith with getting his rear end kicked the other night knows he has to be way better in order to support the team. If he is to arrogant to realize how poorly he has played and sloughs it off we are in big trouble.

Smith was very brutal and honest to the media after the Pens game, he openly stated he has to be better. Smith is only part of the problem though, the defensive structure in front of him has been inconsistent at best. The team as a whole has to be better. A prime Kipper in net wouldnt even completely mask all the problems on the ice. 

[cross16]

Something worth watching...

 

Joonas Korpisalo is about to start his 3rd straight game for the Jackets. Neither goalie has been fantastic, Korpisalo slightly better but it is really slight and Elliott Friedman was speculating the other day he was wondering how happy Bobrovsky is. Given there appears to be nothing on the extension front as it relates to Bobrovsky, and the fact they seem high on Korpisalo it's probably one of the few starts the Flames realistic may have an option on and it could turn into a situation where if Columbus isn't interested in paying him does Bobrovsky ask to go elsewhere?

 

Worth monitoring at least as it is early and it does seem to be a situation where it's not a given Bobrovsky is staying there long term. 

[Thebrewcrew]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Something worth watching...

 

Joonas Korpisalo is about to start his 3rd straight game for the Jackets. Neither goalie has been fantastic, Korpisalo slightly better but it is really slight and Elliott Friedman was speculating the other day he was wondering how happy Bobrovsky is. Given there appears to be nothing on the extension front as it relates to Bobrovsky, and the fact they seem high on Korpisalo it's probably one of the few starts the Flames realistic may have an option on and it could turn into a situation where if Columbus isn't interested in paying him does Bobrovsky ask to go elsewhere?

 

Worth monitoring at least as it is early and it does seem to be a situation where it's not a given Bobrovsky is staying there long term. 

The next goalie BT brings in next season, he needs to pay up and get an established no questions asked #1 for the next 5+ years. He's missed on Andersen, Bishop, Talbot, Fleury, and settled for stop gaps in Elliott and Smith. Maybe that goalie isn't Bob but it's time for him to pay up and get the true #1 we haven't had since Kipper.

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Something worth watching...

 

Joonas Korpisalo is about to start his 3rd straight game for the Jackets. Neither goalie has been fantastic, Korpisalo slightly better but it is really slight and Elliott Friedman was speculating the other day he was wondering how happy Bobrovsky is. Given there appears to be nothing on the extension front as it relates to Bobrovsky, and the fact they seem high on Korpisalo it's probably one of the few starts the Flames realistic may have an option on and it could turn into a situation where if Columbus isn't interested in paying him does Bobrovsky ask to go elsewhere?

 

Worth monitoring at least as it is early and it does seem to be a situation where it's not a given Bobrovsky is staying there long term. 

 

Didn't Smith play for Torts in Tampa? Smith, Backlund, and a pick for Bobrovsky. The biggest thing here is that Bobrovsky has a full NMC, and I am not sure he would waive to come here. 

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

Didn't Smith play for Torts in Tampa? Smith, Backlund, and a pick for Bobrovsky. The biggest thing here is that Bobrovsky has a full NMC, and I am not sure he would waive to come here. 

This guy has been nothing but trouble, why would we want him especially when he thinks he is worth 10M ?