Goaltending

[jjgallow]

Backstrom was good tonight.   Not sure that change anything.   Hoping it doesn't.  But he was good.   Always liked the guy.

[tincup1]

I really thought Backstrom looked good.  Everything just seemed more calm with him in there.  I know it's Montreal and everything but i'd like to see him again.  I'd like to see Ortio and Backstrom finish the season together... not sure why Hiller's getting another start tomorrow.  Hartley seems determined to keep giving him chances for some strange reason.

[kehatch]

Backstrom was good tonight. Not sure that change anything. Hoping it doesn't. But he was good. Always liked the guy.

This I agree with. I hope he shuts out the Wild. It would be a great swan song.

[phoenix66]

If there was a 38 year old goalie playing for another team with a few good games how high would he be in the conversation? What if he hasn't had a good season since 2011/2012? What if he had over a year off due to poor play and injury and was a reluctant backup before that. Would a few good games for a non playoff team down the stretch convince you he is a better option then the multitude of guys that are also available?

We might as well pull Kipper out of retirement. They are the same age and have played almost the same number of games over the past few years. They were also both relevant in about the same time period.

Backstrom is an impractical option and there is nothing he can do in the few games he will get to change that.

On the contrary, you're missing the big picture that he could be the perfect gift. A solid veteran proven starter you can get one good year out of.

In that year Ortio develops as a backup and possibly reaches his true potential with the right mentoring from Backstrom.

You take that year to get more solid options in your system, Gillies gets another year of experience.

These potential expansion draft casualties we want to get our hands on? Likely not being moved until they have to be,which is trade deadline next season..possibly even the draft since they don't even have to announce the details and if it's even happening until July 1.

If Ramo is even still in the picture, and I think he should be, if he can't start the season we again have a solid veteran to compete and hold the Fort.

At the he's movable for picks to a contender

You want to buy time to properly attain a true #1 into your system? You need a temp solution.to think we possibly got one for just David Jones, is a miracle. And you'll get him cheap.

When we have the proper money to spend on this supposed saviour we all seem to be drooling over, more money will be off the books

All accomplished without overpaying in free agency.. Or losing picks and prospects

So no..it's not irrelevant.. It's potentially the steal of the year

[kehatch]

Steal of the year. That's a bit dramatic. If the Flames want a short term veteran option in net there are better options.

Tim Thomas and Martin Brodeur are both recent examples of goalies that played past 38 and neither was good at that age. Backstrom hasn't been good in years. Kipper fell off about the same age that Backstrom did.

Expecting him to play well over a full season at this age isn't realistic. He would be worse then Hiller was and Treliving would be failing the team.

Even if you think it's possible he could be good you still need to acknowledge the reasonable possibility that he could be terrible. And once you do that its tough to suggest that Treliving can take that type of gamble. Getting 1 year out of a veteran goalie is supposed to be the insurance, not the gamble. There isn't enough up side to take that risk.

[phoenix66]

Steal of the year. That's a bit dramatic. If the Flames want a short term veteran option in net there are better options.

Tim Thomas and Martin Brodeur are both recent examples of goalies that played past 38 and neither was good at that age. Backstrom hasn't been good in years. Kipper fell off about the same age that Backstrom did.

Expecting him to play well over a full season at this age isn't realistic. He would be worse then Hiller was and Treliving would be failing the team.

Man I am gonna giggle so hard if this happens.luckiky it's BT that gets paid the bucks to make these decisions.

You mean the year Brodeur was a. 906 with 6 shutouts? Thomas sat out his 38Th year but at 37 he had a. 920 And 5 shutouts. I could handle that for one year if it meant fixing the system to get the long term solution in properly

It's just as possible and as much of a gamble getting Bishop here and he stinks the joint out.. Mine is an inexpensive gamble

And again, if you don't think for one second that wasn't in their heads when they got him? Then you really missed the signs

[CheersMan]

On the contrary, you're missing the big picture that he could be the perfect gift. A solid veteran proven starter you can get one good year out of.

In that year Ortio develops as a backup and possibly reaches his true potential with the right mentoring from Backstrom.

You take that year to get more solid options in your system, Gillies gets another year of experience.

These potential expansion draft casualties we want to get our hands on? Likely not being moved until they have to be,which is trade deadline next season..possibly even the draft since they don't even have to announce the details and if it's even happening until July 1.

If Ramo is even still in the picture, and I think he should be, if he can't start the season we again have a solid veteran to compete and hold the Fort.

At the he's movable for picks to a contender

You want to buy time to properly attain a true #1 into your system? You need a temp solution.to think we possibly got one for just David Jones, is a miracle. And you'll get him cheap.

When we have the proper money to spend on this supposed saviour we all seem to be drooling over, more money will be off the books

All accomplished without overpaying in free agency.. Or losing picks and prospects

So no..it's not irrelevant.. It's potentially the steal of the year

 

You make some good points.  I think the goaltending landscaped is about to change drastically over the next 12 months.  Black Friday sales are approaching followed by Boxing Day sales.  There has never been a better time to be in the market for a goaltender....well at least since the last expansion.  What about the downsizing of equipment proposals being thrown around, that may change who we target as well.  The positional shot blocking GT'er may go the way side in favour of the more athletic sort.  Lot's to consider here.  

[cccsberg]

Hasek both times.. his 38 yr old stats and his 40 yrs old stats

OK, thanks. Hasek one of the best ever.  You never know.

 

As for the game tonight, Backstrom was solid, though not overly tested.  The one thing I really noticed was his puck handling, especially very good, soft and right on the tape passes to the D.  It should be interesting to contrast Hiller tomorrow and then Backstrom versus Minnesota.

[kehatch]

Man I am gonna giggle so hard if this happens.luckiky it's BT that gets paid the bucks to make these decisions.

You mean the year Brodeur was a. 906 with 6 shutouts? Thomas sat out his 38Th year but at 37 he had a. 920 And 5 shutouts. I could handle that for one year if it meant fixing the system to get the long term solution in properly

It's just as possible and as much of a gamble getting Bishop here and he stinks the joint out.. Mine is an inexpensive gamble

And again, if you don't think for one second that wasn't in their heads when they got him? Then you really missed the signs

Brodeur was one of the best of all time and he was outplayed by his backup that season. Thomas was a late started and he tanked the year he got back.

There is an incredibly short list of goalies that succeeded at 38/39 and none of them all of a sudden rebounded after declining for 4 seasons. One only needs to look at history (including his history) to know how long the odds are that he is any sort of upgrade for next season.

How that is less of a risk then Elliot, Ramo, Kuemper, Reimer, Montoya, etc? It isn't even less of a risk then Ward, Howard, or Hiller. If your going for that level of a gamble it might as well be for a young unproven goalie (and no JJ I am not advocating that ).

If the Flames choose to target a temporary bridge to get them past the draft lottery there are plenty of better options then Backstrom.

[jjgallow]

How that is less of a risk then Elliot, Ramo, Kuemper, Reimer, Montoya, etc? It isn't even less of a risk then Ward, Howard, or Hiller. If your going for that level of a gamble it might as well be for a young unproven goalie (and no JJ I am not advocating that ).

 

I'm glad you said it before me

 

It would be an interesting gamble if we were a cup contender right now.   Play Backstrom into form.  

 

I believe it could happen.   Did Kipper really get too old, or did he become a Dad?  Hard to tell.   Backstrom is hungry.  He's had what it takes.  It's possible.   But, extremely, extremely unlikely.

 

Yes, a young unproven goalie would be significantly less riskier.

 

the biggest problem with taking that risk on Backstrom, is that it completely messes up the rebuild.

 

It takes away development time away from Ortio (and also time we need to evaluate him).  If prolonged, it could eventually take time away from Gillies.  And, domino through the prospect system.

 

Meanwhile, in our cup window, there is Zero chance of Backstrom being an NHL tender by then.  Literally zero.

 

This is why I didn't like the trade...to be honest.  The potentially high-risk situation that it could create.

 

I guess we'll see how it plays out.  At this point, I'm not overly worried.  But a small series of "miracles" could create a situation.

[robrob1974]

How long did Dwayne Roleston play?

[mikDUCK]

I'm realy amazed how many of you guys is considering Backstrom as option  . Yes he WAS good, but it is long time ago. He had two very bad seasons and then one without a game played. There is no way he can be compared to Hasek or Broudeur.

 

For comparison - Hiller. Was elite goalie all his years with Ducks and very good with Flames last season. Now, after one unsuccessful season (with the "great" assistance of the whole team and experiment with three goalkeepers) he is easily written off?

[Heartbreaker]

I'd like to see Ortio and Backstrom Finnish the season together...

Fixed it for you.

Love.

[travel_dude]

I'm glad you said it before me

 

It would be an interesting gamble if we were a cup contender right now.   Play Backstrom into form.  

 

I believe it could happen.   Did Kipper really get too old, or did he become a Dad?  Hard to tell.   Backstrom is hungry.  He's had what it takes.  It's possible.   But, extremely, extremely unlikely.

 

Yes, a young unproven goalie would be significantly less riskier.

 

the biggest problem with taking that risk on Backstrom, is that it completely messes up the rebuild.

 

It takes away development time away from Ortio (and also time we need to evaluate him).  If prolonged, it could eventually take time away from Gillies.  And, domino through the prospect system.

 

Meanwhile, in our cup window, there is Zero chance of Backstrom being an NHL tender by then.  Literally zero.

 

This is why I didn't like the trade...to be honest.  The potentially high-risk situation that it could create.

 

I guess we'll see how it plays out.  At this point, I'm not overly worried.  But a small series of "miracles" could create a situation.

 

A young, unproven goalie is not less risky.  It's about the same.  

 

Backstrom does not mess up any part of the rebuild.  Developing Ortio in the NHL sounds scary to me.  Starting him as a backup is less risky.  Whether the starter is Backstrom or (insert random NHL starting goalie), Ortio will get enough games to evaluate him, and even allow him to steal the crease.

 

No, I don't prescribe bringing in Backstrom.  I'm not even a big fan of bringing back Ramo.  Bring in a true starter and let them keep the job or Ortio steal it.  Gillies could stand to have a career season in the AHL before going to him.  That's probably at least 2 more years.

[phoenix66]

Brodeur was one of the best of all time and he was outplayed by his backup that season. Thomas was a late started and he tanked the year he got back.

There is an incredibly short list of goalies that succeeded at 38/39 and none of them all of a sudden rebounded after declining for 4 seasons. One only needs to look at history (including his history) to know how long the odds are that he is any sort of upgrade for next season.

How that is less of a risk then Elliot, Ramo, Kuemper, Reimer, Montoya, etc? It isn't even less of a risk then Ward, Howard, or Hiller. If your going for that level of a gamble it might as well be for a young unproven goalie (and no JJ I am not advocating that ).

If the Flames choose to target a temporary bridge to get them past the draft lottery there are plenty of better options then Backstrom.

I think people are missing what I believe his role can be. I'm not advocating he be signed and Played 70+ games next year. I'm saying he could be the perfect bridge..put in place to groom his successor.

Vets are important at every position to teach the kids and help them develop. Outside of the goalie coach our tenders have nobody.

So here you have a guy who's a pro,can run the net and give us a chance to win every night.They say Ortio has practice issues? They've raved about Backstrom in practice since he got here.let it rub off.

If the Flames don't believe Joni has what it takes to become a starter? Then he is the one who should be replaced. Replaced with a guy who can take over. I even think you'd see Ramo jack up his play next to Backstrom.

We wanna bring in a bona fide starter? Fine.. Let him take the job. We want to bring in a guy who's ready to become a starter? Fine..make him take the job

Schneider took the job from Brodeur.. Rask took the job from Thomas.Every top starter in this league Took the job from their successor.

Backstrom is a pro.he knows he's not playing another 4-5 years. He will teach..he will mentor.but above that he will lead by example.

I think if you trade for that #1 guy who you will give up the farm for.you will stunt the growth of the chain. How motivated is your backup when they know they can't take the job? Unless their goal is to play themselves to a new team which also hurts our system.

Backstrom I believe is an upgrade on anything currently in our system.i think Ramo has the skill but doesn't have the direction. Ortio needs to learn habits you can only learn from a mentor.

In just one game you saw it last night.the team was calm and trusted their goalie.

No I believe only good can come of it.if he gets passed and only plays 20 games next year Cuz #2 is playing over him,we win..if he has to hold the Fort longer cuz it's apparent we need a better successor,we win.

[darth_henning]

Backstrom had a good game. I'm glad. 

 

But to gamble on a tandem of him and Ortio next season would be suicide. (Or Him and any other unproven goalie if we don't like Ortio)

 

Ortio or any other unproven goalie is a risk. Because we don't know if they'll be able to develop into a starter, top out as a decent backup, or not even be able to do that competently. 

 

Backstrom's play was dropping off before he missed a year. He may still have good games left in him, he was an excellent goalie and I wouldn't be surprised. But very few in the NHL at any position make it in the league past 35, and goalies have the hardest minutes on them. 

 

If Ortio for example had two seasons of play like he's doing now under his belt, and could already be relied on for 20-30 games per year at a 91%+ then I'd be willing to give Backstrom a shot because Ortio would be a strong possibility to be able to step into a starter position if Backstrom faded

 

But we don't know if Ortio can manage that yet. His performance after call-up started out good to great, but has faded a little. Part of that is likely that he hasn't played in a year either. But even if he finishes the year strong he's an unknown for next season. 

 

It looks like he may be able to take on more of a load, but we don't know. And without some level of certainty we can't take that risk on BOTH goalies. Same reason we can't re-sign ramo either. 

 

We can take a risk on Ortio and whether he can develop into a starter (or backup or whatever), but we need one goalie who is a guaruntee to be able to play NHL games and win. Otherwise we de-rail the rebuid. 

[MAC331]

Backstrom had a good game. I'm glad. 

 

But to gamble on a tandem of him and Ortio next season would be suicide. (Or Him and any other unproven goalie if we don't like Ortio)

 

Ortio or any other unproven goalie is a risk. Because we don't know if they'll be able to develop into a starter, top out as a decent backup, or not even be able to do that competently. 

 

Backstrom's play was dropping off before he missed a year. He may still have good games left in him, he was an excellent goalie and I wouldn't be surprised. But very few in the NHL at any position make it in the league past 35, and goalies have the hardest minutes on them. 

 

If Ortio for example had two seasons of play like he's doing now under his belt, and could already be relied on for 20-30 games per year at a 91%+ then I'd be willing to give Backstrom a shot because Ortio would be a strong possibility to be able to step into a starter position if Backstrom faded

 

But we don't know if Ortio can manage that yet. His performance after call-up started out good to great, but has faded a little. Part of that is likely that he hasn't played in a year either. But even if he finishes the year strong he's an unknown for next season. 

 

It looks like he may be able to take on more of a load, but we don't know. And without some level of certainty we can't take that risk on BOTH goalies. Same reason we can't re-sign ramo either. 

 

We can take a risk on Ortio and whether he can develop into a starter (or backup or whatever), but we need one goalie who is a guaruntee to be able to play NHL games and win. Otherwise we de-rail the rebuid. 

I think he would make a great goalie coach, very fundamentally sound.

[phoenix66]

Backstrom had a good game. I'm glad. 

 

But to gamble on a tandem of him and Ortio next season would be suicide. (Or Him and any other unproven goalie if we don't like Ortio)

 

Ortio or any other unproven goalie is a risk. Because we don't know if they'll be able to develop into a starter, top out as a decent backup, or not even be able to do that competently. 

 

Backstrom's play was dropping off before he missed a year. He may still have good games left in him, he was an excellent goalie and I wouldn't be surprised. But very few in the NHL at any position make it in the league past 35, and goalies have the hardest minutes on them. 

 

If Ortio for example had two seasons of play like he's doing now under his belt, and could already be relied on for 20-30 games per year at a 91%+ then I'd be willing to give Backstrom a shot because Ortio would be a strong possibility to be able to step into a starter position if Backstrom faded

 

But we don't know if Ortio can manage that yet. His performance after call-up started out good to great, but has faded a little. Part of that is likely that he hasn't played in a year either. But even if he finishes the year strong he's an unknown for next season. 

 

It looks like he may be able to take on more of a load, but we don't know. And without some level of certainty we can't take that risk on BOTH goalies. Same reason we can't re-sign ramo either. 

 

We can take a risk on Ortio and whether he can develop into a starter (or backup or whatever), but we need one goalie who is a guaruntee to be able to play NHL games and win. Otherwise we de-rail the rebuid. 

 

 

In many ways i could not agree more. I'm just saying take the lesser of the gambles.

Bringing in a "proven" #1 guy.. is as much of a gamble.. they could tank here just as easily , you dont know how successful a goalie will be until hes i your system

we failed this year because we had no stability. Hiller played with a chip on his shoulder last year , he lost it this year . Ramo got a chip due to the demotion, perhaps even last year by not being the round 1 starter.. thing is , chips dont last .

 

You start with Backstrom / Ortio.. Ortio cant cut it?.. you replace Ortio. The #2 role is the guy you want to take over..

we failed in our goalie progression because nobody took the job from Kipper.. it was known and accepted it was his until he walked away..and when he did , we went and got 2 outside guys to battle each other.. like i put in my last post..somebody needs to take it

 

I would be much more confident next year with Backstrom and anybody .. wanna get Bishop?. fine.. but leave him some competition , and at worst , a mentor to move him.

I'm still a big proponent of getitng a 1B guy or a ready for the next step guy.. but to work, you cant hand the starter role to him .. he needs to take it.. why not take it from a guy whos willing to help you grab the torch? and sets the example

[Carty]

Backstrom was good tonight.   Not sure that change anything.   Hoping it doesn't.  But he was good.   Always liked the guy.

 

This I agree with. I hope he shuts out the Wild. It would be a great swan song.

 

Agreed...

 

He has a solid skill-set, and I would rather see Backstrom in the net than Hiller, but there is good reason to question the workload he could carry at 38/39 years old...   The risk going into the season with just Ortio (or anyone else currently in the system) and Backstrom could be huge...   and we have already seen the three headed goalie monster, and it was not a pretty sight...

 

Ramo is a question mark after his injury, Hiller should be gone and Ortio is still a possibility as a starter down the road, but still needs to work on a few things and prove he can be a stable back up first...   I also think that Ortio would benefit from having a better goalie coach and Sigalet should be let go...

 

The Flames need to bring in a better goalie, and they have already stated that was a priority...   It remains to be seen who might be made available...   Ortio might not even be in the picture for the Flames, if not, then they need to find two goalies...

 

If Backstrom was interested in being a goalie coach, I would hope that the Flames gave that some serious consideration...   Sigalet needs to be replaced, and I have no doubt that Backstrom would be an upgrade...

[kehatch]

In many ways i could not agree more. I'm just saying take the lesser of the gambles.

Bringing in a "proven" #1 guy.. is as much of a gamble.. they could tank here just as easily , you dont know how successful a goalie will be until hes i your system

we failed this year because we had no stability. Hiller played with a chip on his shoulder last year , he lost it this year . Ramo got a chip due to the demotion, perhaps even last year by not being the round 1 starter.. thing is , chips dont last .

You start with Backstrom / Ortio.. Ortio cant cut it?.. you replace Ortio. The #2 role is the guy you want to take over..

we failed in our goalie progression because nobody took the job from Kipper.. it was known and accepted it was his until he walked away..and when he did , we went and got 2 outside guys to battle each other.. like i put in my last post..somebody needs to take it

I would be much more confident next year with Backstrom and anybody .. wanna get Bishop?. fine.. but leave him some competition , and at worst , a mentor to move him.

I'm still a big proponent of getitng a 1B guy or a ready for the next step guy.. but to work, you cant hand the starter role to him .. he needs to take it.. why not take it from a guy whos willing to help you grab the torch? and sets the example

Your idea if wanting a veteran bridge goalie isn't flawed. It's a reasonable option. But your idea of giving that to a 38/39 year old goalie who was on a sharp decline before getting hurt then missing over a year based on (maybe) a couple of solid games is. It isn't Backstrom vs spending a bunch on Bishop. It's Backstrom vs a bunch of other guys with the same upside and much less risk.

It isn't even a discussion for the Flames. They took him in as a cap dump to make the Jones trade possible and are honouring the games they had to give him to waive the NYC.

[MAC331]

Your idea if wanting a veteran bridge goalie isn't flawed. It's a reasonable option. But your idea of giving that to a 38/39 year old goalie who was on a sharp decline before getting hurt then missing over a year based on (maybe) a couple of solid games is. It isn't Backstrom vs spending a bunch on Bishop. It's Backstrom vs a bunch of other guys with the same upside and much less risk.

It isn't even a discussion for the Flames. They took him in as a cap dump to make the Jones trade possible and are honouring the games they had to give him to waive the NYC.

BT has already said the net will go out far and wide to get the goalie situation improved for next season. This may include Ortio and it may not, business wise they have maintain their control of him as an asset. The offseason decision could be to go with 2 different goaltenders from outside the organization.

[kehatch]

BT has already said the net will go out far and wide to get the goalie situation improved for next season. This may include Ortio and it may not, business wise they have maintain their control of him as an asset. The offseason decision could be to go with 2 different goaltenders from outside the organization.

 

I think the Flames are keeping an open mind and investigating every option. Once they are all laid out they will make a decision.  I agre that it is very conceivable that we end up with two entirely new goalies in the end.  

[travel_dude]

BT has already said the net will go out far and wide to get the goalie situation improved for next season. This may include Ortio and it may not, business wise they have maintain their control of him as an asset. The offseason decision could be to go with 2 different goaltenders from outside the organization.

If you sign 2 other goalies plus retain control of Ortio, then you have to expose him to the waiver.  Last year was easy because he sucked.  If he continues to show what he has in the last number of games, then he should be given a contract.  As a backup.  No point then of looking for more than a #1 for CGY.  If he falters, then you have an interesting problem.  Let him walk for nothing?  Sign and trade him for peanuts?  Sign him and waive/demote him?

 

I prefer the sign Ortio to be a backup and look for a NHL starter.  Use some of the prospect depth for the trade that won't realistically get much of a chance at the NHL level.  The UFA list doesn't impress me so much.  I think a trade is likely.  

[kehatch]

If you sign 2 other goalies plus retain control of Ortio, then you have to expose him to the waiver.  Last year was easy because he sucked.  If he continues to show what he has in the last number of games, then he should be given a contract.  As a backup.  No point then of looking for more than a #1 for CGY.  If he falters, then you have an interesting problem.  Let him walk for nothing?  Sign and trade him for peanuts?  Sign him and waive/demote him?

 

I prefer the sign Ortio to be a backup and look for a NHL starter.  Use some of the prospect depth for the trade that won't realistically get much of a chance at the NHL level.  The UFA list doesn't impress me so much.  I think a trade is likely.  

 

That depends on who the other young goalie is.  If the Flames don't have a lot of faith in Ortio as a future starter then it is very possible they move on from him this summer. 

[MAC331]

If you sign 2 other goalies plus retain control of Ortio, then you have to expose him to the waiver.  Last year was easy because he sucked.  If he continues to show what he has in the last number of games, then he should be given a contract.  As a backup.  No point then of looking for more than a #1 for CGY.  If he falters, then you have an interesting problem.  Let him walk for nothing?  Sign and trade him for peanuts?  Sign him and waive/demote him?

 

I prefer the sign Ortio to be a backup and look for a NHL starter.  Use some of the prospect depth for the trade that won't realistically get much of a chance at the NHL level.  The UFA list doesn't impress me so much.  I think a trade is likely.  

Agree the situation could go a number of ways. I would contract Ortio as one of the two. My other choice would be to trade for Elliott from STL maybe we could unload a few not in the go forward plan.