Carty Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 It's time to move on from Hiller. The game has passed him by. There is no benefit to play him. Nada. He's not going to go on a 20 game winning streak. He's not going to be a Flame come July 1st. He doesn't inspire confidence in the other players. He puts the Flames in a hole every game he plays. It's like playing baseball with the kid that drops every ball that comes to him. You want to give him a chance, but he keeps letting the team down. Exactly... Hiller has become the Flames "Charlie Brown"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 It's time to move on from Hiller. The game has passed him by. There is no benefit to play him. Nada. He's not going to go on a 20 game winning streak. He's not going to be a Flame come July 1st. He doesn't inspire confidence in the other players. He puts the Flames in a hole every game he plays. It's like playing baseball with the kid that drops every ball that comes to him. You want to give him a chance, but he keeps letting the team down. I think that's too far. I would say mediocre is a better description. I still think he's a starter on a bad team and a backup on a good one. So he had a bad game. The game before, he was great, and everyone on here loved him. this has to be one of the most up-and-down, emotional threads on the forum. We're rebuilding. That's why I think we should be looking at our younger goaltenders. And at the end of the day....we're not even talking about our biggest problem...defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 lol.....agreed. Except....I would give him more than a 2nd. And, it'll probably take more than a 2nd. Just saying. True, nobody's going to give a goalie 15 bad games in a row. There have to be some good ones, and overall improvement to boot. Truth lies somewhere inbetween imho. I just don't know how playing a goalie that plays 2 bad games in a row is any benefit. 5 GA for two games in a row is no cause to go back to that goalie, unless there was no team in front of him, or the game was back and forth. Saying that, I actually prefer his style over Hiller's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I think this is making excuses for HIller. Cold or not, there is no excuse for Hillers plays right now becuase its beyond terrible. He is not even playing an the calibre of an NHL goalie right now and there are plenty of NHL goalies that can sit for weeks at a time and stil play OK, clearly HIller is not one of them. If your point were true he should be getting better game after game and he is not. I would argue that he has shown zero improvement since the Pheonix game, its not a games played its a fact that Hiller is no longer an NHL goalie thing. I agree its not going to help them make the playoffs that ship has sailed but I also don't want the young kids having to play in front of terrible goaltending. Get to the point where you feel you can never make a mistake becuae it will wind up in your net and that IMO is dangerous from a development standpoint. I don't like Ortio either, but I agree they should no give him his 5 games or so and se what he can do. Really no value in playing HIller anymore. I agree with all of the above, but would point out that the best goalie in the league still has a few "AHL" caliber games from time to time. We are evaluating them game-to-game, but that's really not proper goaltender evaluation. Just saying. I'm not going to go out of my way to defend Hiller. Frankly, I want to see Ortio play. But I am worried when I see the harsh over-reaction to Hiller, that we are not ready to have patience for an actual prospect. Because...frankly, we never have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I think that's too far. I would say mediocre is a better description. I still think he's a starter on a bad team and a backup on a good one. So he had a bad game. The game before, he was great, and everyone on here loved him. this has to be one of the most up-and-down, emotional threads on the forum. We're rebuilding. That's why I think we should be looking at our younger goaltenders. And at the end of the day....we're not even talking about our biggest problem...defence. No our biggest problem is Goaltending. The problem is Hiller is literally, the worst Goalie in the NHL. That's what the statistics say and he sure looks like it when watching him play. The Flames need at the very least, a warm body at the TDL so they can stop playing Hiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I think that's too far. I would say mediocre is a better description. I still think he's a starter on a bad team and a backup on a good one. So he had a bad game. The game before, he was great, and everyone on here loved him. this has to be one of the most up-and-down, emotional threads on the forum. We're rebuilding. That's why I think we should be looking at our younger goaltenders. And at the end of the day....we're not even talking about our biggest problem...defence. Is it team defence or the defence you are referring to? I think goaltending is probably the biggest problem but team defence adds to it. So I agree with you and it just proves the point that we still have major holes in the rebuild. Are we ahead of schedule on the build? I think that making the playoffs last year has some of us thinking that we are a perennial playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketdoctor Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 We're rebuilding. That's why I think we should be looking at our younger goaltenders. What younger goalies would that be then? Gillies - injurend MacDonald - CHL Schenider - CHL and none of those are going to be with the big club next season and probably not until 18/19. Poulin perhaps? Ortio has obviously been shelved by the Flames. Not sure he would want to resign anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 No our biggest problem is Goaltending. The problem is Hiller is literally, the worst Goalie in the NHL. That's what the statistics say and he sure looks like it when watching him play. The Flames need at the very least, a warm body at the TDL so they can stop playing Hiller. Why would we trade for a warm body to stop playing Hiller? There is no point giving up assets for this year. The few assets we have need to be used for longer term help. We should stop playing Hiller and give Ortio a run. He might even show he's worth an extension which would at least mean we have one goalie next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I agree with all of the above, but would point out that the best goalie in the league still has a few "AHL" caliber games from time to time. We are evaluating them game-to-game, but that's really not proper goaltender evaluation. Just saying. I'm not going to go out of my way to defend Hiller. Frankly, I want to see Ortio play. But I am worried when I see the harsh over-reaction to Hiller, that we are not ready to have patience for an actual prospect. Because...frankly, we never have. I get where you are gonig but I don't think this an over reaction at all. HIller has been trending down since about November last year. I thought HIller was great early last year and then ever since then he's been good, to ok, to bad so really I view this year as an extension of last year. Its not like Hiller's play suddenly fell off a cliff. Yes, every goalie has some AHL games in them but when they start to vastely outnumber the amount of NHL calibre games that becomes the new trend. HIller has had very few games this season where I would suggest he has been an NHL calibre goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I think that's too far. I would say mediocre is a better description. I still think he's a starter on a bad team and a backup on a good one. So he had a bad game. The game before, he was great, and everyone on here loved him. this has to be one of the most up-and-down, emotional threads on the forum. We're rebuilding. That's why I think we should be looking at our younger goaltenders. And at the end of the day....we're not even talking about our biggest problem...defence. He's been less than mediocre the entire season. Mediocre is not good for one game and very bad for ten. Brodie and Gio make as many mistakes as Hamilton. Engelland makes mistakes but plays well for most of the game. Nak and Spoon both make mistakes, but play solid otherwise. Defense is not the issue. Coaching players to use the block instead of effectively smothering a player is an issue. Coaching players to make weak clearing attempts instead of a simple lob out of the zone is an issue. But counting on a goalie that is less than 0.900 even strength is even bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Why would we trade for a warm body to stop playing Hiller? There is no point giving up assets for this year. The few assets we have need to be used for longer term help. We should stop playing Hiller and give Ortio a run. He might even show he's worth an extension which would at least mean we have one goalie next year I'm not keen on giving up assets either so maybe a minor league swap of some kind. I think they only have 3 goalies right now between the Flames and Heat. If there's an injury or two.... Anyway I have to believe they'll add somebody to the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 If Hiller gets the start tomorrow and craps the crease again, Hartley's judgement has to be called into question... If Hartley is dead set against playing Ortio, I would rather see them call up Poulin than give Hiller the start tomorrow... Give Ortio the start Bob... It's time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Why would we trade for a warm body to stop playing Hiller? There is no point giving up assets for this year. The few assets we have need to be used for longer term help. We should stop playing Hiller and give Ortio a run. He might even show he's worth an extension which would at least mean we have one goalie next year I assume it would be for a long term fix like a prospect ready for the jump or a goalie around Ramo's age, like Pavelec or Reimer. They'd be someone to play 3-4 years. I think if done right 4 years is when we go deeper in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 What younger goalies would that be then? Gillies - injurend MacDonald - CHL Schenider - CHL and none of those are going to be with the big club next season and probably not until 18/19. Poulin perhaps? Ortio has obviously been shelved by the Flames. Not sure he would want to resign anyways. http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Baertschi+finds+swagger+scoring+touch+with+Canucks/11731854/story.html http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/brossoit-aces-his-starting-test-but-talbot-is-the-no-1 Maybe we need to re-think our strategy of shelving prospects that the coach doesn't like until their value has gone down to nothing? And then giving them to our rivals? Maybe, at the start of the year, the GM should ask the coach: Who don't you like? Who do you figure you're going to shelve all year? So, we can trade those prospects while they're still worth Something. But until that happens, I think we have to play Ortio. Like most people on this forum.... We're achieving an Extremely Rare concensus on playing Ortio, lol. That says something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 If Hiller gets the start tomorrow and craps the crease again, Hartley's judgement has to be called into question... If Hartley is dead set against playing Ortio, I would rather see them call up Poulin than give Hiller the start tomorrow... Give Ortio the start Bob... It's time... We need to showcase Hiller for a trade. He needs to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 We need to showcase Hiller for a trade. He needs to play. You just want the tank to go full on. Which is more important to you - getting a marginal return (if at all) for Hiller or possibly finding your backup for next season, who will lose for nothing in the summer if you don't play him? At worst, Ortio plays as bad as Hiller and you "win" the lotto sweeps. At best, he gets you solid play and you know you have something for next year. I don't think it really matters. We will be playing teams trying to solidify their playoff spots. Neither Hiller nor Ortio is going to "hurt" our drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I think at this point I have a hard time seeing how you are going to change the value of Jonus Hiller in a week. He is a veteran, he's been around the league and teams have seen him play mor than enough recently to know where he is in regards to his game. If a team wants to acquire him I think they have already decided that and decided how much they are willing to give up to get him and I don't think that changes a week out from the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 You just want the tank to go full on. Which is more important to you - getting a marginal return (if at all) for Hiller or possibly finding your backup for next season, who will lose for nothing in the summer if you don't play him? At worst, Ortio plays as bad as Hiller and you "win" the lotto sweeps. At best, he gets you solid play and you know you have something for next year. I don't think it really matters. We will be playing teams trying to solidify their playoff spots. Neither Hiller nor Ortio is going to "hurt" our drafting. There's only 3 games left before the TDL. Start Hiller in all 3 of them. After that, start Ortio the rest of the way either by sitting Hiller as the back-up or because he's already traded. We can still use the rest of the season to start Ortio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 There's only 3 games left before the TDL. Start Hiller in all 3 of them. After that, start Ortio the rest of the way either by sitting Hiller as the back-up or because he's already traded. We can still use the rest of the season to start Ortio. There's as much risk as reward. Hiller gets injured; Poulin comes up. Hiller plays like the crap goalie he is; no interest out there. Hiller plays lights out; isn't traded because he hasn't done that all season. If you start Ortio now, if he is injured you at least have a NHL goalie to fall back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krule Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 There's only 3 games left before the TDL. Start Hiller in all 3 of them. After that, start Ortio the rest of the way either by sitting Hiller as the back-up or because he's already traded. We can still use the rest of the season to start Ortio. I agree. Start him in all games before the deadline and let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully someone will take him off our hands in a deal. Then, let the Flames use the rest of the season to evaluate Ortio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Hindsight, but Brossoit has been playing pretty well... Whoops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 LOL I think when Hiller came in for the injured Ramo he proved beyond a doubt he is a great back up goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 There's only 3 games left before the TDL. Start Hiller in all 3 of them. After that, start Ortio the rest of the way either by sitting Hiller as the back-up or because he's already traded. We can still use the rest of the season to start Ortio. With the way he is playing he will provide a better impression from the bench then from the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 We need to showcase Hiller for a trade. He needs to play. You wouldn't be saying that just for the purpose of the tank would you Peeps?... ... ... ... I honestly think that Hiller could be put on waivers before the TDL with no takers... I would also rather the Flames gave Hiller away and put this guy in net than see Hiller as the starter again tomorrow... - He has better lateral movement in the net. - He covers the upper half of the net better. - He has faster reflexes. - He's inflatable and would have saved the team $4.5 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 LOL I think when Hiller came in for the injured Ramo he proved beyond a doubt he is a great back up goalie. He played solid and stopped 7 shots cold. You are right, that is what you want of a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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