Goaltending

[conundrumed]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

An interesting footnote from the KHL.

Best goalie of the week - Joni Ortio earned three victories and one shutout (his first in the KHL) with a save percentage of 98,04 as well as averaging 0.67 goals against. 

 

Anyone remember him?

 

Look at you leaving breadcrumb implications.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Look at you leaving breadcrumb implications.

 

Just read this tidbit this morning and though about his short lived career with the organization.

Was never really sure of what he was.

Never really found out.

[CheersMan]

43 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Thanks Mrs Sigalet.

I entirely disagree.

Rittich's mechanics are obvious. You don't get that base, all of a sudden, at 24.

The goaltending philosophy and coaching has been an atrocity.

But I'm sure you have examples to show me how it hasn't been both an albatross and a joke.

Good luck.

Your welcome son.

Never said Rittich got the mechanics all of a sudden, said the opposite in fact with 2.5yrs of mentorship and training within the organization.

Not every draft pick plays in the NHL. You tell me which goalies this organization handled poorly, then let get away only to move on to have long and successful NHL careers elsewhere then I will show you an atrocity.  

[travel_dude]

I was also thinking about what the present talent would look like in front of a elite or close to elite goalie.

Unstopable?

 

Build from the net out, but skip the goalie and look for bargains.

I get not trading Tkachuk for MAF.

We couldn;t seem to land Bishop either time.

Elites rarely end up on the market.

 

We've traded away a lot of good picks for D-men, but wasted a lot of picks and one prospect on goalies.

What do we have to show for it?

A FA playing better than the guy we traded a pick and a prospect for 3 moths of a great Smith and the rest a bad Smith.

Elliott for Kyrou.  Didn;t last past the playoffs.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Just now, travel_dude said:

I was also thinking about what the present talent would look like in front of a elite or close to elite goalie.

Unstopable?

 

Build from the net out, but skip the goalie and look for bargains.

I get not trading Tkachuk for MAF.

We couldn;t seem to land Bishop either time.

Elites rarely end up on the market.

 

We've traded away a lot of good picks for D-men, but wasted a lot of picks and one prospect on goalies.

What do we have to show for it?

A FA playing better than the guy we traded a pick and a prospect for 3 moths of a great Smith and the rest a bad Smith.

Elliott for Kyrou.  Didn;t last past the playoffs.

 

Would you have any interest in Crawford, say for a 1st, roster player and prospect is what it would likely cost ? I get there are injury concerns, but his play this year is because he plays for a horrible team

 

Rask might also be available in the summer, but I personally am not a huge Rask fan

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Would you have any interest in Crawford, say for a 1st, roster player and prospect is what it would likely cost ? I get there are injury concerns, but his play this year is because he plays for a horrible team

 

Rask might also be available in the summer, but I personally am not a huge Rask fan

 

Not a Crwford fan I guess.

Never felt he was any better than Niemi, but that's just me.

[robrob74]

12 hours ago, CheersMan said:

If Gillis was gifted the keys to the A then it was because Rittich out played him, leaving him behind on his way to the Bigs.

Rittich did not arrive here 2.5 yrs ago the goalie that he is today, far from it, otherwise he would’ve shown it well before now. I’ve seen a huge improvement in his play since he arrived with this Org. If I remember correctly over the past couple of seasons, Rittich had issues with his edges, meaning not being able to stay in position between the posts, but rather sliding to far out of position. I also remember this non-existent puck handling skill, handled the puck like a grenade.

We all like Rittich (right now) but please throw some water on your “Rittich vs the World” theory because he had a ton of help from Smith and Sigalet along the way, lets give the Org a little credit.

Sigalet takes it on the chin for all the goaltenders that have failed, but when one does make it (Rittich) he takes it on the chin too, LOL.

It’s now Rittich’s time, lets see what he can do.

 

I do give the organization credit for scouting him and playing him in the A. But he has shown he won the job over Gillies the moment he arrived in the A. I was irritated by it because I was worried they were allowing the wrong goalie to develop as Gillies was supposed to be “the next one” for the Flames. That was until I saw him play a few times.

 

like conundrumed said, the mechanics were there. What I think was missing was consistency. 

 

Give the organization credit by helping him work through his consistency issues and believing in him by not going out to look for another goalie. 

[robrob74]

11 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Would you have any interest in Crawford, say for a 1st, roster player and prospect is what it would likely cost ? I get there are injury concerns, but his play this year is because he plays for a horrible team

 

Rask might also be available in the summer, but I personally am not a huge Rask fan

 

Mid the salary was right perhaps. I differ from Travel as Niemi at his best allowed them to win in spite of him, which was why they moved on. Crawford at his best puts up an elite performance. Good Crawford is really good and better than any goalies we’ve had since Kipper. I think he is a good goalie that was on an elite team.

[Thebrewcrew]

42 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Mid the salary was right perhaps. I differ from Travel as Niemi at his best allowed them to win in spite of him, which was why they moved on. Crawford at his best puts up an elite performance. Good Crawford is really good and better than any goalies we’ve had since Kipper. I think he is a good goalie that was on an elite team.

Age with Crawford is what scares me most, only a couple years younger than Smith. Awesome goalie just not a long term solution, which around here would be 3+years.

 

I would give up a boatload for Holtby, but can’t see WSH moving him

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So true Carty, and when you're battling another goalie for starts, you're definitely convincing yourself, "it's not that bad".

Rittich, imho, has been poorly developed since he got with the org. Good thing he was developed well before us.

Gillies was gifted the keys in the A, Rittich played well, never mattered. Backs up Smith last year, played well, didn't matter.

So when Smith went down, we had never handed any keys to Rittich ever, then it gets sprung on him.

Imho, the whole affair was just poor mgmt of him. I honestly credit Rittich this year for taking it on himself that the keys may get handed to him again, and this time, he'll be ready.

 

One concern I have with Smith, is it an injury or his confidence?

He said maybe a month ago, "I've talked to the coaches, family, friends about my struggles" to paraphrase.

We don't need to ride Smith until he fails. But it looks like we were starting to do that after a couple of good wins.

I'm growing more on fire everyday with our goalie coaching.

It's pathetic. Rittich brought all the science, but didn't play much. Gillies is falling through the cracks, Smith pretty much said he's struggling with the mental aspect.

Yet we seem to give him support as, Mike Smith: Legend. Rather than, Mike Smith: Person and Goalie.

Maybe Mason MacDonald would've turned into a goalie elsewhere. Parsons?

 

BT's shortcoming will always be understanding goaltending. So swallow your pride and damn well hire someone that understands it.

Sigalet should change professions and build a peaceable kingdom teaching yoga.

Are we even trying to help our prospect goalies? Because this is extremely suspicious.

 

Gillies recalled from the AHL.  Hope Parsons is ready to play there.

Lomberg re-assigned, even though they have one free roster spot.

 

Gillies may or may not get a start this weekend.  They could give Rittich the start in the B2B ganmes, if the Minny rematch is low event, but it makes more sense to have Gillies step in for one of the two.  Next week is a busy week with 3 games and just single days off between.  

 

If the intent is to play him in the B2B, which makes more sense?  The Minny game will be a tough rematch, but the Flames will be fresh.  The STL games has an up-and-down team, but the Flames will be a little tired.  No extra forwards to slot in at this moment.  They might be bringing up a player to replace Lomberg.  

[Kiweh]

38 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gillies recalled from the AHL.  Hope Parsons is ready to play there.

Lomberg re-assigned, even though they have one free roster spot.

 

Gillies may or may not get a start this weekend.  They could give Rittich the start in the B2B ganmes, if the Minny rematch is low event, but it makes more sense to have Gillies step in for one of the two.  Next week is a busy week with 3 games and just single days off between.  

 

If the intent is to play him in the B2B, which makes more sense?  The Minny game will be a tough rematch, but the Flames will be fresh.  The STL games has an up-and-down team, but the Flames will be a little tired.  No extra forwards to slot in at this moment.  They might be bringing up a player to replace Lomberg.  

 

 

Sounds like Backlund might be ready to return soon (currently skating as an extra).. Frolik also skating in a regular practice jersey with the goalies prior to the main group coming on for practice.

 

[robrob74]

14 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

 

You were talking about the Flames’ development system for Rittich. 

 

One thing i am I am not a fan of is the win and you’re in (if you’re trying to develop a starter). I get you want a goalie to run with it, but I think there are mind games that enter when you worry if you make a mistake that you don’t get another start. That’s on top of getting them into game shape to play a starter’s workload.

 

we drafted one really good Stanley cup goalie in the past 25-30 years. He won the cup with Anaheim. That is a horrible track record for developing our own.

[cross16]

14 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I was also thinking about what the present talent would look like in front of a elite or close to elite goalie.

Unstopable?

 

 

 

Hard to say because what is the salary of said elite goalie. If you paying the 7million price tag for what an elite goalie typically cost that's going to impact the team in front of you.

 

I personally don't think the Flames need an elite talent. They are a really good team, but under the aggressive system Peters played I think what you need is a goalie who can make the big stops. The volume isn't going to be there and they aren't going to need to be super athletic, but you need some who can confidently stop the breakways etc chances they give up. Part of the reason Rittich I think has been such a better fit than Smith this year is he seems to be that guy, whereas I thikn Smith is a better goalie when he gets lots of volume. 

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

You were talking about the Flames’ development system for Rittich. 

 

One thing i am I am not a fan of is the win and you’re in (if you’re trying to develop a starter). I get you want a goalie to run with it, but I think there are mind games that enter when you worry if you make a mistake that you don’t get another start. That’s on top of getting them into game shape to play a starter’s workload.

 

we drafted one really good Stanley cup goalie in the past 25-30 years. He won the cup with Anaheim. That is a horrible track record for developing our own.

 

JS Giguere, whom I believe you are referring to, was actually a Hartford draft pick. Flames acquired him in the Roberts trade. 

 

The best Flames draft pick, from a goalie perspective, in the last 30 years is Craig Anderson and they never ended up signing him. 

[Cowtownguy]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Hard to say because what is the salary of said elite goalie. If you paying the 7million price tag for what an elite goalie typically cost that's going to impact the team in front of you.

 

I personally don't think the Flames need an elite talent. They are a really good team, but under the aggressive system Peters played I think what you need is a goalie who can make the big stops. The volume isn't going to be there and they aren't going to need to be super athletic, but you need some who can confidently stop the breakways etc chances they give up. Part of the reason Rittich I think has been such a better fit than Smith this year is he seems to be that guy, whereas I thikn Smith is a better goalie when he gets lots of volume. 

 

JS Giguere, whom I believe you are referring to, was actually a Hartford draft pick. Flames acquired him in the Roberts trade. 

 

The best Flames draft pick, from a goalie perspective, in the last 30 years is Craig Anderson and they never ended up signing him. 

I thought that he was referring to Giguere. I thought that we drafted him too. Kidd was our last decent goalie we developed?

[cross16]

1 minute ago, Cowtownguy said:

I thought that he was referring to Giguere. I thought that we drafted him too. Kidd was our last decent goalie we developed?

 

No love for Curtis Mcelhinney?

 

Joking aside, yes you are right. 

[robrob74]

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Hard to say because what is the salary of said elite goalie. If you paying the 7million price tag for what an elite goalie typically cost that's going to impact the team in front of you.

 

I personally don't think the Flames need an elite talent. They are a really good team, but under the aggressive system Peters played I think what you need is a goalie who can make the big stops. The volume isn't going to be there and they aren't going to need to be super athletic, but you need some who can confidently stop the breakways etc chances they give up. Part of the reason Rittich I think has been such a better fit than Smith this year is he seems to be that guy, whereas I thikn Smith is a better goalie when he gets lots of volume. 

 

JS Giguere, whom I believe you are referring to, was actually a Hartford draft pick. Flames acquired him in the Roberts trade. 

 

The best Flames draft pick, from a goalie perspective, in the last 30 years is Craig Anderson and they never ended up signing him. 

 

So basically what you’re saying is we are very good at determining what we have in net? Great at seeing talented tenders. Sarcasm. 

 

I remember havinh Anderson but forget all the time as well. A shame. 

[cross16]

Apologies if someone has this somewhere, but Gillies was officially recalled. 

 

However, Peters also said this...

 

 

[Fins&FIre15]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Apologies if someone has this somewhere, but Gillies was officially recalled. 

 

However, Peters also said this...

 

 

 

Wonder if its just an illness?

 

He also had his hand taped a few games ago, so maybe its a minor finger sprain or something. Either way, I don't have a lot of faith in Gillies yet, so that's good news.

[tmac70]

I agree our tending has been soft some games, however, IMHO if we got better defensively like we can our goalies would only have to be average.

[CheersMan]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

You were talking about the Flames’ development system for Rittich. 

 

One thing i am I am not a fan of is the win and you’re in (if you’re trying to develop a starter). I get you want a goalie to run with it, but I think there are mind games that enter when you worry if you make a mistake that you don’t get another start. That’s on top of getting them into game shape to play a starter’s workload.

 

we drafted one really good Stanley cup goalie in the past 25-30 years. He won the cup with Anaheim. That is a horrible track record for developing our own.

Here is an interesting stat for you. Since we won the Cup back in 89 (29 yrs ago) there have been only 11 goaltenders that have won a Cup with the team that drafted them. We had one of them so maybe we have not been that bad.

 

Holtby

Murray

Crawford

Quick

Fleury

Osgood

Ward

Brodeur

Richter

Roy

Vernon

 

There are even less goaltenders if you look further back.

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I agree our tending has been soft some games, however, IMHO if we got better defensively like we can our goalies would only have to be average.

 

Flames are (all at 5 on 5):

5th best in shots against/60

3rd best in Fenwick against/60

2nd best in Corsi Against/60

10th best in Scoring Changes against/60 (2nd best in the league in this category since the Pens game)

22nd in High Danger Scoring Changes against/60 (6th best in the league in this category since the Pens game)

They are 15th in Save percentage. 

 

What your asking for has already happened and we are seeing those results. Currently the Flames only get average goaltending and still are a top team. I think the better question would be what could this team do if they got better than avg goaltending on a consistent basis. 

[robrob74]

52 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Here is an interesting stat for you. Since we won the Cup back in 89 (29 yrs ago) there have been only 11 goaltenders that have won a Cup with the team that drafted them. We had one of them so maybe we have not been that bad.

 

Holtby

Murray

Crawford

Quick

Fleury

Osgood

Ward

Brodeur

Richter

Roy

Vernon

 

There are even less goaltenders if you look further back.

 

Thats Spooky, but I think Niemi needs to be added. 12 is still a really low number.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Hard to say because what is the salary of said elite goalie. If you paying the 7million price tag for what an elite goalie typically cost that's going to impact the team in front of you.

 

I personally don't think the Flames need an elite talent. They are a really good team, but under the aggressive system Peters played I think what you need is a goalie who can make the big stops. The volume isn't going to be there and they aren't going to need to be super athletic, but you need some who can confidently stop the breakways etc chances they give up. Part of the reason Rittich I think has been such a better fit than Smith this year is he seems to be that guy, whereas I thikn Smith is a better goalie when he gets lots of volume. 

 

JS Giguere, whom I believe you are referring to, was actually a Hartford draft pick. Flames acquired him in the Roberts trade. 

 

The best Flames draft pick, from a goalie perspective, in the last 30 years is Craig Anderson and they never ended up signing him. 

 

Maybe elite was a bit strong.

We've had average goaltending over the last two years.  If we had Andersen last season (not elite but very good) the cost difference was less than 1/2 a million.

 

I like Rittich and have more confidence in him this year.  He was not handed a good situation last year.  He seems more consistent this year to boot.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Apologies if someone has this somewhere, but Gillies was officially recalled. 

 

However, Peters also said this...

 

 

 

Some other related news.

Backlund was skating as an extra D today and said he expects to play soon, probably on the 3 game roadie.

Lomberg was sent down because they don;t have available cap to carry him and Prout and Gillies.

[travel_dude]

Some of the comments from BP on the Smith situation were strange.

Expects him to play on the 3 game road trip.

Nothing serious, just some maintenance.

 

If the 2nd period of the Flyers game was due to a little maintenance needed, then I don;t know what to say.

He played through something that didn;t feel right.

His last goal aganst was putrid.

Either be 100% or don't play buddy.

You're hurting the team by not talking about it.

 

Frankly, I want them to go with RIttich until Christmas.

Give the start to Gillies on the B2B.

Come back 100% in January.