Goaltending

[MAC331]

14 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

If the players went full rocket and got injured, I suspect that a lot of Flames fans would be seriously choked. Having said that, we managed a SO in the first game and were really only down one goal in the second game against a very good team. The games mean absolutely nothing. Being upset at Hamonic after two games is analogous to saying we should just trade James Neal because he hasn't scored yet and likely won't score much this year. Maybe we can trade him if we retain 1/2 of his salary.

Did I say I was upset, all I said was I didn't like what I saw with his reactionary movement on defensive situations. I fully understand all these guys are working their way into game shape. I played high level sports and know everyone has their own pace. When it comes to Hamonic he had the same issues last season and has to be better if we want a better team this season.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Then Give Him the Proper Time To do So we Already know what he Needs to do You Have Beaten that horse to death already

[DirtyDeeds]

On 9/21/2018 at 8:51 AM, MAC331 said:

Given his poor play last season there will be a lot of eyes on Hamonic this season. He needs to get his act together and if not change needs to take place.

Any poor play is subjective.. he had Brodie as an anchor partner holding him back.

[robrob74]

13 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Any poor play is subjective.. he had Brodie as an anchor partner holding him back.

 

Yeah, I think they had a few odd man rushes against last year where he was the lone guy back. But for a lot, he is expected to stop those.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yeah, I think they had a few odd man rushes against last year where he was the lone guy back. But for a lot, he is expected to stop those.

I like Hamonic, just hope cross is wrong about him being permanently damaged goods.

[robrob74]

37 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I like Hamonic, just hope cross is wrong about him being permanently damaged goods.

 

Me too. 

It's hard to say.  E. Karlsson was supposed to be questionable after his ankle was sliced up. Toronto's O'Reilly had knee surgery before he even entered the NHL. Never can tell how injuries will affect a player. Could it be mind as well?

 

I think it goes with goaltending as well. Because how well the D plays in front of the tenders, I think, directly affects their play. When goalies let in bad goals it's on them, but the odd mans are a split between them and the D. 

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Any poor play is subjective.. he had Brodie as an anchor partner holding him back.

 

It's funny how some players evoke such criticism.

Hamilton had a terrible 1st year, but was paired eventually with Gio.

Many hated his defensive game, while other praised it.

The trade was panned by some because we missed out on Barzal.

 

Bennett has one good season mostly playing with Backlund and/or Frolic.

Other years has played with less skill; Granlund, Janko, Hathaway, Brouwer, Lazar.

Some give him slack, while other are almost writing him off.

2 coaches are blamed for his usage.

 

Hamonic has an had season in NY, plays 49 games.

Comes to CGY and is paired with Brodie, who is playing on a side he doesn't prefer.

Hamonic has a bad season, but the pair was a disaster.

The trade was panned by some because we gave up a lotto pick and other picks.

Some think he is garbage, while other are "wait and see". 

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's funny how some players evoke such criticism.

Hamilton had a terrible 1st year, but was paired eventually with Gio.

Many hated his defensive game, while other praised it.

The trade was panned by some because we missed out on Barzal.

 

Bennett has one good season mostly playing with Backlund and/or Frolic.

Other years has played with less skill; Granlund, Janko, Hathaway, Brouwer, Lazar.

Some give him slack, while other are almost writing him off.

2 coaches are blamed for his usage.

 

Hamonic has an had season in NY, plays 49 games.

Comes to CGY and is paired with Brodie, who is playing on a side he doesn't prefer.

Hamonic has a bad season, but the pair was a disaster.

The trade was panned by some because we gave up a lotto pick and other picks.

Some think he is garbage, while other are "wait and see". 

 

That's where our own bias comes in. I mean, I hated Hamilton. One would say, "why? He scored points." It was the trade at the time, on top of him being too soft. I hate when guys shy away from an obvious hit opportunity. It doesn't allow the other player to know you're there. I guess there's puck pursuit, but I feel if you're not getting a body on, the players are so good in the NHL that it's easy enough to keep the play going. I just found him soft. 

 

But with Hamonic, for some reason, even though I hated the trade, I am still willing to give him the time to get back into his game. Maybe it's the way he plays? Seeing that he's the only defender we have that seems to care about our goalies, probably helps his case for me. 

 

I don't think we need to fight or be a bruising team. But I want a team that finishes checks. It says we have some of the most hits in the league, so I guess that I seem to be wrong.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

That's where our own bias comes in. I mean, I hated Hamilton. One would say, "why? He scored points." It was the trade at the time, on top of him being too soft. I hate when guys shy away from an obvious hit opportunity. It doesn't allow the other player to know you're there. I guess there's puck pursuit, but I feel if you're not getting a body on, the players are so good in the NHL that it's easy enough to keep the play going. I just found him soft. 

 

But with Hamonic, for some reason, even though I hated the trade, I am still willing to give him the time to get back into his game. Maybe it's the way he plays? Seeing that he's the only defender we have that seems to care about our goalies, probably helps his case for me. 

 

I don't think we need to fight or be a bruising team. But I want a team that finishes checks. It says we have some of the most hits in the league, so I guess that I seem to be wrong.

 

If it isn;t obvious, I'll say it.

I like Hamonic.  I think he got the gears for playing a steady game on an unsteady pair.

Could he have been better at decision making or better breakouts?  Sure.

Did Smith take away some of his time to make better passes?  Sure.

 

I think playing with Hanifin will help him.  A younger guy with smarts that can skate.  Can defend.  

Let them build some chemistry.  He's not going to score a ton, but he does have a heavy shot.  Lot's of opportunity for deflections.

[Cowtownguy]

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

That's where our own bias comes in. I mean, I hated Hamilton. One would say, "why? He scored points." It was the trade at the time, on top of him being too soft. I hate when guys shy away from an obvious hit opportunity. It doesn't allow the other player to know you're there. I guess there's puck pursuit, but I feel if you're not getting a body on, the players are so good in the NHL that it's easy enough to keep the play going. I just found him soft. 

 

But with Hamonic, for some reason, even though I hated the trade, I am still willing to give him the time to get back into his game. Maybe it's the way he plays? Seeing that he's the only defender we have that seems to care about our goalies, probably helps his case for me. 

 

I don't think we need to fight or be a bruising team. But I want a team that finishes checks. It says we have some of the most hits in the league, so I guess that I seem to be wrong.

I didn't like Hamilton either, and I was suspicious when Boston let him go. They were trying to move him when we tried to trade Iggy the first time.

 

There are your advanced statistics again. What constitutes a hit in statistical terms? At times, it seems to me they consider a touch to be a hit.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

I didn't like Hamilton either, and I was suspicious when Boston let him go. They were trying to move him when we tried to trade Iggy the first time.

 

There are your advanced statistics again. What constitutes a hit in statistical terms? At times, it seems to me they consider a touch to be a hit.

 

As a lot can see, I am not a stats guy. I used to think it was fun to work out averages, but later I realized that stats and what I see don’t always correlate.

[The_Tribal Chief]

I Liked last night games was Better but After Listening to the player they were really Gassed in the third with the Jet-lag effecting them some waking at 2am some at 3am so once they Recover from the Jet-lag of china this team will be better

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

As a lot can see, I am not a stats guy. I used to think it was fun to work out averages, but later I realized that stats and what I see don’t always correlate.

I hear you. I'm much the same.

The game is inconsistent, stats are trying to show consistencies.

It's become an industry over the last decade.

We went from terrible Corsi, happy-go-lucky and fun to watch with a playoff birth.

To respectable Corsi, boring as all get out, no success and incredibly frustrating to watch.

The possession game is waaay over rated if you aren't playing with the lead, for example.

I hope Peters' sock drawer is in disarray. Not neatly refined right down to day of the week. So to speak.

Let your horses run, stats be damned.

Hoping Peters knows where the line is, unlike GG.

Hopefully Peters isn't so sensitive to their needs to stay out of the locker room after games. You win and lose as a team, including the coach.

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I hear you. I'm much the same.

The game is inconsistent, stats are trying to show consistencies.

It's become an industry over the last decade.

We went from terrible Corsi, happy-go-lucky and fun to watch with a playoff birth.

To respectable Corsi, boring as all get out, no success and incredibly frustrating to watch.

The possession game is waaay over rated if you aren't playing with the lead, for example.

I hope Peters' sock drawer is in disarray. Not neatly refined right down to day of the week. So to speak.

Let your horses run, stats be damned.

Hoping Peters knows where the line is, unlike GG.

Hopefully Peters isn't so sensitive to their needs to stay out of the locker room after games. You win and lose as a team, including the coach.

 

There are a lot of stats that show how a game went and they aren't advanced.

Really, their place is backing up what you see on the ice.

But then again, they are subjective.

EDM counts hits and shot differently at home.

 

Shots may make it seem like you dominated, but we saw enough of that last year where we didn't.

Did we have the puck a lot?  Sure, when we weren't backing off on the other team entering the zone.

 

Peters seems like a bit old school.

Use the info but watch the game and react when you don't see something you like.

Don't be so stuck on a system that you can't make a change.

Don't just roll 4 lines because you have 4 lines.

Know what your players are good at so you can play them when you need something.

 

And, since this is about goaltending, don't just use the main guy because he wants to play.  Use your gut.  Make choices that have a long term view.

 

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

And, since this is about goaltending, don't just use the main guy because he wants to play.  Use your gut.  Make choices that have a long term view.

Let Smith know who is in charge. Should be interesting to see Smith's preseason reps.

Half games, maybe?

Should surprise no one when Rittich takes the backup.

If Smith gets injured...that was last year.

What really surprises me with Rittich is struggling with consistency.

He's a good goalie .Keep him in the moment. lol

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Let Smith know who is in charge. Should be interesting to see Smith's preseason reps.

Half games, maybe?

Should surprise no one when Rittich takes the backup.

If Smith gets injured...that was last year.

What really surprises me with Rittich is struggling with consistency.

He's a good goalie .Keep him in the moment. lol

 

That's the way Rittich has been in his career with the Heat.  Great one night, bad the next.  

As it stands now, Rittich is the only choice.  As good as Gillies looks, he's not ready.

Rittich is, but needs to play good every night.

[MAC331]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's the way Rittich has been in his career with the Heat.  Great one night, bad the next.  

As it stands now, Rittich is the only choice.  As good as Gillies looks, he's not ready.

Rittich is, but needs to play good every night.

What tells you Gilles is any less ready than Rittich at this stage of camp ?

[cccsberg]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's the way Rittich has been in his career with the Heat.  Great one night, bad the next.  

As it stands now, Rittich is the only choice.  As good as Gillies looks, he's not ready.

Rittich is, but needs to play good every night.

Gillies has played just as well as Rittich this preseason.  No, I take that back, he's played better.  If Gillies gets sent down and if nothing else changes its only because they can without going to waivers.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Gillies has played just as well as Rittich this preseason.  No, I take that back, he's played better.  If Gillies gets sent down and if nothing else changes its only because they can without going to waivers.

 

Guess I haven;t seen him play better.  

Gillies plays behind a veteran team in China.  OT loss.

Rittich plays the Oilers with a mix of AHL players and PTO's.  6 goals against.

They split the 5-2 over the Nucks, each allowing a goal against.

Rittich plays the Nucks and stops all the shots.  Parsons gives up 1.

 

Gillies has played well so far, but no better than Rittich.

If he gets sent down, it's because they want the guy that they feel can survive as a backup, not waiver status.

Even more important is that they feel Gillies will improve with more games played. 

 

[cccsberg]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Guess I haven;t seen him play better.  

Gillies plays behind a veteran team in China.  OT loss.

Rittich plays the Oilers with a mix of AHL players and PTO's.  6 goals against.

They split the 5-2 over the Nucks, each allowing a goal against.

Rittich plays the Nucks and stops all the shots.  Parsons gives up 1.

 

Gillies has played well so far, but no better than Rittich.

If he gets sent down, it's because they want the guy that they feel can survive as a backup, not waiver status.

Even more important is that they feel Gillies will improve with more games played. 

 

Rittich plays the Oilers AHL team and gives up 6 goals, including several bad ones.  Gillies plays against a top6  NHL teams from last year, gives up 3 goals, none bad.  Hey still early just can’t agree with your comment relative to actual  play.  Looks like Smith had a tough night tonight.  Hoping the goalies come around.....

[kehatch]

Who cares who played a little bit better? So far we don't have a single goalie above a 900 save percentage. None have played well. 

 

Normally I wouldn't worry to much given its the first half of preseason, but given its the biggest question mark and the most likey thing to derail the season I am a tad bit concerned. 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, kehatch said:

Who cares who played a little bit better? So far we don't have a single goalie above a 900 save percentage. None have played well. 

 

Normally I wouldn't worry to much given its the first half of preseason, but given its the biggest question mark and the most likey thing to derail the season I am a tad bit concerned. 

 

All I am getting at is that Ritttich is probably the right choice for a backup considering who we have.

[kehatch]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

All I am getting at is that Ritttich is probably the right choice for a backup considering who we have.

 

Of who we have I would agree.  Based on waiver eligibility and play last season.  But right now I don't like anyone as our back-up. 

 

One thing to keep in mind is the China effect though.  Smith talked about the jet lag having a big impact on his game.  

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Of who we have I would agree.  Based on waiver eligibility and play last season.  But right now I don't like anyone as our back-up. 

 

One thing to keep in mind is the China effect though.  Smith talked about the jet lag having a big impact on his game.  

At least were not getting shafted with some overseas regular season games. Still one of the stupidest ideas going in the league.

[cccsberg]

5 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Of who we have I would agree.  Based on waiver eligibility and play last season.  But right now I don't like anyone as our back-up. 

 

One thing to keep in mind is the China effect though.  Smith talked about the jet lag having a big impact on his game.  

The goalies definitely need to come around, and mesh with the team's d play which is still a work in progress.  The massive shifts in line-ups probably doesn't help much and hopefully that is near finished.  As to the goalies, I thought the past two outings for both Gillies and Rittich were pretty solid.