cross16 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Ya well, if we're going to go there, then let's not stop there. If Giordano was playing like Giordano of last season, then we'd be at the very least, 3-points better than were we are right now. By my count, Hamilton has single handedly cost us about 4-points in the standings (and I'm being really nice about that number). If he was playing all season like he has been playing the last 2 games, then we'd be easily be an additional 4-points better. Oh, and if Brodie wasn't injured to start the season... If this and that, then we'd like in first place in our division for sure. I can't see how you can reason that Hamilton personally cost them 4 points. He didn't play well but I can' tmake the connection that he himself cost the team 2 losses, nor can I with Gio. I agree there are lots of issues but the D also sorted itself out once Brodie got back and we still saw bad goaltending and still have lost points due to it. I think the impact a goalie has on the score is more than an individual dman so while I agree there are other issues and players needed to play better, I stand by my opinion that goaltending has been their biggest problem this year. YOu are sunk in this league without at least average goaltending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Ya well, if we're going to go there, then let's not stop there. If Giordano was playing like Giordano of last season, then we'd be at the very least, 3-points better than were we are right now. By my count, Hamilton has single handedly cost us about 4-points in the standings (and I'm being really nice about that number). If he was playing all season like he has been playing the last 2 games, then we'd be easily be an additional 4-points better. Oh, and if Brodie wasn't injured to start the season... If this and that, then we'd like in first place in our division for sure. You are correct "if's and But's". Let's be clear here gentleman it has been a team effort. If our goal tending was average we still would have lost. On any given night it was either a soft goal ( poor Tending) or crappy d coverage. Kipper was a good goalie, not ever elite. In 2004 when we made our run, Kipper had great D coverage in front of him. Now Sutter was the coach, system looked similar to what we see in LA now. Hell put Quick/Price in net with our D coverage the this season we maybe, maybe get 3 more wins. When 4 dman have more points than 9 of your forwards, you r not a very good hockey club. Last season was a perfect storm, this year is reality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Jon Gillies out 4-6 months with hip surgery. Treliving expects him to be back for development camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Jon Gillies out 4-6 months with hip surgery. Treliving expects him to be back for development camp. Nice, the best prospect we have in net, misses a season of playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Certainly sucks. I wasn't expecting Gilles in the next year or two anyway but you never like to see a player miss development time. Treliving is making it sound like a basic procedure and a common injury but I always get concered with hips and knees in young goalies. Maybe its the memory of Brent Krahn that still haunts me but i really hope this is basic and he comes back 100%. Edit: I dont' doubt he can come back 100% and still play well i just hope this doens't turn into a lingering issue for his career like it did with Krahn and his knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Certainly sucks. I wasn't expecting Gilles in the next year or two anyway but you never like to see a player miss development time. Treliving is making it sound like a basic procedure and a common injury but I always get concered with hips and knees in young goalies. Maybe its the memory of Brent Krahn that still haunts me but i really hope this is basic and he comes back 100%. I am pretty sure Thatcher Demko just went through the same procedure and everything appears alright with him so far. I think the biggest worry is the development time missed, goalies take longer to develop in to begin with. I was guessing 3-4 years before he was in the NHL anyways, but this might set him back a year on that estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I can't see how you can reason that Hamilton personally cost them 4 points. He didn't play well but I can' tmake the connection that he himself cost the team 2 losses, nor can I with Gio. I agree there are lots of issues but the D also sorted itself out once Brodie got back and we still saw bad goaltending and still have lost points due to it. I think the impact a goalie has on the score is more than an individual dman so while I agree there are other issues and players needed to play better, I stand by my opinion that goaltending has been their biggest problem this year. YOu are sunk in this league without at least average goaltending. I don't agree that the D sorted itself out once Bridie came back. The team play and D have been more off than on while some had good games on an individual basis, they haven't as a unit. Yes the goaltending had been bad, but D coverage has been so spotty that you can't blame the goalies for everything. I think we are exactly where we should be for points in regards to team play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Found this in my archives. Thought it would be fitting to post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Found this in my archives. Thought it would be fitting to post here. ^that would be classified as a softie, see Ramo, Karri and Hiller, Jonas. Plainly reiterates my point that the tender is the last line of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I can't see how you can reason that Hamilton personally cost them 4 points. He didn't play well but I can' tmake the connection that he himself cost the team 2 losses, nor can I with Gio. I agree there are lots of issues but the D also sorted itself out once Brodie got back and we still saw bad goaltending and still have lost points due to it. I think the impact a goalie has on the score is more than an individual dman so while I agree there are other issues and players needed to play better, I stand by my opinion that goaltending has been their biggest problem this year. YOu are sunk in this league without at least average goaltending. I disagree, the defense has still been garbage on a regular basis. Just because it smells less doesnt mean it still isnt garbage. Brodie has been great, but hes only 1 guy. Decisions in the defensive zone and defensive zone coverage have been bad to horrid. Goaltending has not been good as last year, but its still been good enough on most nights to win. This team either cant score, cant defend or both. Thats whats costing them games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I can't see how you can reason that Hamilton personally cost them 4 points. He didn't play well but I can' tmake the connection that he himself cost the team 2 losses, nor can I with Gio. I agree there are lots of issues but the D also sorted itself out once Brodie got back and we still saw bad goaltending and still have lost points due to it. I think the impact a goalie has on the score is more than an individual dman so while I agree there are other issues and players needed to play better, I stand by my opinion that goaltending has been their biggest problem this year. YOu are sunk in this league without at least average goaltending. Hamilton was outright horrible defensively the first month. He was solely responsible for at least 8 to 10 goals against in that time period. I'm talking like letting guys walk right around him, having the guy covered but not taking the stick, being in position but playing like he might as well have not been, being completely out of position, etc. If that didn't single handedly cost us 4-points in the standings, then I don't know what did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I disagree, the defense has still been garbage on a regular basis. Just because it smells less doesnt mean it still isnt garbage. Brodie has been great, but hes only 1 guy. Decisions in the defensive zone and defensive zone coverage have been bad to horrid. Goaltending has not been good as last year, but its still been good enough on most nights to win. This team either cant score, cant defend or both. Thats whats costing them games. Ramo's save % since being given the starers job is 90% even, That is NOT good enough to win on most nights. For sure there are still breakdowns and the communication amongst not jsut the D core but all 5 men on the ice is not good enough yet, the goalie still needs to bail you out once in a while. Ramo, or really any other Flames goalie, not only basiclaly never bails the team out they are always letting on average at least 1 -2 bad goals in per game. Like i've said I agree that they need to get better defensivly as a team but you also need your goalie to make a key save one in a while and that is not happening. The Flames are getting, and have been getting all year, below average goaltending and IMO a goalie is like a QB in football. If you don't ahve a good one you are basically starting every game in a defecit. That's how I feel about the Flames goaltending this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ramo's save % since being given the starers job is 90% even, That is NOT good enough to win on most nights. For sure there are still breakdowns and the communication amongst not jsut the D core but all 5 men on the ice is not good enough yet, the goalie still needs to bail you out once in a while. Ramo, or really any other Flames goalie, not only basiclaly never bails the team out they are always letting on average at least 1 -2 bad goals in per game. Like i've said I agree that they need to get better defensivly as a team but you also need your goalie to make a key save one in a while and that is not happening. The Flames are getting, and have been getting all year, below average goaltending and IMO a goalie is like a QB in football. If you don't ahve a good one you are basically starting every game in a defecit. That's how I feel about the Flames goaltending this season. Fair assessment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Found this in my archives. Thought it would be fitting to post here. That is a great video. Ramo has great reflexes. He tends to overplay wrap arounds and consistently lets in soft ones. Hiller was great and has just fallen off with time. Hopefully, we develop Gillies and MacDonald properly. I think we suck at developing goaltenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I think we suck at developing goaltenders. Hard not to think that. Many on here will defend past decisions, being the exemplary individuals that they are, but I don't think many will fully commit to claiming exemplary goaltender development. To me, the answer is not trading for a cup-winning tender. The price is just too damn high. We need to develop one. And if we don't have the expertise to draft/sign/develop one, then we Need to get that expertise.' jmho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Do you think Anderson in Anaheim should be a trager the Flames? Young enough, well established.... Costly maybe. At least he is worth a 2nd + something else. Any thoughts on what it would take or whether we should make an offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Do you think Anderson in Anaheim should be a trager the Flames? Young enough, well established.... Costly maybe. At least he is worth a 2nd + something else. Any thoughts on what it would take or whether we should make an offer? I am not sure Anaheim would trade within our Division. LA didn't trade Jones to San Jose. They got him through Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thought I would throw this out there - it seems to me that Ramo cheats to the short side on the rush. When the opposing team is bringing the puck in on the wing he stands too close to the icing line of the short side, leaving too much room on the far side. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I thought Ramo played a decent game against Boston. He let in 2 goals that COULD have been saved and saved 3 that SHOULD have been goals. He kept us in a position to win, thats what you hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Which goals should he have had? Maybe the 2nd one over his shoulder? But buy then, he already made good saves that kept us ahead. I don't think the others were his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thought I would throw this out there - it seems to me that Ramo cheats to the short side on the rush. When the opposing team is bringing the puck in on the wing he stands too close to the icing line of the short side, leaving too much room on the far side. Thoughts? I would say that Ramo has been the reason we have a chance to win most nights. It's not the number of saves or his GAA, it's just making the timely save. There were far more good saves last night than routine ones. He let in one goal that was even possible; teh top corner shot was pretty close to being unstoppable. The penalty shot was disheartening, but it was a goal scorer's goal. We need to upgrade in nets. Ramo is getting us through right now, but is not the future. Hiller is done. I don't see him able to rekindle the magic. We need to find the next one to get us through this and next year at a minimum. Andersen would be a target for me, dependent on cost. Valry is someone to consider, as is Mason if either were available. Bernier would be an upgrade to Hiller, but may be too risky. But then Hiller is a risk to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Thought I would throw this out there - it seems to me that Ramo cheats to the short side on the rush. When the opposing team is bringing the puck in on the wing he stands too close to the icing line of the short side, leaving too much room on the far side. Thoughts? The short side was a point he was breaking from too early and imho teams were targeting the short side on him. I think your seeing the correction they're applying. I think it's probably over-committing for the time being and just one of those things where the adjustment looks dangerous but I'm sure with coaching their aware of addressing it. Ortio has the short-side issue also imo. As for the anti-Hiller sentiments elsewhere, he's had 1 game back from injury, I think he could have used a conditioning stint. I'm not ready to throw him to the dogs personally, although I admit he hasn't been solid. With a veteran goalie, I'm alright with giving him some redemption time. I believe Vasilevsky will be the next goalie wanting starter minutes and would be nice to target, but he won't come cheap. He'll be in an LA-style predicament where he won't get a chance to overcome Bishop. See what their playoff needs are at TDL perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Last night was your typical Ramo night. Few highlight reel saves and then he lets in some softer ones that are more routine. I felt both Marchand goals were not very good. I agree he cheated too much on the first one and it also just went over his glove so it wasn't exactly a well placed shot. On the penalty shot he was too passive and let his 5 hole open up. Decent, but not great performance and while I do think he is their best option by far I think if they are going to get back into this thing they need more. Flames arnt going to be able to score 4-5 goals every night and right now I feel they have to of they are going to have a chance to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Last night was your typical Ramo night. Few highlight reel saves and then he lets in some softer ones that are more routine. I felt both Marchand goals were not very good. I agree he cheated too much on the first one and it also just went over his glove so it wasn't exactly a well placed shot. On the penalty shot he was too passive and let his 5 hole open up. Decent, but not great performance and while I do think he is their best option by far I think if they are going to get back into this thing they need more. Flames arnt going to be able to score 4-5 goals every night and right now I feel they have to of they are going to have a chance to win. It looks to me we don't have that goaltender we need for a playoff push. Ortio isn't ready Gillies isn't ready and is out from his operation for months. The remaining goaltenders in the system are too far back in development for consideration. I don't think there are alternatives right now on the trade market. or Maybe there is but the cost is just too high. On a side note look north to how much trouble the Oilers have had now for a few years at finding a quality goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I think goalie is the easiest position to find via trade. Every season one or two guys come out of nowhere and shoe they are starters. Dubnyk last season is an example. Bernier is a cheap option. Fredrick Anderson is an expensive but ultimately better option. Varlamov is a possibility. Every team needs one and only one (speaking of starters). That equals low demand and potentially good availability. I just don't know if it's better to go after a goalie in the season. Anaheim (for example) probably isn't ready to trade Anderson and the Flames have no chance of trading Ramo or Hiller. So it might be better to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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