Goaltending

[Krule]

I think Ramo is better positionally. I always had more faith in Ramo between the two. I am ok with trading Berra for a 2nd. It's good value for what we saw this year. 

 

Ortio needs a bit more time. Who knows, maybe the two (Ortio and Ramo) can platoon in net. Take turns… One plays two the other plays two, or ride the hot one? I feel like Ortio is a smaller goalie, eventually teams are going to realize he takes away the bottom of the net and then score high a lot on him. We'll see.

 

I also think Ramo is better positionally than Berra. We got a great return for the deal with Colorado and I'm quite fine with that. As for Ortio, he's going to get a lot more playing time in Abby. Now that he has had a taste for the NHL, he can work on the finer details to make him the best he can be. The pressure associated with a hopefully deep playoff run can do nothing but bolster his confidence level. I think it's going to be an interesting off season.     

[jjgallow]

I suppose we shouldn't forget Gillies in this picture either.

 

He struggled a bit after the Olympics, it obviously affected him.

 

However, he has come around lately with his usual display of strong games.

 

Actually, he just came off a 6-game winning streak where he never allowed more than 2 goals.

 

 

IMHO, he could be strong enough to start for the Heat next year.  I'll try not to think about Burke's comments.

 

We could have Ortio sharing with Ramo next year (and I see Ortio taking the lead in that as the season progresses), and Gillies starting with the Heat next year.   

 

That would be nice....Real nice.

[travel_dude]

I suppose we shouldn't forget Gillies in this picture either.

 

He struggled a bit after the Olympics, it obviously affected him.

 

However, he has come around lately with his usual display of strong games.

 

Actually, he just came off a 6-game winning streak where he never allowed more than 2 goals.

 

 

IMHO, he could be strong enough to start for the Heat next year.  I'll try not to think about Burke's comments.

 

We could have Ortio sharing with Ramo next year (and I see Ortio taking the lead in that as the season progresses), and Gillies starting with the Heat next year.   

 

That would be nice....Real nice.

Remember that Gillies is only in his 2nd year, so he may not chose (or Burke may recommend) that he stay in college for another year.  We won't know until the Friars are eliminated.  If that happens before the end of the NHL season, he could sign and be available for the end of the season (as he can't play in Abby this season).

 

With regards to Ortio vs. Ramo next year, I can't see Ortio taking the job from Ramo as the season progresses.  Ramo has developed over the season, and has looked like a starter since returning from injury.  Battling with Berra and JoeyMac early in the season did not help get his game adjusted.  If Ortio plays well enough, you may see a 70/30 or 60/40 split of games.

[robrob1974]

Remember that Gillies is only in his 2nd year, so he may not chose (or Burke may recommend) that he stay in college for another year.  We won't know until the Friars are eliminated.  If that happens before the end of the NHL season, he could sign and be available for the end of the season (as he can't play in Abby this season).

 

With regards to Ortio vs. Ramo next year, I can't see Ortio taking the job from Ramo as the season progresses.  Ramo has developed over the season, and has looked like a starter since returning from injury.  Battling with Berra and JoeyMac early in the season did not help get his game adjusted.  If Ortio plays well enough, you may see a 70/30 or 60/40 split of games.

 

Which could actually be the perfect mix for two goalies. I believe we should have done the 70% with Kipper, but we never had faith in any of the back-ups. I see Ramo as a guy who can play about 50 games and have the other goalie play the 30+. Who knows, maybe more, maybe less, and it all depends on how he does next season. 

[jjgallow]

With regards to Ortio vs. Ramo next year, I can't see Ortio taking the job from Ramo as the season progresses.   

 

I'm not guaranteeing it will happen, but I can definitely see it...possibly expect it.

 

Ortio has gone from ECHL to AHL to NHL...  in one season.

 

If we're going to talk about development this season, the conversation is about Ortio.

 

Yes, Ramo has shown some improvement, I still see him as a backup who occassionally has good games that make him look like a starter.  that is also what his numbers suggest.

 

 

Next season, I also expect most of the development to come from Ortio (and possibly Gillies).  I think we would be Extremely lucky if Ramo had a better season next year than this year.  At his age.  And, that makes him a backup goaltender.

 

Sure, he's somewhat proven me wrong with his play, and the starting position is his to lose now.  But I DO see him losing it.

 

Fantastic game last night though, I will say.

[s4xon]

If we're going to talk about development this season, the conversation is about Ortio.

 

Yes, Ramo has shown some improvement, I still see him as a backup who occassionally has good games that make him look like a starter.  that is also what his numbers suggest.

 

The conversation isn't just about Ortio.  Goaltenders are always developing their game, regardless of age.  Kipper developed throughout his whole career with the Flames.  Ramo's developed quite nicely thus far.

 

After Karri took the crease back from Berra at the end of November he's gone .924%SV, 1.83GAA, 11-6-3 in 23GP.  He's had to adjust to NA ice, and to a different living situation.  Those are excellent numbers for an NHL starter.

 

No one can stop you from viewing him as a backup, however his numbers and situation suggest he's a starter. 

[JTech780]

For me one the watermarks for deciding if a goalie is an NHL calibre goalie is a save % of at least .900. Ortio's .891 save % tells me that he isn't quite ready for NHL duty but he is close. He still needs more seasoning and he has few things he needs to work on. I am not convinced he will be a legit starter in the NHL but he will play.

Ramo has been playing well, and has earned the starting job going into next year.

I can see Burke targeting an experienced goalie like a Reimer giving Ortio more time to develop.

[jjgallow]

The conversation isn't just about Ortio. 

 

Fair.  True.  But we've come a long way from the time that it was everything But Ortio.

 

Goaltenders are always developing their game, regardless of age. 

 

Also true, in a sense.

 

 

 

Kipper developed throughout his whole career with the Flames. 

 

Sure he did.  Absolutely, I agree.  But he also peaked in 2006.   He was roughly the same age Ramo is now.

 

Ramo's developed quite nicely thus far.

 

Yup.  Gotta hand it to him.

 

After Karri took the crease back from Berra at the end of November he's gone .924%SV, 1.83GAA, 11-6-3 in 23GP.  He's had to adjust to NA ice, and to a different living situation.  Those are excellent numbers for an NHL starter.

 

They are decent.  As our most goalie's numbers if you take their best 23 games.   If he keeps it up...then yeah.  But....

 

No one can stop you from viewing him as a backup, however his numbers and situation suggest he's a starter. 

 

His very isolated, selected, best numbers.  Viewing his wins as  11-6-3, instead of 11 wins in 23 games.  Ignoring some things...like...the majority of the season.  Then, from this perspective, you're right.  I'm just being ignorant.

[Carty]

Sure he did.  Absolutely, I agree.  But he also peaked in 2006.   He was roughly the same age Ramo is now.

 

As near as I can remember, Tim Thomas only played 4 games in the NHL before he was 32 years old...

 

Then he won the Vezina and the Jennings at 34, and then won the Vezina again, along with the Conn Smythe and the Cup at 36...   So I would have to suppose that he didn't get the memo that a goaltender is supposed to peak at 26...

[DirtyDeeds]

As near as I can remember, Tim Thomas only played 4 games in the NHL before he was 32 years old...

 

Then he won the Vezina and the Jennings at 34, and then won the Vezina again, along with the Conn Smythe and the Cup at 36...   So I would have to suppose that he didn't get the memo that a goaltender is supposed to peak at 26...

According to this blog goalies peak at 24 or 25, not 26 so Ortio better get his time in for next 2 years, or become a member of the senior citizens of goalies.

[phoenix66]

According to this blog goalies peak at 24 or 25, not 26 so Ortio better get his time in for next 2 years, or become a member of the senior citizens of goalies.

I think we forget...how old was kipper when he joined Calgary? Arguably when he began his rise?..oh right..26. He was at his best 26-32

Ironically this blogs purpose was to show that Luongo will be a top goalie until he's 37.

[kehatch]

Ramo has NHL starter numbers and a win percentage over 50 percent on a bottom five NHL team. That includes his first half where he was getting used to the game and where he couldn't buy starts due to Hartleys love of Berra.

I don't know what we have in Ramo. But to suggest his ceiling is as a back up because he is 26 doesn't add up.

[jjgallow]

According to this blog goalies peak at 24 or 25, not 26 so Ortio better get his time in for next 2 years, or become a member of the senior citizens of goalies.

 

Wow DirtyDeeds, thanks.  That's an amazing read.

 

I don't agree with lots of it, of course, but that's just my charming nature

 

I do agree that goaltenders don't peak quite as we sometimes suspect.   Possibly due to the reputation factor.

 

It is the least-understood position in hockey, and thus reputation is relied on more heavily.

 

Kipper Really Did peak in 2006, by any performance that can be measured.  But he was, and still is, revered by Flames fans and professionals alike for that performance.  And it's not like his performance suddenly dropped off, either.  he was good right up until...2013ish.

 

I'm not saying that he can't be a true starting goaltender for a contending team.  I'm just saying that he chances are extremely remote of developing that much more, this late in his career.

 

I'm also not saying he can't be a starter for us.   Becuase we have a LONG ways to go before we're a contender.  He's as good as anyone, starting for us.   But when you think of our next big cup run, you're looking at goalies Ortio's age or younger.  Honestly, we are.

 

Ortio will probably be in his mid-late 20's when that happens (or Gillies, etc).  As Kipper was in 2006.  And Ramo....well he might do what Tim Thomas did.  And he most highly likely won't.

[cross16]

I suppose we shouldn't forget Gillies in this picture either.

He struggled a bit after the Olympics, it obviously affected him.

However, he has come around lately with his usual display of strong games.

Actually, he just came off a 6-game winning streak where he never allowed more than 2 goals.

IMHO, he could be strong enough to start for the Heat next year. I'll try not to think about Burke's comments.

We could have Ortio sharing with Ramo next year (and I see Ortio taking the lead in that as the season progresses), and Gillies starting with the Heat next year.

That would be nice....Real nice.

Personally I would encourage Gilles to stay in te NCAA. I think he can accomplish a lot there and the Friars are likely to remain a verh good team and he can get some bigger game experience in a lower pressure environment. I'm a big believer that when it comes to goalies to really take your time and I always liked what the flames did with ortio. You have a unique opportunity with European and NCAA goalie prospects that you can retain their rights for a longer period of time while keeping them away from pro hockey and I think the flames should take advantage if it. Personally I don't think Gilles is ready for pro hockey especially to start in pro hockey.

[DirtyDeeds]

Wow DirtyDeeds, thanks.  That's an amazing read.

 

I don't agree with lots of it, of course, but that's just my charming nature

 

I do agree that goaltenders don't peak quite as we sometimes suspect.   Possibly due to the reputation factor.

 

I found his thinking very interesting too. Where I have the most trouble with his thinking is where he goes into depth about veteran more elite goaltenders being the group that skews the stats for over 30 goaltenders.

 

Then he goes to comparing goaltenders to themselves to determine if they peeked at a young age or later. This does not account for team strength/ weakness at all.

 

Case in point is Miller who floundered with a poor team like Buffalo and now will show marked improvement with St Louis at a later age.

 

Those people who rely on just stats won't see Millers awesome play this year as his time with Buffalo drags down his overall avg despite everyone saying he is playing one of his best ever years.

Personally I would encourage Gilles to stay in te NCAA. I think he can accomplish a lot there and the Friars are likely to remain a verh good team and he can get some bigger game experience in a lower pressure environment. I'm a big believer that when it comes to goalies to really take your time and I always liked what the flames did with ortio. You have a unique opportunity with European and NCAA goalie prospects that you can retain their rights for a longer period of time while keeping them away from pro hockey and I think the flames should take advantage if it. Personally I don't think Gilles is ready for pro hockey especially to start in pro hockey.

 

I agree he is not ready. Of the 3 goals here 2 are weak wrap around goals that should never go in. I stop short at saying he is not playing well because I did not see his play the rest of the game. The write ups say the team failed to play in front of him for most of the game so.....

 

[jjgallow]

I did not see any goals which should never go in.   The wraparound itself can't happen like that, imho.

 

Does Gillies have some awkward moments with his huge frame?  Yes.  

 

But IMHO, the best place for him to work on that is with the Heat, where he will receive the professional development he needs.

 

He could have some tough decisions ahead of him, for sure.  Could he get punted off the Heat and end up in the ECHL?

 

It's a risk.   But so is playing in a league/team that has no experience developing the kind of lateral movement a goalie his size needs.

[MAC331]

Ramo looks like a young Kiprusoff to me and should be given every opportunity to be the #1 next year.

[Carty]

Ramo gets the start again tonight...

 

[phoenix66]

I did not see any goals which should never go in. The wraparound itself can't happen like that, imho.

Does Gillies have some awkward moments with his huge frame? Yes.

But IMHO, the best place for him to work on that is with the Heat, where he will receive the professional development he needs.

He could have some tough decisions ahead of him, for sure. Could he get punted off the Heat and end up in the ECHL?

It's a risk. But so is playing in a league/team that has no experience developing the kind of lateral movement a goalie his size needs.

Have to admit im mixed. If ortio is up next year and Gillies would get to develop his game on the heat, that woukd be a step up and beneficial to his game. If it ends up he gets slotted to Alaska then hes better off doing one more season of college.what they do with iMac should dictate what happens. Personally I think they save a year of his pro contract and leave him there one more year.

[Lucid_Flame91]

In their first NCAA Tournament game, Calgary Flames prospects Mark Jankowski and Jon Gillies came up big for the Providence College Friars.

 

Jankowski, who was the Flames 2012 first round pick, scored the game-winner at the 3:37 mark of the first period and the Friars added three more goals in the second stanza, collecting a 4-0 victory over the Quinnipiac Bobcats.

 

Gillies made 37 saves in the victory. The Flames 2012 third round pick is now 19-8-5 this season with four shutouts to his name. His GAA sits at 2.13 and he has a .931 save percentage through 33 games.

 

Providence will move on to face Union on Saturday in the East Regional final.

 

It was Providence's first NCAA Tournament victory since 1991

[jjgallow]

I agree he is not ready. Of the 3 goals here 2 are weak wrap around goals that should never go in. I stop short at saying he is not playing well because I did not see his play the rest of the game. The write ups say the team failed to play in front of him for most of the game so.....

 

 

Since we're going off one-game assessments...

 

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2014/3/28/5559152/ncaa-hockey-tournament-east-regional-providence-quinnipiac-recap-jon-gillies-nate-leaman

 

Any wraparounds that bothered anyone in this game?

[Lucid_Flame91]

Ortio with the 1st star of the game in last nights 2-1 OT Heat win stopping 43/44 shots.

 

He's 4th in GAA at 2.21, and Tied for 1st in Save % at 0.928

 

I couldn't be happier seeing him back with the Heat, I'm beyond excited for the Heat's play-off push.

[Carty]

Ramo gets the start again tonight...

 

[Carty]

and...   Ramo gets the start again tonight...

 

[cross16]

Can't link it because in on my phone but Gilles posted in twitter today he is heading back to Providence for one more year. 100% right call IMO.