Goaltending

[Lucid_Flame91]

these injurys are getting a bit much

[bronco73]

To be honest I don't see a huge difference between Ramo, Mac and Berra.... all three make GREAT backup goalie not a number 1 though.

I think that bona fide number one all star netminder is getting harder and harder to find, perhaps it's why we are seeing more and more teams going with the tandem.

[jjgallow]

By the very definition of "number one all star goaltender"...

 

They've always been hard to find.

 

We've deployed an interesting approach of acquiring goalies in their late 20's who nobody else wants, and seeing if one of them transforms into a number one all star goaltender.

 

The approach has made for some interesting discussion

 

Not that Edmonton's done any better there.

 

 

Jon Gillies is looking like he could become that guy.  Ortio has a chance too.   I'm not thrilled that we gave you Brossoit.  He also has a remote chance.   

 

And, as you've suggested, our future could be a Gillies/Ortio tandem.

 

But I don't think not having one Top goaltender is a new thing, except in Alberta.

[Carty]

Daily Faceoff ‏@DailyFaceoff36 min

Karri Ramo who is scheduled to start tonight got hurt in practice, will get an update shortly #Flames

 

 

 

 

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=693810&navid=DL|CGY|home

[phoenix66]

I think that bona fide number one all star netminder is getting harder and harder to find, perhaps it's why we are seeing more and more teams going with the tandem.

Calgary has essentially only had 2 in their history (vernon, kipper)..Aside from the hasek years, Detroit made a habit of winning cups with very average goaltending..chicago has won 2 cups with average goaltending. On the flipside, go ask buffalo, new york rangers, and to a lesser degree Vancouver what good having all star goaltending has been. (Or the 2006-2012 flames)

My point being..I guarantee you, you put either ramo or berra in chicago, or boston, or heck even pittsburgh..we wouldnt be having this discussion.As long as we have a green defense, and this rebuild is on, you could have Lundqvist or miller back there and I doubt either would have a save% over .900

We have late game breakdowns not just because the goalie isnt slamming the door. But because we have certain dmen playing 20+ minutes who shouldn't be playing over 12 and teams are getting quality scoring chances we werent giving them earlier. We start out in top gear and fade..top teams pace and then switch gears when we do. Its part of the process, like it or not.

[travel_dude]

By the very definition of "number one all star goaltender"...

 

They've always been hard to find.

 

We've deployed an interesting approach of acquiring goalies in their late 20's who nobody else wants, and seeing if one of them transforms into a number one all star goaltender.

 

The approach has made for some interesting discussion

 

Not that Edmonton's done any better there.

 

 

Jon Gillies is looking like he could become that guy.  Ortio has a chance too.   I'm not thrilled that we gave you Brossoit.  He also has a remote chance.   

 

And, as you've suggested, our future could be a Gillies/Ortio tandem.

 

But I don't think not having one Top goaltender is a new thing, except in Alberta.

The coach's decisions have not helped the goalie situation. He should have left Berra in the AHL to develop properly, and had Ramo get the lion's share of starts in Calgary. Instead, JoeyMac gets played until he proves he is not the right choice, and Ramo has to sit during this period. Berra gets brought up and has one good game and immediately is the starter.

It's a little difficult to know what we have in Ramo at this point. Berra should really be back in Abby learning how to play in his crease.

[phoenix66]

The coach's decisions have not helped the goalie situation. He should have left Berra in the AHL to develop properly, and had Ramo get the lion's share of starts in Calgary. Instead, JoeyMac gets played until he proves he is not the right choice, and Ramo has to sit during this period. Berra gets brought up and has one good game and immediately is the starter.It's a little difficult to know what we have in Ramo at this point. Berra should really be back in Abby learning how to play in his crease.

I completely agree both need to get equal playing time..Ramo is not being allowed to work into a groove. But, both have little things they need to improve on. Berra overplays the puck, ramo needs to cover post to post better..etc.all things that will be improved upon as time goes on. If they do another 10-1 split after tonight then we know hartley has nade up his mind on who #1 is.

Im not convinced that malarchuk is the right goalie coach. Hes good, dont get me wrong, but the biggest reason for kippers stellar play in calgary, was david marcoux. You can see the start of his decline began when he was let go.

[geos]

Ramo played well against the Kings. I felt the one goal should have been stopped, but it is what it is. A pretty solid performance. He's earned the next start if this is a meritocracy. 

[travel_dude]

Ramo played well against the Kings. I felt the one goal should have been stopped, but it is what it is. A pretty solid performance. He's earned the next start if this is a meritocracy.

I think it is more a case of Hart-ocracy; only certain players are capable of being sat.

[DirtyDeeds]

Ramo hasn't had a start since November 8.  Digest that.  November 8.  That is over three weeks between starts.  Fleury and Luongo are the league leaders in starts and even their backups haven't went that many days between starts.  

Just for the record now that Ramo got his start and this discussion is even more meaningless. I guess you are going to have to put Devan Dubnyk in the "Elite Class" for your example because he started 10 straight for the Oilers just before Bryzgalov was signed and brought up.

[travel_dude]

Just for the record now that Ramo got his start and this discussion is even more meaningless. I guess you are going to have to put Devan Dubnyk in the "Elite Class" for your example because he started 10 straight for the Oilers just before Bryzgalov was signed and brought up.

It was known before the Cali trip that Ramo would start against the Kings.  Second game of a B2B. 

 

I don't really think the Dubie situation is a good comparable.  Backman was injured, and LaBarbera was just plain bad.  Bryz needed time before he was going to be ready for the NHL.  Ramo had similar numbers to Berra, but Berra kept getting the starts.

 

But, it may turn out to be a meaningless discussion, as Ramo could indeed get a few in a row, especially if he wins the next game or two.  I would prefer that they sit Berra for a few games, because I am not a big fan of the out-of-control saves he makes.  Ramo is more conventional. 

[Zirakzigil]

Ramo better start next game or I will be mad. There is no reason to go back to Berra right now.

[cross16]

Ramo better start next game or I will be mad. There is no reason to go back to Berra right now.

Agreed. If you want to preach you are a performance based team you better practice that and this is a great chance to do so. No question Ramo deserves the next start.

[s4xon]

Hartley confirmed that Ramo gets the next start.  It's nice to see as he definitely earned it after last game.  It'll be interesting to see a few tandem games from the Finn.

[travel_dude]

Hartley confirmed that Ramo gets the next start.  It's nice to see as he definitely earned it after last game.  It'll be interesting to see a few tandem games from the Finn.

Hartley made an odd statement on the matter:

“Karri Ramo will get the start,” coach Bob Hartley said. “I’ve said it, I remember. We will probably not announce a No. 1 goalie all year. It’s going to be a battle. I’ve said it from Day 1, it’s basically a three-man battle. Joey MacDonald is part of the mix and right now, we go with Karri and Reto. They’re doing good and Kari was excellent in LA.”

Kind of weird that JoeyMac is somehow back in the mix. I guess it is just Hartley saying that Ramo is far from his first choice, so we may get back to Joey getting a bunch more starts and Ramo getting demoted.

[DirtyDeeds]

Hartley made an odd statement on the matter:

“Karri Ramo will get the start,” coach Bob Hartley said. “I’ve said it, I remember. We will probably not announce a No. 1 goalie all year. It’s going to be a battle. I’ve said it from Day 1, it’s basically a three-man battle. Joey MacDonald is part of the mix and right now, we go with Karri and Reto. They’re doing good and Kari was excellent in LA.”

Kind of weird that JoeyMac is somehow back in the mix. I guess it is just Hartley saying that Ramo is far from his first choice, so we may get back to Joey getting a bunch more starts and Ramo getting demoted.

They said 3 goalies would get the chances this year. They said they would not carry 3 goalies on the Flames at any time this year.

 

That means they had to take their lumps and send 1 down. JMac cleared waivers which is something they said they didn't want to chance but went ahead and did anyway to get Berra up here.

 

Go figure what their next step will be. Call up Ortio?

Heat stats:

[travel_dude]

They said 3 goalies would get the chances this year. They said they would not carry 3 goalies on the Flames at any time this year.

 

That means they had to take their lumps and send 1 down. JMac cleared waivers which is something they said they didn't want to chance but went ahead and did anyway to get Berra up here.

 

Go figure what their next step will be. Call up Ortio?

Heat stats:

Yes, I remember Hartley saying those things.  I find it strange that he is talking about Joey again, after not a lot of talk about him being demoted.  Berra is up now, and I read somewhere that his status is waiver eligible, so we are kinda stuck with him.  Ramo could be sent down, I think.  That doesn't make much sense though, considering he is no worse than Berra.

 

If anyone is called up soon, it will be Joey I think.  Ortio may get a call later in the season, if the Heat are well situated for the playoffs.  But it probably suits him better to finish the year off in Abby, and play for the Calder Cup.  He can come in next year and win the job if he is up to it.  By that point, Berra or Ramo will be traded or not re-signed.  Berra could also end up back in Abby, if there is any value in that.

 

Gillies is still at least another full year away from pro hockey, IMHO.  He is still just in his 2nd year, so he could play another year, get a chance for a title and possibly the Hobie (Johnny H is most likely the guy this year).

[jjgallow]

Honestly I could not think of anything I care less about than which of the Flames "NHL" goalies are the worst.

 

By NHL standards, none of them are good enough, and that's becoming very clear.  True, Ramo may not have been given enough opportunity yet.   But as things stand now, they don't cut it, and I've no solid reason to believe that's going to change.

 

All I care about is that we drop one of them.   Soon.    Joey MacDonald is hogging minutes in the AHL, and cutting into Ortio's development.  I'm not even really sure why, as Ortio has outplayed him.   But what matters most is that by Next season, we have something positive on the horizon.   That means developing Ortio, Lots, Now, unless Gillies signs early.  

[travel_dude]

Honestly I could not think of anything I care less about than which of the Flames "NHL" goalies are the worst.

 

By NHL standards, none of them are good enough, and that's becoming very clear.  True, Ramo may not have been given enough opportunity yet.   But as things stand now, they don't cut it, and I've no solid reason to believe that's going to change.

 

All I care about is that we drop one of them.   Soon.    Joey MacDonald is hogging minutes in the AHL, and cutting into Ortio's development.  I'm not even really sure why, as Ortio has outplayed him.   But what matters most is that by Next season, we have something positive on the horizon.   That means developing Ortio, Lots, Now, unless Gillies signs early.  

Did you actually watch any of the games that Ramo won?  I say that because he was a big reason they won in LA (both times).  Againt Washington, he played pretty well, limiting OV and crew to 2 goals.

 

I agree we should rid ourselves of Joey, but I think he is a placeholder until either Roy is able, or until his contract is up.  There have been so many B2B games for the Heat that Joey is playing to spell off Ortio.  Not great, but they want to give him the odd night off.  So far, it seems to be working with his 9-1 record.

[Kulstad]

Watching the game last night, Ramo appeared guilty of a few Berra-esque overplaying of the puck (sliding too far across the crease, coming out slightly too far to cut the angles, etc).  Is this a contagious thing, or is Malarchuk teaching this style?

[SheriforPM]

Considering that Butler was the only reason Ramo didn't record a shutout last night... I think you are all kind of barking up the wrong tree.

Give them a chance, see what they have. Ortio is playing lights out in junior.. yes junior hockey. 

A little early to anoint him the starters job in the big club isn't it?

[dijnn]

Very impressed by Ramo in this past two games. Follows the puck perfectly, very good awareness around his net!

[DirtyDeeds]

Watching the game last night, Ramo appeared guilty of a few Berra-esque overplaying of the puck (sliding too far across the crease, coming out slightly too far to cut the angles, etc).  Is this a contagious thing, or is Malarchuk teaching this style?

or adapting to the smaller NA ice?

[Kulstad]

or adapting to the smaller NA ice?

 

I'm a pretty patient and tolerant guy, but given the amount of practice/scrimmage time he's definitely had, he should be adjusted to the size by now.  Granted, practices/scrimmages are rarely played at game-speed, but he's bound to have learned by now.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love what Ramo's shown in the past 2 games.  I'm more concerned about the goaltender coaching than the goalies themselves.

[lordxan]

Well, agreed Ramo earned the next start for sure, but on a side note, both Ramo and Berra have been improving which is a very good thing.  They are neck and neck in that area I find, one improves and the other has to catch up which was the intention from the onset of the season so basically Coaching and Mgt achieved that goal!

 

As long as both keep improving, and Heartly is fair with the starts I have no issues.  I think both are starting to get adjusted to the NA game and are now working on and starting to see some consistency with their games.  

 

At this point I think all flames fans would agree, J Mac is out of the mix, Ramo and Berra are starting to play well out of his max ability range.  

I'm a pretty patient and tolerant guy, but given the amount of practice/scrimmage time he's definitely had, he should be adjusted to the size by now.  Granted, practices/scrimmages are rarely played at game-speed, but he's bound to have learned by now.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love what Ramo's shown in the past 2 games.  I'm more concerned about the goaltender coaching than the goalies themselves.

This has crossed my mind too, good point.  Same could be said for whoever is teaching the guys how to do FO's another really bad area for this team.