Goaltending

[jjgallow]

I have to disagree. I have high hopes for Gillies but at this point in time Gibson is the best goaltending prospect out there right now. 

 

Gibson's better at this point in time, but it's very, very close.  In a straight-up trade, I would take Gibson over Gillies.  But as to who will actually have the better NHL career, I'd say it's almost a flip of the coin right now.  With some odds going to Gibson, yes.

 

On a separate note, I find discussions about Gibson, Gillies, Ortio, even Brossoit...far more interesting than JMac, Ramo, and Berra, to be honest.   From what I've seen so far, I do not believe we have any mature NHL-starter calibre goalies in our system.  But we do have NHL-calibre prospects.  And that's the important part.

[jjgallow]

If Joey isn't claimed he will get the majority of the starts down in Abbotsford.

 

If Joey doesn't get claimed, then I don't think the shuffling is over.  The Flames are likely going to give Berra a shot.  If it's anything like Berra's AHL performance, it's not going to go well. 

 

If JMac is claimed, Berra can stick around to back up Ramo, and Ramo will probably see a lot of games.

 

If Berra does impress....which is what the Flames obviously want to happen...then yeah.   JMac could see a lot of AHL games.

[Flyerfan52]

Gotta disagree, Bernier for example went for a 4th, think we could have afforded that.  Added, there were many decent (by decent I mean better than J Mac) established Goalies in FA and many went cheap this year.  

Actually Jonathon Bernier's RFA rights went for Matt Frattin, Ben Scrivens & a 2nd in either 2014 or 2015.

[Ameter]

Ramo has flashes of brilliance but isn't very consistent.

 

Mac is consistent - but nowhere near good enough to be a starter. His rebound control is terrible.

 

All I know is... our goalie situation is worse than our defensive situation.

[DirtyDeeds]

I am waiting in anticipation to see what game Berra brings to the table. Troy ward has some nice things to say about his compete level and his ability so far this season to give the boys a chance to win.

[jjgallow]

All I know, is while all this complete nonsense is going on trying to get an NHL starter out of three non-NHL starters,....

 

Ortio has three wins out of three games with the Heat now.

 

A 0.929 save percentage

 

And a 2.14 GAA.

 

In otherwords, so far he's outplayed Berra.  And he's looking like he has the potential to be one of the top goaltenders in the AHL.

 

That gives us not one, but Two legitimate goaltending prospects.

 

Let the nonsense continue, I don't care.  Just keep developing this kid.

[403Loyalty]

Goaltending is a crap shoot most times some flourish on one team and then flop on others. Goaltending couldn't be any worse really so why not give Berra a shot.

[phoenix66]

All I know, is while all this complete nonsense is going on trying to get an NHL starter out of three non-NHL starters,....

 

Ortio has three wins out of three games with the Heat now.

 

A 0.929 save percentage

 

And a 2.14 GAA.

 

In otherwords, so far he's outplayed Berra.  And he's looking like he has the potential to be one of the top goaltenders in the AHL.

 

That gives us not one, but Two legitimate goaltending prospects.

 

Let the nonsense continue, I don't care.  Just keep developing this kid.

Agreed..thats why a big part of me wants jmac to get claimed. We dont need ortio riding the pine for long stretches while jmac gets all the starts. Dont need another taylor/Brust situation.

[swayze67]

I'm not a Mac hater, but this is the way it should have started the season.  We have a rebuild going so let the goaltenders decide their fate.  It's too early into the season and rebuild to start worrying about goaltending.  Let these goaltenders have the experience see how they fare.  It is much the same as the forward/defense,  everyone is on a trial until proven.

 

And phoenix is right, the chances of finding another Kipper are rare.  We need to focus our d-men on defending more.  I think they have went a little too far on getting them on the rush.  They need to play somewhere between a sutter style of game and Hartley' s style. Adding 2 defensive D-men wouldn't hurt either.

[jjgallow]

JMac wouldn't have been the goalie that I'd punted, but none of that really matters.  He may have been the only goalie of the three that the Flames Could eliminate.   Ramo's contract makes him un-movable.  Reto Berra ...no comment.   Let's just say I'm afraid to watch tonight's game.  No idea why you would start Any goaltender against Chicago for their first NHL game.  Especially one that's been getting the yank in the AHL.

 

It's pretty important for the Flames to get to a more realistic number of goalies.

 

 

I am Really hoping to hear today that JMac gets claimed.

 

Sending him down to the AHL doesn't solve anything for us.  It just means even more changes are coming.

[JTech780]

Haven't seen anything confirmed but a number a sources are saying that it looks like Mac didn't get claimed.

No word on him being assigned.

I wonder if there is a small trade in the works.

[Carty]

Berra gets the start tonight...

 

[bosn111]

If you look at the state of goaltending in the league, one of the teams who needs the most help is the Oilers. Issue is that they already have LaBarberra as their backup so Mac would be redundant.

 

Maybe Carolina would prefer him as backup to Bobrovsky instead of McElhinney?

 

Islanders might want a veteran backup over a 23 year old Poulin?

 

Tampa's Lindback is struggling as a backup and has worse numbers than Mac on a better team... maybe they will pick him up.

 

Unless any other team is looking to bolster their AHL team to have a bonafied 3rd string goalie, I don't see any other interest coming from other teams. You are really looking at those 3 teams.... maybe... who might pick him up. Based on losing a spot on the waiver list, the odds don't look good for Mac to be picked up.

 

Just my thoughts.

[DirtyDeeds]

If you look at the state of goaltending in the league, one of the teams who needs the most help is the Oilers. Issue is that they already have LaBarberra as their backup so Mac would be redundant.

Maybe Carolina would prefer him as backup to Bobrovsky instead of McElhinney?

Islanders might want a veteran backup over a 23 year old Poulin?

Tampa's Lindback is struggling as a backup and has worse numbers than Mac on a better team... maybe they will pick him up.

Unless any other team is looking to bolster their AHL team to have a bonafied 3rd string goalie, I don't see any other interest coming from other teams. You are really looking at those 3 teams.... maybe... who might pick him up. Based on losing a spot on the waiver list, the odds don't look good for Mac to be picked up.

Just my thoughts.

 

 

Oilers are getting poor goaltending from all their goalies. They have had some injuries too, most recent was last night when Bachman went down with a groin injury. DD was out with some minor injury.

When you are talking Oilers this is more of an indication of dreadful D. They have more problems but those are covered in the Oilers thread.

 

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=689757

[bosn111]

My main point about the Oilers was that I would consider LaBarberra and MacDonald as a wash, so unless the injuries to Dubnyk and Bachman are very serious and long term, then I see no interest in Mac from the Oilers.

[Wreckening]

Berra gets the start tonight...

 

Talk about a baptism by fire for Berra.  You get your first NHL start against the defending champs.  Not sure this was the best game for him to start but it is what it is.  I guess we'll get to see how well he performs under pressure.  Personally I thought we would have seen him start the Minnesota game.

[jjgallow]

Talk about a baptism by fire for Berra.  You get your first NHL start against the defending champs.  Not sure this was the best game for him to start but it is what it is.  I guess we'll get to see how well he performs under pressure.  Personally I thought we would have seen him start the Minnesota game.

 

We Truly are clueless with goaltenders, right through the organization.  Don't mean to doom them ahead of the game...anything's possible.  But the fact that it's happening does boggle the mind.

[kehatch]

Talk about a baptism by fire for Berra.  You get your first NHL start against the defending champs.  Not sure this was the best game for him to start but it is what it is.  I guess we'll get to see how well he performs under pressure.  Personally I thought we would have seen him start the Minnesota game.

 

I think Hartley liked Berra from the start and Ramo/MacDonald stayed up because of their contract situations.  This is probably a situation where Berra wanted to start and Hartley was chomping at the bit.  

 

I don't know that it really matters.  Ramo hasn't been very good so I don't think Ramo gives us a better chance to win. 

[Wreckening]

I think Hartley liked Berra from the start and Ramo/MacDonald stayed up because of their contract situations.  This is probably a situation where Berra wanted to start and Hartley was chomping at the bit.  

 

I don't know that it really matters.  Ramo hasn't been very good so I don't think Ramo gives us a better chance to win.

No he hasn't and you're right about him not giving us any better of a chance but I would have liked to seen if he could of bounced back from that loss.  Regardless I will be cheering for Berra to have a good game.

[jjgallow]

It matters, in a way, because it has the potential to crush Berra and destroy his confidence.

 

Like when they put Ortio in the AHL too early and he got blasted 9-0, and they banished him to Europe.  (took him two years to get back with the Heat)

 

Like when they did the same thing to Brossoit this year, he got pasted 9-0, and they banished him to the ECHL.

 

If you believe Berra has NHL potential, then it matters.  Because he may not after tonight.

 

I'm not in the camp that believes he's NHL material, so it matters not to me.  But it's a strange thing to do to a goalie you've invested resources into.

 

I don't really have an explanation for why things like this take place for the Flames.  The best theory I can come up with, is that maybe the Flames see goaltenders like penny slot machines.   If they try enough bizarre gambles, eventually something will work and they'll look brilliant....smarter than everyone else.

 

Maybe it'll work eventually.   But they'll sure have to destroy a lot of careers to get there.

[DirtyDeeds]

It matters, in a way, because it has the potential to crush Berra and destroy his confidence.

 

Like when they put Ortio in the AHL too early and he got blasted 9-0, and they banished him to Europe.  (took him two years to get back with the Heat)

 

Like when they did the same thing to Brossoit this year, he got pasted 9-0, and they banished him to the ECHL.

 

If you believe Berra has NHL potential, then it matters.  Because he may not after tonight.

 

I'm not in the camp that believes he's NHL material, so it matters not to me.  But it's a strange thing to do to a goalie you've invested resources into.

It must matter to you JJ because you bring up your "axe to grind towards Berra being pulled in a couple of games" any chance you get. We also all got your mancrush on Ortio the first time you mentioned his superior play in the minors and the time after that, and your subsequent 200 gazillion times you have mentioned it since in this thread and the Ortio thread.

Personally if any goalies confidence is that fragile that one poor/bad game would break him(like JJ's example of Ortio) then he likely isn't the goaltender we are looking for. I for one would rather see what he can do against higher level competition like Chicago.

[jjgallow]

Personally if any goalies confidence is that fragile that one poor/bad game would break him(like JJ's example of Ortio) then he likely isn't the goaltender we are looking for. I for one would rather see what he can do against higher level competition like Chicago.

 

I was trying to be nice.   I never said that Ortio was broken after one game.   In reallity, the organization panicked and banished him for two years, making sweeping, generalized opinions.   

 

Put another way, Berra is being put into an unrealistic situation tonight, and there is a high probability that the organization will make unrealistic decisions based on the outcome of this game.   That is their record.   It won't actually matter whether Berra is broken or not.

 

If you think it's a good idea, that's fair, but you should be prepared for whatever baseless decisions follow.

 

And my apologies for discussing Ortio and Brossoit and Gillies on a "Goaltenders" thread.

 

It's almost as if I talk about Ortio like he was the Heat's starting goaltender.  Oh wait, he is.  And, so many on here said that would absolutely not happen this year.   Am I talking about him too much, or there are number of key contributors on here too embarrassed to mention his name?

 

Get used to it DirtyDeeds, Ortio's not going away on goaltender discussion threads.  At all.  Most of the goaltenders you're hyperfocusing on will be going away, however.

 

But if it makes some more comfortable:  Ramo, Ramo, Berra, Berra, Jmac.  (oh wait, one of them's already gone)

[Flyerfan52]

Talk about a baptism by fire for Berra.  You get your first NHL start against the defending champs.  Not sure this was the best game for him to start but it is what it is.  I guess we'll get to see how well he performs under pressure.  Personally I thought we would have seen him start the Minnesota game.

The only good thing  about this besides DDs comment about testing his resolve is that the Hawks have no book & only play in other leagues to guess his tendancies.

*******************************

Just a sidenote.

In that 5-1 blowout over Wpg. neither Toews nor Kane registered a point. We really need to watch for their secondary scorers too.

[DirtyDeeds]

I was trying to be nice.   I never said that Ortio was broken after one game.   In reallity, the organization panicked and banished him for two years, making sweeping, generalized opinions.   

 

Put another way, Berra is being put into an unrealistic situation tonight, and there is a high probability that the organization will make unrealistic decisions based on the outcome of this game.   That is their record.   It won't actually matter whether Berra is broken or not.

 

If you think it's a good idea, that's fair, but you should be prepared for whatever baseless decisions follow.

 

And my apologies for discussing Ortio and Brossoit and Gillies on a "Goaltenders" thread.

 

It's almost as if I talk about Ortio like he was the Heat's starting goaltender.  Oh wait, he is.  And, so many on here said that would absolutely not happen this year.   Am I talking about him too much, or there are number of key contributors on here too embarrassed to mention his name?

 

Get used to it DirtyDeeds, Ortio's not going away on goaltender discussion threads.  At all.  Most of the goaltenders you're hyperfocusing on will be going away, however.

 

But if it makes some more comfortable:  Ramo, Ramo, Berra, Berra, Jmac.  (oh wait, one of them's already gone)

You are most welcome to discuss the goalies in the goalie threads but that wasn't my point. I made mention of the multiple times you have made the point that Berra has been pulled. Have you actually watched a Heat game? Have you not seen the interviews with Troy Ward who just recently stated that Berra has given the Heat a chance to win most nights? It kind of destroys this picture you are trying to paint of Berra playing bad by mentioning over and over that he has been pulled a couple of times this year.

I understand it is that you want to promote Ortio as your goalie of choice but how many times do you have to do it on a couple of Berra failures??

Are we readers that naive that we can't understand what you wanted to say the "first time"?? and that it needs mentioning in multiple threads and over and over and over and over and over again? It is bordering on insulting to me JJ, so understand this, I got your feelings the first time you mentioned it and I understood where you were coming from and why you feel that way.

[Carty]

Talk about a baptism by fire for Berra.  You get your first NHL start against the defending champs.  Not sure this was the best game for him to start but it is what it is.  I guess we'll get to see how well he performs under pressure.  Personally I thought we would have seen him start the Minnesota game.

 

Same here...   If it had been up to me, I would have let Ramo have the start tonight...