Goaltending

[Wreckening]

Abbotsford Heat ‏@abbotsfordheat

#AHLHeat G Laurent Brossoit has been assigned to the @AlaskaAces and G Joni Ortio has been recalled. Read More ~ http://ow.ly/qg9ij 

[travel_dude]

Abbotsford Heat ‏@abbotsfordheat

#AHLHeat G Laurent Brossoit has been assigned to the @AlaskaAces and G Joni Ortio has been recalled. Read More ~ http://ow.ly/qg9ij 

Yes, I saw that.  There are a number of games coming up (B2B) and you will see the games being split between goaltenders.  Ortio gives the Heat a better chance for the win and has gotten some playing time in Alaska.  Brossoit has been just OK, and needs to get some work in.   

[Invin]

It's strange how the talking heads are still going on about how we can't replace Kipper's goaltending. In his prime, sure, but do they not realize Kipper's numbers last year were worse than either of our current goalies? I think the media tends to hang onto the narrative a bit too long regardless of the actual stats. I guess they need something to talk about but it's funny to still hear about it when you actually follow the team. I'm always like, "What? Did they see Kipper play last year? How are they still talking about this?"

[ScottMacMahon]

I'd just like to say that nobody here has "had it out" for Ramo.  And the only thing getting "old" is him.

 

I'm sure he's a great guy.

 

 

But...he's 50th overall for NHL goaltenders...and I'm being nice there by using his save percentage.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLGAGALL&viewName=summary&sort=savePercentage&pg=2

 

Even if he was a young prospect, I'm sorry...but this would be cause for concern.

 

I'd also like to say that nobody here had it out for Ramo PRIOR  to this year either.

 

There just weren't any compelling reasons to Like him, other than trusting Feaster, or trusting the KHL's award system, neither of which I do.

 

His numbers in the KHL were Never very good, he's just always had a very popular goaltending style that fans have appreciated.

 

Of the top 10 worst goals of all time on Youtube, he has at least 2 of them.  I didn't upload the videos, I just saw them is all.

 

His last NHL and AHL performance, as we know, was disastrous.

 

Although...I should note that his performance then was actually Better, stats-wise, then what he's giving us now.

 

There are Very few examples of sub-par KHL goalies coming to the NHL and doing well.

 

There are exactly Zero examples of goalies who were blown out in the NHL, sub-par in the KHL, and then did well coming back to the NHL.  Zero.

 

There just Weren't any good reasons, that I could see, to Like him, other than taking Feaster's word for it, which I rarely do.

 

If I am missing something, I apologize, but I've never had anything against him.  I've just failed to see what a few on here apparently see as reasons to favour him over Many other good goaltenders we already have in our system.  None of which are true NHL starters, but then neither is he.  At least not yet.  And he's not exactly making a case for himself right now.

 

I understand that we have brutal defense, brutal PKs, etc.  So do lots of other teams. 

 

What I don't understand is how people blatantly ignore the obvious fact that JMac has been subject to all these same conditions, and Doesn't get blown out.  He still finds us wins, he keeps his save percentage reasonable, and he's a great person.

 

So, maybe we should "back up" here.   Because if we were going strictly off merit, we'd be a lot more interested in JMac's success against all odds, than explaining Ramo's failures.   I might be inclined to suggest that some on here have it out for JMac.

 

This reply was just absolutely all over the place. Don't even know where to start to formulate a response, so I'm not gonna waste my time.

 

So how many goals has he let in that were either not tipped redirected or where he was left out to dry. Look our defense and d coverage is beyond terrible. Put either goalie on a team that has half decent d coverage and either guy is not that bad.

 

Frankly, goal tending we don't know what we have till either one of them gets some god damn support in the d end.  

 

QFT^^

 

It is not possible to judge a goaltender after only 3 games...  It's that simple...

 

The Flames have to, and will, give Ramo more games to see how he does...

 

Starting with Ramo, and then over time the Flames will also need to give different goalies enough games to see what they have and if any of them are going to pan out...   If only one does or perhaps even if none do, then they need to make changes...

 

At 33 years old J Mac is not going to be the starter of the future...   So they need to find one...  

 

Win or lose,  the Flames would be setting themselves up for future disaster by playing J Mac too much instead of seeing what else they have for options in order to secure the goaltender position for when the younger players are more developed and the rest of the team becomes more balanced, including the D...

 

Completely agree. And this is what I was trying to get it. Its way too early to be judging Ramos play, especially with our suspect D coverage, terrible PK, amount of penalties taken, etc... In my opinion he has done well with the defence that he has had in front of him. I think that if he can keep improving then we may have a reliable goalie to use as a stop-gap until one of our prospects emerges as a true star/starter.

 

The Flames have one legitimate goalie prospect in the system.  And Gilles is a long ways off.  I was an advocate of going after a guy like Bernier.  But most here didn't think it was worth spending assets on a young goalie until were were further along with the rebuild.  That has left us trying to find out what we have available to us.  Pulling the plug on our best option 4 games in would be very silly.    

 

We know what we have in MacDonald.  If we want to guarantee mediocre tending than he is the guy to go with.  Berra, Ramo, Brossoit, and Ortio are all guys we have in the system that are long shots but are also guys that could surprise and prove to be starting NHL goalies.  Brossoit is clearly not ready.  I don't think Ortio is either.  If the Flames decided to give Berra a shot I would have been fine with it.  But giving Ramo a reasonable number of starts to work things out makes a lot of sense.  

 

Despite what some people say Ramo was one of the best goalies in the KHL.  That is coming from people that actually watched the games as opposed to to those that are assigning absolutes based on the box scores.  The guy was a perennial KHL starting all star. Even by just the stats he was good.  Omsk sure misses him. They are 20 games in and have cycled through five goalies trying to find a starter.  That includes former NHLer Biron.  None have managed anywhere near a .900 SV%.  Ramo was always between 0.925 and 0.930.  I really don't see how anyone could make a claim that Ramo was a sub par goalie in the KHL.  

 

Given where he is in his development Ramo is probably our best bet to find a starter this season.  He hasn't been that bad.  His stats aren't very good, but neither is Mac's.  Ramo had the starts against the tougher teams with his first three starts against the Capitals, Sharks, and Kings.  I only fault him on one of the goals against Dallas.  I thought he was really good in the Kings game and for most of the Dallas game.  

 

Its a rebuild.  Patience people.  We can't be ready to throw a goalie under the bus after 4-starts.   

 

Agreed again.

[jjgallow]

Well.....we're 1/8th through the season:

 

So far, I don't see an NHL goalie in Berra's record, at least not yet.  Currently ranked 26th in the league...he needs to get more consistent.   

 

Maybe if he was doing this at a younger age:

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4979

 

Very hot and cold....kind of like what we've seen from Ramo so far, but at the AHL level.  Good game, then gets pulled.  Has another good game, then not so much.

 

 

Ortio, meanwhile, is wasting away in the ECHL but at least has two shutouts to show for it so far:

http://echl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=3703

 

 

Brossoit was blown out in the AHL and really struggled in the ECHL....currently backing up Berra, doesn't look good for him this year.

 

JMac has been Jmac....and got us some wins.

 

Ramo:    Hot and cold.  Has played better than I thought he was capable of.  Has also played as bad as I'd feared.  We'll be 20 games into the season before we know what we have, imho.

[travel_dude]

Well.....we're 1/8th through the season:

 

So far, I don't see an NHL goalie in Berra's record, at least not yet.  Currently ranked 26th in the league...he needs to get more consistent.   

 

Maybe if he was doing this at a younger age:

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4979

 

Very hot and cold....kind of like what we've seen from Ramo so far, but at the AHL level.  Good game, then gets pulled.  Has another good game, then not so much.

 

 

Ortio, meanwhile, is wasting away in the ECHL but at least has two shutouts to show for it so far:

http://echl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=3703

 

 

Brossoit was blown out in the AHL and really struggled in the ECHL....currently backing up Berra, doesn't look good for him this year.

 

JMac has been Jmac....and got us some wins.

 

Ramo:    Hot and cold.  Has played better than I thought he was capable of.  Has also played as bad as I'd feared.  We'll be 20 games into the season before we know what we have, imho.

I will only comment on Ramo, as we tend to go round and round on the others. 

 

Ramo is getting better with each game played.  I don't feel many of the goals he let in were that bad.  What he is showing is a bit of rust, and adjusting to the move to NA ice.  His first two starts were separated by two weeks.  In both he was hung out to dry.  Two strong teams with elite scoring.  He then played in LA, where he earned the win with a decent defensive game being played in front of him.  Then, even though he is hot, sits until the Dallas game.  The Flames were tired and showed it in how they played in front of him.

He followed that up with another solid effort against Washington.

 

The Flames defense needs to stop the breakaways from happening (though he has played those excellent), clear out the players in the crease, and eliminate the scrambling D-zone play in the slot area.

[Carty]

JMac has been Jmac....and got us some wins.

 

JMac also has some really bad habits when it comes to positioning and awareness...

 

Here are two examples that resulted in goals from the recent game against the Yotes...   This is not the same play if you look at the numbers of the Yote with the puck, just the same mistake by JMac on two different plays...

 

 

Sure he has made some good saves, but he also gives up far too many rebounds and it is just not that hard to find examples of poor positioning like this...

 

That said, I also appreciate his positive contributions, and like having him as a backup right now...   But at 33 years old, the bad habits can be hard to break, and either way I just don't see that he has all that much time left on the clock...

[jjgallow]

Thanks for the pics Carty,

 

Good points.   I have to say, the first thing I saw in those pictures was a whole bunch of Yotes, and not a lot of Flames.

 

In both of those pictures, JMac is the only thing between 3 Yotes players, and the net, at point-blank range.

 

So...while I agree with your assessment....did it really matter where he was?

[travel_dude]

JMac also has some really bad habits when it comes to positioning and awareness...

 

Here are two examples that resulted in goals from the recent game against the Yotes...   This is not the same play if you look at the numbers of the Yote with the puck, just the same mistake by JMac on two different plays...

 

 

Sure he has made some good saves, but he also gives up far too many rebounds and it is just not that hard to find examples of poor positioning like this...

 

That said, I also appreciate his positive contributions, and like having him as a backup right now...   But at 33 years old, the bad habits can be hard to break, and either way I just don't see that he has all that much time left on the clock...

One of the things that Calgary has lacked (no Vancouver pun intended) over the years was a go-to backup.  One that you could trust to bring in when your #1 needed a break or had a history of playing a team badly.  Joey does give us a bit of confidence, in that he is used to the role and doesn't need constant tuning to keep sharp.  He was signed as insurance, in case we didn't get Ramo signed.

 

Given his age, the potential for one of our goalie prospects to make the jump, and the availability of adequate backup goalies, so this is probably his only NHL contract with the Flames.  I feel it serves the Flames better to have Ortio, Berra or Brossoit take over his role and develop along the way.  If Gillies develops the way he has been so far, in 2 years time we will have him and Ramo/Ortio/Berra/Brossoit being the tandem.  Anybody else is trade or release.

[geos]

If we still had Gio in the line up, I think at this point I'd be calling for us to make a deal to acquire Hiller or Elliott. We should be giving these kids a chance to win games. Our goaltending is a joke right up there with Edmonton's. It's not fair to our young prospects to be going out there busting it to be losing games due to goaltending. Yes, our defense stinks too. But we can quickly solve our goaltending problem with one quick phone call. We are 3-4 players from building an NHL quality defense group.

 

But without Gio this ship is sunk for the year anyway. Send Monahan off to the WJHC and put Bear in the AHL to go win some games and redevelop confidence. All I know is with this kind of outcome despite the effort, these kids are going to lose faith in their ability to win just like the Oiler's young guys have.

 

You can't build a team piecemeal, starting with forwards, than defense, then goalies. It needs to be done together in a cohesive push. Otherwise, you get the Oilers. That's the direction we're going.

[DirtyDeeds]

Berra let in 3 goals in 9 shots tonight for Heat. Ortio relieved and let in 1 goal in 18 shots(fan960). Heat win 5-4.

Not sure what to make of this except that JJ will be pleased to hear this... more ammo to his points.

[jjgallow]

WOOO!!!

 

http://theahl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1011226

 

 

I've never said "I told you so" over a goaltender doing badly.

 

But Ortio saving our sorry azzes and leading the Heat to an unlikely victory through his stellar play in the AHL?

 

 

 

 

Now that's out of the way.....Welcome to your new AHL starter, folks.  Face it now, or face it in another 10 games.  Go ahead and tell me this is premature...I've got lots more of these images

 

Gsus Berra....I actually thought he'd do better than this, and I've never even been that impressed by him.

 

That leaves Ramo and Jmac up top.   Still not convinced Ramo is the starter.   Tonight leaves me more unconvinced.

 

Berra let in 3 goals in 9 shots tonight for Heat. Ortio relieved and let in 1 goal in 18 shots(fan960). Heat win 5-4.

Not sure what to make of this except that JJ will be pleased to hear this... more ammo to his points.

 

Now now DirtyDeeds, you know I'm far to mature for that....  

 

But in all seriousness, this is a Very good thing for the Flames no matter what your position is here.  Berra and Ramo were never part of our future cup-winning team.  Ortio could be.   If we develop him as such this year, we're all that much closer to where we need to be.

[senor_incendiarse]

WOOO!!!

 

http://theahl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1011226

 

 

I've never said "I told you so" over a goaltender doing badly.

 

But Ortio saving our sorry azzes and leading the Heat to an unlikely victory through his stellar play in the AHL?

 

 

 

 

Now that's out of the way.....Welcome to your new AHL starter, folks.  Face it now, or face it in another 10 games.  Go ahead and tell me this is premature...I've got lots more of these images

 

Gsus Berra....I actually thought he'd do better than this, and I've never even been that impressed by him.

 

That leaves Ramo and Jmac up top.   Still not convinced Ramo is the starter.   Tonight leaves me more unconvinced.

 

 

Now now DirtyDeeds, you know I'm far to mature for that....  

 

But in all seriousness, this is a Very good thing for the Flames no matter what your position is here.  Berra and Ramo were never part of our future cup-winning team.  Ortio could be.   If we develop him as such this year, we're all that much closer to where we need to be.

So with all your gloating, are you 100% sure Berra being pulled was a sole indication of his play and not a move to spark the team, as it is common a goalie will get the yank in hopes of igniting the team.  That said, I'm not trying to sound like the biggest supporter of Ramo and Berra, but at least I'm getting behind them and hoping for improvements.  I'm not rooting for anyones failure just because I like someone else more.

[jjgallow]

So with all your gloating, are you 100% sure Berra being pulled was a sole indication of his play and not a move to spark the team, as it is common a goalie will get the yank in hopes of igniting the team.  

I've never seen a goalie get yanked purely for one reason or the other...it's always been a combination of the two.

 

 

That said, I'm not trying to sound like the biggest supporter of Ramo and Berra, but at least I'm getting behind them and hoping for improvements.  I'm not rooting for anyones failure just because I like someone else more.

If Ramo and/or Berra find us success, great.  If Ortio finds us success (at the AHL level), even better.   Because he has the upside that we need, and the youth to sustain it over many years.  I think it's great to hope for improvements in all our players.  But reallistiaclly, Berra and Ramo are already well into their prime.  And other teams are learning their weaknesses as they get more exposure.

[geos]

If we make the playoffs this year, it's going to be darn close. Every point will matter. And Ramo is costing us points today. He can't be our goalie any longer if we want a shot at the big dance. I'm fine for being patient and what not, we're now 6 starts in and he's running a 3.49% GAA and a 0.888 Sv%. It's garbage. I'm sorry but it is. Those aren't NHL quality numbers even on a bad defensive team.

 

Yes, he only allows one soft goal a night. Sorry. Unfortunately that's cost us a few points already, starting with 1 last night at least. We were the better team, he needed to rise to the occassion and at least attempt to match Bernier's effort. He didn't have to though, we outshot the Leafs 2:1. Yet he still couldn't come up with it.

 

It's time to move on. He had a shot. All he has proved is that he is playing exactly at the level of his last NHL stint, where he proved he was incapable of playing in this league.

 

I want to make the playoffs guys. It won't happen with this guy.

[kehatch]

If we make the playoffs this year, it's going to be darn close. Every point will matter. And Ramo is costing us points today. He can't be our goalie any longer if we want a shot at the big dance. I'm fine for being patient and what not, we're now 6 starts in and he's running a 3.49% GAA and a 0.888 Sv%. It's garbage. I'm sorry but it is. Those aren't NHL quality numbers even on a bad defensive team.

 

Yes, he only allows one soft goal a night. Sorry. Unfortunately that's cost us a few points already, starting with 1 last night at least. We were the better team, he needed to rise to the occassion and at least attempt to match Bernier's effort. He didn't have to though, we outshot the Leafs 2:1. Yet he still couldn't come up with it.

 

It's time to move on. He had a shot. All he has proved is that he is playing exactly at the level of his last NHL stint, where he proved he was incapable of playing in this league.

 

I want to make the playoffs guys. It won't happen with this guy.

 

Ramo was horrible last night.  But the Flames not making the playoffs won't be on Ramo.  As you have said a 100 times the team is weak at too many positions to sustain a winning pace over 82 games and now they have injuries to one of their key players going into one of the toughest stretches of the season.  

 

It is too bad the Flames didn't go after a guy like Bernier.  But wasting assets on a veteran doesn't make sense.  Wasting starts on Mac (who hasn't been any better) doesn't make sense.  

 

Ramo has always been a long shot.  So is Berra.  But at least they both have the potential to be starting goalies.  It is the right strategy and one stinker start doesn't change that.  

[geos]

Ramo was horrible last night.  But the Flames not making the playoffs won't be on Ramo.  As you have said a 100 times the team is weak at too many positions to sustain a winning pace over 82 games and now they have injuries to one of their key players going into one of the toughest stretches of the season.  

 

It is too bad the Flames didn't go after a guy like Bernier.  But wasting assets on a veteran doesn't make sense.  Wasting starts on Mac (who hasn't been any better) doesn't make sense.  

 

Ramo has always been a long shot.  So is Berra.  But at least they both have the potential to be starting goalies.  It is the right strategy and one stinker start doesn't change that.  

 

It's not one stinker. He lets in a one or two softies every game (except for one game where he was excellent throughout). That's why he's not an NHL goalie. Lots of goalies can make some big saves and look good, the guys that don't allow soft goals are the ones that start games. Ramo is not a starter. Between preseason and his 6 starts that should be quite obvious. I'm ok giving him a couple more games to prove he can be solid for a full 60 minutes, but each time we do, we're jeopardizing any playoff shot.

 

So far, it is on Ramo and JMac. We're scoring plenty of goals to be a top half team in the NHL. Plenty. We've got 4 or 5 points due to goaltending this year. That's the difference between where we are at and a divisional playoff spot. It is goaltending. Yes, our defense could be better too and that could make up for some of the shortfall.

 

But you have ZERO hope of a playoff spot with a goalie posting a 0.888 Sv%. That's not good enough. It really isn't.

 

The guys on Fan960 were discussing that this morning on the way to work and they were on the same page as me really there, so it's not just me seeing that he's not a very good goalie.

[dijnn]

I said it from the start Ramo is not your starter goalie his backup at best in NHL. The reason I say this is because he is inconsistant in the net. You simply can't let soft goals in and have big rebounds.

 

I hear alot of fans are thinking of playoff.... as much as I like to see Flames in playoff I highly doubt they will make it even if they do they won't pass first round especially with the Defence and net situation.

 

Like this is ugly....

 

J. Bernier

6-4-0

SA: 43 TOI: 60:00 Saves: 41 EV: 33 - 35 PIM: 0 PP: 8 - 8 SV%: .953 SH: 0 - 0

 

K. Ramo

2-3-1

SA: 21 TOI: 58:16 Saves: 18 EV: 18 - 20 PIM: 0 PP: 0 - 0 SV%: .857 SH: 0 - 1

 

[Kulstad]

Lets' see...

• an organization in the beginning stages of a rebuild
• a team full of fresh starts, rookies, and something-to-proves
• projected to finish bottom 2 in the league but are flipping the bird to everyone on that count (in terms of team work ethic, in the very least)
• and are exceeding expectations (especially from the fan base)

 

and you're angry about potentially missing the playoffs because of the goalie?

 

When virtually EVERYONE was screaming at management to "give the kids a shot" and to ABSOLUTELY NOT bring in any "post apex" players, you would have liked for us to trade away kids (or draft picks, I'll leave that up to you) to acquire a VETERAN goalie...when we had a glut of them to begin with.  Just how many kids (of what calibre), or draft picks (minimum 2nd rounders) do you believe it would have taken to land a veteran goalie?

 

I challenge you to list any goalie that you would like to see on this team, and post legitimate, realistic, and beneficial trades for the team giving up the goalie, and then tell me the Flames would be performing as they are now?

 

I am not saying that Ramo is a star goaltender by any stretch (from the crop of goalies we had before training camp, I saw it as JMac first, and a toss-up between Berra and Ramo second), but I just don't understand how anyone can be so negative towards this team right now.  Are there holes on this team?  You betcha, and goaltending is the biggest (because it is a solitary position.  You don't have a winger/center/other D-man to cover your mistakes).  But to be outraged to the extent that comes through in posts like that makes no sense to me.  This team is growing, and faster than most people thought.  Expect mistakes and growing pains, hope that they will be fixed, but don't get so pissed off that you hang the entire success or failure of the franchise on one player.  Not right now, anyway.

[Heartbreaker]

I wonder what Joe Sakic thinks of our goalie prospects...

Love.

[JTech780]

I wonder how much it would take to get John Gibson out of Anaheim? They have a glut of good goalies, they basically have 4 goalies that are better than anything Calgary currently has.

I usually would like to see goalies groomed quite a while in the AHL, but Gibson is a superstar and will be ready sooner rather than later. It would be take a significant package to get him but this kid is the real deal and I think he is the type of goalie you build around. It is highly doubtful that Anaheim is willing to part with him, but hey it's worth a shot.

LA has a goalie that might be ready to take the next step in Martin Jones, so maybe Ben Scrivens could be had. Scrivens isn't going to be a great starter but he could be a good bridge or a stop gap.

[geos]

Lets' see...

• an organization in the beginning stages of a rebuild
• a team full of fresh starts, rookies, and something-to-proves
• projected to finish bottom 2 in the league but are flipping the bird to everyone on that count (in terms of team work ethic, in the very least)
• and are exceeding expectations (especially from the fan base)

 

and you're angry about potentially missing the playoffs because of the goalie?

 

The expectation must always be to make the playoffs. As soon as you're ok with losing a bit here and there, you start bulding the mentality of the Oiler's up north. Something that may prove to be impossible to fix.

 

When the kids go out there and win games through their effort, only to see a loss on the scoresheet because we have no goaltending, it's disheartening. Worse, it tells the kids that the organization is prioritizing picking higher over WINNING. Last night should have been a win. Baertschi deserved a win. Monahan deserved a win. To have Ramo give it away because the team refuses to address the glaring need, it's a shame.

 

It must always be about WINNING. These kids deserve a solid goalie to win games. We're top 10 in the league in scoring. They're pushing and showing they can be winners. Let's see the organization step up and give these kids the support they deserve.

[geos]

I wonder how much it would take to get John Gibson out of Anaheim? They have a glut of good goalies, they basically have 4 goalies that are better than anything Calgary currently has.

I usually would like to see goalies groomed quite a while in the AHL, but Gibson is a superstar and will be ready sooner rather than later. It would be take a significant package to get him but this kid is the real deal and I think he is the type of goalie you build around. It is highly doubtful that Anaheim is willing to part with him, but hey it's worth a shot.

LA has a goalie that might be ready to take the next step in Martin Jones, so maybe Ben Scrivens could be had. Scrivens isn't going to be a great starter but he could be a good bridge or a stop gap.

 

The deal we should have made was for Bernier. I called for it last year and got heckled out of here because we had elite Ramo coming and Kipper was a sure fire starter this season. That was a fantastic value trade for the Leafs. We missed a huge opportunity to address our goaltending needs for a decade, for only a second round pick plus some garbage.

 

I would be more interested in Gibson than Scrivens. We need a goalie that can be a star. Not a stop gap (Scrivens). That said, Gibson will cost us a first round pick. That's what happens when you don't take an opportunity to address a need.

[dijnn]

Lets' see...

• an organization in the beginning stages of a rebuild
• a team full of fresh starts, rookies, and something-to-proves
• projected to finish bottom 2 in the league but are flipping the bird to everyone on that count (in terms of team work ethic, in the very least)
• and are exceeding expectations (especially from the fan base)

 

and you're angry about potentially missing the playoffs because of the goalie?

 

When virtually EVERYONE was screaming at management to "give the kids a shot" and to ABSOLUTELY NOT bring in any "post apex" players, you would have liked for us to trade away kids (or draft picks, I'll leave that up to you) to acquire a VETERAN goalie...when we had a glut of them to begin with.  Just how many kids (of what calibre), or draft picks (minimum 2nd rounders) do you believe it would have taken to land a veteran goalie?

 

I challenge you to list any goalie that you would like to see on this team, and post legitimate, realistic, and beneficial trades for the team giving up the goalie, and then tell me the Flames would be performing as they are now?

 

I am not saying that Ramo is a star goaltender by any stretch (from the crop of goalies we had before training camp, I saw it as JMac first, and a toss-up between Berra and Ramo second), but I just don't understand how anyone can be so negative towards this team right now.  Are there holes on this team?  You betcha, and goaltending is the biggest (because it is a solitary position.  You don't have a winger/center/other D-man to cover your mistakes).  But to be outraged to the extent that comes through in posts like that makes no sense to me.  This team is growing, and faster than most people thought.  Expect mistakes and growing pains, hope that they will be fixed, but don't get so pissed off that you hang the entire success or failure of the franchise on one player.  Not right now, anyway.

 

Dude you have to set expectations high.....you don't want to be rebuilding for years and years (Lol at Edmonton).... Ramo Berra JMac are all back up goalies at best in NHL. We burrned Kipper big time during his time at Calgary and he never had decent back up and this is why we are in this situation now....

[jjgallow]

JMac also has some really bad habits when it comes to positioning and awareness...

 

Here are two examples that resulted in goals from the recent game against the Yotes...   This is not the same play if you look at the numbers of the Yote with the puck, just the same mistake by JMac on two different plays...

 

 

Sure he has made some good saves, but he also gives up far too many rebounds and it is just not that hard to find examples of poor positioning like this...

 

That said, I also appreciate his positive contributions, and like having him as a backup right now...   But at 33 years old, the bad habits can be hard to break, and either way I just don't see that he has all that much time left on the clock...

 

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but after last night:

 

I would rather have a goalie that is occasionally off-position than one who is turned 180 degrees and facing the inside of the net.

 

I feel bad saying it, but we all saw that...