2025 Stanley Cup

[cberg]

Yes, yes, yes, every time discussion gets around to Flames tanking and finishing top5 next year people have a hard time seeing it and most settle on about the same next year, drafting 9th.  Maybe because not much else is happening or I have too active an imagination, I’ve been wondering what would have to happen for the Flames to not only make the playoffs but win it all?  In 2025?!  So, here goes…

 

First and foremost, goaltending would have to outstanding, Vezina level, Kipper 2.0.  Wolf is the likely candidate, and just to throw some support behind the idea, we did have Kipper, and Wolf has repeatedly risen to his league’s top 🔝 goalie after a short acclimation period.  Could he do it again?

 

Secondly, defense.  People generally look at this as the Flames biggest weakness, I rather see it as their potentially biggest asset, albeit young and inexperienced outside Weegar and Anderson.  With multiple explosive D and multiple stay at home D.  What if the Flames have Weegs, Anderson on a bounce back and Bahl along with 3 offensive D’s like Parekh, Poirier and Bryz/Bean make their D their driving force on offense?  Kind of like a great offence makes a great defense… 

 

Forwards?  Biggest thing here is Huberdeau coming to life and Kuzmenko continuing what he started last year.  Probably need one of Zary/Pospisil to become that missing C and a couple guys like Morton to push that 4th line as well as a total surprise, let’s say Gridin to come to life with a bigger challenge.

 

PP?  Between the new offensive D and fully integrated Kuzmenko the PP explodes and becomes top5 overall.  
 

Coaching?  Probably need to open things up too…

 

Anyways, any thoughts here?  The Americans did beat the Russians way back when, and the Flames ‘almost did’ win in 2005 on the backs of 2 superstars…..

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, cberg said:

Yes, yes, yes, every time discussion gets around to Flames tanking and finishing top5 next year people have a hard time seeing it and most settle on about the same next year, drafting 9th.  Maybe because not much else is happening or I have too active an imagination, I’ve been wondering what would have to happen for the Flames to not only make the playoffs but win it all?  In 2025?!  So, here goes…

 

First and foremost, goaltending would have to outstanding, Vezina level, Kipper 2.0.  Wolf is the likely candidate, and just to throw some support behind the idea, we did have Kipper, and Wolf has repeatedly risen to his league’s top 🔝 goalie after a short acclimation period.  Could he do it again?

 

Secondly, defense.  People generally look at this as the Flames biggest weakness, I rather see it as their potentially biggest asset, albeit young and inexperienced outside Weegar and Anderson.  With multiple explosive D and multiple stay at home D.  What if the Flames have Weegs, Anderson on a bounce back and Bahl along with 3 offensive D’s like Parekh, Poirier and Bryz/Bean make their D their driving force on offense?  Kind of like a great offence makes a great defense… 

 

Forwards?  Biggest thing here is Huberdeau coming to life and Kuzmenko continuing what he started last year.  Probably need one of Zary/Pospisil to become that missing C and a couple guys like Morton to push that 4th line as well as a total surprise, let’s say Gridin to come to life with a bigger challenge.

 

PP?  Between the new offensive D and fully integrated Kuzmenko the PP explodes and becomes top5 overall.  
 

Coaching?  Probably need to open things up too…

 

Anyways, any thoughts here?  The Americans did beat the Russians way back when, and the Flames ‘almost did’ win in 2005 on the backs of 2 superstars…..

Stop Bogarting that joint, man. I'm jonesing. lol

I love your enthusiasm.💝

I'm positive it'll be Detroit vs Calgary. If Calgary takes too many penalties, they'll get destroyed. So they need to stay disciplined.

A huge question I have is Mantha. Will you, just, like, play the way we all know you can every night? Dude's an absolute enigma. Do you want to be rich and famous at this point? Why do you keep Blockchaining around?

What, and I mean this in the most christian manner, the Blockchain?

I hope we aren't going to see the most frustrating player ever. I've already done v1 of that.

No way Parekh makes the team. Morin would be closer. We'll add to D, just a question of whom.

The rest is bird-on-a-wire stuff, but...

 

[cberg]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Stop Bogarting that joint, man. I'm jonesing. lol

I love your enthusiasm.💝

I'm positive it'll be Detroit vs Calgary. If Calgary takes too many penalties, they'll get destroyed. So they need to stay disciplined.

A huge question I have is Mantha. Will you, just, like, play the way we all know you can every night? Dude's an absolute enigma. Do you want to be rich and famous at this point? Why do you keep Blockchaining around?

What, and I mean this in the most christian manner, the Blockchain?

I hope we aren't going to see the most frustrating player ever. I've already done v1 of that.

No way Parekh makes the team. Morin would be closer. We'll add to D, just a question of whom.

The rest is bird-on-a-wire stuff, but...

 

Detroit vs Calgary, that would be fun, and would shake up the NHL, which needs it.  I agree with Mantha, he started off with so much promise.  Actually, for real I’m thinking Parekh might have a real shot, except why?  It would seriously upset the pipeline, but I think talent-wise might make sense.  Has there ever been a rookie-laden team that surpasses every expectation and was hugely successful?  
 

 

[The_People1]

Too many stars have to align for the Flames to win the Cup this season.  Wolf has to be Vezina nominee.  Weegar a Norris candidate.  Huberdeau returns to 100-point form.  A Calder nominee surprises us like a Poirier or Honzek.  That's just for starters.  Of course Cup teams have depth galore which means Bahl, Miromanov, and Bean all have to emerge as way too good for their 5/6/7 role.  Mantha, Kuzmenko, Coronato, Zary, and Pospisil all prove to be more than 3rd liners.  Emphasis on "all".

 

It's simply too much to ask for all of these things to happen.  Some may happen but that means we aren't Cup contenders.

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Too many stars have to align for the Flames to win the Cup this season.  Wolf has to be Vezina nominee.  Weegar a Norris candidate.  Huberdeau returns to 100-point form.  A Calder nominee surprises us like a Poirier or Honzek.  That's just for starters.  Of course Cup teams have depth galore which means Bahl, Miromanov, and Bean all have to emerge as way too good for their 5/6/7 role.  Mantha, Kuzmenko, Coronato, Zary, and Pospisil all prove to be more than 3rd liners.  Emphasis on "all".

 

It's simply too much to ask for all of these things to happen.  Some may happen but that means we aren't Cup contenders.

 

Well, if we are not a goal scoring machine, we have to be a goal stopping machine.  +70 in GF/GA differential.  Have a Jennings pair in nets.  In other words they have to steal games.  You don't have to be the best team in the league to win the cup, just have the right brackets.  It helps if you were the best team though.  I don't believe that all you have to do is get in.  You have to have the right team for the teams you get to face.  Beat up on fancy teams.  Not get lit up with penalties against teams that can only score on the PP.  Slow the game down against fast teams.  

 

I would see a point total the same as last year as being a total success.  How much did we trade of our cap?  $25M before they got new deals.  Yeah I know we are paying the goalie to play elsewhere.  I am interested to see what Sharky can do, whether Mantha can play consistent, whether Zary and Pospisil follow up rookie seasons, if Kuzmenko can hit 30 goals.  None of those are that lofty goals, but it would stand to bump up goal scoring from the lower numbers we saw this year.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, if we are not a goal scoring machine, we have to be a goal stopping machine.  +70 in GF/GA differential.  Have a Jennings pair in nets.  In other words they have to steal games.  You don't have to be the best team in the league to win the cup, just have the right brackets.  It helps if you were the best team though.  I don't believe that all you have to do is get in.  You have to have the right team for the teams you get to face.  Beat up on fancy teams.  Not get lit up with penalties against teams that can only score on the PP.  Slow the game down against fast teams.  

 

I would see a point total the same as last year as being a total success.  How much did we trade of our cap?  $25M before they got new deals.  Yeah I know we are paying the goalie to play elsewhere.  I am interested to see what Sharky can do, whether Mantha can play consistent, whether Zary and Pospisil follow up rookie seasons, if Kuzmenko can hit 30 goals.  None of those are that lofty goals, but it would stand to bump up goal scoring from the lower numbers we saw this year.

 

None are lofty goals but point is, all has to happen or there is no Cup.  The margin of error for this team is too thin.

 

I want to bring the Oilers into the conversation because I think they have a legit chance.  They also figured it out last season.  Basically, all lines play shut down defense all game.  Let McDavid/Draisaitl get their 2-points-per-game and try to win 2-1 every game.  Players like RNH, Hyman, Kane, etc don't have to score and they can still win.

 

In comparison, the Flames don't have that luxury of a game breaking offensive stud.  Basically, all of Kadri, Huberdeau, Zary, Kuzmenko, Mantha, etc have to be both trying to score and also trying to play shut down defense all the time.  That's asking too much.  That's asking everybody to do a little bit more than they are comfortable with every shift rather than letting players play their role.  Everybody has to wear multiple hats in every game.

[jjgallow]

What I like about this is that the goal is to win the cup.  For too many years, the active discussion has been "how do we make the playoffs" and "just get in".   That was just deadly.   I don't miss it.

 

What I don't like about this is 2025 lol.     

 

I'm more interested in "how do we bring the cup home by 2030".   And even then, it's ambitious.   Parekh may not even be in his prime yet, nor most of the top players we hope to draft these next 3 years.

 

Stay healthy everyone, lol

[cberg]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Too many stars have to align for the Flames to win the Cup this season.  Wolf has to be Vezina nominee.  Weegar a Norris candidate.  Huberdeau returns to 100-point form.  A Calder nominee surprises us like a Poirier or Honzek.  That's just for starters.  Of course Cup teams have depth galore which means Bahl, Miromanov, and Bean all have to emerge as way too good for their 5/6/7 role.  Mantha, Kuzmenko, Coronato, Zary, and Pospisil all prove to be more than 3rd liners.  Emphasis on "all".

 

It's simply too much to ask for all of these things to happen.  Some may happen but that means we aren't Cup contenders.

Generally agree, many if not most have to happen.  Until they fail, I’m saying “They have a chance”!

[cberg]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, if we are not a goal scoring machine, we have to be a goal stopping machine.  +70 in GF/GA differential.  Have a Jennings pair in nets.  In other words they have to steal games.  You don't have to be the best team in the league to win the cup, just have the right brackets.  It helps if you were the best team though.  I don't believe that all you have to do is get in.  You have to have the right team for the teams you get to face.  Beat up on fancy teams.  Not get lit up with penalties against teams that can only score on the PP.  Slow the game down against fast teams.  

 

I would see a point total the same as last year as being a total success.  How much did we trade of our cap?  $25M before they got new deals.  Yeah I know we are paying the goalie to play elsewhere.  I am interested to see what Sharky can do, whether Mantha can play consistent, whether Zary and Pospisil follow up rookie seasons, if Kuzmenko can hit 30 goals.  None of those are that lofty goals, but it would stand to bump up goal scoring from the lower numbers we saw this year.

From a point total success POV, that’s probably a reasonable goal.  I’m throwing reasonable out the window and looking for maximum success.  Against all odds, what’s the very best this team can accomplish?

[cberg]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

None are lofty goals but point is, all has to happen or there is no Cup.  The margin of error for this team is too thin.

 

I want to bring the Oilers into the conversation because I think they have a legit chance.  They also figured it out last season.  Basically, all lines play shut down defense all game.  Let McDavid/Draisaitl get their 2-points-per-game and try to win 2-1 every game.  Players like RNH, Hyman, Kane, etc don't have to score and they can still win.

 

In comparison, the Flames don't have that luxury of a game breaking offensive stud.  Basically, all of Kadri, Huberdeau, Zary, Kuzmenko, Mantha, etc have to be both trying to score and also trying to play shut down defense all the time.  That's asking too much.  That's asking everybody to do a little bit more than they are comfortable with every shift rather than letting players play their role.  Everybody has to wear multiple hats in every game.

I agree with your take on the Oilers, but counter that they were extremely lucky getting the Canucks without their Vezina-level goalie. Sure Mcdavid & Draisatl add an “unstoppable“ element, yet they’ve had them 10 years already and won nothing.  Having and depending on 1-2 studs detracts from a team game, where everyone improving 5-10% can win out.  Belief in yourself and the team can do that alone…

[cberg]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

What I like about this is that the goal is to win the cup.  For too many years, the active discussion has been "how do we make the playoffs" and "just get in".   That was just deadly.   I don't miss it.

 

What I don't like about this is 2025 lol.     

 

I'm more interested in "how do we bring the cup home by 2030".   And even then, it's ambitious.   Parekh may not even be in his prime yet, nor most of the top players we hope to draft these next 3 years.

 

Stay healthy everyone, lol

Agree on the timing with respect to probability of success.  This discussion on what if, or better yet, what is required?

[robrob74]

I think this draft can be key. If you're drafting high in the draft, the better players are easy to find. My theory is, if this previous draft wasn't as terrible, and quality depth players, they usually take an extra few years to mature into NHLers. Therefore, they will most likely mature along side players drafted in 2026/27. Some may along the 2025, but that depends on which 2025 if we have a pick in the top5 .

 

i think we may have a few picks in the 2025, and this is the year to gain picks to take on cap at the TDL (I think).

 

my hope is the RSD has been figured out. We now need:

 

- 1/2 LSD

- 1C

-Top6 RW

- 3/4LD

- 3rd Line C 

- top line LW/RW

still quite a bit.

 

[cberg]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I think this draft can be key. If you're drafting high in the draft, the better players are easy to find. My theory is, if this previous draft wasn't as terrible, and quality depth players, they usually take an extra few years to mature into NHLers. Therefore, they will most likely mature along side players drafted in 2026/27. Some may along the 2025, but that depends on which 2025 if we have a pick in the top5 .

 

i think we may have a few picks in the 2025, and this is the year to gain picks to take on cap at the TDL (I think).

 

my hope is the RSD has been figured out. We now need:

 

- 1/2 LSD

- 1C

-Top6 RW

- 3/4LD

- 3rd Line C 

- top line LW/RW

still quite a bit.

 

I believe half of that list is already in the Flames system, if not more, as long as development goes well.  Can always improve and upgrade…

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

None are lofty goals but point is, all has to happen or there is no Cup.  The margin of error for this team is too thin.

 

I want to bring the Oilers into the conversation because I think they have a legit chance.  They also figured it out last season.  Basically, all lines play shut down defense all game.  Let McDavid/Draisaitl get their 2-points-per-game and try to win 2-1 every game.  Players like RNH, Hyman, Kane, etc don't have to score and they can still win.

 

In comparison, the Flames don't have that luxury of a game breaking offensive stud.  Basically, all of Kadri, Huberdeau, Zary, Kuzmenko, Mantha, etc have to be both trying to score and also trying to play shut down defense all the time.  That's asking too much.  That's asking everybody to do a little bit more than they are comfortable with every shift rather than letting players play their role.  Everybody has to wear multiple hats in every game.

 

The die is not set with EDM.  They have a cap issue and they are gonna lose players that mean more to the team than Bro and Hollowman.  Their window has a year before they are in big trouble.  Had they faced teams other than LA and VAN would we be talking about them having a legit chance this year or another sweep in a round?  I'm not saying they were bad.  I just see the path far easier than what Dallas and COL went through.  

 

The margin of error is thin on any team.  We are not doing anything with G and D and F playing very good all year.  

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cberg said:

I believe half of that list is already in the Flames system, if not more, as long as development goes well.  Can always improve and upgrade…

yup, it's good, just put it out there to help the convo going. Maybe point out who might fill the roles.

[cberg]

4 hours ago, cberg said:

I believe half of that list is already in the Flames system, if not more, as long as development goes well.  Can always improve and upgrade…

 

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I think this draft can be key. If you're drafting high in the draft, the better players are easy to find. My theory is, if this previous draft wasn't as terrible, and quality depth players, they usually take an extra few years to mature into NHLers. Therefore, they will most likely mature along side players drafted in 2026/27. Some may along the 2025, but that depends on which 2025 if we have a pick in the top5 .

 

i think we may have a few picks in the 2025, and this is the year to gain picks to take on cap at the TDL (I think).

 

my hope is the RSD has been figured out. We now need:

 

- 1/2 LSD

- 1C

-Top6 RW

- 3/4LD

- 3rd Line C 

- top line LW/RW

still quite a bit.

 

Ok, here is an example of some options, more than is needed, but then again not all will make it:

1/2 LSD: Weegar, Solovnyov, Poirier, Morin, Grushnikov, and others… 

As you can see, there are plenty of options, and plenty of team options in terms of how they wish to construct the D.  If you wish to just dismiss them because they were not top picks, fine, but why bother.  But that is not the issue.  Look at the Oilers, within one goal of a cup with a decidedly suspect D, and also look at the Panthers, a SC with a couple of cast-off D.  There are many, many ways to construct a champions team and my contention is that the Flames have the makings internally to fill over half your list.  That includes the goalie, almost all the D and most of the forwards.  Really the only thing lacking is a top-level, dynamic, play-driving 1C, and perhaps a punishing, physical D.

[cross16]

Cup is hard for me to see. Don't see enough talent on the roster for that. 

 

Playoffs though, I wouldn't be shocked. Not expecting it but if their goaltending is above league avg (possible) PP in the top 10 (possible) and you get 1 top 4 dman to emerge I think the pieces are there to get in. I think the forwards are good enough, a change of style would be beneficial, it's really the D and the PP that would need to really step up. 

[conundrumed]

It'll be interesting to see how this roster shakes down. It'll definitely set the direction going forward.

I think Conroy and Iginla give us, or will, instant credibility.

Should be able to turn this thing around. Adding to scouting was way overdue.

Admirable job trading out the players continuing to turn us into a Satoshi Nakamotoshow. Thankfully they didn't want to re-sign, or I'd offer an alternative opinion of Conroy.

Just take the fresh start.

Everyone gives our draft an A, so it's nice to start hearing positives from the outsiders again.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

It'll be interesting to see how this roster shakes down. It'll definitely set the direction going forward.

I think Conroy and Iginla give us, or will, instant credibility.

Should be able to turn this thing around. Adding to scouting was way overdue.

Admirable job trading out the players continuing to turn us into a Satoshi Nakamotoshow. Thankfully they didn't want to re-sign, or I'd offer an alternative opinion of Conroy.

Just take the fresh start.

Everyone gives our draft an A, so it's nice to start hearing positives from the outsiders again.

 

I know he's a lesser prospect, but I am interested to see what Klapka can do and whether he's able to actually make the team out of camp.  Lord knows there isn't really room for him, but the big body does suggest he could make an impact.  Had an alright AHL season; led the team in scoring.  

 

Barebones team from the last time we were in the playoffs, so it's hard to tell at this point what we are.  It looks like it may be a fun team to watch, and I see less giving up than we had with guys playing out the year.  Buh bye Zadorkov.  Lindholm without Johnny G was a no show and looked engaged 50% of the time.  Hanifin is getting paid so see ya.  Wasn't a bad dude, but seemed intent on the US of A.  

 

Playoffs are always a possibility, but it would take some doing to get there, and honestly there is no point this year.  No reason to believe we would make it past the 2nd round.  The team is not mentally ready for a long run.  It would just be a fun ride for them.  Really they need to be prepared to regress a lot and build up on their deficiencies.  And we need to ensure we have the right pieces going forward.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I know he's a lesser prospect, but I am interested to see what Klapka can do and whether he's able to actually make the team out of camp.  Lord knows there isn't really room for him, but the big body does suggest he could make an impact.  Had an alright AHL season; led the team in scoring.  

 

Barebones team from the last time we were in the playoffs, so it's hard to tell at this point what we are.  It looks like it may be a fun team to watch, and I see less giving up than we had with guys playing out the year.  Buh bye Zadorkov.  Lindholm without Johnny G was a no show and looked engaged 50% of the time.  Hanifin is getting paid so see ya.  Wasn't a bad dude, but seemed intent on the US of A.  

 

Playoffs are always a possibility, but it would take some doing to get there, and honestly there is no point this year.  No reason to believe we would make it past the 2nd round.  The team is not mentally ready for a long run.  It would just be a fun ride for them.  Really they need to be prepared to regress a lot and build up on their deficiencies.  And we need to ensure we have the right pieces going forward.

 

Klapka isn't mean enough.  You need him to be more like Rempe and just go out there to run guys and pick fights.  Instead, Klapka has no fighting skills unless high HP and tanking damage is a skill in the NHL.  He is just a giant punching bag who cannot throw them with any power, speed, or accuracy.  No one fears him.

 

He can't score or make plays.  Average along the boards.  No speed.  No reason for him to be in the NHL.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Klapka isn't mean enough.  You need him to be more like Rempe and just go out there to run guys and pick fights.  Instead, Klapka has no fighting skills unless high HP and tanking damage is a skill in the NHL.  He is just a giant punching bag who cannot throw them with any power, speed, or accuracy.  No one fears him.

 

He can't score or make plays.  Average along the boards.  No speed.  No reason for him to be in the NHL.

Rempe was never a scorer in junior, if he was 5 inches shorter he probably never gets drafted, people like him are the guys I honestly don't care for anymore.  Not even that great of a fighter.  Klapka is definitely aided by size, but his ability has gotten him to the NHL, he is better than you give him credit for.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Klapka isn't mean enough.  You need him to be more like Rempe and just go out there to run guys and pick fights.  Instead, Klapka has no fighting skills unless high HP and tanking damage is a skill in the NHL.  He is just a giant punching bag who cannot throw them with any power, speed, or accuracy.  No one fears him.

 

He can't score or make plays.  Average along the boards.  No speed.  No reason for him to be in the NHL.

 

You don't need a big player to be Rempe.  Draisaitl isn't fast.  He is hard to move off the puck with conventual methods.  If all Klapka could do was dominate possession with his size 5-10 shifts per game, he could would help this team.

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

Rempe was never a scorer in junior, if he was 5 inches shorter he probably never gets drafted, people like him are the guys I honestly don't care for anymore.  Not even that great of a fighter.  Klapka is definitely aided by size, but his ability has gotten him to the NHL, he is better than you give him credit for.

 

I don't think we have a good read on him yet, so I think he might be better than we have seen.

[420since1974]

It would not surprise me if Adam Klapka begins the season as the Flame's 4th line RW who can take the odd face-off.

As TD said, he doesn't have to be a good fighter, his sheer size should help to wear down opponents.

His first step is a little slow, but other than that, his skating is NHL caliber.

[cberg]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:32 AM, cross16 said:

Cup is hard for me to see. Don't see enough talent on the roster for that. 

 

Playoffs though, I wouldn't be shocked. Not expecting it but if their goaltending is above league avg (possible) PP in the top 10 (possible) and you get 1 top 4 dman to emerge I think the pieces are there to get in. I think the forwards are good enough, a change of style would be beneficial, it's really the D and the PP that would need to really step up. 

Agree with the Cup perspective, it would be a shock and multiple players would have to have great years.  Agree also the goaltending and PP could very well make a huge difference and we’ve already seen signs it could happen.

 

One of the biggest things for me is a change of attitude.  Everyone and their mother is thinking and saying they will suck this year, while ignoring the reality that a couple key successes can alter outcomes dramatically.  If they can develop a positive, us against the world attitude, that would make a huge difference.  As fans, what responsibility do we have?

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, cberg said:

 If they can develop a positive, us against the world attitude, that would make a huge difference.  As fans, what responsibility do we have?

 

It is our job to prevent this from happening so that we can get Gavin McKenna and Landon Dupont

 

lol