2025 NHL Draft

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

I don't think they jump 30 points, but I don't think the Flames are anywhere close to an 81 point team next season, I could see either being 15-20 points better and the Flames being 15-20 points worse.

 

Within the realm of possibility, yes.  So have to agree to an extent but that's kind of like worst case scenario (or best case depending on which angle you want to look at it).

 

I think the Flames troubles are overblown.  Wolf is half decent and on the rise whereas Markstrom wasn't the same Markstrom from years ago.  Same can be said of Tanev... he's only 3/4th of his prime at best.  Lindholm was addition by subtraction.  And the Flames were a decent team after Zary and Pospisil got the permanent call ups.  Really, the only major loss that was Hanifin.  He's no superstar but he ate big minutes and those minutes were not replaced.  Still, I think a 70-to-80-point season is in range.

 

Subtract Kadri and Andersson and now we're talking.  That would be taking away another 10-points in the standings and puts the Flames within reason for a top 4 pick.

 

Right now, you can't even put together 3 NHL lines with the SJS and CHI rosters.  At least the Flames have 3... nothing dangerous but at least it's NHL competitive.  Flames also have better Goaltending, although unproven, at least better on paper.  I think SEA and PHI also look pretty bad going into next season.  Both teams have one or two star players and then a bunch of garbage.  CBJ is also one big mess.  ANA could be too young still and need one more year.  I mean, there's competition down there.  

[conundrumed]

On 8/5/2024 at 10:03 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

Hey Mr. Bettman, the 1st pick in 2026 would be a nice reward for the new arena haha.

 

 

He’s amazing. That Med Hat team should win the Dub. Mckenna, Lindstrom, Basha, Mrsic

 

edit- Med Hat bidding for the 2026 Memorial Cup. They’ve got the team for it, more so than Kelowna

The Mississauga Brampton Steelhead's look like they want an inaugural year impact. Just traded for Rehkopf to add to Misa, MacDonnell and Martone.

The cost was the CHL special - 10 draft picks.

[conundrumed]

What's with Sarnians and analogies?

Had to laugh at Army last night when they asked about all of his solid prospects. Will apply to us soon:

They're still a year or 2 from joining us. It's like Christmas where you have all of these presents, and you want to open them right now, but it's December 23rd and you have to wait.

 

[cberg]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Within the realm of possibility, yes.  So have to agree to an extent but that's kind of like worst case scenario (or best case depending on which angle you want to look at it).

 

I think the Flames troubles are overblown.  Wolf is half decent and on the rise whereas Markstrom wasn't the same Markstrom from years ago.  Same can be said of Tanev... he's only 3/4th of his prime at best.  Lindholm was addition by subtraction.  And the Flames were a decent team after Zary and Pospisil got the permanent call ups.  Really, the only major loss that was Hanifin.  He's no superstar but he ate big minutes and those minutes were not replaced.  Still, I think a 70-to-80-point season is in range.

 

Subtract Kadri and Andersson and now we're talking.  That would be taking away another 10-points in the standings and puts the Flames within reason for a top 4 pick.

 

Right now, you can't even put together 3 NHL lines with the SJS and CHI rosters.  At least the Flames have 3... nothing dangerous but at least it's NHL competitive.  Flames also have better Goaltending, although unproven, at least better on paper.  I think SEA and PHI also look pretty bad going into next season.  Both teams have one or two star players and then a bunch of garbage.  CBJ is also one big mess.  ANA could be too young still and need one more year.  I mean, there's competition down there.  

Agree, Flames are not that bad, maybe not playoffs but no where near bottom of the barrel.  They will be hard-pressed to be lower than last year.  Kadri, Anderson and others are not long-term, just mentor placeholders and should be on the market, looking for a reasonable to great deal.  If not before, expect next year's TDL even more eventful than 2024.  Looking forward to new guys making it to the Flames and how others continue to develop.  Can Conroy trade for  a future #1C?  Question of the year....

[jjgallow]

42 minutes ago, cberg said:

Agree, Flames are not that bad, maybe not playoffs but no where near bottom of the barrel.  They will be hard-pressed to be lower than last year.  Kadri, Anderson and others are not long-term, just mentor placeholders and should be on the market, looking for a reasonable to great deal.  If not before, expect next year's TDL even more eventful than 2024.  Looking forward to new guys making it to the Flames and how others continue to develop.  Can Conroy trade for  a future #1C?  Question of the year....

 

I think it's asking too much to trade for a future #1 C at this stage, although always worth a try.   I don't see us having the pieces for it.    

 

Like.....Controy really wanted Catton.  But if we're being really really honest, I don't even know if Catton would have been that #1 C.   On a future contender, he's more likely the #2 C.  Maybe a #1 C on a mediocre team.    IMHO our most realistic opportunity of getting a #1 C that would be the #1 C on a cup winning team is in the first round at these next 2-3 drafts.   So, yeah.   I also hope more players are traded and I'd prefer they are traded before the TDL so that we can draft high in 2025.   Some very good centers in 2025, and some even better ones in 2026.

[cberg]

18 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I think it's asking too much to trade for a future #1 C at this stage, although always worth a try.   I don't see us having the pieces for it.    

 

Like.....Controy really wanted Catton.  But if we're being really really honest, I don't even know if Catton would have been that #1 C.   On a future contender, he's more likely the #2 C.  Maybe a #1 C on a mediocre team.    IMHO our most realistic opportunity of getting a #1 C that would be the #1 C on a cup winning team is in the first round at these next 2-3 drafts.   So, yeah.   I also hope more players are traded and I'd prefer they are traded before the TDL so that we can draft high in 2025.   Some very good centers in 2025, and some even better ones in 2026.

Looking at a very young(still on ELC) C, who can grow into the position.  

[jjgallow]

29 minutes ago, cberg said:

Looking at a very young(still on ELC) C, who can grow into the position.  

 

Conor Bedard for Kadri

 

 

[conundrumed]

Are we getting too hung up on 1C?

Lindholm was a 1C, likely due to JG and Tkachuk. Point has Kucherov. MacKinnon has Raantanen. Can great wingers make decent centers great?

Note the question marks. lol

Don't start going sideways like I'm making a statement. These are questions.

[cross16]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Are we getting too hung up on 1C?

Lindholm was a 1C, likely due to JG and Tkachuk. Point has Kucherov. MacKinnon has Raantanen. Can great wingers make decent centers great?

Note the question marks. lol

Don't start going sideways like I'm making a statement. These are questions.

 

I think that depends on what your goals are for this franchise.  If the goal is to get back to being a playoff/good team quickly then yes it's likely getting too much focus. Focus there should be just talent acquisition and then you make it work with complimentary skill sets. 

 

If the idea is to build a contender (ie a team that can compete for cups and win over the longer term) then no I don't think people are too hung up on it. Can great wingers make decent centers great, to a certain extent yes. They can cover up warts but IMO they can't cover up everything so the greatness is likely short term both in terms of the player and the team success (see Iginla in Calgary). 

 

Point of any rebuild for me is to acquire franchise players (center being 1 of the key positions here) in order to build a sustainable winner moving forward.  Not wanting to start the retool-rebuild thing here but I would certainly hope that is part of the Flames goal which is why I think discussion the center position is pretty important. 

[conundrumed]

I kind of look at Toronto and Edmonton. Matthews and Tavares (maybe too long in the tooth NOW), McDavid and Draisaitl. You really couldn't ask for better.

The price is so high that they really struggle to balance out a roster.

I'd LOVE Hischier and Hughes all day long, but where is that getting me?

Where is the happy medium?

[cberg]

31 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Are we getting too hung up on 1C?

Lindholm was a 1C, likely due to JG and Tkachuk. Point has Kucherov. MacKinnon has Raantanen. Can great wingers make decent centers great?

Note the question marks. lol

Don't start going sideways like I'm making a statement. These are questions.

Yes, lots of ways of making an effective top line.

[conundrumed]

Thank you both for not making it sound like I'm trying to have a statement or a point.

Just a conversation.

[cberg]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I kind of look at Toronto and Edmonton. Matthews and Tavares (maybe too long in the tooth NOW), McDavid and Draisaitl. You really couldn't ask for better.

The price is so high that they really struggle to balance out a roster.

I'd LOVE Hischier and Hughes all day long, but where is that getting me?

Where is the happy medium?

You need a great team.  Offence can come from many places.  If a superstar or generational player demands too much salary, the team likely suffers.  It is a balancing act.  As for the Flames, Backlund and Kadri are short term and besides that we hope to develop 2+ internally.  Flames focus definitely needs to be on top level C in the next couple of years.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cberg said:

Agree, Flames are not that bad, maybe not playoffs but no where near bottom of the barrel.  They will be hard-pressed to be lower than last year.  Kadri, Anderson and others are not long-term, just mentor placeholders and should be on the market, looking for a reasonable to great deal.  If not before, expect next year's TDL even more eventful than 2024.  Looking forward to new guys making it to the Flames and how others continue to develop.  Can Conroy trade for  a future #1C?  Question of the year....

 

I have a feeling they will be drafting in the  6,7,8 range, just outside the top 5.

[sak22]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Within the realm of possibility, yes.  So have to agree to an extent but that's kind of like worst case scenario (or best case depending on which angle you want to look at it).

 

I think the Flames troubles are overblown.  Wolf is half decent and on the rise whereas Markstrom wasn't the same Markstrom from years ago.  Same can be said of Tanev... he's only 3/4th of his prime at best.  Lindholm was addition by subtraction.  And the Flames were a decent team after Zary and Pospisil got the permanent call ups.  Really, the only major loss that was Hanifin.  He's no superstar but he ate big minutes and those minutes were not replaced.  Still, I think a 70-to-80-point season is in range.

 

Subtract Kadri and Andersson and now we're talking.  That would be taking away another 10-points in the standings and puts the Flames within reason for a top 4 pick.

 

Right now, you can't even put together 3 NHL lines with the SJS and CHI rosters.  At least the Flames have 3... nothing dangerous but at least it's NHL competitive.  Flames also have better Goaltending, although unproven, at least better on paper.  I think SEA and PHI also look pretty bad going into next season.  Both teams have one or two star players and then a bunch of garbage.  CBJ is also one big mess.  ANA could be too young still and need one more year.  I mean, there's competition down there.  

Think you need to rewatch last season.  Markstrom was considered the MVP of the team prior to the trade deadline his play alone won plenty of games.  You can't tell by looking at the overall stats but from December to the deadline he was at a Vezina level.  Team hit the tanks after trading Hanifin and Tanev, mainly the PK which was around the top of the league for most of the season, dropped quite a bit after trading those 2, not quite as replaceable as you make them sound, and who are the replacements again Bean, Miromanov, Bahl?   Yeah this team is not going to miss a beat, we got Kadri who wins games by himself

[jjgallow]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I kind of look at Toronto and Edmonton. Matthews and Tavares (maybe too long in the tooth NOW), McDavid and Draisaitl. You really couldn't ask for better.

The price is so high that they really struggle to balance out a roster.

I'd LOVE Hischier and Hughes all day long, but where is that getting me?

Where is the happy medium?

 

Ha.   imho, McDavid and Draisaitl are even long in the tooth for what they do.  Or they will be in next 2 years.

 

 

I'd rather have Makar, and that's where all the cups are.   More importantly i'd rather have Makar in his prime, on ELC.    And Colorado did, and it went well.

 

You need a few of your superstars on ELC and in their prime early to make it work.    And at least one of them has to be a defenseman.

 

That's possible in this rebuild, because Calgary's making another Makar in 2027.

 

 

To keep it going after a rebuild, you have to draft really freaking well.  But we'll get there.     Edmonton won't.

 

 

I dunno what it is with Calgary and generational defencemen, but we really wanna be there in 2027, that's when to cash in for the new arena.    And then yeah, multiple cups possible.        When I brought up Conor Bedard, I brought him up because I see him as slightly underneath the Edmonton/Toronto examples (which are all cupless), and likely more affordable.  You want a Great 1st line center.      But in terms of having the best player in the NHL, you want a defenceman.  Preferably on ELC lol

[jjgallow]

 

What I should have said, is,  D cups are better than C cups

[robrob74]

43 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I kind of look at Toronto and Edmonton. Matthews and Tavares (maybe too long in the tooth NOW), McDavid and Draisaitl. You really couldn't ask for better.

The price is so high that they really struggle to balance out a roster.

I'd LOVE Hischier and Hughes all day long, but where is that getting me?

Where is the happy medium?

I really think the difference is the way the roster filled out. You'd expect McDavid to win regardless, but I see similarities in Pittsburgh when Crosby and Malkin were prime, but difference is they were able to build around them. #1C Is not going to win chips alone but they also help dominate. 
 

Crosby is or was better than McDavid only because of the full package. 
 

Toronto has too much in Marner, Tavares, and Matthews. Three guys and over 1/3 of the cap. It's ok if you can build around them, but that is hard and BT will use all the picks to try and do that because they failed to pick depth when they were on ELC and then picked up Tavares to expedite things 

 

the bulls are more about patience and of we drafted solid nhlers this year, getting elite out near elite in the next few years, they should mature close to the same time. 
 

id be happy H&H too. But they were also drafted high, a #1 and #4 and if you add the other H another #1z

[conundrumed]

15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

What I should have said, is,  D cups are better than C cups

Yeah, but you can fake that. lol

[robrob74]

42 minutes ago, cberg said:

You need a great team.  Offence can come from many places.  If a superstar or generational player demands too much salary, the team likely suffers.  It is a balancing act.  As for the Flames, Backlund and Kadri are short term and besides that we hope to develop 2+ internally.  Flames focus definitely needs to be on top level C in the next couple of years.

I'm with many who think all four lines need to be quality. 
Not to bring back the past too much but I think Bennett's last year was the year to try him with Tkachuk. The flames went all in on Dube instead, which was a mistake and feelings got hurt. 
 

But imagining, 

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm

Tkachuk, Bennett 

Backlund, Coleman

 

 allow Monahan to heal. Throw him in with one of the top two lines as a W/C to double duty on one of them. 
 

We were a year too early in not trying to be bold yet. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah, but you can fake that. lol

 

That escalated quickly.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I kind of look at Toronto and Edmonton. Matthews and Tavares (maybe too long in the tooth NOW), McDavid and Draisaitl. You really couldn't ask for better.

The price is so high that they really struggle to balance out a roster.

I'd LOVE Hischier and Hughes all day long, but where is that getting me?

Where is the happy medium?

 

I think this part is less a discussion about positional value and more about roster construction. If the point is build centers at all cost no I would not agree with that you for sure need a balance. I think the focus on centers is because the number 1 model for a center is IMO the hardest position in hockey to find and the talent drop down from those number 1 centers down to the next line of very good is bigger than say the drop for other positions. Doesn't mean you plow all your resources into finding it because there's an opportunity argument there too as not everyone is going to get equal opportunity to acquire one. 

 

I also think the idea of high priced centers making it a struggle to balance out your roster is a cop out for bad GMing. Oilers didn't have to pay Nurse 9 and instead could have pursued FA options costing less and likely giving them that balance. They didn't have to draft Yamamotto over Jason Robertson. They didn't have to give up a 1st and a 2nd for Griffen Reinhart, where they could have drafted the likes of Aho, Brandon Carlo, Erik Cernak, Kyle Conner etc.  

No one made Shannahan hire Dubas and lose Mark Hunter (which tanked their draft record) nor did anyone make him trade Kadri for Tyson Barrie or think that Matt Murry was going to upgrade his goaltending. 

 

I'm not a believer you get into roster problems by paying star talent, you get there by your failures to support them and those are normally highlighted by mistakes. So I don't buy it when the feedback is "well were paying too much to these guys so it's hard". 

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think this part is less a discussion about positional value and more about roster construction. If the point is build centers at all cost no I would not agree with that you for sure need a balance. I think the focus on centers is because the number 1 model for a center is IMO the hardest position in hockey to find and the talent drop down from those number 1 centers down to the next line of very good is bigger than say the drop for other positions. Doesn't mean you plow all your resources into finding it because there's an opportunity argument there too as not everyone is going to get equal opportunity to acquire one. 

 

I also think the idea of high priced centers making it a struggle to balance out your roster is a cop out for bad GMing. Oilers didn't have to pay Nurse 9 and instead could have pursued FA options costing less and likely giving them that balance. They didn't have to draft Yamamotto over Jason Robertson. They didn't have to give up a 1st and a 2nd for Griffen Reinhart, where they could have drafted the likes of Aho, Brandon Carlo, Erik Cernak, Kyle Conner etc.  

No one made Shannahan hire Dubas and lose Mark Hunter (which tanked their draft record) nor did anyone make him trade Kadri for Tyson Barrie or think that Matt Murry was going to upgrade his goaltending. 

 

I'm not a believer you get into roster problems by paying star talent, you get there by your failures to support them and those are normally highlighted by mistakes. So I don't buy it when the feedback is "well were paying too much to these guys so it's hard". 

 

It's not so much that one McDavid is gonna kill your cap.  It's McD + Drai that makes it tough.  Like TO, they have three players north or close to $10M.  Drai will cost them a ton next year.  Nurse just makes it look so bad.  Leafs have 4.  

 

Overall, 2 GM's have made their teams need to find creative ways to ice a team.  Sign players nobody else would touch.  Wait for bought out players.  Pay for guys trying to get back to their former glory or just plain overpaying for lesser talent.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, sak22 said:

Think you need to rewatch last season.  Markstrom was considered the MVP of the team prior to the trade deadline his play alone won plenty of games.  You can't tell by looking at the overall stats but from December to the deadline he was at a Vezina level.  Team hit the tanks after trading Hanifin and Tanev, mainly the PK which was around the top of the league for most of the season, dropped quite a bit after trading those 2, not quite as replaceable as you make them sound, and who are the replacements again Bean, Miromanov, Bahl?   Yeah this team is not going to miss a beat, we got Kadri who wins games by himself

 

Trues with Markstrom but what I'm getting at is Wolf is not far from Markstrom.  There will be a drop off between last season and this coming season but not by a margin many think.  Wolf is an emerging star of his own.

 

But ya, I'm in favour of moving Kadri but it's hard since he would only waive for a limited number of teams and that team needs to have the cap space.

[The_People1]

A waaay too early look... But some good Centers in the top 6.  We just have to get there.