2025 NHL Draft

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's not so much that one McDavid is gonna kill your cap.  It's McD + Drai that makes it tough.  Like TO, they have three players north or close to $10M.  Drai will cost them a ton next year.  Nurse just makes it look so bad.  Leafs have 4.  

 

Overall, 2 GM's have made their teams need to find creative ways to ice a team.  Sign players nobody else would touch.  Wait for bought out players.  Pay for guys trying to get back to their former glory or just plain overpaying for lesser talent.

 

 

I still don't buy it. It forces you into different decision making sure but that's the GM's job to make those, sometimes harder, decisions. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I still don't buy it. It forces you into different decision making sure but that's the GM's job to make those, sometimes harder, decisions. 

 

Agreed.  It's not that McD and Draisaitl kills your cap, it's a GM's job to find value elsewhere.

 

McD and Draisaitl are exactly the 1/2 punch you want down the middle.

 

If you are going to have a "core 4" then let it be two stud Cs, one stud D, and one stud G.

 

The Oilers have simply wasted the best years of McDavid and Draisaitl by spending too much on below average support players and bad goaltending.

 

It would be a dream to get McKenna, Misa, Parekh, and Wolf all pan out as a core 4.  That's a solid foundation for a Cup contender.

[conundrumed]

33 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.  It's not that McD and Draisaitl kills your cap, it's a GM's job to find value elsewhere.

 

McD and Draisaitl are exactly the 1/2 punch you want down the middle.

 

If you are going to have a "core 4" then let it be two stud Cs, one stud D, and one stud G.

 

The Oilers have simply wasted the best years of McDavid and Draisaitl by spending too much on below average support players and bad goaltending.

 

It would be a dream to get McKenna, Misa, Parekh, and Wolf all pan out as a core 4.  That's a solid foundation for a Cup contender.

Every mistake becomes further magnified, though. The Campbell deal was a disaster, but not until it became one. Nurse became one too. Imagine if *Buster Hyman* busted. Where would they be?

*used without permission, but with gratitude to @MikeOxlong

I love stealing your witticisms. lol

But what if Hyman busted?

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I think this part is less a discussion about positional value and more about roster construction. If the point is build centers at all cost no I would not agree with that you for sure need a balance. I think the focus on centers is because the number 1 model for a center is IMO the hardest position in hockey to find and the talent drop down from those number 1 centers down to the next line of very good is bigger than say the drop for other positions. Doesn't mean you plow all your resources into finding it because there's an opportunity argument there too as not everyone is going to get equal opportunity to acquire one. 

 

I also think the idea of high priced centers making it a struggle to balance out your roster is a cop out for bad GMing. Oilers didn't have to pay Nurse 9 and instead could have pursued FA options costing less and likely giving them that balance. They didn't have to draft Yamamotto over Jason Robertson. They didn't have to give up a 1st and a 2nd for Griffen Reinhart, where they could have drafted the likes of Aho, Brandon Carlo, Erik Cernak, Kyle Conner etc.  

No one made Shannahan hire Dubas and lose Mark Hunter (which tanked their draft record) nor did anyone make him trade Kadri for Tyson Barrie or think that Matt Murry was going to upgrade his goaltending. 

 

I'm not a believer you get into roster problems by paying star talent, you get there by your failures to support them and those are normally highlighted by mistakes. So I don't buy it when the feedback is "well were paying too much to these guys so it's hard". 

that makes a lot of sense. Think it is something I mentioned was failure to build around them and then having to overpay to try fill holes. It is why I hope we can build and find depth now, and try to get away from filling those holes by overpaying when the top 3-6 players arrive.

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

that makes a lot of sense. Think it is something I mentioned was failure to build around them and then having to overpay to try fill holes. It is why I hope we can build and find depth now, and try to get away from filling those holes by overpaying when the top 3-6 players arrive.

Hathaway and Lomberg types? I wish we'd developed guys like that...;/

[conundrumed]

Quite the pace against Sweden right now. Damn. Who yields first and goes D posture?

[Thebrewcrew]

I think it's pretty clear that Sweden is the biggest threat to Canada. Czechia is quite good as well.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's not so much that one McDavid is gonna kill your cap.  It's McD + Drai that makes it tough.  Like TO, they have three players north or close to $10M.  Drai will cost them a ton next year.  Nurse just makes it look so bad.  Leafs have 4.  

 

Overall, 2 GM's have made their teams need to find creative ways to ice a team.  Sign players nobody else would touch.  Wait for bought out players.  Pay for guys trying to get back to their former glory or just plain overpaying for lesser talent.

I also think overpaying Nurse is really what does it. What is Nurse actually worth? He probably should have been a $4-$5m, that is a few players extra depending on the quality of player.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Hathaway and Lomberg types? I wish we'd developed guys like that...;/

yup! I was the (one of) only one upset we lost Hathaway. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

that makes a lot of sense. Think it is something I mentioned was failure to build around them and then having to overpay to try fill holes. It is why I hope we can build and find depth now, and try to get away from filling those holes by overpaying when the top 3-6 players arrive.

 

100%... also not drafting enough RHS was a big problem.  Caused us to reach for Troy Brouwer... and then James Neal... We really need Coronato to not bust.  Hopefully Gridin pans out too (LHS RW).  Of course Parekh, Brzus, and Mews.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Quite the pace against Sweden right now. Damn. Who yields first and goes D posture?

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think it's pretty clear that Sweden is the biggest threat to Canada. Czechia is quite good as well.

 

Is Anton Frondell the real deal?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I also think overpaying Nurse is really what does it. What is Nurse actually worth? He probably should have been a $4-$5m, that is a few players extra depending on the quality of player.

 

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

yup! I was the (one of) only one upset we lost Hathaway. 

 

So, if you are one of th highest scoring D in the league because you get to play of a PP with the PP leaders of the league, that makes you think you are worth $9M.  Once they dropped him from the PP that role was replaced by the soon to make $10M one trick pony Douche-bomb.

 

You have two guys that can score when fed the puck.  They don't stop goals that much.  ANd they usually have to devote their best actual defense playing D to baby sit them.  Result is two guys worth around $4M making 9+.  Nurse is now the goat.  

 

Hathaway was offered more term and money than he would have gotten in CGY.  It happens.  BT was reasonable in giving shorter term contract to allow player to increase their value, so 4 years wasn't happening.  Think about it though.  We have two players from the 18/19 season where Gaudreau had 99 points.  We signed the third from that original team.  

[conundrumed]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is Anton Frondell the real deal?

He's very good. Got tired of watching him win every important draw. It was a fantastic game. TSN replays it constantly.

[conundrumed]

17 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.  It's not that McD and Draisaitl kills your cap, it's a GM's job to find value elsewhere.

 

McD and Draisaitl are exactly the 1/2 punch you want down the middle.

 

If you are going to have a "core 4" then let it be two stud Cs, one stud D, and one stud G.

 

The Oilers have simply wasted the best years of McDavid and Draisaitl by spending too much on below average support players and bad goaltending.

 

It would be a dream to get McKenna, Misa, Parekh, and Wolf all pan out as a core 4.  That's a solid foundation for a Cup contender.

I feel like a lot of people are really overlooking Aydar Suniev.

He's developing, and I can really see the path that he'll be a solid power forward from either side. He's been really noticeable in the handful of UMass games I watched. He's pretty raw, meaning he has yet to refine a really nice toolbox, but you can sure see it working out.

I'm as excited about him as any of our prospects.

He struggled some last year, I felt like he was trying to take it upon himself too often. Not being a hog, just too aggressive in situations. I think he'll have a big year this season.

He really just has to learn when it matters and when it doesn't. He kind of tries to turn too much into opportunity, leading to mistakes. Cliché, I know, but you have to let the game come to you. Pick your spots to force it.

I think he was a fantastic pick.

[cberg]

18 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.  It's not that McD and Draisaitl kills your cap, it's a GM's job to find value elsewhere.

 

McD and Draisaitl are exactly the 1/2 punch you want down the middle.

 

If you are going to have a "core 4" then let it be two stud Cs, one stud D, and one stud G.

 

The Oilers have simply wasted the best years of McDavid and Draisaitl by spending too much on below average support players and bad goaltending.

 

It would be a dream to get McKenna, Misa, Parekh, and Wolf all pan out as a core 4.  That's a solid foundation for a Cup contender.

In the playoffs most great teams can largely neutralize the other teams 1st and 2nd lines and it becomes a special teams and bottom 6 battle, or a goalie stealing multiple games.  As much as getting top5 picks the next couple years is important, the 2024 draft may ultimately be the most important of all. If the Flames can develop 5+ NHLers from this draft, along with multiple players brought in via trade they will be well-positioned for success down the road.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I feel like a lot of people are really overlooking Aydar Suniev.

He's developing, and I can really see the path that he'll be a solid power forward from either side. He's been really noticeable in the handful of UMass games I watched. He's pretty raw, meaning he has yet to refine a really nice toolbox, but you can sure see it working out.

I'm as excited about him as any of our prospects.

He struggled some last year, I felt like he was trying to take it upon himself too often. Not being a hog, just too aggressive in situations. I think he'll have a big year this season.

He really just has to learn when it matters and when it doesn't. He kind of tries to turn too much into opportunity, leading to mistakes. Cliché, I know, but you have to let the game come to you. Pick your spots to force it.

I think he was a fantastic pick.

 

I haven't been following.  But Flames have a handful of potential gems in the system.  They can't all pan out but it's something to hope for.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cberg said:

In the playoffs most great teams can largely neutralize the other teams 1st and 2nd lines and it becomes a special teams and bottom 6 battle, or a goalie stealing multiple games.  As much as getting top5 picks the next couple years is important, the 2024 draft may ultimately be the most important of all. If the Flames can develop 5+ NHLers from this draft, along with multiple players brought in via trade they will be well-positioned for success down the road.

 

For sures, the bottom 6 and bottom pairing D is key.  Can't have passengers.  We will get picked apart in a seven game series.

 

But the rebuild honestly just started.  Best to bottom out hard for the 2025 and 2026 drafts.  Then 2030, we will win everything and we will be happy.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I feel like a lot of people are really overlooking Aydar Suniev.

He's developing, and I can really see the path that he'll be a solid power forward from either side. He's been really noticeable in the handful of UMass games I watched. He's pretty raw, meaning he has yet to refine a really nice toolbox, but you can sure see it working out.

I'm as excited about him as any of our prospects.

He struggled some last year, I felt like he was trying to take it upon himself too often. Not being a hog, just too aggressive in situations. I think he'll have a big year this season.

He really just has to learn when it matters and when it doesn't. He kind of tries to turn too much into opportunity, leading to mistakes. Cliché, I know, but you have to let the game come to you. Pick your spots to force it.

I think he was a fantastic pick.

I'm definitely overlooking many! Waiting to see how they all turn out. But eagerly optimistic.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, cberg said:

In the playoffs most great teams can largely neutralize the other teams 1st and 2nd lines and it becomes a special teams and bottom 6 battle, or a goalie stealing multiple games.  As much as getting top5 picks the next couple years is important, the 2024 draft may ultimately be the most important of all. If the Flames can develop 5+ NHLers from this draft, along with multiple players brought in via trade they will be well-positioned for success down the road.

that was the Flames problems over the years. They had decent talent with Johnny, Monny, Tkachuk, Lindholm, but the depth of the roster had holes and were filled with guys who could only play 2-4 min per night. Its

Why some of us would say you can't just fill those roles as easy as some think. While it is possible to find good role players, the ones that win cups are on teams fully ready to win cups. 

[Thebrewcrew]

23 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is Anton Frondell the real deal?

It's such a shame he's not at this tournament. I think he starts the season as a top 3 pick. Can he maintain that? Will be fun to track.

 

Schaeffer is likely the player at this years tournament that's picked the highest in 2025.

 

 

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

It's such a shame he's not at this tournament. I think he starts the season as a top 3 pick. Can he maintain that? Will be fun to track.

 

Schaeffer is likely the player at this years tournament that's picked the highest in 2025.

 

 

Oof, my bad, I was thinking of Gustav Hillstrom that was dominating the dot.

[travel_dude]

16 hours ago, robrob74 said:

that was the Flames problems over the years. They had decent talent with Johnny, Monny, Tkachuk, Lindholm, but the depth of the roster had holes and were filled with guys who could only play 2-4 min per night. Its

Why some of us would say you can't just fill those roles as easy as some think. While it is possible to find good role players, the ones that win cups are on teams fully ready to win cups. 

 

Well maybe it was overplay certain lines expecting them to carry the teams, not a problem with depth.  The years we lost to COL, DAL and EDM were some of the best teams in the league for overall depth.  One common theme was we didn't get great goaltending when we needed it.  You have to be able to win 3-2 or 2-1 in the playoffs.  We did well in the 1st round against Dallas, but crapped out against EDM.  We crapped out against Dallas in the weird season.  Elliott gave up a critical game and we didn't pull him before the bleeding was out of control.  COL we got lit up in the final 4 games of the playoffs.  

[robrob74]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well maybe it was overplay certain lines expecting them to carry the teams, not a problem with depth.  The years we lost to COL, DAL and EDM were some of the best teams in the league for overall depth.  One common theme was we didn't get great goaltending when we needed it.  You have to be able to win 3-2 or 2-1 in the playoffs.  We did well in the 1st round against Dallas, but crapped out against EDM.  We crapped out against Dallas in the weird season.  Elliott gave up a critical game and we didn't pull him before the bleeding was out of control.  COL we got lit up in the final 4 games of the playoffs.  

Those were teams that couldn't handle the speed of the other team. They got caved when other teams pressured. They couldn't handle speed and pressure. It was nearly the whole team that couldn't handle it.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Those were teams that couldn't handle the speed of the other team. They got caved when other teams pressured. They couldn't handle speed and pressure. It was nearly the whole team that couldn't handle it.

 

I saw other issues.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Those were teams that couldn't handle the speed of the other team. They got caved when other teams pressured. They couldn't handle speed and pressure. It was nearly the whole team that couldn't handle it.

I don't know if I'd say it is all other teams speed, I think dating back to the Colorado series Mackinnon was a matchup nightmare that series and Peters had no answer.  Dallas I didn't find was a faster team, and honestly I think the team they beat in 2022 was better than the team they lost to in 2020.  I think the differences were Sutter being better than Ward, and Heiskenen was on another level that entire playoffs, but while Sutter was a positive difference vs. Dallas he was a negative against Edmonton as the top line and pairing was struggling against McDavid whereas the Backlund line was a solid matchup against them, also I guess didn't help that Tanev was also out most that series.  But a common theme is other teams having elite talent playing elite levels, the Flames only had really good talent who never really took over a series.