In with the new.

[tmac70]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Yep I think we'll have a few graduates that will turn a head or 2..

I will say I have high hopes for Coronato and Pelletier..

Mange gone opens up the perfect landing spot for Coronato beside Backs and Coleman.

I had high hopes for Pelletier last year knowing hed spent his summer training with Huberdeau..and hes done it again (with Mantha too) ..

Schwindt is a 50-50 to me .. he has to come in and grab a spot ..no reason he can't grab that 4th line center spot but it's up to him to do it .. 

 

 

I watched wrangler games down the stretch 2 seasons ago and will admit Zary looked like he was not NHL ready and he made a huge jump last season.. someone will do it this year too 

The weird thing with Zary and Pospisil was in the A they looked good but were great in the NHL. The A is not as structured as the big show. What I noticed when they came up I think they both acknowledged fairly quickly that although it is more structured they had more time and space. 

[The_People1]

On 7/11/2024 at 4:35 PM, tmac70 said:

 You just validated that timing, accurate projections, no major injuries, construction, coaching, team chemistry, good drafting, and development all have to come in alignment for any of this to work.  There are so many ways to get a competitive team, FLA just won because it traded well and signed some good low-cash UFAs. Barkov is a stud, but the Coilers have 2 of the proposed best players in the game and have won Satoshi Nakamoto.

 

You still need vets and guys that know what it takes to win. ZIto saw a key element that was missing on that roster, Chucky. He also must have realized that Weegar and Hubie are good in season guys but will never carry you to the end. With them out and Chucky in they have been to the finals and won. 

 

We precisely have to do everything right to win the Cup... with some luck sprinkled in, yes.  FLA pretty much did it.  They tanked hardcore, and then did everything right all the way to the promised land.  Had good luck with no major injuries, etc.  Let's do that too.

[The_People1]

On 7/11/2024 at 5:11 PM, phoenix66 said:

Have to keep in mind these drafted kids are minimum 2 years away .realistically 3 or more for most of them .

Filling a spot with a kid from the A that just isn't ready yet does them more harm than  good . So, you sign older players to play in those spots ..raise your compete level ..increase your playoff odds too. 

The later they are fighting in the season just teaches them what it takes ..drives them harder .. 

 

"Teaches them"... Teach who?  The vets we signed?  The new core that we want to develop hasn't even been drafted yet.  Tankasaurus first.  After that, do what you are saying.  Time it properly.

[conundrumed]

Anyone think Vladar will come in this year and play with an extreme sense of opportunity and purpose?

I think many may be counting him out, but that's a wildcard for me.

[phoenix66]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

"Teaches them"... Teach who?  The vets we signed?  The new core that we want to develop hasn't even been drafted yet.  Tankasaurus first.  After that, do what you are saying.  Time it properly.

The ones you already have .

It's already begun.. the Zary's etc learn the ropes from guys like Kadri, Coleman..  Weegar and Anderson will have their work cut out for them this season..  learn the habits and what it takes so when the next wave enters the role continues with them .. 

You can't just " turn it on" ..  that's why tanking doesn't work 

[phoenix66]

55 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Anyone think Vladar will come in this year and play with an extreme sense of opportunity and purpose?

I think many may be counting him out, but that's a wildcard for me.

I do .. I can see a handful of possible wildcards this year . It's his first real opportunity to be healthy and grab the staters net . Contract year.. and we have seen what he can do in small flashes so no reason he can't step it up 

[conundrumed]

28 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I do .. I can see a handful of possible wildcards this year . It's his first real opportunity to be healthy and grab the staters net . Contract year.. and we have seen what he can do in small flashes so no reason he can't step it up 

It'll be one to keep an eye on as everyone craves Wolf. How long was Vladar playing while requiring hip surgery? Was it a huge impact on his play? The goalie staff loved him, is why we acquired him (draft lottery-influenced, of course). Will he be the next David Rittich, or is he closer to Swayman than we think, atm?

So many questions. lol

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It'll be one to keep an eye on as everyone craves Wolf. How long was Vladar playing while requiring hip surgery? Was it a huge impact on his play? The goalie staff loved him, is why we acquired him (draft lottery-influenced, of course). Will he be the next David Rittich, or is he closer to Swayman than we think, atm?

So many questions. lol

on Flames Talk on the Fan yesterday, they asked same question. The one not Pat had said something along the lines that, I think they said after 2023/2024 season, Vladar turned down going to the Worlds due to a nagging injury he sustained that season. They estimated the time back to when he started playing poorly as probable onset. While not completely confirmed as it's their opinions, the one thing they said was definite was he turned down the Worlds due to an injury...

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

The ones you already have .

It's already begun.. the Zary's etc learn the ropes from guys like Kadri, Coleman..  Weegar and Anderson will have their work cut out for them this season..  learn the habits and what it takes so when the next wave enters the role continues with them .. 

You can't just " turn it on" ..  that's why tanking doesn't work 

 

Yes you can turn it on later.  No one said it's easy but FLA did it.  EDM came 1-goal away from winning it all.  It can turn... It takes time and it's not easy.  Not to mention, rebuild rosters turn over nearly 95% of the roster by the time they exit their rebuild and start competing.  No one from the losing tradition carries over.  Lots of time to bring on the vets later.

 

Our saviors are Parekh and next year's top 3 pick.  Maybe Michael Misa.  And maybe next next year's top 3 pick also.  But we need to get there first.  Zary is good but complementary.

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes you can turn it on later.  No one said it's easy but FLA did it.  EDM came 1-goal away from winning it all.  It can turn... It takes time and it's not easy.  Not to mention, rebuild rosters turn over nearly 95% of the roster by the time they exit their rebuild and start competing.  No one from the losing tradition carries over.  Lots of time to bring on the vets later.

 

Our saviors are Parekh and next year's top 3 pick.  Maybe Michael Misa.  And maybe next next year's top 3 pick also.  But we need to get there first.  Zary is good but complementary.

 

I hope we pick top5. But the other thing is, getting young players that have that kind of drive. The Avs drafted McKinnon and had Duchene already. But their fortunes changed getting rid of players who didn't have the drive. 
 

I think tanking is one thing, the other is making sure you draft competitive players. By the time the drafted players are in their prime, the tanks should already have completed. It's when you don't fill the roster with depth in the draft. Thats what I believe. 
 

I like Conroy's approach; sounds like he wants to make sure the team focuses on drafting AND proper development. Add in guys to compete.

[phoenix66]

36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes you can turn it on later.  No one said it's easy but FLA did it.  EDM came 1-goal away from winning it all.  It can turn... It takes time and it's not easy.  Not to mention, rebuild rosters turn over nearly 95% of the roster by the time they exit their rebuild and start competing.  No one from the losing tradition carries over.  Lots of time to bring on the vets later.

 

Our saviors are Parekh and next year's top 3 pick.  Maybe Michael Misa.  And maybe next next year's top 3 pick also.  But we need to get there first.  Zary is good but complementary.

Please ..neither of those teams turned it on.. In fact Edmonton is the perfect example of why it doesn't work..

They were trying to win from the day Taylor Hall hit the ice .. locked up the "core" with 6x6 contracts .. offer sheeted Dustin Penner .. "this is the year " year after year .. first overall pick after first overall pick.. 

It's ok ..were young.. was all their fans heard ..  then it took getting the best player on the planet and 9 more years of futility to finally get a run.. no.. they were just bad ..  If they had insulated that original core with some real savvy vets and better coaching and management they'd have a cup or 2 by now ..

 

Florida was bad until new managent took over and built a team instead of a country club .. won a presidents trophy and added more ...  They had half the roster of Buffalo who never got it done. Amazing what a good "team" environment can do ..

 

At no point should a team ever be told or believe that losing is "ok" ..or "expected " .. regardless of the vision you're trying to sell them ..and they don't learn it on their own .. they have to be shown what it takes..and the only way to do that is surround them with players that know that ..

 

Look , I can't stand the guy .. .. but they didn't sign Corey Perry for his high level of skill he still he has .. they signed him to show what it takes .. where that extra gear is .. he may have lost 4/5 of the last finals but fact is he's been to 4/5 last Stanley Cup finals for a reason.. he played a hand in that ..not by himself but he was a factor just being there and setting an example 

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Please ..neither of those teams turned it on.. In fact Edmonton is the perfect example of why it doesn't work..

They were trying to win from the day Taylor Hall hit the ice .. locked up the "core" with 6x6 contracts .. offer sheeted Dustin Penner .. "this is the year " year after year .. first overall pick after first overall pick.. 

It's ok ..were young.. was all their fans heard ..  then it took getting the best player on the planet and 9 more years of futility to finally get a run.. no.. they were just bad ..  If they had insulated that original core with some real savvy vets and better coaching and management they'd have a cup or 2 by now ..

 

Florida was bad until new managent took over and built a team instead of a country club .. won a presidents trophy and added more ...  They had half the roster of Buffalo who never got it done. Amazing what a good "team" environment can do ..

 

At no point should a team ever be told or believe that losing is "ok" ..or "expected " .. regardless of the vision you're trying to sell them ..and they don't learn it on their own .. they have to be shown what it takes..and the only way to do that is surround them with players that know that ..

 

Look , I can't stand the guy .. .. but they didn't sign Corey Perry for his high level of skill he still he has .. they signed him to show what it takes .. where that extra gear is .. he may have lost 4/5 of the last finals but fact is he's been to 4/5 last Stanley Cup finals for a reason.. he played a hand in that ..not by himself but he was a factor just being there and setting an example 

 

I hate the Oilers example. When people refer to them it's like saying they think we are the Oilers when that just isn't true. 
 

[sak22]

36 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

Look , I can't stand the guy .. .. but they didn't sign Corey Perry for his high level of skill he still he has .. they signed him to show what it takes .. where that extra gear is .. he may have lost 4/5 of the last finals but fact is he's been to 4/5 last Stanley Cup finals for a reason.. he played a hand in that ..not by himself but he was a factor just being there and setting an example 

I think very much overstated his importance to each of them.  I think you can easily subtract him from all 4 teams and they still do what they did, whereas you take away Heiskenen from Dallas, Price from Montreal, Vasi, Hedman or Kuch from Tampa or McDavid from Edmonton and Perry isn't even winning a round.  The Corey Perry effect is just pure coincidence and has only changed the narrative that he was a bit of a playoff choke when he and Getzlaf were "the guys" in Anaheim.  

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes you can turn it on later.  No one said it's easy but FLA did it.  EDM came 1-goal away from winning it all.  It can turn... It takes time and it's not easy.  Not to mention, rebuild rosters turn over nearly 95% of the roster by the time they exit their rebuild and start competing.  No one from the losing tradition carries over.  Lots of time to bring on the vets later.

 

Our saviors are Parekh and next year's top 3 pick.  Maybe Michael Misa.  And maybe next next year's top 3 pick also.  But we need to get there first.  Zary is good but complementary.

 

I am not Vegas, so I am not buying into EDM having the highest odds of winning the cup.  They got 12 wins leading up to the SCF.  Flip a couple of teams in other series and perhaps you have different results.  EDM is no closer to winning it all than when they beat us in the 2nd round.  

[tmac70]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I hate the Oilers example. When people refer to them it's like saying they think we are the Oilers when that just isn't true. 
 

I see it differently I think he is stating that tanking isn't always the best route. I think everyone is putting this as a calculated move by Conroy, but it's not. Hanfin, Lindholm, and Tanev were offered contracts......If they sign what would be the battle cries? Currently, we are in a position not by design but by process of elimination. What Conroy has done is nothing more than what he was presented. I can see this club in a possible 7-12 this year, but that's it. I will not believe this trends for 5-6 years. They will stockpile this draft again but that will be the end of it. 

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I am not Vegas, so I am not buying into EDM having the highest odds of winning the cup.  They got 12 wins leading up to the SCF.  Flip a couple of teams in other series and perhaps you have different results.  EDM is no closer to winning it all than when they beat us in the 2nd round.  

The Coilewrs had the easiest route to the final. If not for some poor offense from VAN, they don't make it out of the 2nd round. Dallas had the harder route and were gassed after game 4 of the WCF

[robrob74]

34 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I see it differently I think he is stating that tanking isn't always the best route. I think everyone is putting this as a calculated move by Conroy, but it's not. Hanfin, Lindholm, and Tanev were offered contracts......If they sign what would be the battle cries? Currently, we are in a position not by design but by process of elimination. What Conroy has done is nothing more than what he was presented. I can see this club in a possible 7-12 this year, but that's it. I will not believe this trends for 5-6 years. They will stockpile this draft again but that will be the end of it. 

ya, but that's also assuming we don't hit on other draft picks on top of the first rounders, and it is known now the Flames are a decent drafting team. 
 

im with you. I do think the same, I don't see a roster that is drafting top 5 but the 7-12. It also depends on injuries. Even good teams have had injuries and sank fast, like the Tampa year they drafted Hedman. Didn't they already have a decent team then? 
 

I don't see them tanking, and I don't see us a top5 draft team. Maybe 6-12 in the next two drafts. But they need to find some good ones. 
 

 

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The Coilewrs had the easiest route to the final. If not for some poor offense from VAN, they don't make it out of the 2nd round. Dallas had the harder route and were gassed after game 4 of the WCF

 

Yes, that is exactly what I was saying in a round about way.  The VAN series was weird.  One game the Nucks tie it up with less than 2 minutes, then proceed to give up the GWG with less than 40 seconds.  Another game the Oilers give up the GWG with less than 40 seconds left.  No Demko.  Still pushed the OIlers to brink of elimination.  The Kings series was a joke; they shouldn't have made 3rd in the Pacific.

 

Any way, the Oilers can claim victory in UFA day.  Connor Brown and Perry.  Skinner and Arvidsson.  And the solution to their defense is the worse Brown, the other Carrick, Stecher.  More offense, less effective D and they have to trade Ceci to make it work.

[conundrumed]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Maybe Michael Misa

Porter Martone after watching him and Luke Misa run rampant with Brampton this year?

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Porter Martone after watching him and Luke Misa run rampant with Brampton this year?

 

 

Calgary is gonna get a really

good book on Martone and Michael Misa this year, just by watching their own drafted prospects. Really nice when it works out that way.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Porter Martone after watching him and Luke Misa run rampant with Brampton this year?

 

 

 

What's the story on the team re-name?

Formerly Misses Sauga, now Brampton?

 

 

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What's the story on the team re-name?

Formerly Misses Sauga, now Brampton?

 

 

Mississauga is fantastic at losing their OHL teams.

[The_People1]

On 7/13/2024 at 1:49 PM, phoenix66 said:

Please ..neither of those teams turned it on.. In fact Edmonton is the perfect example of why it doesn't work..

 

Look , I can't stand the guy .. .. but they didn't sign Corey Perry for his high level of skill he still he has .. they signed him to show what it takes .. where that extra gear is .. he may have lost 4/5 of the last finals but fact is he's been to 4/5 last Stanley Cup finals for a reason.. he played a hand in that ..not by himself but he was a factor just being there and setting an example 

 

Listen to yourself.  "Edmonton is proof you cannot turn it on... Edmonton signed Perry to help turn it on and it worked."

 

What?

 

Fact is both EDM and FLA turned it on.  EDM figured it out after hiring Knoblauch.  Everyone played team defense and McDavid/Draisaitl put up 2-points per game.  And they learned to win games.

 

BUF, OTT, etc haven't figured it out yet.  But they keep trading and signing the wrong bottom six veteran depth guys.  They need Perry.  Flames can target a Perry too... After first spending some time in the basement, of course.

[The_People1]

On 7/14/2024 at 5:03 AM, conundrumed said:

Porter Martone after watching him and Luke Misa run rampant with Brampton this year?

 

 

 

I'd prefer we draft a Center but will keep an eye on Martone.  RHS RW with size.  We can never have enough of those.

 

Next year's projected top 6/7 are all exciting in their own ways.  As the Flames roster currently stands, I'm feeling good we will be picking top 5.  Many publications are already predicting the Flames will be top 3 worse team so we shall see how it all plays out.

[sak22]

42 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Listen to yourself.  "Edmonton is proof you cannot turn it on... Edmonton signed Perry to help turn it on and it worked."

 

What?

 

Fact is both EDM and FLA turned it on.  EDM figured it out after hiring Knoblauch.  Everyone played team defense and McDavid/Draisaitl put up 2-points per game.  And they learned to win games.

 

BUF, OTT, etc haven't figured it out yet.  But they keep trading and signing the wrong bottom six veteran depth guys.  They need Perry.  Flames can target a Perry too... After first spending some time in the basement, of course.

What?

Buffalo's problem was they scored 52 less goals this year.  Corey Perry ain't fixing that.  Ottawa couldn't keep the puck out of their own net.  Corey Perry ain't fixing that.  Corey Perry isn't the solution he's just the loser version of Pat Maroon.

 

And neither team "turned it on" they have been playoff teams who've won rounds the previous 2 years.