Spitballing, and I totally realize that I’m very late to the game, do I completely apologize for bringing the obvious to light, as I’m sure that many have already brought this topic to light.

[postaudioguy]

So, is there anybody out there who’s just hoping we can somehow pull an Oilers “out of our Hash Rate luck” deal to win the lottery to draft Macklin Celebrini Number One overall and then, somehow, again, pull off a huge trade with New Jersey for their first round pick, which should end up right where we need it to be to draft Tij? Talk about the best draft ever in Flames history! We’ve got a new arena in the works to sweeten the “I know it’s completely legit” lottery odds to work in our favor… Thoughts?

[conundrumed]

These, "ambitions", shall we call them, are reflected in the draft thread. If you'd just read it and post there, you'd find an audience. Zero need to start a new thread on what is already being discussed.

Welcome to the board!

[robrob74]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

These, "ambitions", shall we call them, are reflected in the draft thread. If you'd just read it and post there, you'd find an audience. Zero need to start a new thread on what is already being discussed.

Welcome to the board!

thing about signing up to this site, I think they make newbies create a new topic post as a way to verify they're not a Bot.... maybe.

 

[Sarasti]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

thing about signing up to this site, I think they make newbies create a new topic post as a way to verify they're not a Bot.... maybe.

 

 

This is true.

I had to as well. But I'm pretty sure I never actually saw it in the official message boards.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

thing about signing up to this site, I think they make newbies create a new topic post as a way to verify they're not a Bot.... maybe.

 

Ahh, I had no idea.

So @postaudioguy, no way man. Ain't happening. To offer another perspective on this draft lottery. They could run it 16.5 times, and we'd have a 99% chance of winning once.

The lottery's a joke. But I guessed it prepped us all for unending gambling ads.

Then, if NJ wants to move that pick, there's likely more suitors offering more than we can offer/make us overpay.

This isn't me being negative, it's me being happy with what we have for picks. Also, as a Wings fan, the lottery is like a bad joke. The NHL is pretending that god awful teams are intentionally losing for 1st overall. And apparently fans have bought in. It's an absolute joke. And insulting. It's a made-up story. Nobody's throwing games. Totally a false premise. So I know the lottery itself is heavily audited. Fair enough. Who is setting the odds? More accurately, manipulating the odds, adding rules and lying, "to make it fairer"? No you're not. Fair is 32 to 1 finishers. You're totally making up the, "throwing games" story. You've manipulated drafts in the past. Pittsburgh? Buffalo? Teams on life support. Toronto, your struggling goldenchild?

But now I should trust you? That's altogether unlikely. How about penalties for teams misbehaving? ARI vs Chicago penalties? Purely manipulating situations.

It's in their DNA.

Don't have a lottery. Because I trust you less than a team that's 8-42 at all-star break from "throwing" games.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Ahh, I had no idea.

So @postaudioguy, no way man. Ain't happening. To offer another perspective on this draft lottery. They could run it 16.5 times, and we'd have a 99% chance of winning once.

The lottery's a joke. But I guessed it prepped us all for unending gambling ads.

Then, if NJ wants to move that pick, there's likely more suitors offering more than we can offer/make us overpay.

This isn't me being negative, it's me being happy with what we have for picks. Also, as a Wings fan, the lottery is like a bad joke. The NHL is pretending that god awful teams are intentionally losing for 1st overall. And apparently fans have bought in. It's an absolute joke. And insulting. It's a made-up story. Nobody's throwing games. Totally a false premise. So I know the lottery itself is heavily audited. Fair enough. Who is setting the odds? More accurately, manipulating the odds, adding rules and lying, "to make it fairer"? No you're not. Fair is 32 to 1 finishers. You're totally making up the, "throwing games" story. You've manipulated drafts in the past. Pittsburgh? Buffalo? Teams on life support. Toronto, your struggling goldenchild?

But now I should trust you? That's altogether unlikely. How about penalties for teams misbehaving? ARI vs Chicago penalties? Purely manipulating situations.

It's in their DNA.

Don't have a lottery. Because I trust you less than a team that's 8-42 at all-star break from "throwing" games.

I always thought that a reverse order draft for non-playoff teams (17 - 32) would keep every team fighting till the end. No lottery.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I always thought that a reverse order draft for non-playoff teams (17 - 32) would keep every team fighting till the end. No lottery.

Interesting...can we just make it the bottom 8? Playoff bubble teams likely don't need much, had IR issues or just hit a bad rough patch. A 16th team never needs nor deserves a #1 pick...2020 draft Rangers (37-28-5), while the Wings...(17-49-5). Just brutal. Yeah...they were trying to lose /s. At least they got Raymond at 4 rather than Lafreniere.

Being the worst team forever without getting top picks kills the market. They need the draft's help. Teams just missing the playoffs are less likely to need the help. Your way would have the very worst team constantly picking 17th. I can hear the fan frustration now.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Interesting...can we just make it the bottom 8? Playoff bubble teams likely don't need much, had IR issues or just hit a bad rough patch. A 16th team never needs nor deserves a #1 pick...2020 draft Rangers (37-28-5), while the Wings...(17-49-5). Just brutal. Yeah...they were trying to lose /s. At least they got Raymond at 4 rather than Lafreniere.

Being the worst team forever without getting top picks kills the market. They need the draft's help. Teams just missing the playoffs are less likely to need the help. Your way would have the very worst team constantly picking 17th. I can hear the fan frustration now.

I agree. 
 

even the PWHL leagues draft rules might make it too hard for the worst team to draft #1 or up in the top 5 even, if they're not winning, it isn't like after they're Mathematically eliminated  going to just magically start winning.

[cberg]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Interesting...can we just make it the bottom 8? Playoff bubble teams likely don't need much, had IR issues or just hit a bad rough patch. A 16th team never needs nor deserves a #1 pick...2020 draft Rangers (37-28-5), while the Wings...(17-49-5). Just brutal. Yeah...they were trying to lose /s. At least they got Raymond at 4 rather than Lafreniere.

Being the worst team forever without getting top picks kills the market. They need the draft's help. Teams just missing the playoffs are less likely to need the help. Your way would have the very worst team constantly picking 17th. I can hear the fan frustration now.

List all the teams, fixed rotation over 32 years…

[sak22]

58 minutes ago, cberg said:

List all the teams, fixed rotation over 32 years…

Sounds good on the surface, but how are your thoughts when rival teams get generational players and your team gets the next Yakupov.

[cberg]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

Sounds good on the surface, but how are your thoughts when rival teams get generational players and your team gets the next Yakupov.

Not happy, but that can happen no matter what system you have.  There is no perfect system, but trades still allowed, and this way high picks guaranteed for all teams.

[420since1974]

6 hours ago, cberg said:

List all the teams, fixed rotation over 32 years…

Only works in a static environment with all teams being fairly equal in talent.

The environment (number of teams) is always rising and the current 32 teams are no where near equal to each other.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Interesting...can we just make it the bottom 8? Playoff bubble teams likely don't need much, had IR issues or just hit a bad rough patch. A 16th team never needs nor deserves a #1 pick...2020 draft Rangers (37-28-5), while the Wings...(17-49-5). Just brutal. Yeah...they were trying to lose /s. At least they got Raymond at 4 rather than Lafreniere.

Being the worst team forever without getting top picks kills the market. They need the draft's help. Teams just missing the playoffs are less likely to need the help. Your way would have the very worst team constantly picking 17th. I can hear the fan frustration now.

Gms would adopt different roster strategies. You would see less of the bad contract dumping grounds of Arizona (SLC), and the dreadful asset management of the Oilers all the while having bottom feeders being a bit more hesitant on long term/high $$ contracts (SJ with EK and BUF with Skinner)

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Gms would adopt different roster strategies. You would see less of the bad contract dumping grounds of Arizona (SLC), and the dreadful asset management of the Oilers all the while having bottom feeders being a bit more hesitant on long term/high $$ contracts (SJ with EK and BUF with Skinner)

That was my first thought. Welcome to UFA though, where now you're likely over-paying regardless. Add, every decent player has some form of NTC clause these days. And you're on all of them. So as a bottom-feeder, you're still stuck in a cycle of having to overpay to convince players.

I just had another thought re Lafreniere. Had Detroit had pick 1 and taken him, would he be a different player today? He would have walked into a losing environment and been given boatloads of opportunity. As opposed to going to a Rangers team where they're already a solid team and opportunity is fleeting? You're just another player going to the 4th line when you make 2 mistakes? Not saying it's true, but worth considering. Similar would be Bedard to Pittsbugh rather than Chicago. They have Crosby and Malkin at C. Would he be their 3C?

Can going to a bad roster vs a good one affect development for star 18yos? Even occasionally? Limited icetime, no PP time, a coach that has zero patience for mistakes.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, cberg said:

Not happy, but that can happen no matter what system you have.  There is no perfect system, but trades still allowed, and this way high picks guaranteed for all teams.

So why try to manipulate systems into the equation when they're equally, if not more, flawed than just going 32nd to 1st?

[cberg]

6 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

Only works in a static environment with all teams being fairly equal in talent.

The environment (number of teams) is always rising and the current 32 teams are no where near equal to each other.

We already have a quasi-equal environment, any day any team can beat another.  New teams, just add them into the list.  
 

Are we somehow thinking that things are “fair” now?  Fair living environments? Fair taxation? Fair lottery? Fair LTIR/playoff rules?  Fair travel?  Fair playoff schedules where for instance this year it looks like Dallas v Vegas in ROUND 1?  Fair Bettman loser points?  Etc…   
 

We have a contrived system, how about a different system where every team has equal access to all picks?  

[cberg]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That was my first thought. Welcome to UFA though, where now you're likely over-paying regardless. Add, every decent player has some form of NTC clause these days. And you're on all of them. So as a bottom-feeder, you're still stuck in a cycle of having to overpay to convince players.

I just had another thought re Lafreniere. Had Detroit had pick 1 and taken him, would he be a different player today? He would have walked into a losing environment and been given boatloads of opportunity. As opposed to going to a Rangers team where they're already a solid team and opportunity is fleeting? You're just another player going to the 4th line when you make 2 mistakes? Not saying it's true, but worth considering. Similar would be Bedard to Pittsbugh rather than Chicago. They have Crosby and Malkin at C. Would he be their 3C?

Can going to a bad roster vs a good one affect development for star 18yos? Even occasionally? Limited icetime, no PP time, a coach that has zero patience for mistakes.

Yes, absolutely, look at our own Sharangovich example.