Grocery Shopping, aka Team-Building

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I try to remain optimistic on this, I want to be excited to watch a Flames game not tune in to thumping or the crap show as seen in SJ, ANA, CHI, CBJ.  I am grateful we are collecting assets but this roster is still going to need to add. To think that we do not need to add is reckless, irresponsible, and frankly dangerous. We have vets here who have won and been through the battles of the war to get to the glory land, that crucial in the development of younger guys.  Plus, it sounds like it's Vldar and Wolf who are going to require far better D man in front of them and better defensive structure. Having some more championship vets around is not a bad thing. Really the prospects we have are going to be 3-6 years away from being effective. I like the fact we are currently over-developing prospects. I know it goes against the narrative but Connie needs to acquire assets and utilize the cap space to show our current roster, league, and prospects the goal is always to win. IMHO a few tweaks to the current roster and they could have it as a system of as one moves out we have a similar or better option moving in. 

 

I don't disagree with your sentiments, however I would say you don't need the champion vets yet.  By the time we need them, they will be readily available.  And then we bring them on to win in the playoffs.  Coleman and Kadri both know what it takes once you get there, but the D isn't hardened yet.  And it's fine to instill that do what it takes ideas in the regular season, but we won't have what it takes for a bit of time.   

 

Why I am positioning it this way is that right now, to add the vets you mean, it would require 3-5 year deals and they would be needed in year 3-5.  And the cost for those winners right now will be high.  

 

Pesce is already about to get paid and he is 29 and a RHS D.  We have two of those.  

Skjei is coming off $5.4M and will get paid long term.

Brodie is more my speed.  He's 34 but has about 2 good years left.  Toronto pegged him as the problem for their D, yet he was + 17 during the season.  He's capable at LD or RD, so he could fill in.  And he won't be making the $7.5M he got as the final year.  2 years @ $3M would probably do it.  Or close.  

I wouldn't go beyond that for the D.

 

For the F, we could look at Duclair if we could get him for 2 years.  It's more expensive that way, but you aren't stuck long term.

Arvidsson has been cheap but productive.  Less than 5M and pots 20+ goals every season.  That allows us to move Mangiapane.

Plays either wing so could be a fit with Kadri or Huberdeau (or both).

 

I would like to bring in another goalie to the AHL level this summer so we have some options.

Vladar is coming off surgery and we can't expose Wolf to 40 games yet.

We probably lose Dansk and the only guy we have is somebody named Ignatjew, who has not played in NA.

 

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't disagree with your sentiments, however I would say you don't need the champion vets yet.  By the time we need them, they will be readily available.  And then we bring them on to win in the playoffs.  Coleman and Kadri both know what it takes once you get there, but the D isn't hardened yet.  And it's fine to instill that do what it takes ideas in the regular season, but we won't have what it takes for a bit of time.   

 

Why I am positioning it this way is that right now, to add the vets you mean, it would require 3-5 year deals and they would be needed in year 3-5.  And the cost for those winners right now will be high.  

 

Pesce is already about to get paid and he is 29 and a RHS D.  We have two of those.  

Skjei is coming off $5.4M and will get paid long term.

Brodie is more my speed.  He's 34 but has about 2 good years left.  Toronto pegged him as the problem for their D, yet he was + 17 during the season.  He's capable at LD or RD, so he could fill in.  And he won't be making the $7.5M he got as the final year.  2 years @ $3M would probably do it.  Or close.  

I wouldn't go beyond that for the D.

 

For the F, we could look at Duclair if we could get him for 2 years.  It's more expensive that way, but you aren't stuck long term.

Arvidsson has been cheap but productive.  Less than 5M and pots 20+ goals every season.  That allows us to move Mangiapane.

Plays either wing so could be a fit with Kadri or Huberdeau (or both).

 

I would like to bring in another goalie to the AHL level this summer so we have some options.

Vladar is coming off surgery and we can't expose Wolf to 40 games yet.

We probably lose Dansk and the only guy we have is somebody named Ignatjew, who has not played in NA.

 

Pesce is more of a shutdown guy of which we have one, In Bahl. Skeji is going to get paid yes and as he ages out will move down the roster. Never was a Brodie fan sorry there are far better options. Let's just say Anderson wants out next year, is Skeji not a better replacement for 6 years? 

 

If built correctly these guys transition down the roster, as the new ones earn their way up the ladder. Just spitballing but, Skeji and Edmunson are picked up it's a stretch I know, but work with me, Anderson says he wants out, well you have a similar if not better replacement. You gain a pick for Anderson and still have an equal if not better asset., You can still gain by removal. 

 

 

[cberg]

7 hours ago, tmac70 said:

As for the grocery list , we don't even have the ingredients to make soup and sandwiches right now. Bahl is a shutdown guy and most likely is hands down an upgrade of what we have in the system. Conroy most definitely will need to add a lot in to make this team even somewhat respectable. 

 

D UFAS- Sjeki, Pesce, Edmundson could be possible. If Anderson leaves then Sjeki will be a huge target IMHO

 

Forwards- Debrusk( 47 points), Duclair(42 points), Stephenson ( 51 points). Someone mentioned Duclair and they are not wrong he does produce, I would be fine with Stephenson as well as a 2-3 Center, he puts up numbers as well. Could Conroy be lurking to make a trade for someone, that's possible as well. We may also lose Mags which is not going to hurt IMHO but that said we don't have anything in minors that's remotely close. 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that we have the need and the money, who are the fading teams that can’t afford their vets and might be looking to offload some and rebuild on the fly?  WC, PP, TML, TBL, DS, LAK, BB, EO, CA?

 

Alternatively, what about rebuilding teams with draft “failures” that need a second chance?

[phoenix66]

8 hours ago, cberg said:

Now that we have the need and the money, who are the fading teams that can’t afford their vets and might be looking to offload some and rebuild on the fly?  WC, PP, TML, TBL, DS, LAK, BB, EO, CA?

 

Alternatively, what about rebuilding teams with draft “failures” that need a second chance?

They talked on the FAN this morning on this . We have the cap space to take on bad contracts teams would /should be willing to pay to get off their books.. some would be effective players here just badly overpaid now ..  Marc E Vlasic, Brendan Gallagher , Torey Krug were examples .. ( of course NTCs could be a barrier ..but the concept is there ) 

Vlasic would be intriguing from a trivia point of view ..just cuz he was selected with our own pick from the kipper deal .. 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Pesce is more of a shutdown guy of which we have one, In Bahl. Skeji is going to get paid yes and as he ages out will move down the roster. Never was a Brodie fan sorry there are far better options. Let's just say Anderson wants out next year, is Skeji not a better replacement for 6 years? 

 

If built correctly these guys transition down the roster, as the new ones earn their way up the ladder. Just spitballing but, Skeji and Edmunson are picked up it's a stretch I know, but work with me, Anderson says he wants out, well you have a similar if not better replacement. You gain a pick for Anderson and still have an equal if not better asset., You can still gain by removal. 

 

 

 

I would be okay in signing such guys to short term deals and flipping them at TDL.  I doubt the better of the bunch want short term deals.  Unless you know you are trading Ras or Weegard, we shouldn't be signing anyone long term and big bucks.  Andersson wanting out is speculation, as he is more the core than he used to be.  

 

 

[The_People1]

Just now, phoenix66 said:

They talked on the FAN this morning on this . We have the cap space to take on bad contracts teams would /should be willing to pay to get off their books.. some would be effective players here just badly overpaid now ..  Marc E Vlasic, Brendan Gallagher , Torey Krug were examples .. ( of course NTCs could be a barrier ..but the concept is there ) 

Vlasic would be intriguing from a trivia point of view ..just cuz he was selected with our own pick from the kipper deal .. 

 

Yes, weaponize cap space to gain some picks/prospects.  Do as MTL did to us when BT was desperate to sign Kadri.  

[phoenix66]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes, weaponize cap space to gain some picks/prospects.  Do as MTL did to us when BT was desperate to sign Kadri.  

Who does Vegas and Pittsburgh need to dump? Those 2 GM's love paying first rounders to move a contract out 

 

Genius move from Conny if he could pull it off would be to take a bad contract from Montreal (Anderson ? Gallagher ?) get our own first rounder back and still sign Mony too 

[tmac70]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would be okay in signing such guys to short term deals and flipping them at TDL.  I doubt the better of the bunch want short term deals.  Unless you know you are trading Ras or Weegard, we shouldn't be signing anyone long term and big bucks.  Andersson wanting out is speculation, as he is more the core than he used to be.  

 

 

As I said spitballing. So if Anderson is one of the core you have no issue resigning him to say what $7-$7.5  Million for 6 years because that's what it will look like. Say the insiders know he isn't happy and wants out, what's the difference between signing someone like Sjeki for the same amount and timeline? Anderson has value top 2-3 Dman  NHL experience and eats 20 Plus a night. We still have our top pairing Dman plus a NHL ready C and more draft picks. I see this as the path that Conroy takes, add but never diminish but acquire more capital to do trades or draft picks. 

[MP5029]

6 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Who does Vegas and Pittsburgh need to dump? Those 2 GM's love paying first rounders to move a contract out 

 

Genius move from Conny if he could pull it off would be to take a bad contract from Montreal (Anderson ? Gallagher ?) get our own first rounder back and still sign Mony too 

Ha! That would be an epic Move!

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Who does Vegas and Pittsburgh need to dump? Those 2 GM's love paying first rounders to move a contract out 

 

Genius move from Conny if he could pull it off would be to take a bad contract from Montreal (Anderson ? Gallagher ?) get our own first rounder back and still sign Mony too 

 

Would be nice to get the pick back from MTL but I think MTL is happy to draft and rebuild for another year yet.  Maybe we have to take Carey Price too in addition to Josh Anderson?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

As I said spitballing. So if Anderson is one of the core you have no issue resigning him to say what $7-$7.5  Million for 6 years because that's what it will look like. Say the insiders know he isn't happy and wants out, what's the difference between signing someone like Sjeki for the same amount and timeline? Anderson has value top 2-3 Dman  NHL experience and eats 20 Plus a night. We still have our top pairing Dman plus a NHL ready C and more draft picks. I see this as the path that Conroy takes, add but never diminish but acquire more capital to do trades or draft picks. 

 

What is the difference?  Two guys mentioned from other teams are over 30.  Ras is like 27.  We have two years of him at the reduced price.  If he's going to want out, he shuts his mouth and performs.  The return should be incredible.  If we are moving on from him, a 30 year old isn't the best idea for a replacement.

 

Anyway, I have no idea what we will look like by October.  I'm not keen on signing long term deals for 30+ year old D.  Or F for that matter.

[tmac70]

So if one is to read between the lines, Conroy and the Flames will be active in UFA market but with a twist.  As the term is the largest concern, the Flames are willing to pay more for the short term, don't mind this. The Flames always wish to stay competitive but they don't get bogged down with long drug-out UFA contracts, which benefits both sides. For example, Duclair or Monahon could be looking for 4 years at 3 million Flames pay  4- 5 million per for 2 years term.  

[Thebrewcrew]

On 6/20/2024 at 9:53 AM, phoenix66 said:

Who does Vegas and Pittsburgh need to dump? Those 2 GM's love paying first rounders to move a contract out 

 

Genius move from Conny if he could pull it off would be to take a bad contract from Montreal (Anderson ? Gallagher ?) get our own first rounder back and still sign Mony too 

That would be great. Would eliminate any worry for the upcoming season. It’s likely that Montreal is receiving Florida’s pick, which will

be late.

 

A really fun idea to think about though 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

So if one is to read between the lines, Conroy and the Flames will be active in UFA market but with a twist.  As the term is the largest concern, the Flames are willing to pay more for the short term, don't mind this. The Flames always wish to stay competitive but they don't get bogged down with long drug-out UFA contracts, which benefits both sides. For example, Duclair or Monahon could be looking for 4 years at 3 million Flames pay  4- 5 million per for 2 years term.  

 

That would be my hope.  BT always wanted the big name and sacrificed term to get them.  We have the cap to do a few higher dollar ones that help the team and could be flipped.  Sometimes that is what a players wants.