Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[sak22]

42 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Be fair bro.  Some of us have wanted a rebuild before the puck even dropped to start last season.

True, but months ago picking 9th to you meant we weren't getting the quality player we need, now it seems that if we can get 10 or 11 we are in a better spot.

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I was obviously in the camp of get an overpay or just don't trade him.. but I can concede if they felt they "had" to trade him then it's solid .  As ha been mentioned , you could compare Markstrom to Smith when we acquired him ..still prime , top level but 35 .. and we paid much less ..  outside of Schneider the last time a goalie trade involved a first was Ryan Miller ..so all things being equal we did ok.. 

 

But you are right.. social media especially.. it's like a Lynch mob with pitchforks now .. Anderson , Coleman, kyllington.. everybody is being moved out . Calm down people 

 

I suspect there is going to be an aneurysm epidemic when July 1 hits and they see who we spend money on and reality hits that this team wants playoffs 

 

Besides ..as it sits .. from what I've been able to determine and glean from breakdowns.. If our pick is not #1 next year it goes to Montreal..so may as well try and make that pick as bad as possible 

Where I go with this as of now Anderson, Coleman, Kadri and Hubie should be PO'ed right now. Outside of Anderson, they should be fuming as this is not what they signed for. I am pretty sure if Conroy doesn't do anything to make this team more competitive in the next few weeks, pretty sure Kadri and co. tell him to get them out of here right Fing now. and I don't blame them. 

[cross16]

18 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

No, from what I was just hearing/ reading..  If our pick falls between 2-10, they get ours .. if it falls after 10 they get the better of ours and Florida..unless another clause kicks in on the Florida pick in which case it bumps to 2026 

The only way we make a top 10 pick next year is #1 or bust 

 

 

 

 

 

Incorrect. 

 

The only way the Flames give up a top 10 pick next year is if Florida is also in the top 10. Florida's pick to Calgary is lottery protected so if the Panthers finish bottom10 it reverts to a 2026 first. In that scenario the Habs would get the Flames pick as long as it isn't number 1. 

 

Comes down to this.

If Flames finish top 10 (in terms of picks) and Panthers are outside of the top 10, Habs get Panthers pick. 

If Flames and Panthers both finish outside the top 10, the lower of the picks goes to the Habs

If Florida finishes top 10 and Flames finish outside the top 10 the Habs get the Flames pick and the Flames would get a 2026 pick. 

If both Flames and Panthers finish top 10 then the Habs get the Flames pick if it isn't 1st overall and the Flames would get Panthers 2026 pick. 

 

[MP5029]

Just now, tmac70 said:

Where I go with this as of now Anderson, Coleman, Kadri and Hubie should be PO'ed right now. Outside of Anderson, they should be fuming as this is not what they signed for. I am pretty sure if Conroy doesn't do anything to make this team more competitive in the next few weeks, pretty sure Kadri and co. tell him to get them out of here right Fing now. and I don't blame them. 

And from the fans side, Kadri, Hubie, Coleman and Backlund are welcome to asking to leave…younger is the BCA 

[cross16]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Hard to see this as anything other than a rebuild. 

 

At some point this season, I think it's worth having the Rasmus Andersson conversation. Really like the player, not sure he's worth signing from age 30-38 though. If a team can get two playoff runs with him at 4.55, I think that would be highly coveted.

 

Unlike Markstrom and Hanifin deals, I think Conroy could do quite well in an Andersson trade. There are only six teams Andersson can block a trade to. Conroy can essentially work with the entire league. Think it'd be smart to move him this year. If they wait until his walk year, you run the risk of a Hanifin situation, where the player can pick his spot, despite not having a NMC. 

 

Still think it's going to be a busy season for Conroy. Think there are Mangiapane and Kuzmenko deals to be made. Think they'll try to sign Sharangovich. If not, I think he could be sought after.

 

The way out of this is going to be through the draft. They certainly have a lot of swings in 2024, with potentially more move this  season, I think they'll have some opportunities in 2025 as well. 

 

It's not a rebuild for me but that could change depending on how they approach FA. From the sounds of things they want t omake a run at Debrusk and I dont' think they want to entertain moving players like Andersson, Kadri, Sharangovich Kuzemnko (yet).

 

Pretty semantical but a rebuild constitutes more pieces moving out IMO. Maybe we get there, but I'm not expecting it. 

[phoenix66]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Incorrect. 

 

The only way the Flames give up a top 10 pick next year is if Florida is also in the top 10. Florida's pick to Calgary is lottery protected so if the Panthers finish bottom10 it reverts to a 2026 first. In that scenario the Habs would get the Flames pick as long as it isn't number 1. 

 

Comes down to this.

If Flames finish top 10 (in terms of picks) and Panthers are outside of the top 10, Habs get Panthers pick. 

If Flames and Panthers both finish outside the top 10, the lower of the picks goes to the Habs

If Florida finishes top 10 and Flames finish outside the top 10 the Habs get the Flames pick and the Flames would get a 2026 pick. 

If both Flames and Panthers finish top 10 then the Habs get the Flames pick if it isn't 1st overall

 

What a mess ..lol..I stand corrected... Tho Fla does have a ton of UFAs and nothing in the pipeline .. that window could slam shut real quick ..not likely, but there is a path ..

 

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

It's not a rebuild for me but that could change depending on how they approach FA. From the sounds of things they want t omake a run at Debrusk and I dont' think they want to entertain moving players like Andersson, Kadri, Sharangovich Kuzemnko (yet).

 

Pretty semantical but a rebuild constitutes more pieces moving out IMO. Maybe we get there, but I'm not expecting it. 

Yep. Those players mentioned are precisely the ones that keep it from being a rebuild .. a comeback season from Hubie.. a full form year of kuzmenko..and solid goaltending (I still see a vet signing coming) .. and this team will be in a playoff discussion right to the end .. even a league average powerplay would have done it this year 

[cross16]

14 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don't think the Markstrom and Hanifin deals were all that bad. I think media was pushing the get more train and guys like Seravelli were tempering the expectations. I was excited at the thought of more, but admit it was on the backs of fans expectations and the media, rumoured of Holtz and Mercer. Jersey wasn't doing it. 
 

I would have done Coronato and Markstrom for Mercer, myself, but who knows if jersey does that even.... 

 

It doesn't sound like that was ever on the table. I think NJ was a hard no on moving Mercer. 

 

It's been suggested the Flames might have been able to get 10 but it would have cost them at least Markstrom and Coronato. 

[conundrumed]

58 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Be fair bro.  Some of us have wanted a rebuild before the puck even dropped to start last season.

Well, we're still just getting ready for one. lol

Let's say we traded Andersson for a pick.

Midseason, a top RHD goes down on a top team. Gone for the season.

But you already traded Andersson.

It's all about circumstance and timing to maximize value from your assets. Drafts are just overrated flavour-of-the-month stuff.

NJ needed Markstrom to salvage their season last year. Fine. Here's the price. Don't like it? Go get Jake Allen. They never recovered. Don't really gaf. Get all offended and act like we owed you a solid or something.

We're not in a rush to help any team. That's our price or pound sand.

I think Markstrom will be great behind their D and his puck-handling will be great for them.

I'll wager Brodeur was the first one to call him. lol

But back to the point, be patient, and you'll get solid values from your assets.

'25 is looking like a pretty solid class for forwards. This one? meh. There are some, not a lot.

Try to build out the D, find some good role players, take some swings. Go at it again next draft.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

It doesn't sound like that was ever on the table. I think NJ was a hard no on moving Mercer. 

 

It's been suggested the Flames might have been able to get 10 but it would have cost them at least Markstrom and Coronato. 

 

At TDL, the 1st was likely on the table, but NJ soured the deal by not pumping up Holtz (if that was part).  It doesn't sound to me like we really wanted Holtz.  Maybe ownership killed it or we couldn't get anything else for the salary retention.  No idea.  So, in some ways the 10th was on the table but it wouldn't have been a 10th if the TDL deal had happened.

 

I know you are talking about the 10th today, not an unknown pick at TDL.  Just putting some perspective around the current deal.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

I know you are talking about the 10th today, not an unknown pick at TDL.

+1. That isn't the pick. Or, a "top-10 protected", everyone's fave. So it's a '25 1st regardless. Or, as @cross16 likes to say, irregardless. Just jivin' you bro. lol

[JTech780]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Calgary move some picks for young NHL ready talent, much like Montreal did to get Dach and Newhook. That’s the type of move I am expecting next.

[The_People1]

34 minutes ago, sak22 said:

True, but months ago picking 9th to you meant we weren't getting the quality player we need, now it seems that if we can get 10 or 11 we are in a better spot.

 

The picture is more clear today then months ago.  We are literally looking at one of Dickinson or Silayev at 9... Pretty good peices to have long tern.  And then there's Catton, Iginla, Helenius, and Sennecke before the quality drops off noticeably.  Would be nice to add another pick in that range.

 

No, they are not franchise altering talents but those are usually only available in the top 1-3 picks.  We need to tank for those.

[The_People1]

32 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

It's not a rebuild for me but that could change depending on how they approach FA. From the sounds of things they want t omake a run at Debrusk and I dont' think they want to entertain moving players like Andersson, Kadri, Sharangovich Kuzemnko (yet).

 

Pretty semantical but a rebuild constitutes more pieces moving out IMO. Maybe we get there, but I'm not expecting it. 

 

Sounds about right.  No one knows what we are doing because we could go one of five different ways from here.  GM and media both saying opposite things.  In other words, no solid plan.  Nothing is clear.  Just go with the flow.  Par for the course for the Flames.

[Otown72]

5 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Calgary move some picks for young NHL ready talent, much like Montreal did to get Dach and Newhook. That’s the type of move I am expecting next.

I'm thinking Free agents that get bought out or reclamation projects. 

I would liketo see cgy take a shot a Laine. That depends on the asking price. But get pieces that you could build with by keeping or building up value and then trading.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

+1. That isn't the pick. Or, a "top-10 protected", everyone's fave. So it's a '25 1st regardless. Or, as @cross16 likes to say, irregardless. Just jivin' you bro. lol

 

That is true, even a TDL deal would be protected.  So with the current deal, we are getting either a 2025 11-32 overall or a 2026 1-32 overall.  I think they will have a good team this year, so it will be a 2025 pick.

[The_People1]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Well, we're still just getting ready for one. lol

Let's say we traded Andersson for a pick.

Midseason, a top RHD goes down on a top team. Gone for the season.

But you already traded Andersson.

It's all about circumstance and timing to maximize value from your assets. Drafts are just overrated flavour-of-the-month stuff.

NJ needed Markstrom to salvage their season last year. Fine. Here's the price. Don't like it? Go get Jake Allen. They never recovered. Don't really gaf. Get all offended and act like we owed you a solid or something.

We're not in a rush to help any team. That's our price or pound sand.

I think Markstrom will be great behind their D and his puck-handling will be great for them.

I'll wager Brodeur was the first one to call him. lol

But back to the point, be patient, and you'll get solid values from your assets.

'25 is looking like a pretty solid class for forwards. This one? meh. There are some, not a lot.

Try to build out the D, find some good role players, take some swings. Go at it again next draft.

 

Trade one of Weegar or Andersson.  So we still have one RHS RD left for emergencies like the one you are saying.

 

But the irony is of course, I'm suggesting we trade away Andersson for a top 10 pick so we can draft a D.  It's one step backwards... And hopefully two steps forward in the future... And we can math at pick 9 or 10.  Silayev might be there.  Yakemchuk certainly.  Jiricek too.  Even Parekh could be there.  Get another pick and we could land a future 2/3/4 D with the pick (which is what Andersson is anyways).

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Yakemchuk certainly. 

I wouldn't be so sure. I have Ottawa or SEA bumping him up. Not saying I'm right, but the size, RHS and O combo might be looking irresistible to a couple of teams.

[conundrumed]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

In other words, no solid plan.

Why on earth would any GM give the media any kind of honest answer? Keep your cards close to your chest. Everyone does that, not just the Flames. Try following Detroit. lol

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I wouldn't be so sure. I have Ottawa or SEA bumping him up. Not saying I'm right, but the size, RHS and O combo might be looking irresistible to a couple of teams.

 

If Dickinson, Buium, Silayev, and Iginla are gone by 9... Then I wouldn't mind taking Yakemchuk.  I assume Parekh will be the first RHS RD taken.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Why on earth would any GM give the media any kind of honest answer? Keep your cards close to your chest. Everyone does that, not just the Flames. Try following Detroit. lol

 

Well it's clear what CHI, ANA, and SJS are doing.  Same at the opposite side of the standings.  Many teams are clearly going all in to win the Cup.  It's only a handful of wishy-washy teams near the bottom who can't decide if they want to bottom out hard or soft.

[Kulstad]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Well it's clear what CHI, ANA, and SJS are doing.  Same at the opposite side of the standings.  It's a handful of wishy-washy teams near the bottom who can't decide if they want to bottom out hard or soft.

conundrumed asked the same question I was going to ask, that you still haven't answered:  why would Flames management tell anyone outside of the organization, media included, what their plans are.

 

Just because the GM and the media are saying 2 different things doesn't mean "In other words, no solid plan".  We know for certain that media talking heads like to make stuff up and stir the pot, so they really aren't worth listening to at major points of the season (TDL lead-up, FA lead-up, etc).  And we also know that for a team to make their internal plans known to the outside world is a recipe for disaster, so take everything team reps say with a grain of salt.

 

To make statements like "In other words, no solid plan" in an "authoritative tone" is really just a more sophisticated method of conspiracy creating.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

If Dickinson, Buium, Silayev, and Iginla are gone by 9... Then I wouldn't mind taking Yakemchuk.  I assume Parekh will be the first RHS RD taken.

I can't wait to see who takes Parekh. I have no idea, if you can't defend in jr, how will you ever be a top 4 at the next level. I'd take him with the Dallas pick. lol

He'll never be on the ice vs the other team's top 6 at the next level.

Dickinson is the polar opposite imo. That kid is calm defending. He's so good at it. Barely ever out of place, quick retrievals, hard to pass it around him, always at the net front. It's impressive. Whoever taught that kid, we need them. lol

He could just as easily be the first one gone. Anaheim is a wild card. Verbeek's farm in Wyoming, ON is literally a 15 minute drive to the Hunter's in Oil Springs.

Not like they don't know each other, Hunter's are just a bit older.

[sak22]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Why on earth would any GM give the media any kind of honest answer? Keep your cards close to your chest. Everyone does that, not just the Flames. Try following Detroit. lol

Yeah San Jose has also refused to use the word rebuild for much of the last few years.  Even the letter the Rangers sent that everyone likes to throw out (despite their actions also not meeting the majorities criteria of a rebuild), but it also uses reshape not rebuild.  But Chicago won the lottery and added vets like Foligno, Hall and Perry in an effort to get things back on track fast, didn't help because they got bandaid Hall and douchebag Perry.  Anaheim had #2 and added Killorn and Gudas who were reputable character guys and improved 1 point.  The rebuild experts are already in panic because someone tweeted that Jake Debrusk bought a house here.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, Kulstad said:

conundrumed asked the same question I was going to ask, that you still haven't answered:  why would Flames management tell anyone outside of the organization, media included, what their plans are.

 

Just because the GM and the media are saying 2 different things doesn't mean "In other words, no solid plan".  We know for certain that media talking heads like to make stuff up and stir the pot, so they really aren't worth listening to at major points of the season (TDL lead-up, FA lead-up, etc).  And we also know that for a team to make their internal plans known to the outside world is a recipe for disaster, so take everything team reps say with a grain of salt.

 

To make statements like "In other words, no solid plan" in an "authoritative tone" is really just a more sophisticated method of conspiracy creating.

 

Well, I don't even mean publically declare the direction of the team.  There are pros and cons to revealing your cards.  But I'm not even talking about that.  

 

I'm saying the approach is clear.  The path forward is, there is no firm path forward.  Conroy is taking a watch and see approach and if this team is close to the playoffs at TDL, then he will switch to buyer mode.  This FA season, same thing.  He will target some players and if they sign, then they sign.  Debrusk for example serves no purpose.  But let's target him.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I can't wait to see who takes Parekh. I have no idea, if you can't defend in jr, how will you ever be a top 4 at the next level. I'd take him with the Dallas pick. lol

He'll never be on the ice vs the other team's top 6 at the next level.

Dickinson is the polar opposite imo. That kid is calm defending. He's so good at it. Barely ever out of place, quick retrievals, hard to pass it around him, always at the net front. It's impressive. Whoever taught that kid, we need them. lol

He could just as easily be the first one gone. Anaheim is a wild card. Verbeek's farm in Wyoming, ON is literally a 15 minute drive to the Hunter's in Oil Springs.

Not like they don't know each other, Hunter's are just a bit older.

 

But like they say, you can teach defense but you cannot teach offence.  The hardest thing to do in the NHL is score.  Parekh can score.

 

Parekh is not my first choice but the ceiling is high.  Yakemchuk can score too.  But OHL is a tougher league and Parekh's skating is top notch compared to Yakemchuk.