travel_dude Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: No kidding. We're not here to help their cap. Give us Perbix and next year's 2nd. What a lousy trade partner. 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: Absolutely not interested in Cirelli at $6.25 x 7 more years. I was trying to come up with something from them that made any sense. He's about the youngest guy, that's a C, that is overpaid but maybe worth close to it. Just goes to show you how bad a trade partner they are. F Tampa. 16 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Hanifin is in Adam Fox territory for me. Got him out of Carolina, gave him every opportunity with solid partners, offered him really solid value on a contract extension....aaaand we get this "only TBay" leak. Blockchain you Hanifin and the horse you rode in on. Hopefully it's a 3 team deal. We trade your bs to Uranus and they can trade you to Tampa. We did have a locker room problem. A team full of self-absorbed Hash Rate. Hopefully an ex-team of self-absorbed Hash Rate. Break a leg, literally. Pos. Go away, overrated brain-fart machine. Then again, he'll never get injured. Guys that get injured bleed heart and soul on the ice. That's a far cry from Hanifin. He's a pantywaif. Likely wouldn't stick up for his own sistercousin. I also heard that he showers with his socks on. I don't know what his issue is. Not the same as Gaudreau. Just wants to go to the US. He has what 8 teams that he won't go to? Well bud, if you want to go to team 24 on your list, keep the M-NTC firm. We will trade to the team that offers the most. And they might not want you past the playoffs with your somewhat lazy play. And Tampa may not want you when they start looking at their cap. I would be more than happy to send you to NJ or FLA, but ony based on who pays more. A team thinking he wants to go there may not offer as much. A team needing a D may look at the coming playoffs and weigh the risk. Like rentals always used to be. Since when do re-signings play into it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 25 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Hanifin is in Adam Fox territory for me. Got him out of Carolina, gave him every opportunity with solid partners, offered him really solid value on a contract extension....aaaand we get this "only TBay" leak. Blockchain you Hanifin and the horse you rode in on. Hopefully it's a 3 team deal. We trade your bs to Uranus and they can trade you to Tampa. We did have a locker room problem. A team full of self-absorbed Hash Rate. Hopefully an ex-team of self-absorbed Hash Rate. Break a leg, literally. Pos. Go away, overrated brain-fart machine. Then again, he'll never get injured. Guys that get injured bleed heart and soul on the ice. That's a far cry from Hanifin. He's a pantywaif. Likely wouldn't stick up for his own sistercousin. I also heard that he showers with his socks on. Doesn't matter where he wants to go though. Pure rentals still have value at the TDL. Send him to PHI or NYR for one run. Get a 1st + mid-tier prospect + low end NHL player. Done and done. Let him go sign in TB this summer who probably can't even make his cap hit fit anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 14 minutes ago, cberg said: Thanks for sharing what you really feel. Have to agree the TBay leaks is a real problem and should not be happening. Yeah, seems like locker room issues go way deeper than we thought. I'm suddenly really intrigued ..to see how this turns out . If you can get the podcast from today for the flames talk on 960, with Frank seravilli.. they go to town on him and his agent .. never realized his agent is Pat Brisson.. probabaly the agent with the biggest NHL portfolio.. it there's a slimy trick to be played ..he knows it .. Conny is in a dogfight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 If I were the flames, trade him in a rental deal, make him play out this year. Maybe he'd re-sign? But just get the rental prices and go... probably more a Bouwmeester deal regardless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 17 minutes ago, cberg said: Thanks for sharing what you really feel. Have to agree the TBay leaks is a real problem and should not be happening. Yeah, seems like locker room issues go way deeper than we thought. I've always thought Hanifin might be one of the locker room boys, along with Lindholm. Not so much that they are cancer, just that they sometimes play to not get hurt. Can't remember the last time that Hanifin blocked a shot. Lindholm just doesn't always look like his head is in the game. I suspect they may be one or two left. They aren't obvious, so maybe they are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 3 minutes ago, robrob74 said: If I were the flames, trade him in a rental deal, make him play out this year. Maybe he'd re-sign? But just get the rental prices and go... probably more a Bouwmeester deal regardless... The rental proce used to be like the Chiarot deal. 1st, 4th and a prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Man this is getting ugly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 There are 23 teams the Flames can trade Hanifin to. If I'm Conroy I don't care where Hanifin wants to sign. There's no incentive to trade him with an extension, unless you're getting a great return. Rentals can still fetch a nice return. Washington got a 1,2,3 for Orlov as a rental. Dmitry Orlov Trade History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 I think that return goes down quite a bit if your agent is telling that team the player doesn't want to be there. I'm not giving up a 1, 2, 3 for a player to come and be unhappy. Rental or no rental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, cross16 said: I think that return goes down quite a bit if your agent is telling that team the player doesn't want to be there. I'm not giving up a 1, 2, 3 for a player to come and be unhappy. Rental or no rental. or implies that the next negotiation with another of his clients might not go so well .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 What happens when you give the power to the player and agent... they're the ones that signed THIS contract and need to honour it, happy or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, cross16 said: I think that return goes down quite a bit if your agent is telling that team the player doesn't want to be there. I'm not giving up a 1, 2, 3 for a player to come and be unhappy. Rental or no rental. Trues. But in the end, the highest bidder wins. Hanifin is also doing himself a disservice because UFA is in a couple months and he's cornered himself into two teams. Not different from Gaudreau who wanted to play in PHI but PHI was capped out. FLA cannot afford him when they have to spend the cap room on Reinhart, Forsling, Montour, etc. So TB can offer Hanifin $5-mil x 7-years take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: Man this is getting ugly... Agent cannot stop anything unless the team is on No Trade List. If Flames trade Hanifin to TOR, then it's off our plate. Let the agent scream at BT. In the end, take the best deal. If TB is giving us 2nd round pick + fringe NHLer, then look elsewhere. Shop Hanifin to TB rivals who might want to take Hanifin as a defensive measure to prevent TB from getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 18 minutes ago, robrob74 said: What happens when you give the power to the player and agent... they're the ones that signed THIS contract and need to honour it, happy or not. True in theory but just not the direction the game is going. Players and agents are doing this across all sports now. 6 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Trues. But in the end, the highest bidder wins. Hanifin is also doing himself a disservice because UFA is in a couple months and he's cornered himself into two teams. Not different from Gaudreau who wanted to play in PHI but PHI was capped out. FLA cannot afford him when they have to spend the cap room on Reinhart, Forsling, Montour, etc. So TB can offer Hanifin $5-mil x 7-years take it or leave it. I don't think for a second Conroy is going to accept a lesser deal just to move Hanifin where he wants to go. He'll do it because it's the best deal. I think the Hanifin camp are just working to try and make sure that the best offer is also in a place where he wants to go. I think the idea in Florida if Hanifin would be there guy and then they would not be retaining both of Forsling or Montour. So Florida can make this work. End of the day though it's up to Hanifin where he wants to play. If that's all they can pay him and he still wants to be there, cest la vie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 10 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Trues. But in the end, the highest bidder wins. Hanifin is also doing himself a disservice because UFA is in a couple months and he's cornered himself into two teams. Not different from Gaudreau who wanted to play in PHI but PHI was capped out. FLA cannot afford him when they have to spend the cap room on Reinhart, Forsling, Montour, etc. So TB can offer Hanifin $5-mil x 7-years take it or leave it. It becomes an issue when the non wanted teams are now only offering you late rounders and scrub prospects because the agent has soured them on making an offer thats better than the preferred teams offer ..and they are all teams that have nothing to give .. If you are a non preferred team..not only are you getting a player that 💯 will not sign with you . You're getting with no internet in playing For you.. you wanna go to war with that guy ? Say hello to 3rd rounders and B prospects Im hoping Connie finds a way to put these preferred teams (all Atlantic div teams) against each other playing keep away , or , telling you now, we will hear the return and say WTF.. because you can guarantee it will have been the best offer he takes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 17 minutes ago, robrob74 said: What happens when you give the power to the player and agent... they're the ones that signed THIS contract and need to honour it, happy or not. They don't have much power as said he can trade to any 23 team not on his list that makes an offer, but the player and agent always have power. It is in Conroy's better interests to present himself better to players than it is for Pat Brisson and Noah Hanifin to present better to Craig Conroy. It's not the cutthroat business people make it out to be, you still need to present a market players will want to go and will need to have positive working relationships with those representing the players. If Brad Treliving threw a hissy fit publicly towards Gaudreau and Lewis Gross than I think his Nylander negotiations go worse. But before we get too emotional, we don't know what is really out there, teams have had 9 months to meet Conroy's asking price and that hasn't happened to date, I believe that is the main reason contract talks didn't completely die until 2 weeks ago. I remember people being bitter towards Iggy for picking Pittsburgh over Boston, history shows the Boston deal also sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Can’t believe the Mantha trade this evening. Washington sent him to Vegas, while retaining 50%, for a 2nd and 4th. When Detroit traded him to Washington they got 2 NHLers, a 1st and a 2nd. Talk about depreciation. Detroit must have realized what they drafted and dumped him while his reputation was still good. I guess that’s the game, a dirty one if you can do it. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 7 hours ago, cberg said: Can’t believe the Mantha trade this evening. Washington sent him to Vegas, while retaining 50%, for a 2nd and 4th. When Detroit traded him to Washington they got 2 NHLers, a 1st and a 2nd. Talk about depreciation. Detroit must have realized what they drafted and dumped him while his reputation was still good. I guess that’s the game, a dirty one if you can do it. Unfortunately. Vrana & Panik the 2 NHLers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: It becomes an issue when the non wanted teams are now only offering you late rounders and scrub prospects because the agent has soured them on making an offer thats better than the preferred teams offer ..and they are all teams that have nothing to give .. If you are a non preferred team..not only are you getting a player that 💯 will not sign with you . You're getting with no internet in playing For you.. you wanna go to war with that guy ? Say hello to 3rd rounders and B prospects Im hoping Connie finds a way to put these preferred teams (all Atlantic div teams) against each other playing keep away , or , telling you now, we will hear the return and say WTF.. because you can guarantee it will have been the best offer he takes But you gotta wonder. You rescue a player from a non-playoff team to a contender and he doesn't want to play? He is going to sit and pout until summer when he has a chance to win the Cup? Why would TB and FLA sign a quitter like Hanifin if that's what Hanifin tries to do? Pulling an immature stunt like this will cost Hanifin millions and won't make him attractive to the destination he wants to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, The_People1 said: But you gotta wonder. You rescue a player from a non-playoff team to a contender and he doesn't want to play? He is going to sit and pout until summer when he has a chance to win the Cup? Why would TB and FLA sign a quitter like Hanifin if that's what Hanifin tries to do? Pulling an immature stunt like this will cost Hanifin millions and won't make him attractive to the destination he wants to go? How bought in does Lindholm look in VCR right now? I only partially blame Hanifin.. his agent makes more money if he gets the 8th year Think.. how much do you think Alan Walsh works to get his clients to Vegas these days ? You get on an agents bad side and suddenly negotiations go bad .. free agents are steered away from your team .. and Brisson carries a lot of clout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 22 minutes ago, sak22 said: They don't have much power as said he can trade to any 23 team not on his list that makes an offer, but the player and agent always have power. It is in Conroy's better interests to present himself better to players than it is for Pat Brisson and Noah Hanifin to present better to Craig Conroy. It's not the cutthroat business people make it out to be, you still need to present a market players will want to go and will need to have positive working relationships with those representing the players. If Brad Treliving threw a hissy fit publicly towards Gaudreau and Lewis Gross than I think his Nylander negotiations go worse. But before we get too emotional, we don't know what is really out there, teams have had 9 months to meet Conroy's asking price and that hasn't happened to date, I believe that is the main reason contract talks didn't completely die until 2 weeks ago. I remember people being bitter towards Iggy for picking Pittsburgh over Boston, history shows the Boston deal also sucked. 6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: How bought in does Lindholm look in VCR right now? I only partially blame Hanifin.. his agent makes more money if he gets the 8th year Think.. how much do you think Alan Walsh works to get his clients to Vegas these days ? You get on an agents bad side and suddenly negotiations go bad .. free agents are steered away from your team .. and Brisson carries a lot of clout The politics. I get it. But to a degree though. No doubt Conroy will try to accommodate Hanifin because that's the right thing to do on a human level. But Brisson and Hanifin have contractual obligations too. It's fair game if Conroy doesn't like the returns from TB. Brisson and Hanifin need to understand from a professional perspective or else the bad actor here is them, not Conroy. The rest of the league will see it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 36 minutes ago, cross16 said: True in theory but just not the direction the game is going. Players and agents are doing this across all sports now. I don't think for a second Conroy is going to accept a lesser deal just to move Hanifin where he wants to go. He'll do it because it's the best deal. I think the Hanifin camp are just working to try and make sure that the best offer is also in a place where he wants to go. I think the idea in Florida if Hanifin would be there guy and then they would not be retaining both of Forsling or Montour. So Florida can make this work. End of the day though it's up to Hanifin where he wants to play. If that's all they can pay him and he still wants to be there, cest la vie. It's what makes me hate the other sports. Basketball sucks, not sure if it's the rule changes or the players basically teaming up with buddies... but not fun to watch anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 2 minutes ago, The_People1 said: The politics. I get it. But to a degree though. No doubt Conroy will try to accommodate Hanifin because that's the right thing to do on a human level. But Brisson and Hanifin have contractual obligations too. It's fair game if Conroy doesn't like the returns from TB. Brisson and Hanifin need to understand from a professional perspective or else the bad actor here is them, not Conroy. The league will see it. Oh totally in the end he won't trade him to one of his team's just to be good to the player .. it will be because they had the best offer .. just the other offers are being pushed down .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 7 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Oh totally in the end he won't trade him to one of his team's just to be good to the player .. it will be because they had the best offer .. just the other offers are being pushed down .. At the end of the day, Hanifin will have his day (aka UFA season). In a few months he gets to decide where to play for the next 7-years. There's no need for him to strong arm the Flames to get to TB earlier. Hanifin and Brisson don't need to play it so aggressively. If Hanifin wants to go to TB then he has all summer to make it happen. They're capped out anyways and probably cannot even offer Hanifin fair market value on his next contract if he pushes his way into TB right now. For that 8th year? TB needs everyone to take less to stay competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 A lot of getting ahead of ourselves here. Math isn't that difficult. First of all, while technically yes Hanifin can be dealt to 23 teams let's be more realistic of actual possibilities because a non playoff team isn't going to rent Hanifin. If there are truly 4 teams (Boston, Vegas, TB and florida) who he will re sign with then your looking at 12 ish additional teams that might look at him for a rental. Now if your outside the top 10 are you really going to give up a rental price for a player you know isn't going to re sign? No, you'll drop your price and you'll give up less. So that puts a team outside the top 10 as likely out. so let's look at the top 10 team in the NHL right now. Well 4 of them are Canadian teams so they are out (very likely that the CDN teams are on his NTC). 2 of which are the teams I just mentioned (basically 3 as Vegas is 11th) so your left with 4 Rangers ( Hanifin is not a big need here) Stars Avs (Can't swing a deal without get very fancy with the cap) Canes Even expand it a bit Nashville (Renting him is not in their nature) LA ( Maybe) Detroit (thought they could be a player) The rest your into fringe playoff teams. So again if you are told you have no shot to sign the player why, as a fringe playoff team, am I going to give up a 1st plus? Heck why am I giving up a first period? This isn't a robust market to begin with so it's not that difficult for Hanifin's camp to work this towards his preferred destinations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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