JTech780 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 33 minutes ago, cross16 said: It's starting to sound like the Markstrom to NJ deal wasn't quite as close as it seemed. So if NJ wasn't willing to pay the price 2 weeks ago I can't imagine their recent slide is going to make them more likely to pay up but as Friedman says it only takes 1 call and their is still time. Wondering if Conroy overplayed his hand here. The problem is there are only so many true number 1 goalies in the league, but teams are learning that you don’t necessarily need a number 1 to win a Cup, so you aren’t going to get a huge return for a goalie anymore. That being said teams that do have the rare true number 1 goalie don’t want to part with them easily because they are hard to find, and they do help you get to the playoffs. So it creates this odd push/pull in value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 27 Author Report Share Posted February 27 33 minutes ago, JTech780 said: The problem is there are only so many true number 1 goalies in the league, but teams are learning that you don’t necessarily need a number 1 to win a Cup, so you aren’t going to get a huge return for a goalie anymore. That being said teams that do have the rare true number 1 goalie don’t want to part with them easily because they are hard to find, and they do help you get to the playoffs. So it creates this odd push/pull in value. That would be fine for NJ if they has a #2 or #3. They really don't have anything other than Vanacek. Daws etc. may be something down the road, but not now. Maybe it's too late for them to worry now, or maybe the pressure to make the playoffs is intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, cross16 said: It's starting to sound like the Markstrom to NJ deal wasn't quite as close as it seemed. So if NJ wasn't willing to pay the price 2 weeks ago I can't imagine their recent slide is going to make them more likely to pay up but as Friedman says it only takes 1 call and their is still time. Wondering if Conroy overplayed his hand here. NJD needs a goalie but also LAK. CAR might too. Maybe even TOR. There's still hope a deal can get done. The Flames should just take the best offer and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 38 minutes ago, The_People1 said: NJD needs a goalie but also LAK. CAR might too. Maybe even TOR. There's still hope a deal can get done. The Flames should just take the best offer and move on. That's kind of how I feel, and if it means it protects against Montreal getting a high pick, it is a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: NJD needs a goalie but also LAK. CAR might too. Maybe even TOR. There's still hope a deal can get done. The Flames should just take the best offer and move on. Very possible. I just don't think that is the Flames approach and I don't see any of those teams making an offer that is going to come close to Flames asking price. I think it's NJ or bust on Markstrom for now. Then it's waiting until the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 27 Author Report Share Posted February 27 I get that we are in a playoff race, and are battling with teams near us in points (SEA, MIN, STL) or the next tier (NAS, LA, EDM, VGK). The largest gap today is 10 points back and the closest WC spot is 5 back. With 24 games left, the highest possible total is 109. Last 10 games - 7-3-0 Previous 10 - 4-6-0 Previous 10 - 6-2-2 Last 30 games 0.600 points % If we maintained that over final 24 games that would give us 61 + 29 = 90 points. Not really a playoff team. And that is getting 14-9-1 over 34 games. Players hate to lose. They might be less willing to sacrifice if they se the GM has thrown in the towel. That also works in reverse, where players want to prove they are part of the solution. Either way, I think the GM has a duty to protect the future over short term wins. If you feel that you are getting value from trading Markstrom, consider that the summer trades doesn't get you any picks in the 2024 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: If you feel that you are getting value from trading Markstrom, consider that the summer trades doesn't get you any picks in the 2024 draft. unless you trade him at the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 The UFA goalie class is really poor. You can probably get a decent return for Markstrom in the summer. Anthony Stolarz might be the best available UFA G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 7 hours ago, cross16 said: It's starting to sound like the Markstrom to NJ deal wasn't quite as close as it seemed. So if NJ wasn't willing to pay the price 2 weeks ago I can't imagine their recent slide is going to make them more likely to pay up but as Friedman says it only takes 1 call and their is still time. Wondering if Conroy overplayed his hand here. I get the solid impression they have no interest in moving him... They'll listen..set their price ..but don't really care If it's not met .. Came out recently the Preds offered Saros... For Mercer, Holtz, a first , second and no retention.. of course NJ said no. But they're in the same boat..they want to keep Saros , but here's the price of you really want him.. It was in more then one report that Buffalo was shopping Middlestedt.. and wanted a goalie ..but no report that Calgary ever approached them .. The only teams who can give us a high enough pick to be attractive are teams Marky likely won't go. Why would he? He likes it here.. why go to a tire fire I believe he starts the season here next year ..unless somehow a team ponies up a kings ransom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 17 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: I get the solid impression they have no interest in moving him... They'll listen..set their price ..but don't really care If it's not met .. Came out recently the Preds offered Saros... For Mercer, Holtz, a first , second and no retention.. of course NJ said no. But they're in the same boat..they want to keep Saros , but here's the price of you really want him.. It was in more then one report that Buffalo was shopping Middlestedt.. and wanted a goalie ..but no report that Calgary ever approached them .. The only teams who can give us a high enough pick to be attractive are teams Marky likely won't go. Why would he? He likes it here.. why go to a tire fire I believe he starts the season here next year ..unless somehow a team ponies up a kings ransom. Saros is 28 though. Markstrom is 34. Makes more sense for Nashville to keep Saros through a 3 year retool. But it doesn't make sense for the Flames to keep Markstrom for that time span. Flames have Wolf. NSH has Askarov. Both teams have the successor in the system and nearly ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, The_People1 said: Saros is 28 though. Markstrom is 34. Makes more sense for Nashville to keep Saros through a 3 year retool. But it doesn't make sense for the Flames to keep Markstrom for that time span. Flames have Wolf. NSH has Askarov. Both teams have the successor in the system and nearly ready. Not saying anybody has to agree with the approach or the thought process...just pointing out its becoming clear that is what the team is thinking .. were not going to give away a top 5 goalie in the league with team control .. as long as he's giving us wins we don't necessarily deserve it's good for the kids Ps.. Nashville wants to resign Saros for 8 years reportedly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: Saros is 28 though. Markstrom is 34. Makes more sense for Nashville to keep Saros through a 3 year retool. But it doesn't make sense for the Flames to keep Markstrom for that time span. Flames have Wolf. NSH has Askarov. Both teams have the successor in the system and nearly ready. You can make the argument that the age gap is offset by the contracts. Saros is gonna command 64 million. Markstrom is only a two year commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 The team I’m starting to wonder about in terms of Hanifin and/or Tanev is Phi…also with Hart gone for a while Markstrom they may be a good option as they have possibly 2x 1st and some decent player options to mix and match with… NJD is sliding fast, and as much as they could be an ideal trading partner I think they held off a bit too long and are done, im kinda thinking Hanifin may be willing to go to Phi long term even, it’s close to Bos and they have a good young team too…add Markstrom and there is a possibility of a blockbuster win win for both Phi and Cgy… otherwise at this point im starting to think Markstrom is best to stay for at least this year.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 I am also starting to see Philadelphia as a potential destination for Hanifin. The Flames could ask for one of the Flyers two 1st round draft picks, a young roster player like Yegor Zamula, and a prospect (Samu Tuomaala or Helge Grans). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 11 hours ago, phoenix66 said: I get the solid impression they have no interest in moving him... They'll listen..set their price ..but don't really care If it's not met .. Came out recently the Preds offered Saros... For Mercer, Holtz, a first , second and no retention.. of course NJ said no. But they're in the same boat..they want to keep Saros , but here's the price of you really want him.. It was in more then one report that Buffalo was shopping Middlestedt.. and wanted a goalie ..but no report that Calgary ever approached them .. The only teams who can give us a high enough pick to be attractive are teams Marky likely won't go. Why would he? He likes it here.. why go to a tire fire I believe he starts the season here next year ..unless somehow a team ponies up a kings ransom. Could very well be true, but if it is it’s a pretty big blunder by the team that could even turn out to be a massive error. Time will tell. For me it’s still not clear what they will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 13 hours ago, phoenix66 said: I get the solid impression they have no interest in moving him... They'll listen..set their price ..but don't really care If it's not met .. Came out recently the Preds offered Saros... For Mercer, Holtz, a first , second and no retention.. of course NJ said no. But they're in the same boat..they want to keep Saros , but here's the price of you really want him.. It was in more then one report that Buffalo was shopping Middlestedt.. and wanted a goalie ..but no report that Calgary ever approached them .. The only teams who can give us a high enough pick to be attractive are teams Marky likely won't go. Why would he? He likes it here.. why go to a tire fire I believe he starts the season here next year ..unless somehow a team ponies up a kings ransom. I view it as negotiation tactics. We don't know the thought process other than we reportedly balked at the cost of the salary retention. That doesn't really sound like we had no intent to move him. That sounds like a hard bargaining strategy. I may not agree with it, but it sets expectations for the retention at least. They could climb down from it and make it happen. NJ is 5 back of Philly in the division for 3rd and 5 back of Tampa for WC. 5-4-1 in their last 10 with 3rd tier goaltending. They are on the bubble. 4 games before TDL. They play ANA on Friday. Unless traded, Markstrom is playing Saturday night 100%. If I am NJ, I am making the best pitch now so that Markstrom is available for Sunday against LA. This is their make or break week coming up. A trade before Friday gives them a good shot at 4 points on the rest of the trip. And it gives them a top goalie in 3 of 4 starts before TDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 17 hours ago, phoenix66 said: Not saying anybody has to agree with the approach or the thought process...just pointing out its becoming clear that is what the team is thinking .. were not going to give away a top 5 goalie in the league with team control .. as long as he's giving us wins we don't necessarily deserve it's good for the kids Ps.. Nashville wants to resign Saros for 8 years reportedly It makes sense for NSH to want to extend Saros 8-years. He'll be 36/37 at the end of it. And he's a top 5 NHL goalie (on a down year this year). It's not comparable to Markstrom who only has 2-years of prime left. We should take the best offer and move on with Wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: I view it as negotiation tactics. We don't know the thought process other than we reportedly balked at the cost of the salary retention. That doesn't really sound like we had no intent to move him. That sounds like a hard bargaining strategy. I may not agree with it, but it sets expectations for the retention at least. They could climb down from it and make it happen. NJ is 5 back of Philly in the division for 3rd and 5 back of Tampa for WC. 5-4-1 in their last 10 with 3rd tier goaltending. They are on the bubble. 4 games before TDL. They play ANA on Friday. Unless traded, Markstrom is playing Saturday night 100%. If I am NJ, I am making the best pitch now so that Markstrom is available for Sunday against LA. This is their make or break week coming up. A trade before Friday gives them a good shot at 4 points on the rest of the trip. And it gives them a top goalie in 3 of 4 starts before TDL. For sure.. everybody has a price tag.. just that for him and some others I'm sure .. teams have to ante up something undeniable to convince them to sell..an overpay . If they don't meet the price , oh well..they're not shopping him Unlike Tanev and Hanifin.. sure theyre creating a bidding war but if March 8 Rolls around the buyers hold the cards . If suddenly only a 3rd rounder is on the table for Tanev Conny has to take it .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 2 minutes ago, The_People1 said: It makes sense for NSH to want to extend Saros 8-years. He'll be 36/37 at the end of it. And he's a top 5 NHL goalie (on a down year this year). It's not comparable to Markstrom who only has 2-years of prime left. We should take the best offer and move on with Wolf. Exactly..a team is buying 2 years of prime Markstrom ..they rightfully will make a team pay for it..or they'll keep it for themselves . They obviously have no desire to move him.. but are willing to move anybody if the price is met ..and they're obviously setting it high .. Conny has made it pretty clear ..there will be "throwing in the towel" ... You want out ..fine... Don't want to sign ...you're gone .. No matter what people are wanting.. there will be no tank.. that's been made pretty clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 17 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: No matter what people are wanting.. there will be no tank.. that's been made pretty clear Said every GM from every tanking team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 23 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: For sure.. everybody has a price tag.. just that for him and some others I'm sure .. teams have to ante up something undeniable to convince them to sell..an overpay . If they don't meet the price , oh well..they're not shopping him Unlike Tanev and Hanifin.. sure theyre creating a bidding war but if March 8 Rolls around the buyers hold the cards . If suddenly only a 3rd rounder is on the table for Tanev Conny has to take it .. Oh totally. I don't think they are looking for an overpay, just something approaching the value of a #1 goalie with term going out the door. If the sticking point was price of retention (some debate there), then they weren't looking for the doors being blown off. In the context of what the value of a (possibly) declining goalie is to the organization, you sell if you are not competing for the playoffs in the window of his term. I don't think there is enough value in keeping him if the trades are reasonable for the value of the player. You wait for the doors to be blown off for young D or young C/W on the cusp of becoming a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 2 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Oh totally. I don't think they are looking for an overpay, just something approaching the value of a #1 goalie with term going out the door. If the sticking point was price of retention (some debate there), then they weren't looking for the doors being blown off. In the context of what the value of a (possibly) declining goalie is to the organization, you sell if you are not competing for the playoffs in the window of his term. I don't think there is enough value in keeping him if the trades are reasonable for the value of the player. You wait for the doors to be blown off for young D or young C/W on the cusp of becoming a star. There's the rub.. people can love it ..hate it..debate it ..etc.. but the goal is playoffs every year ..they may understand there may be pains getting there .. but the goal from the organization is playoffs ..that much has not changed on the process .. the statements from Conroy and the actions to date make that pretty obvious ... Not signing or asking to leave are the only reasons they are making or have made the moves they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 2 hours ago, phoenix66 said: There's the rub.. people can love it ..hate it..debate it ..etc.. but the goal is playoffs every year ..they may understand there may be pains getting there .. but the goal from the organization is playoffs ..that much has not changed on the process .. the statements from Conroy and the actions to date make that pretty obvious ... Not signing or asking to leave are the only reasons they are making or have made the moves they are Toffoli was not a "not signing" trade. He had a certain expectation and was signed for this year. He did not ask to be traded. From a cap view alone, his future deal did not fit with the aims of the team. This also flies in the face of making the playoffs every year. The GM (and to a certain extent the owners) evaluate what kind of team they have. Half a year of team struggles does not suggest you have a team that will make the playoffs. Sometimes a GM will address the fans and tell them they are rebuilding, but most times it's just through actions. Announcing means fire sale and low prices. But anyway, who really cares what they say out loud. His actions will speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 13 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Toffoli was not a "not signing" trade. He had a certain expectation and was signed for this year. He did not ask to be traded. From a cap view alone, his future deal did not fit with the aims of the team. This also flies in the face of making the playoffs every year. The GM (and to a certain extent the owners) evaluate what kind of team they have. Half a year of team struggles does not suggest you have a team that will make the playoffs. Sometimes a GM will address the fans and tell them they are rebuilding, but most times it's just through actions. Announcing means fire sale and low prices. But anyway, who really cares what they say out loud. His actions will speak. I believe Toffoli asked to talk extension but when the enthusiasm wasn't reciprocated, then he asked for a trade. So in the end, Toffoli wanted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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