2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, cberg said:

Unfortunately the time to trade-up is TDL, when picks are given away like candy. At the draft they are valued as gold.

 

Yups for sures.  The opposite of TDL basically.  We missed the chance to turn Markstrom into a 1st round pick (assuming one was offered).  Now we will have to pay double to get NJD's 1st round pick.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

You have to go back to 2008 for the last time a team traded back out of the top 5/6. Leafs had to give up a 2 and a 3 to move up 2 spots to get Luke Schenn. Cost a 2nd for the Preds to go from 9 to 7  that same year too.  Since then the only time a top 10 picks has changed hands is via a player trade. 

 

I think it would be very expensive for the Flames to move up and I think the price tag would be the Vancouver first. I think teams put a really high value on top 10 picks now.

 

Depending on who's still left on the board, I think we should package the Vancouver 1st with Markstrom to get NJD's 1st.  They are a team that is on the verge of greatness and a 9/10/11 pick is going to take 3 to 4 years to get ready.  They are probably very willing to make a deal happen so they can be a playoff team next season.  Meanwhile, the Flames have 3/4 years to develop the prospect so it's a win/win trade for both teams.

 

OTT and BUF have missed the playoffs for so many years consecutively and also have core players entering their prime years... I think they want Andersson or Weegar to accelerate their playoff plans.  Andersson + Vancouver's 1st.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Depending on who's still left on the board, I think we should package the Vancouver 1st with Markstrom to get NJD's 1st.  They are a team that is on the verge of greatness and a 9/10/11 pick is going to take 3 to 4 years to get ready.  They are probably very willing to make a deal happen so they can be a playoff team next season.  Meanwhile, the Flames have 3/4 years to develop the prospect so it's a win/win trade for both teams.

 

OTT and BUF have missed the playoffs for so many years consecutively and also have core players entering their prime years... I think they want Andersson or Weegar to accelerate their playoff plans.  Andersson + Vancouver's 1st.

can we do a Markstrom and Andersson with salary retained? Then their 1st and Holtz or something like that? 
 

I have this eerie feeling we dropped the ball on not trading Markstrom at the deadline. It's going to cost us more if we wanna trade, or it turns into same deal but the 2025 first?
 

Silly not to trade Markstrom when it could have given the devils 3 runs possibly instead of 2, since they probably felt he was the missing link when they were close enough to sniff the playoffs.

[cross16]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Depending on who's still left on the board, I think we should package the Vancouver 1st with Markstrom to get NJD's 1st.  They are a team that is on the verge of greatness and a 9/10/11 pick is going to take 3 to 4 years to get ready.  They are probably very willing to make a deal happen so they can be a playoff team next season.  Meanwhile, the Flames have 3/4 years to develop the prospect so it's a win/win trade for both teams.

 

OTT and BUF have missed the playoffs for so many years consecutively and also have core players entering their prime years... I think they want Andersson or Weegar to accelerate their playoff plans.  Andersson + Vancouver's 1st.

That’s a bad deal for the flames IMo. I wouldn’t do that. 

[jjgallow]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Depending on who's still left on the board, I think we should package the Vancouver 1st with Markstrom to get NJD's 1st.  They are a team that is on the verge of greatness and a 9/10/11 pick is going to take 3 to 4 years to get ready.  They are probably very willing to make a deal happen so they can be a playoff team next season.  Meanwhile, the Flames have 3/4 years to develop the prospect so it's a win/win trade for both teams.

 

OTT and BUF have missed the playoffs for so many years consecutively and also have core players entering their prime years... I think they want Andersson or Weegar to accelerate their playoff plans.  Andersson + Vancouver's 1st.

 

I personally give this one the thumbs up.   Depending of course on where NJ's and Van's picks end up.

Logic:  Any time you can get a top 10 pick, you get that top 10 pick.

 

We need one elite D, and...well, Tij, out of this draft.  This gets it done.  Quality over quantity.  Gives NJ an out to explain to their fans too.

 

Simply put, drafting Is getting better very gradually and there IS a big difference between 10 spots in the first round.

 

Arguments against this and my counters to them:

1.  We would not have had to give up the 1st if we'd done this at the trade deadline.

       *True, but we don't have a time machine.

 

2.  Markstrom will command more than this

      *No he won't

 

4.  We should never give up picks in a rebuild/retool

     *Unless it's an upgrade.   We can and should re-obtain a late-round first through other means after.
           We cannot typically obtain a top 10 pick.

 

 

 

[cberg]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

That’s a bad deal for the flames IMo. I wouldn’t do that. 

Agree, at TDL everyone was clamoring for a 1st, A prospect plus 1-2 other pieces for Markstrom, now at the draft it’s Markstrom plus the Vancouver first to move up. Crazy!

[cberg]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I personally give this one the thumbs up.   Depending of course on where NJ's and Van's picks end up.

Logic:  Any time you can get a top 10 pick, you get that top 10 pick.

 

We need one elite D, and...well, Tij, out of this draft.  This gets it done.  Quality over quantity.  Gives NJ an out to explain to their fans too.

 

Simply put, drafting Is getting better very gradually and there IS a big difference between 10 spots in the first round.

 

Arguments against this and my counters to them:

1.  We would not have had to give up the 1st if we'd done this at the trade deadline.

       *True, but we don't have a time machine.

 

2.  Markstrom will command more than this

      *No he won't

 

4.  We should never give up picks in a rebuild/retool

     *Unless it's an upgrade.   We can and should re-obtain a late-round first through other means after.
           We cannot typically obtain a top 10 pick.

 

 

 

If we focus on trialling prospects these last 15 games we’ll end up with a top 10 pick ourselves.  Upgrading from VCRs pick shouldn’t be massively expensive, or trading for it should also be possible(eg Anderson, Markstrom).  

[robrob74]

37 minutes ago, cberg said:

If we focus on trialling prospects these last 15 games we’ll end up with a top 10 pick ourselves.  Upgrading from VCRs pick shouldn’t be massively expensive, or trading for it should also be possible(eg Anderson, Markstrom).  

i think if jersey stays out of the top 10 and is drafting 10-12 it could be a Markstrom for their first. The idea is that before the deadline Holtz was included based on the chance the pick would have been around 20 or later. 
 

it depends on the market. Typically rentals cost more at TDL but then draft picks cost more at the draft because of potential and value of having ELC in a roster in a few years when teams will contend... 

 

teams are willing to gamble for a chance at a cup at the deadline. 

[travel_dude]

Maybe I undervalue the 1st rounder in the 10 to 12 range of NJ's.

In relation to trading Markstrom for it, that is.

If that's all we wanted, it would have been done.

 

I see no point in keeping him; we are not a playoff team next season.

At worst, a protected 1st (lotto protected only) in 2025, a young player and a prospect.

If it's a Mercer, then forgo the 1st.

If it's Holtz, then a 1st.

The prospect is for the retained salary.

 

We have supplemental picks in the 2nd to 4th rounds, depending on VAN and VGK results.

I think the lokgc for trading any of those picks is to move up in a round if we see the guy we want.

Like a 2nd plus a 4th to move up 5 spots in the 2nd.

[Thebrewcrew]

Take this with a grain of salt, but I have a buddy that works for a WHL team.

 

He's told me that the Flames have watched a lot of the Kelowna Rockets and the Flames haven't yet been told "no" regarding Tij.

 

I'm by no means saying this will or won't happen, just been told by someone with some insight that it hasn't yet been ruled out. An example would be Ridly Greig. His dad works for Philly and they had an agreement the Flyers wouldn't take his son. That hasn't happened yet.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Take this with a grain of salt, but I have a buddy that works for a WHL team.

 

He's told me that the Flames have watched a lot of the Kelowna Rockets and the Flames haven't yet been told "no" regarding Tij.

 

I'm by no means saying this will or won't happen, just been told by someone with some insight that it hasn't yet been ruled out. An example would be Ridly Greig. His dad works for Philly and they had an agreement the Flyers wouldn't take his son. That hasn't happened yet.

 

for me it's like playing poker, would the Flames want to play that hand so soon, to let everyone know they want or don't want to draft someone? For me it's a closer to the draft thing. 
 

I just hope we don't go reaching. I feel Honzek was a touch a reach... but not much. Not the player. 

[Thebrewcrew]

17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I just hope we don't go reaching. I feel Honzek was a touch a reach... but not much. Not the player. 

I wasn't high on Honzek at all last year, there were probably six or seven guys I would have taken instead.

 

The guy I would have taken is Colby Barlow, he went to WPG. He scored 40 goals in 50 games this year. Honzek had injuries, but regressed this season. Now to be fair, Barlow can sure score, but his playmaking regressed drastically this year. Too early to say which was the right pick.

[Thebrewcrew]

This is a good draft.

 

Two 30 goal D being available is incredibly rare, they aren't even the best D in this class.

 

Just by looking at central scoutings midterm's, you can get a very good player well into the third round.

 

Anthony Romani- passed over in the draft last year. 109pts this year.

Justin Poirier- Jeremie's brother. 50 goal scorer as a 17yr old in the Q. He's going to slide because he's 5'8

Hiroki Gojsic- Plays on Kelowna. RHS C. This was his rookie year, he's gotten better as the season has went on.

 

Plenty of steady D available too. Charlie Elick, Colton Roberts, Alexis Bernier.

 

With five or six picks in the first three rounds, this is an opportunity for the Flames to drastically reshape their prospect pool.

[jjgallow]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I wasn't high on Honzek at all last year, there were probably six or seven guys I would have taken instead.

 

The guy I would have taken is Colby Barlow, he went to WPG. He scored 40 goals in 50 games this year. Honzek had injuries, but regressed this season. Now to be fair, Barlow can sure score, but his playmaking regressed drastically this year. Too early to say which was the right pick.

 

I love this game.  as some here know.   My choice for the spot was Pellika, all day long.

 

My fave strategy would have been sell at the trade deadline, and fail for Michkov.  OR, upgrade for Michkov.

 

We will also so here.   

 

Zary's proven that it's too early to count these guys out.   

[Thebrewcrew]

30 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I love this game.  as some here know.   My choice for the spot was Pellika, all day long.

 

My fave strategy would have been sell at the trade deadline, and fail for Michkov.  OR, upgrade for Michkov.

 

We will also so here.   

 

Zary's proven that it's too early to count these guys out.   

Sandin-Pellika was on the list for me too, as guys I was higher on. Barlow/ASP/Heidt/Moore/Cristall were some of those guys for me last year.

 

Anyway, hopefully it works out, there's still time. I've watched the Giants quite a bit this year. Honzek and Lipinski are both 2004's. Lipinski isn't as talented as Honzek, so the bar isn't necessarily as high, but Lipinski took a bigger step this year than Honzek. The injury may have been a factor too. I'm also just really impressed with Lipinski, led VAN in points, essentially doubled his faceoff wins this year. He's improved every year, which is exactly what you want.

[Thebrewcrew]

The Flames are going to have a hard time picking ahead of the Penguins.

 

That is a real bad team. They’re in for some Chicago-esque suck.

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Flames are going to have a hard time picking ahead of the Penguins.

 

That is a real bad team. They’re in for some Chicago-esque suck.

they'll get the Chicago treatment as well and win the lottery. 

[robrob74]

Looks like the best we can do if we won lotto is draft 2nd overall in our current 12th spot. We need to drop a few more to get slightly better odds, and only one spot to have a chance at 1st overall. 

[Thebrewcrew]

39 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Looks like the best we can do if we won lotto is draft 2nd overall in our current 12th spot. We need to drop a few more to get slightly better odds, and only one spot to have a chance at 1st overall. 

If the Flames can pick in the top 13, I would feel good about it.

 

Want the top ten though so the lotto at least feels *plausible*

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The Flames are going to have a hard time picking ahead of the Penguins.

 

That is a real bad team. They’re in for some Chicago-esque suck.

 

For all the suck-it-tude, they are merely one back of us.

[Thebrewcrew]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

For all the suck-it-tude, they are merely one back of us.

Watched their game against the Avs this afternoon. As soon as the Avs made it 4-1, it felt like the Penguins were in trouble

 

They can't hold a lead, same thing that happened on Kipper night.

 

 

Seattle is also really bad. I don't know if the Flames can finish with a worse record than the Kraken, given how poorly they're playing

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Watched their game against the Avs this afternoon. As soon as the Avs made it 4-1, it felt like the Penguins were in trouble

 

They can't hold a lead, same thing that happened on Kipper night.

 

 

Seattle is also really bad. I don't know if the Flames can finish with a worse record than the Kraken, given how poorly they're playing

 

The weird thing is that teams like Buffalo and MTL and Ottawa are starting to gain some wins.  

There appears to be only 5 teams that will never catch us.

I didn't include ARI, even though they are only 1 back of MTL.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The weird thing is that teams like Buffalo and MTL and Ottawa are starting to gain some wins.  

There appears to be only 5 teams that will never catch us.

I didn't include ARI, even though they are only 1 back of MTL.

 

This is the time of year where (Maybe more theoretically) other teams start their backups against the teams that are clearly out. Hope that happens a lot and they can get a few extra points. I've never been a team tank, no!

[travel_dude]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

This is the time of year where (Maybe more theoretically) other teams start their backups against the teams that are clearly out. Hope that happens a lot and they can get a few extra points. I've never been a team tank, no!

 

We have had a much harder time against the backups, right?

Unlike most of the spoler teams, we aren't playing young guns to give them reps.

Other than one goal tonight I didn't like, I don't think Markstrom would have fared better.

Wolf made several stops that easily could have been a goal against either of our other goalies.

 

The next 3 are against teams we have lost to.

April we play WPG, EDM, LA and VAN.

That leaves 4 trap games.

Points are important to every team in all but 5 games.

 

We are pooched.  LOL.

We have 2 call ups left to bring up guys and Coronato in the dog house.

 

[The_People1]

Clutch loss to BUF.  We need to drop the CHI game coming up.  13-games left and 6 look winnable.  CHI, ANA, SJS, ANA, ARZ, and SJS.

 

6-7 and 5-8 could make a huge difference.  Could be the difference between picking 12 or 13 and really not getting to take the player we really like.