2024 NHL draft - A New Hope

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cberg said:

Brzuchenivhic(sp?

Let's just go with Bruce. lol

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm framing it one vs the other because the elite picks generally come from higher picks.  "Generally" right?  Just playing the odds.

 

Of course we eventually need depth.  I'm just arguing early stage rebuilds need to prioritize high picks.  It's a game within the game so to speak.  You don't want depth to rise too fast that you leave the basement too early and rob the team of franchise altering high picks at critical times.  

 

It doesn't always work so perfectly, I understand.  I'm talking more philosophy than suggesting fool proof methods of rebuilding.  The Flames, even now, have depth galore but no elite game breakers.  No need to keep getting depth.  Time to trade that in to improve whatever little chance 12-15th pick has over 2-3 mid-tier assets.

 

Scouting and prospect analysis is improving.   We gradually see less and less surprises.    

 

In this kind of debate people bring up the Gaudreaus a lot.

 

Love Gaudreau.  But imho he is not a core piece of a playoff team.  He is a regular season player.   As such,  he should have been traded during one of his peak value seasons.

 

Elite players Can be acquired in later rounds and even undrafted.   But it gradually is becoming less and less common, and when it does there are usually big caveats.

 

You need it all.     But I would take 1 first rounder for 200 6th rounders.

[420since1974]

There are a couple of intriguing, fast skating, big men who are predicted to be available when Calgary uses their pick in the second round (38th - 44th overall).

 

Adam Jecho, 6'5", 201 lbs. Right side shooting RW who played for the WHL Oil Kings this season.

23g + 24a = 47p in 54 games.

He will be back in the WHL next season.

 

Dean Letourneau, 6'7", 209 lbs. Right side shooting C who played for St. Andrews College this season.

61g + 66a = 127p in 56 games.

He will play for Boston College next season.

 

Neither of them are projected to be elite; middle 6 at the NHL level would probably be their ceiling.

[cberg]

25 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

There are a couple of intriguing, fast skating, big men who are predicted to be available when Calgary uses their pick in the second round (38th - 44th overall).

 

Adam Jecho, 6'5", 201 lbs. Right side shooting RW who played for the WHL Oil Kings this season.

23g + 24a = 47p in 54 games.

He will be back in the WHL next season.

 

Dean Letourneau, 6'7", 209 lbs. Right side shooting C who played for St. Andrews College this season.

61g + 66a = 127p in 56 games.

He will play for Boston College next season.

 

Neither of them are projected to be elite; middle 6 at the NHL level would probably be their ceiling.

DeanLetourneau has come up in a detailed report last week and just was the Flames second 1st pick on an ESPN MOCK DRAFT.  From a hockey perspective could be a massive home run, but hasn’t had normal competition so could be a strikeout.  Of course most picks are strikeouts so I’d take the swing.  Very high potential ceiling.

[Thebrewcrew]

I’m at the Red Deer Medicine Hat game tonight.

 

 

Notable Flames contingent in the stands. No coincidence that Lindstrom is back for the playoffs. Andrew Basha is really good too. 

[redfire11]

2017/18 Vegas Golden Knights.  No elite players on their roster castoffs mostly. Elite coaching that put good players in positions to maximize their strengths. 

"Just sayin"

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

2017/18 Vegas Golden Knights.  No elite players on their roster castoffs mostly. Elite coaching that put good players in positions to maximize their strengths. 

"Just sayin"

 

2017/18 VGK.  No elite.  No Cup.

2022/23 VGK.  Some elite.  Win Cup.

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

2017/18 VGK.  No elite.  No Cup.

2022/23 VGK.  Some elite.  Win Cup.

 

 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, sak22 said:

You also don't want good but not elite pieces rising too fast making the team better (ex. Monahan and Gaudreau), but not good enough to go all the way.  The thing as I mentioned with Chicago earlier is all the solid depth guys were in the minors winning while the big team sucked allowing for a chance at Toews and Kane.  

so basically, let guys develop even if they could be on par with NHL players? Like allowing Monahan an extra Jr year, not you saying that.... and Benny too. Tkachuk was good to play with Backs... but ya.

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

so basically, let guys develop even if they could be on par with NHL players? Like allowing Monahan an extra Jr year, not you saying that.... and Benny too. Tkachuk was good to play with Backs... but ya.

 

basically imho this is about building out from the net.  I mean not only that, but a few punk wingers can make you look a lot better than you are and won't be able to reproduce it in the playoffs when teams are serious.

 

those young punk forwards should be the last add, and when they are added they should be the very best of the best and be able to reproduce in playoffs, otherwise not much point to them.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

basically imho this is about building out from the net.  I mean not only that, but a few punk wingers can make you look a lot better than you are and won't be able to reproduce it in the playoffs when teams are serious.

 

those young punk forwards should be the last add, and when they are added they should be the very best of the best and be able to reproduce in playoffs, otherwise not much point to them.

while I agree, I think Johnny could be good, IF he had more around him. Him alone doesn't cut it and that's all the Flames had when they had him. Not the same but similar to the shortsightedness of trying to build around Iginla. The player was there, but nothing else other than Reggie. 
 

the philosophy needs to change and we need some superstar picks. 
 

im more in line with the goalie is important but not as important as the elite defender and center. But that doesn't mean the goalie is not a good goalie. Elliot looked great in a blues uniform. But we didn't have the same level of defenders the Blues had. 

[jjgallow]

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

while I agree, I think Johnny could be good, IF he had more around him. Him alone doesn't cut it and that's all the Flames had when they had him. Not the same but similar to the shortsightedness of trying to build around Iginla. The player was there, but nothing else other than Reggie. 
 

the philosophy needs to change and we need some superstar picks. 
 

im more in line with the goalie is important but not as important as the elite defender and center. But that doesn't mean the goalie is not a good goalie. Elliot looked great in a blues uniform. But we didn't have the same level of defenders the Blues had. 

 

Yeah I'm not hating on all small players and I Do hope we draft one or two.   Some high-scoring 5'6 kid.  Gotta do that now and then.   It paid off with Gaudreau, and it might pay off with Wolf, we'll see.

 

Gaudreau was really exceptional though, because he was a true small player.  Didn't have the Mangiapane physicallity...didn't have the Martin St Louis tree trunks.   He needs space to operate and there is not a lot of space in the playoffs.   You might be right, maybe he would be great in the right environment.   But I feel like it would need to be a team of fast-skating giants.   We just weren't that, and you don't see it much either.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

You need it all.     But I would take 1 first rounder for 200 6th rounders.

So to clarify, you would rather have 1 17-18 kid ranked in the top 32 in the world, rather than all the 160 to 360 ranked players.

Ladies and Gentleman and everyone in-between, we have a trade to announce. conundrumed is trading the 16thoa pick to jjgallow, in exchange for EVERYBODY's 6th rd pick starting this year through the 2031 draft.

Pick 17: Ladies and Gentleman and everyone in-between, we have a trade to announce. conundrumed is trading picks 160 to 176 in this year's draft for the 17th oa in the 2024 draft.

Damn, who wants a jr scouting job, I'm desperate? lol

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

So to clarify, you would rather have 1 17-18 kid ranked in the top 32 in the world, rather than all the 160 to 360 ranked players.

Ladies and Gentleman and everyone in-between, we have a trade to announce. conundrumed is trading the 16thoa pick to jjgallow, in exchange for EVERYBODY's 6th rd pick starting this year through the 2031 draft.

Pick 17: Ladies and Gentleman and everyone in-between, we have a trade to announce. conundrumed is trading picks 160 to 176 in this year's draft for the 17th oa in the 2024 draft.

Damn, who wants a jr scouting job, I'm desperate? lol

 

I was being semi-sarcastic, but given that the 6th round can and does span 6 years without a single impact player, I don't believe anyone would take you up on that 17oa.

 

If they did, I can confirm that Tij would be taken lol

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

so basically, let guys develop even if they could be on par with NHL players? Like allowing Monahan an extra Jr year, not you saying that.... and Benny too. Tkachuk was good to play with Backs... but ya.

Getzlaf and Perry. Demoted to the A early in their rookie season to "develop chemistry" and get more, "quality ice time". 2 months of devastating the A, and the rest is history.

It's not like they sucked starting in the NHL prior to demotion, just needed more time together without forcing the issue at the top level.

I really enjoyed Burke's handling of some media trying to spin the negatives. For all of his faults and files, I quite admire how Burke handles the media.

At his 1st Flames camp, I pulled up beside a truck and noticed it was identical to mine. Lo and behold if it wasn't Burke hopping out. He was head down and looking like he was trying not to be noticed. I yelled, "Hey" and he turned to me looking anxious. I walked up to him pointing at our trucks and said, "nice truck man". He laughed and said, "oh, you too". We walked in and I just said, "I'm here to watch, not harass" and he said, "good to hear". Then we just exchanged niceties, "hope your settling into Calgary alright" etc.

That would have been the camp of the 1st Gaudreau glimpse, pretty sure @cross16 was there, but we've never met. Mony couldn't win a faceoff, JG, if he weren't JG, would have been destroyed behind the net by a giant AHL-grunt dman. Conroy and BT were sitting across the aisle from me. Conroy went pale. I said, that was close, he said, no kidding, and rubbed his face. lol

I was getting some cool pics and vid behind the net on the B ice, or whatever it's called, when Backlund whacked his stick on the glass, ruining my view after a whistle and started laughing. I yelled, "hey it's for my 8yo" and he yelled back, "oh sorry".

Had a great chat with Peter Loubardias and walked away telling myself, "okay, he's not a blowhard, he's just exceptionally excited about every player, every day". lol I only found out later that my cousin knows him really well from scouting the dub at the time.

Sorry for, yet again, the long wind, but going to those camps for a couple of years was great mems. That was my very first. I was ALWAYS working, but had become a Mgr rather than a field guy.

It's really a great experience, outside of a few overzealous fans that don't seem to have any acknowledgement of boundaries. One guy yelled up to Conroy, "hey Craig, is Mony gonna win a draw"? I despise Satoshi Nakamoto like that.

Sure enough, he was behind me at the little concession bar and we didn't become friends. lol

I can be, "expressive", I guess you'd call it. I tried to be nice about it, but ended up saying, "well have fun gloating to all of your internet friends how important you are". He told me to have sex with myself.

My area is rife with know-it-all fans that I openly despise, unbearable misery. lol Even half of the scouts.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I was being semi-sarcastic, but given that the 6th round can and does span 6 years without a single impact player, I don't believe anyone would take you up on that 17oa.

 

If they did, I can confirm that Tij would be taken lol

I can take the compelling 7th rders with all of those picks too. lol

This whole Tij thing is out of control. He literally grew up with dad saying, "hey boys, let's go out to Confederation Park and have a sports day and a bbq lunch - not". The fun things that we all want to do with our kids.

So do you think Tij would like to start a family and raise his kids in the massively sheltered environment that he was raised in? Or does he remember Pittsbugh, Boston and Denver, where they could actually be comparably free of that?

[jjgallow]

7 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I can take the compelling 7th rders with all of those picks too. lol

This whole Tij thing is out of control. He literally grew up with dad saying, "hey boys, let's go out to Confederation Park and have a sports day and a bbq lunch - not". The fun things that we all want to do with our kids.

So do you think Tij would like to start a family and raise his kids in the massively sheltered environment that he was raised in? Or does he remember Pittsbugh, Boston and Denver, where they could actually be comparably free of that?

 

Nobody is ever going to conceive a child based on their proximity to confederation park, ever.

[jjgallow]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

Nobody is ever going to conceive a child based on their proximity to confederation park, ever.

 

on purpose, I mean

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Nobody is ever going to conceive a child based on their proximity to confederation park, ever.

Really? Cambrian Heights was fantastic when I lived there. City views from the dining room, 4-level split, 5 bdrm, 3 baths. $160,000 when I bought in '94. Gold mine. In 16 yrs when I sold it, the value had increased ridiculously. Made me wish that I'd also purchased my neighbour's house when he passed away. Smaller, maybe '99ish, hit the market for $120,000. I could have, but that would have interrupted my goal of living for regrets. lol Great neighbourhood. Likely a hidden gem in Calgary to this day. All of my neighbours were retirees and as casual and welcoming as the day is long. I got reeeaaally lucky, because I didn't know Calgary well. I was supposed to be renting it. Told my landlord that I'd show up, "some time in October". Well, deep hole with water, he was old and a drunk. We drove for 3 days with all of our worldly belongings to arrive at about 11pm to a for sale sign. He was there. I'm not even kidding, pouring the "sweat" out of his beer cans to make half a glass and pulling butts out of the ashtray. I talked to his realtor in the morning. She called. I told her who I was, he cashed my first and last, and I have a 12 month contract. She was livid. He hadn't disclosed that little fact.

I literally can't say enough about TD bank at Southland. Sarnia told me to transfer to that bank. I had a healthy amount of float money for the move. The 25% down was all of it. I was completely frazzled by this unforeseen bs and a little terrified that now, life is pretty upside down. I came with a nice place to stay, see how it goes, and now even where we'll live is sketchy af. They almost entirely took over the sale. Need an inspector, need a lawyer, an adjudicator to deal with the selling agent. So the home sale was $125,00, but all the fees etc brought it to about $160,00. 1st time home buyer. Really, I came to Calgary having been hired, but unsure how it would go. I was 25. If they hadn't grabbed that bull by the horns, I'm entirely uncertain where I'd be today.

They really, really went to bat for me. I likely would have crumbled if it weren't for them. 14 yrs removed, I still run some things through them.

Fun story, but regardless:

I was more talking about even taking them to a quieter park area.

Oh, and I highly doubt that it's still a retirement neighbourhood. But take a drive up there sometime. Memorial Drive area views, just further back. And Confed Park was fantastic for an "inner-city" park. Great Christmas Lights display.

Ahh the good mems. Love that area.

[jjgallow]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Really? Cambrian Heights was fantastic when I lived there. City views from the dining room, 4-level split, 5 bdrm, 3 baths. $160,000 when I bought in '94. Gold mine. In 16 yrs when I sold it, the value had increased ridiculously. Made me wish that I'd also purchased my neighbour's house when he passed away. Smaller, maybe '99ish, hit the market for $120,000. I could have, but that would have interrupted my goal of living for regrets. lol Great neighbourhood. Likely a hidden gem in Calgary to this day. All of my neighbours were retirees and as casual and welcoming as the day is long. I got reeeaaally lucky, because I didn't know Calgary well. I was supposed to be renting it. Told my landlord that I'd show up, "some time in October". Well, deep hole with water, he was old and a drunk. We drove for 3 days with all of our worldly belongings to arrive at about 11pm to a for sale sign. He was there. I'm not even kidding, pouring the "sweat" out of his beer cans to make half a glass and pulling butts out of the ashtray. I talked to his realtor in the morning. She called. I told her who I was, he cashed my first and last, and I have a 12 month contract. She was livid. He hadn't disclosed that little fact.

I literally can't say enough about TD bank at Southland. Sarnia told me to transfer to that bank. I had a healthy amount of float money for the move. The 25% down was all of it. I was completely frazzled by this unforeseen bs and a little terrified that now, life is pretty upside down. I came with a nice place to stay, see how it goes, and now even where we'll live is sketchy af. They almost entirely took over the sale. Need an inspector, need a lawyer, an adjudicator to deal with the selling agent. So the home sale was $125,00, but all the fees etc brought it to about $160,00. 1st time home buyer. Really, I came to Calgary having been hired, but unsure how it would go. I was 25. If they hadn't grabbed that bull by the horns, I'm entirely uncertain where I'd be today.

They really, really went to bat for me. I likely would have crumbled if it weren't for them. 14 yrs removed, I still run some things through them.

Fun story, but regardless:

I was more talking about even taking them to a quieter park area.

Oh, and I highly doubt that it's still a retirement neighbourhood. But take a drive up there sometime. Memorial Drive area views, just further back. And Confed Park was fantastic for an "inner-city" park. Great Christmas Lights display.

Ahh the good mems. Love that area.

 

My best bud lived there got nothing against it.   Spent a good amount of time there.  The park itself is actually just a water reservoir.   But anyhow, Tij won't go away.   Unless he flops, and odds are he won't.  His brother will enter the scene, and then things will be all that much more.  Their Dad will re-enter the hockey scene with them grown up.

 

This is a tiny, tiny thread in a tiny, tiny chat group with small number of people who think 4-5 years ahead.

 

it will not...go..away, it will almost certainly do the opposite no matter who drafts him and his brother lol.

 

A little thing to keep in mind, everyone comes from a different background and not Every kid wants to escape their Dad's shadow at 17, or plan their familly.   Iginla took his kids to Lake country for a reason, one that you alluded to, money can solve a lotta problems, sucks for us peasants to hear but there's just no way this kid's like super jealous of the people at confed park.

 

A little something about Iginla, he did not get the dream parental upbringing that many of us take for granted.  And, it certainly looks like he's made up for that with the familly he made.   We can't assume to understand the values he's instilled in his kids, or how they think.   But we can be sure that they will tell the scouts what they need to know in the interview.   which is all that's needed here.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

My best bud lived there got nothing against it.   Spent a good amount of time there.  The park itself is actually just a water reservoir.   But anyhow, Tij won't go away.   Unless he flops, and odds are he won't.  His brother will enter the scene, and then things will be all that much more.  Their Dad will re-enter the hockey scene with them grown up.

 

This is a tiny, tiny thread in a tiny, tiny chat group with small number of people who think 4-5 years ahead.

 

it will not...go..away, it will almost certainly do the opposite no matter who drafts him and his brother lol.

 

A little think to keep in mind, everyone comes from a different background and not Every kid wants to scape their Dad's shadow at 17, or plan their familly.   Iginla took his kids to Lake country for a reason, one that you alluded to, money can solve a lotta problems, sucks for us peasants to hear but there's just no way this kid's like super jealous of the people at confed park.

 

A little something about Iginla, he did not get the dream parental upbringing that many of us take for granted.  And, it certainly looks like he's made up for that with the familly he made.   We can't assume to understand the values he's instilled in his kids, or how they think.   But we can be sure that they will tell the scouts what they need to know in the interview.   which is all that's needed here.

This is the type of delusional hype that I'm talking about.

"No, that stuff doesn't matter".

He's projected to be a 2nd line winger. If he meets that projection, will you be okay with that? Or are you certain that he'll be like his dad? These questions need to be asked.

[jjgallow]

26 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

This is the type of delusional hype that I'm talking about.

"No, that stuff doesn't matter".

He's projected to be a 2nd line winger. If he meets that projection, will you be okay with that? Or are you certain that he'll be like his dad? These questions need to be asked.

 

by who?  you?   You're entitled to your opinion but the consensus is currently first line, has been for a bit now.

 

Actually players who change their projection from 2nd line to 1st line...that's exactly what ya look for.

 

He's his own person, so he will be asked.   that's how it gets solved.

[conundrumed]

26 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

The park itself is actually just a water reservoir.

It never ceases to amaze me when folks brush off the fleeting glimpses of beauty around them. "It's just a reservoir". lol

I think it's what makes people kind of dour and some outright miserable (not saying you). Not even here, 2,400 miles away, is any place, "just a reservoir". It's more accurately described as a refuge for species that ain't us.

So if you suffer from anxiety, depression, etc etc, these are likely the types of places that you need to heal and enjoy nature.Even if you don't, it's just a really nice escape. But therapists don't really make any money from getting back to nature, so that kinda sucks.

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/canada/alberta/confederation-park-trail

 

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It never ceases to amaze me when folks brush off the fleeting glimpses of beauty around them. "It's just a reservoir". lol

I think it's what makes people kind of dour and some outright miserable (not saying you). Not even here, 2,400 miles away, is any place, "just a reservoir". It's more accurately described as a refuge for species that ain't us.

So if you suffer from anxiety, depression, etc etc, these are likely the types of places that you need to heal and enjoy nature.Even if you don't, it's just a really nice escape. But therapists don't really make any money from getting back to nature, so that kinda sucks.

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/canada/alberta/confederation-park-trail

 

 

lol you need to try driving west, that is a man-made stress reliever but sure it's okay.

 

Coolest thing there is a massive network of underground tunnels.  but  i will tell you now it's not on alltrails.

[conundrumed]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

by who?  you?   You're entitled to your opinion but the consensus is currently first line, has been for a bit now.

 

Actually players who change their projection from 2nd line to 1st line...that's exactly what ya look for.

 

He's his own person, so he will be asked.   that's how it gets solved.

Whatevs. Keep flying your flag. I won't be joining you. I'd take Greentree near the same rank, personally. Dude is nails to be a power fwd. Stacked team last year, nothing team this year.

Give me that guy, most days. He's a force, and little is helping him this year.