2023 Offseason

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Maybe something clicks from 26-30 that we aren't seeing. 

 

Given our recent trade history with Florida and others (Monahan), I do expect a pretty high return on Any player we trade, even if they are under-performing.   As long as we do it before the start of the regular season.

 

"Trade with Calgary, make the finals"  is a thing right now.

 

That said, I'm not interested in trading anyone for peanuts.

 

Bare minimum, macadamia.

[tmac70]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't think Hanifin is even that good.  He logs minutes but it's all mid-curve IQ stuff.  He can be replaced if not entirely by Kylington then by committee.

 

Also, we have Poirier coming in 2 years.  Maybe even Kuznetsov.  So trade Hanifin.  Take a small hit this season but future pieces we get back should help us in the long run.

Hanifin reminds me a lot of Ekblad you are always left wanting more. Based on what you're providing right now Hanifin is a better option than Poirier, Kuznetsov, and Kylington. With Kylington you're placing a lot of pressure on a guy that god only knows why he never returned last season to be a game-changer. 

 

Now am I for trading Hanifin for sure, but it all depends on the return. What does he bring back, Columbus seems to be doing a huge retool, they could be an option. The only way you move Hanifin is to free up cap space and hopefully get a top 6 forward, that's it. When you look at our roster and the contracts the white elephant is the 5.8 to Mags is ridiculous. In reality, we need to move cap space to create roster space. We have no 4th line anymore, the only guy we have is Duher at RW.  

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Hanifin reminds me a lot of Ekblad you are always left wanting more. Based on what you're providing right now Hanifin is a better option than Poirier, Kuznetsov, and Kylington. With Kylington you're placing a lot of pressure on a guy that god only knows why he never returned last season to be a game-changer. 

 

Now am I for trading Hanifin for sure, but it all depends on the return. What does he bring back, Columbus seems to be doing a huge retool, they could be an option. The only way you move Hanifin is to free up cap space and hopefully get a top 6 forward, that's it. When you look at our roster and the contracts the white elephant is the 5.8 to Mags is ridiculous. In reality, we need to move cap space to create roster space. We have no 4th line anymore, the only guy we have is Duher at RW.  

 

He seems, to me, like the kind of player Washington would want.  They always go for that stuff.

 

And because of that, they usually have some pretty great draft picks lol.

 

Would be cool to pry their 8th overall so that they can "retool" with Hannifin.   Or really, any draft year...I don't see them going anywhere.

[The_People1]

50 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Hanifin reminds me a lot of Ekblad you are always left wanting more. Based on what you're providing right now Hanifin is a better option than Poirier, Kuznetsov, and Kylington. With Kylington you're placing a lot of pressure on a guy that god only knows why he never returned last season to be a game-changer. 

 

Now am I for trading Hanifin for sure, but it all depends on the return. What does he bring back, Columbus seems to be doing a huge retool, they could be an option. The only way you move Hanifin is to free up cap space and hopefully get a top 6 forward, that's it. When you look at our roster and the contracts the white elephant is the 5.8 to Mags is ridiculous. In reality, we need to move cap space to create roster space. We have no 4th line anymore, the only guy we have is Duher at RW.  

 

By bruh, if we are talking reality, then reality is we shouldn't try to win next season.  Retool for 2025 instead.  Trading Hanifin leaves us with an immediate need on D... should not even be a concern.  Our focus should be long term.  If trading Hanifin helps us long term, take on all the pains in-between.  It will be ugly short term but the future will be brighter than what we have now.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Because his partner is making $4.45-mil x 3 more.  Hanifin is final year.

Now comes the part where we talk about 8 year deals. If you were to offer 8 x $7, offer 6 x $8. I don't mind an extra mil to lessen the term. Won't do 6 @ an extra mil. Okay, we're not doing a sign and trade, go try to get a better deal, we're trading you to the highest bidder.

What I'm getting at, is end the 8yr deals for players 26+. Stop doing them. We'll already have anchors in in 5 years. Why keep up that model? Do a cutoff at 34yo. If the player won't do it, let another team play that game because you're going to be Blockchained in the long run. Draw a line in the sand or get bent over. New GM, new rules. Young players are coming up readier and readier steadily. Don't run a retirement home, everyone is replaceable. Dumping contracts is going to get harder and harder as young talent files in year after year. Stop giving 8 yr deals, or backload them with bonus incentives if that's allowed. Figure out a way, one way or the other. Or you'll end up with 34yo 4th liners lapping the gravy out of your cap.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

What I'm getting at, is end the 8yr deals for players 26+. Stop doing them. We'll already have anchors in in 5 years. Why keep up that model? Do a cutoff at 34yo.

 

Yeah, I think we overreacted on the Tkachuk deal by signing too long.

I have no problem with the players and they likely are the leaders on the team.

But, I'm not really happy with giving long term deals now.

Backlund and Tanev are aging out and should get max 2 years.

Hanifin could get a longer deal, but I'm not really thinking that's a good idea.

He's been in the league so long that he will break down sooner.

 

[conundrumed]

I love Leafs fans are now wild that the Matthews rumour is 2 x 14.5-15mil per. I know where that started. Brian Hayes went on a rant on Overdrive. I watched it...2 days later Leafs fans are bitter like it's true.lol

Like we ever heard a whisper out of Treliving regarding negotiations. Leafs fans are special.

[cross16]

I would only add that my desire to trade Hanifin stems from wanting to rebuild the blueline. I agree that in a vacuum, trading Hanifin is a mistake. You are not going to get replacement value, and you are not going to be able to fill that hole via FA. I'm skeptical you can fill it with Kylington. 

 

For me Hanifin should be traded as part of a plan to rebuild the d core. Use either other assets, or assets you get in the trade, to go target a younger dmen who you can give that opportunity to.  Between Rasmus and Weegar, the Flames have their puck moving, push the puck but play well at both ends dman and they don't need a 3rd in Hanifin IMO. 

 

That and I just don't see Hanifin signing a good deal, but trading him absolutely needs to be part of a bigger plan. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I would only add that my desire to trade Hanifin stems from wanting to rebuild the blueline. I agree that in a vacuum, trading Hanifin is a mistake. You are not going to get replacement value, and you are not going to be able to fill that hole via FA. I'm skeptical you can fill it with Kylington. 

 

For me Hanifin should be traded as part of a plan to rebuild the d core. Use either other assets, or assets you get in the trade, to go target a younger dmen who you can give that opportunity to.  Between Rasmus and Weegar, the Flames have their puck moving, push the puck but play well at both ends dman and they don't need a 3rd in Hanifin IMO. 

 

That and I just don't see Hanifin signing a good deal, but trading him absolutely needs to be part of a bigger plan. 

 

Absolutely.  We have to zoom out and look at the big picture.  Ignore the small dip that trading Hanifin is going to create but the overall trend line will look better moving into the future.

[tmac70]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

By bruh, if we are talking reality, then reality is we shouldn't try to win next season.  Retool for 2025 instead.  Trading Hanifin leaves us with an immediate need on D... should not even be a concern.  Our focus should be long term.  If trading Hanifin helps us long term, take on all the pains in-between.  It will be ugly short term but the future will be brighter than what we have now.

Brother, I hear what you're preaching Unfortunately that's not how this ship is sailed, unfortunately. The mandate is to win and get in, which is why we squander in mediocrity. What your wanting to do makes sense but the only way I see this club going into a retool or rebuild is if Lindholm & Backs are not resigned, then you have no option. If this is what you wish for then all you need is for those 2 to decide they will not resign. 

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

By bruh, if we are talking reality, then reality is we shouldn't try to win next season.  Retool for 2025 instead.  Trading Hanifin leaves us with an immediate need on D... should not even be a concern.  Our focus should be long term.  If trading Hanifin helps us long term, take on all the pains in-between.  It will be ugly short term but the future will be brighter than what we have now.

 

imho, I am already seeing this happening.

 

What's our #1 reason for not making the playoffs?   It's not Sutter.  It's Markstrom.

 

       What are we doing?    We're keeping him for his "bounce back year" 

 

but people say "no, it was the coaching".

 

        Cool.   We're gong internal on that, and NOT promoting our organisation's top coach.

 

 

It's funny because we keep hearing on here about "the organisation said this" or "the organisation did this".

 

 

So

 

1.  they don't have a choice about rebuilding.  this is not really a decision they have anymore

 

2.  they aren't going to announce it.  People be like waiting for the organisation to say "we're gonna try not to win".

       -yeah.  keep waiting on that because no organisation has said that Ever lol

 

......

 

There are a limited number of outcomes here.

[zima]

22 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

imho, I am already seeing this happening.

 

What's our #1 reason for not making the playoffs?   It's not Sutter.  It's Markstrom.

 

       What are we doing?    We're keeping him for his "bounce back year" 

 

but people say "no, it was the coaching".

 

        Cool.   We're gong internal on that, and NOT promoting our organisation's top coach.

 

 

It's funny because we keep hearing on here about "the organisation said this" or "the organisation did this".

 

 

So

 

1.  they don't have a choice about rebuilding.  this is not really a decision they have anymore

 

2.  they aren't going to announce it.  People be like waiting for the organisation to say "we're gonna try not to win".

       -yeah.  keep waiting on that because no organisation has said that Ever lol

 

......

 

There are a limited number of outcomes here.

I agree about the reason we failed last yr Markstrom but trading him now at his lowest is a mistake we need to try and get him back on track and then perhaps trade him when market is at its best for him and bring up Wolf have tree goalies to start see were Vladar ends up he wasn't that bad last yr for a backup we only have him for next yr so hopefully he plays great and we can get a few picks for him because even if he does well he will not resign here.

  

[jjgallow]

29 minutes ago, zima said:

I agree about the reason we failed last yr Markstrom but trading him now at his lowest is a mistake we need to try and get him back on track and then perhaps trade him when market is at its best for him and bring up Wolf have tree goalies to start see were Vladar ends up he wasn't that bad last yr for a backup we only have him for next yr so hopefully he plays great and we can get a few picks for him because even if he does well he will not resign here.

  

 

was that his lowest though?

 

I guess we'll find out soon

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

imho, I am already seeing this happening.

 

What's our #1 reason for not making the playoffs?   It's not Sutter.  It's Markstrom.

 

       What are we doing?    We're keeping him for his "bounce back year" 

 

but people say "no, it was the coaching".

 

        Cool.   We're gong internal on that, and NOT promoting our organisation's top coach.

 

 

It's funny because we keep hearing on here about "the organisation said this" or "the organisation did this".

 

 

So

 

1.  they don't have a choice about rebuilding.  this is not really a decision they have anymore

 

2.  they aren't going to announce it.  People be like waiting for the organisation to say "we're gonna try not to win".

       -yeah.  keep waiting on that because no organisation has said that Ever lol

 

......

 

There are a limited number of outcomes here.

 

Coach goes with the struggling goalie.  Check.

Coach ignores the one goalie that had a winning record and go with the starter.  Check.

Previous season, the goalie starts seemed to match the records.

Result, 11 shutouts for the season.

That was long before the end of the season, so burnout ya know?

 

Asking an AHL coach with no experience coaching NHL players at that level is a little bit like starting Wolf for 82 games.  Chances are he does okay, but chances are he loses confidence.  If you were strictly using AHL players from the last two years, he would have a good impact.  Huska has experience with the guys like Mange, Dube, Ras and Kylington.  Not just in the AHL but in the NHL.

 

I would have preferred a brand name coach or one that has been an assistant on a contender.  But there is no reason why an assistant coach that has been under several NHL coaches hasn't learned a few things.  He would see the mistakes made.

[Thebrewcrew]

Probably two weeks from being forced into a "retool" or "rebuild", call it what you want.

 

But not necessarily a bad thing. 

 

I've said it before, but the focus should be on having a good team by the time the new arena opens. Consequently, if the Flames maintain status quo, that lines up with the Huberdeau's and Kadri's starting to age. Could be a lot of empty seats in a new barn.

 

The Flames have a chance to acquire quite a few picks in the 23 and 24 drafts, just by simply moving pending UFA's, either in summer or at the TDL. 

 

By no means is it guaranteed to work, but if I was the owner, I'd want a competitive team when I open the new rink. Even if it means taking a step back for a couple of seasons. 

[jjgallow]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Coach goes with the struggling goalie.  Check.

Coach ignores the one goalie that had a winning record and go with the starter.  Check.

Previous season, the goalie starts seemed to match the records.

Result, 11 shutouts for the season.

That was long before the end of the season, so burnout ya know?

 

Asking an AHL coach with no experience coaching NHL players at that level is a little bit like starting Wolf for 82 games.  Chances are he does okay, but chances are he loses confidence.  If you were strictly using AHL players from the last two years, he would have a good impact.  Huska has experience with the guys like Mange, Dube, Ras and Kylington.  Not just in the AHL but in the NHL.

 

I would have preferred a brand name coach or one that has been an assistant on a contender.  But there is no reason why an assistant coach that has been under several NHL coaches hasn't learned a few things.  He would see the mistakes made.

 

I hear what you're saying, I do agree that Sutter carries some of the blame.

 

Coaches don't have the ability to gut organisations the way ours has been gutted.   But sure he takes some of it.

 

So rookie coaches:   Most of the best coaches in the league were extremely effective in their rookie year.  And often went from head coach to head coach.

 

Including your buddy Sutter.  And Hartley (Hartley is still rocking it btw) and others.

 

Anyway I get your point.

 

Whats up with Hartley btw?   The sudden love followed by sudden hate, I don't buy it.   He went to the KHL and is absolutely dominant there, language barrier and all.   Clearly brilliant.  

 

Why is he in the KHL?   Did he offend somebody or do something that has not surfaced?  Maybe under contract?  With his record you would think teams would be begging for him to come back.

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Brother, I hear what you're preaching Unfortunately that's not how this ship is sailed, unfortunately. The mandate is to win and get in, which is why we squander in mediocrity. What your wanting to do makes sense but the only way I see this club going into a retool or rebuild is if Lindholm & Backs are not resigned, then you have no option. If this is what you wish for then all you need is for those 2 to decide they will not resign. 

 

I know I know.  We are on the same page.

 

It's going to be interesting what direction Conroy decides to go.

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

imho, I am already seeing this happening.

 

What's our #1 reason for not making the playoffs?   It's not Sutter.  It's Markstrom.

 

       What are we doing?    We're keeping him for his "bounce back year" 

 

but people say "no, it was the coaching".

 

        Cool.   We're gong internal on that, and NOT promoting our organisation's top coach.

 

 

It's funny because we keep hearing on here about "the organisation said this" or "the organisation did this".

 

 

So

 

1.  they don't have a choice about rebuilding.  this is not really a decision they have anymore

 

2.  they aren't going to announce it.  People be like waiting for the organisation to say "we're gonna try not to win".

       -yeah.  keep waiting on that because no organisation has said that Ever lol

 

......

 

There are a limited number of outcomes here.

 

First couple of moves from Conroy will be very telling.  I know I shouldn't have my hopes up but still... 

[Ryan Man]

I'm purely spculating and perhaps reading into what I see a bit.. but..
With the non committal exit interview with Elias Lindholm and Treliving landing in Toronto is there any (in the view of those who live in NA) thought/possibility that we could be a fit in trade with Toronto? 
Tor - Lindholm + Markstrom (NMC) +
Cgy - Marner/Nylander +

I doubt Marner is on the cards which is fine but with Tre in TO and the possibility of Marky and Lindy wanting to play at some point agian with Jarnkrok there appears to be a fit potentially?

Any thoughts and feedback is welcome.. 

[conundrumed]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

I would only add that my desire to trade Hanifin stems from wanting to rebuild the blueline. I agree that in a vacuum, trading Hanifin is a mistake. You are not going to get replacement value, and you are not going to be able to fill that hole via FA. I'm skeptical you can fill it with Kylington. 

 

For me Hanifin should be traded as part of a plan to rebuild the d core. Use either other assets, or assets you get in the trade, to go target a younger dmen who you can give that opportunity to.  Between Rasmus and Weegar, the Flames have their puck moving, push the puck but play well at both ends dman and they don't need a 3rd in Hanifin IMO. 

 

That and I just don't see Hanifin signing a good deal, but trading him absolutely needs to be part of a bigger plan. 

That's a fair assessment. I agree in that we have 3(4) similar players on D and would gladly trade one for a younger Tanev.

Hanifin-Andersson has always been a bad set up imho. I likely prefer Hanifin to be the rusher in that setup but he plays the more cautious role. As much as his "safety-first" backing off of plays makes me want to pull my hair out at times, I get it.

Now the Kylington hype-train is apparently coming back and yet another Dman that needs an anchor Dman.

The only thing wrong with any of our Dmen is that we only have 1 Tanev. It's also what made Gudbranson so valuable. Even Zadorov needs an anchor partner.

It's really why I wanted to acquire Maatta before Detroit smartly extended him. I don't want the sexy names on D, we have those. I want Dmen (3) that can do the yeoman's work. Not Stecher, Stone etc, forget those guys already.

I was excited about Meloche hoping he could be that mold, but nope. Solid D-first Dmen are becoming a lost art and undervalued.

Hronek wasn't worth a bag of pucks prior to last season. Pair him with Maatta, trade him for a 1st & 2nd. It's almost laughable how underrated having stay-at-home Dmen are. I really hope we don't draft Dmen based on O stats for awhile. We have those guys already and they can flourish with actual Dmen as partners.

So I agree with you. We need a reset on our approach at D.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Whats up with Hartley btw?   The sudden love followed by sudden hate, I don't buy it.   He went to the KHL and is absolutely dominant there, language barrier and all.   Clearly brilliant.  

 

Why is he in the KHL?   Did he offend somebody or do something that has not surfaced?  Maybe under contract?  With his record you would think teams would be begging for him to come back.

 

He's the usual story of a coach that has success.  Thinks he's the reason and goes Full Metal Jacket.

Became toxic.  Took the keys back from the sports car and tried to change what made them work.

Once you go Russian I guess you never come back.

Now is not exatctlt the time for a coach to switch from the KHL to NHL.

Players are one thing, and they have to be careful what they say (both for their families and their career).

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

First couple of moves from Conroy will be very telling.  I know I shouldn't have my hopes up but still... 

 

yup.  not what he says, but what he does.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

He's the usual story of a coach that has success.  Thinks he's the reason and goes Full Metal Jacket.

Became toxic.  Took the keys back from the sports car and tried to change what made them work.

Once you go Russian I guess you never come back.

Now is not exatctlt the time for a coach to switch from the KHL to NHL.

Players are one thing, and they have to be careful what they say (both for their families and their career).

 

maybe, or maybe you're talking about the players but it's too hard to move them.

 

He's absolutely killing it in the KHL.   I'm impressed considering the KHL already has good coaches and he presumably started out with no Russian language.    

 

Just sayin, we have booted a lot of coaches lol.   and a lot of draft picks.

[cross16]

Bob Hartley left the KHL last season. 

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

Bob Hartley left the KHL 2 years ago. 

 

you sure?  I'm seeing stats on him from 2022.   granted I'm not seeing 2023.