GDT Wild @ Flames March 4/22 8pm Start

[DirtyDeeds]

18 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

There isn't one you had one and he left. The best choice for the C was MT, I truely believe give him the C ans he stays. 

I don't think so. MT about a year snd a bit ago had a fight in a corner. Nobody from Flames came in to help. He was never as fiesty after that. No, he would not make a good captain here and was going to leave anyway

[travel_dude]

If we miss the playoffs and somehow manage to win the looot, we have to change the entire coaching staff.  There is nothing to like about the gameplan, whatever it is.  we will finally be rid of Lucic and Lewis, so we stand a chance of icing 4 decent lines.  No way you subject a top prospect to this garbage design.  There is nothing to be inspired with and no set plays that even look to be drawn up.  The players know it and have given up.  Can't say I blame them.  

[DirtyDeeds]

On Eric Francis Fridays... He threw a bomb up on air... typical

 

He said there was a big power struggle within Flames executive. He followed that up with I guess now is not the best time to talk about it... then proceeded to say we(media) will be talking a lot about it in the near future and talk about it some more...

 

He is such a weasel. Then why would you bring it up in the first place????

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

On Eric Francis Fridays... He threw a bomb up on air... typical

 

He said there was a big power struggle within Flames executive. He followed that up with I guess now is not the best time to talk about it... then proceeded to say we(media) will be talking a lot about it in the near future and talk about it some more...

 

He is such a weasel. Then why would you bring it up in the first place????

 

I would be shocked if everything was fine at the executive level right now considering BT's contract is done in about a month.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't think so. MT about a year snd a bit ago had a fight in a corner. Nobody from Flames came in to help. He was never as fiesty after that. No, he would not make a good captain here and was going to leave anyway

they also had the players meeting where I think they basically told him to tone it down after that. He wasn't the same and putting him with Johnny was the best thing for his career. He's also going it now on Florida. Just glad he did the Flames a solid. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Sutter was brough in to change the culture, which I have no issues with the systems or the effort most nights. I will say I have some issues with how the lines are but when your left with crap to coach from the GM there isn't much you can do. Is Tre the worst GM no but he sure isn't a rock star either he is average. Man I remeber this club was a monster and beast to play agaisnt, physical in your face grinding hockey. This franchise is a so far from being what it was, so far. 

 

Currently this year we are the biggest dissappoint in the NHL by a long shot. Really an honour we shouldn't be proud of. 

When was that? It feels like the moment we traded Niewendyk everything stopped. Gilmour trade was the first, but we still had cup pedigree after the trade. I just think the Gilmour trade made too big of a wave.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, medatswhoP said:

Well put, three key components to this:

• Skill, (we do have the skill, like I mentioned earlier on paper we should be better then what our season looks)
• Knowledge (Definitely have the knowledge to make the NHL as a career and each player knows what it takes to be successful)
• Desire this is the problem .. This is what is completely lacking , its a team effort to pull on each other, call yourself and others out. However this starts from leadership. This includes everyone behind the bench not wearing a jersey, as well not having a team captain also contributes to lack of push.

I truly hope off season something gets done.

I think we have skill but I don't know if the skill sets mesh. On paper it looks better, but Sutter has kept lines the same even though they don't match. He's a believer that chemistry isn't a thing and maybe it's not. Maybe guys aren't in synch and not playing for each other. So maybe you're right.

Maybe last year too many were playing for contracts so things mattered more? Certain players that is...

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, medatswhoP said:

Its like watching the NJD all over again with the trap hockey at its best.,, Yawn,...

or the old Minnesota wild. 
 

it can actually be fun to watch if you're not Nucks fan and they play the system "to a T" And come back from a 3-1 deficit  and beat the Nucks 5-3 in game 7 of the playoffs. That was the best game I ever watched. Game 7 min in Van. 
 

Although I was at the game when Engelland fought two Canucks at the same time. That was the best finish to a game. Loved that!!!

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, medatswhoP said:

If Hanafin actually moved his skates he would be a not bad defenceman, but... lazy...

I agree, but I wonder if it's because he has poor reads. He reacts the wrong way a lot and takes himself out of the play. I wonder if he stopped his initial reaction to limit that and then just don't move at all.

[conundrumed]

Well, I'm glad that I've stopped watching. Now make some callups, sit the old guys, tell everyone to just go have fun and maybe I'll watch again.

Loss after loss of changing nothing just isn't worth watching. I can't bare watching that 4th line privilege any longer.

Even my apathy has limits.lol

Total tractor-tire fire.

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I think we have skill but I don't know if the skill sets mesh. On paper it looks better, but Sutter has kept lines the same even though they don't match. He's a believer that chemistry isn't a thing and maybe it's not. Maybe guys aren't in synch and not playing for each other. So maybe you're right.

Maybe last year too many were playing for contracts so things mattered more? Certain players that is...

+1

Maybe I agree because I have been saying it for too long.

There is maybe one play per game of Hubey/Pelts/Kadri doing something together, but mostly it's one person.

Like watching Gaudreau try to take the entire team on.  Or Bennett trying to go through 3 players.

 

Huberdeau maybe didn't fit with Lindholm to begin with.  That was ages ago.  Ruzicka got a short stint up there when Hubey was injured.  That didn't last either.  4th line or scratch for you, mister.  But there are no games where I think Huberdeau fits with Kadri.  Doesn't matter who the winger is.  I think it comes to playing style.  Kadri is more like Mangiapane.  Push, hit, drive, fall.  

 

I almost think you should go with Pelletier-Lindholm-Toffoli.  Mangiapane-Kadri-Coleman. 

Huberdeau-Backlund-Dube.  Leave the zone entries to Backlund. 

I don't know it gets you better defensive play, but the lines play to the strengths of the players.

Instead of asking Huberdeau to play wrong wing, you have Dube where he is comfortable.

Pelletier has a legit target that will actually shoot.

Kadri plays with guys that push the play through.

 

Notice I haven't mentioned the 4th line.

That doesn't matter, since they should be 8 minutes.

You put out players that push the pace when they are out there.

Ritchie-Ruzicka-Duehr.

No room for the others.

They add almost nothing.

[tmac70]

12 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't think so. MT about a year snd a bit ago had a fight in a corner. Nobody from Flames came in to help. He was never as fiesty after that. No, he would not make a good captain here and was going to leave anyway

That is the problem, when you have one guy willing to go to war and the rest wish to just take a shower speaks volumes IMHO. The fact that losing is acceptable is the reason we have a franchise that spews mediocracy constantly. That is the problem we need Warriors, not passengers. The shift in the culture change could easily be corrected by everyone getting on the same page. If you wish to win a championship bring in individuals that know how to, mentors to design the plan, and players willing to sacrifice to do so. The goal here is to get in anything could happen, I guarantee in COl, Tampa same as Boston it's about winning a championship, getting in was never in question or the way they were designed. 

[tmac70]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

When was that? It feels like the moment we traded Niewendyk everything stopped. Gilmour trade was the first, but we still had cup pedigree after the trade. I just think the Gilmour trade made too big of a wave.

When Tre announced he was coming back he made the comment this franchise needs Daryl, Even Sutter made mentioned he was here to change the culture. The problem is the rot runs deeper than you think. 

 

This can be fixed easier than one thinks. The problem is everyone has to be on the same page. There are a couple of  old saying that I use with my high-level players. 

 

Its better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. 

and 

Your world and everything around you will change the minute you change. 

 

We have a get-in attitude and we need an attitude and mindset, design and practice of winning a championship and getting in is never questioned. The standards are to low IMHO 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

That is the problem, when you have one guy willing to go to war and the rest wish to just take a shower speaks volumes IMHO. The fact that losing is acceptable is the reason we have a franchise that spews mediocracy constantly. That is the problem we need Warriors, not passengers. The shift in the culture change could easily be corrected by everyone getting on the same page. If you wish to win a championship bring in individuals that know how to, mentors to design the plan, and players willing to sacrifice to do so. The goal here is to get in anything could happen, I guarantee in COl, Tampa same as Boston it's about winning a championship, getting in was never in question or the way they were designed. 

 

That was also Gio's team.  He was the first to ignore the scene.

When he was gone, Lucic stepped up.

He squared off against Benn in the playoffs and told him he had to go through Lucic.

 

[DirtyDeeds]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Well, I'm glad that I've stopped watching. Now make some callups, sit the old guys, tell everyone to just go have fun and maybe I'll watch again.

Loss after loss of changing nothing just isn't worth watching. I can't bare watching that 4th line privilege any longer.

Even my apathy has limits.lol

Total tractor-tire fire.

Callups unlikely until we are mathematically eliminated. That would be roughly 4 losses. So looking like you won't have to wait long.  I think the number is they need to win 15 of the remaining 19.

 

For The Peeps:

Flames are only 2 points out from bottom 10..   At this rate we are playing we will have a lotto chance pick.

[DirtyDeeds]

10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I think we have skill but I don't know if the skill sets mesh. On paper it looks better, but Sutter has kept lines the same even though they don't match. He's a believer that chemistry isn't a thing and maybe it's not. Maybe guys aren't in synch and not playing for each other. So maybe you're right.

Maybe last year too many were playing for contracts so things mattered more? Certain players that is...

Im pretty sure Dutter uses Al Arbor thinking.. Find  pairings and keep those two together. If someone not fitting put them with another pairing to get them going.

 

This year only Backs has fit with anyone.. I think Backs has been our best and most consistent player all season. Has not mattered who you put with him.

 

I have changed my mind. I think we need a captain. A bunch of A's for leadership isn't cutting it with this bunch. I the current roster can't step up with a leader then we need to go and get one.

[DirtyDeeds]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

 

 

We have a get-in attitude and we need an attitude and mindset, design and practice of winning a championship and getting in is never questioned. The standards are to low IMHO 

This attitude starts from the very top. It is ownership who has directed the Flames with:

Use all the budget you need but make the playoffs.

 

If I was the Ownership I would want the extra playoff revenue too. 

 

Also Dutter did just this in LA... Just got in and anything can happen.

I think his LA team was in 8th place and never lost a game moving up each playoff round. So of course he would think right along with Ownership in that reguard.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Im pretty sure Dutter uses Al Arbor thinking.. Find  pairings and keep those two together. If someone not fitting put them with another pairing to get them going.

 

This year only Backs has fit with anyone.. I think Backs has been our best and most consistent player all season. Has not mattered who you put with him.

 

I have changed my mind. I think we need a captain. A bunch of A's for leadership isn't cutting it with this bunch. I the current roster can't step up with a leader then we need to go and get one.

 

Publicly, Dutter has said he gives ice to the ones performing.  You show something, you move and stay up in the lineup.  It may be duos like Hibey-Pelts, but then you see Lucic getting extra ice with his line.  Or sometimes gets a jump without actually doing anything.  

 

Backs just needs a finisher.  He plays all situations.  Mangiapane struggling isn't on him.  

But we can't be sure what others can do at this stage because we don't see them.

Pelts with Lindholm and Toffoli?  No idea.  Huberdeau with Backlund or Lindholm?

Only a few minutes of that last night.  

Even the idea of Pelts with Ruzie and Duehr is lost.

 

I lean towards a captain as well.  It's nobody's team right now.

Should an aging vet with 4th line minutes have any say in what the team should be doing?

They won a cup on a top team when?

Does Backlund carry any weight when you have 18 other voices out there?

A couple of guys know what it took recently to win a cup, but we aren't a contender to get to it.

Not every game is part of a 7 game series.  You play the same team that much you figure it out.

 

Lack of a C means that the coach is calling the play.

There is no MacKinnon saying "I want this to get back in the game".

 

[travel_dude]

Just now, DirtyDeeds said:

This attitude starts from the very top. It is ownership who has directed the Flames with:

Use all the budget you need but make the playoffs.

 

If I was the Ownership I would want the extra playoff revenue too. 

 

Also Dutter did just this in LA... Just got in and anything can happen.

I think his LA team was in 8th place and never lost a game moving up each playoff round. So of course he would think right along with Ownership in that reguard.

 

And the 2004 Flames.

Proof is not so recent, and seeding is more important than just getting in.

If we managed 8th and DAL was 1st, then we might stand a chance for one round.

Then face the top seeding from the Pacific if they get through.

If it's LA or WPG or EDM or COL or MIN, we just get dummied in round 1.

Last year we ended up with DAL in round one instead of the Preds.

We wasted so much time and effort to win that we had nothing left.

It's not the 2000 and teens.  Just get in only works with flawless G's and perfect circumstances.

 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Publicly, Dutter has said he gives ice to the ones performing.  You show something, you move and stay up in the lineup.  

 

Backs just needs a finisher.  

 

Not every game is part of a 7 game series.  You play the same team that much you figure it out.

 

4 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

This attitude starts from the very top. It is ownership who has directed the Flames with:

Use all the budget you need but make the playoffs.

 

If I was the Ownership I would want the extra playoff revenue too. 

 

Also Dutter did just this in LA... Just got in and anything can happen.

I think his LA team was in 8th place and never lost a game moving up each playoff round. So of course he would think right along with Ownership in that reguard.

 

Dutter won his first cup after LA traded for the Flyers best players and they were favorited to win the pacific division to start that season. They stumbled out the gate and later traded for Carter and I think that completed their team and they didn't look back that season or playoffs. They were one of the contenders going into the regular season but barely got in due to their early play. Maybe Sutter was brought in during the season too if I recall?  
 

i think the blues were also supposed to be better too the year they won going into the season, but eventually caught fire and got good goaltending going into the playoffs. 
 

Earlier this season, I forget who we played but we had two games the same team within 3-4 days, maybe 2 out of 3 games at the time. Someone asked Sutter what the tan can change to get a better fate, systems. He said it wasn't about knowing them better but was about playing the system better, not about adjusting. 
 

in both the Dallas or Edm series, he didn't make any adjustments where the other teams did. I think those changes made a big difference in both series. One bringing us to game 7 and the other knocking us out in 5.

[tmac70]

6 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

This attitude starts from the very top. It is ownership who has directed the Flames with:

Use all the budget you need but make the playoffs.

 

If I was the Ownership I would want the extra playoff revenue too. 

 

Also Dutter did just this in LA... Just got in and anything can happen.

I think his LA team was in 8th place and never lost a game moving up each playoff round. So of course he would think right along with Ownership in that reguard.

Sutter isn't without faults but it starts higher up. As I have mentioned this is a very average attitude. The issue is the Flames do this constantly, be average. Trevling has been preaching this since his arrival. Everyone wants that magical run of 2004 hell no one can deny as a Flames fan it was moving. 

 

Many may not believe it but change the mindset and culture and everything changes it is not Fing complicated. Strange years ago players never wanted to play in the states, especially in the southern parts. Those markets changed what worked against them into a strength, less stress outside the rink, better weather, ect. Where MTL, EDM, CGY were the epitome or standard for hockey, they are now non-desirable destinations to want to play for. Frankly what gets frustrating is it's not that complicated to re-create this organization. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Sutter isn't without faults but it starts higher up. As I have mentioned this is a very average attitude. The issue is the Flames do this constantly, be average. Trevling has been preaching this since his arrival. Everyone wants that magical run of 2004 hell no one can deny as a Flames fan it was moving. 

 

Many may not believe it but change the mindset and culture and everything changes it is not Fing complicated. Strange years ago players never wanted to play in the states, especially in the southern parts. Those markets changed what worked against them into a strength, less stress outside the rink, better weather, ect. Where MTL, EDM, CGY were the epitome or standard for hockey, they are now non-desirable destinations to want to play for. Frankly what gets frustrating is it's not that complicated to re-create this organization. 

 

Well you can blame Covid for Gaudreau wanting out.

Not allowed to visit his family or have them come.

No need to rehash.

Tkachulk was more around hormones.

His old buddy Bennett telling him about the life.

 

Past glories and past culture aside, the team that existed in 2004 wouldn't today anywhere.

The teams want a piece of you for the community.

The coach bag skates you if you don't show him what he wants.

He talks about the team following the system when it wins and not following when it loses.

Not a lot of smoke blown up people's butts, but some harsh words.

Gaudreau joked when someone asked him what Sutter said about the series winning gola.

Coach said good goal and moved walked away.

 

 

Very few on this team execute the gameplan every night, if anyone does.

Some nights there is enough done right to make it a win.

Or the other team is in a funk.

We dominate for 40 minutes and get a goal out of it.

Not for lack of skill, you figure it out.

I'm not talking about Minny.

This happens nightly.

 

[cross16]

13 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Sutter isn't without faults but it starts higher up. As I have mentioned this is a very average attitude. The issue is the Flames do this constantly, be average. Trevling has been preaching this since his arrival. Everyone wants that magical run of 2004 hell no one can deny as a Flames fan it was moving. 

 

Many may not believe it but change the mindset and culture and everything changes it is not Fing complicated. Strange years ago players never wanted to play in the states, especially in the southern parts. Those markets changed what worked against them into a strength, less stress outside the rink, better weather, ect. Where MTL, EDM, CGY were the epitome or standard for hockey, they are now non-desirable destinations to want to play for. Frankly what gets frustrating is it's not that complicated to re-create this organization. 

 

 

And Sutter did when he was the GM too. 

 

The "Be good every year" standard has been in place since the hired him as the coach. 

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

 

And Sutter did when he was the GM too. 

 

The "Be good every year" standard has been in place since the hired him as the coach. 

Which as I said is an organizational problem top to bottom

[tmac70]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well you can blame Covid for Gaudreau wanting out.

Not allowed to visit his family or have them come.

No need to rehash.

Tkachulk was more around hormones.

His old buddy Bennett telling him about the life.

 

Past glories and past culture aside, the team that existed in 2004 wouldn't today anywhere.

The teams want a piece of you for the community.

The coach bag skates you if you don't show him what he wants.

He talks about the team following the system when it wins and not following when it loses.

Not a lot of smoke blown up people's butts, but some harsh words.

Gaudreau joked when someone asked him what Sutter said about the series winning gola.

Coach said good goal and moved walked away.

 

 

Very few on this team execute the gameplan every night, if anyone does.

Some nights there is enough done right to make it a win.

Or the other team is in a funk.

We dominate for 40 minutes and get a goal out of it.

Not for lack of skill, you figure it out.

I'm not talking about Minny.

This happens nightly.

 

 Covid or his wife, I would lean more towards his wife wanting to leave. Covid was and is a convenient excuse for everyone. Also, if no one is willing to stick to a game plan or process that's proven to win, What makes you think the next coach or system will be different or better?

 

 Maybe it's a different culture or mindset, but it's been like this since the beginning of time. Johnny scored a key goal, the small accomplishment of getting the main goal.  A star player that did his role and changed the outcome, that is what he was supposed to do. All that did was move them to the next stage. If all your hung up on and the fans are hung up on is the goal Gaudreau scored and Sutter didn't run through the streets celebrating, You haven't won a Fing thing yet it just gave you the opportunity to advance, still, 12 more wins required.