GDT - FLAMES @ Devils - Tuesday 8 November 2022 AT 5pm MT

[The_Tribal Chief]

tied again

[travel_dude]

Nice deflection or screen Rozie.

That's the way to stay in the lineup.

[travel_dude]

Markstrom had one job.

Stop the puck

[taz89]

You have to make that save, forget this game tonight, its over

[flames for life]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Markstrom had one job.

Stop the puck

Yup.  Them’s  the ones he needs to stop.

Have been pleasantly surprised by Gilbert’s presence.  Playing pretty well.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

10 minutes ago, flames for life said:

Yup.  Them’s  the ones he needs to stop.

Have been pleasantly surprised by Gilbert’s presence.  Playing pretty well.

For the most part I dont think any of the callups seemed too out of place. Z was the one with the off night unfortunately.

[sak22]

12 games in and Brett Ritchie has one less point than Huberdeau, and one more point than Mangiapane, Dube and Coleman.  Add in that Trevor Lewis is tied with those 3.  A couple stoppable goals allowed the last 2 games, but they are have 52 more shots for than against in this losing streak with 5 one goal games.  Mange and Dube pointless during this stretch, both guys have shown the ability to score in bunches hope they don't wait too much longer to do that.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, sak22 said:

12 games in and Brett Ritchie has one less point than Huberdeau, and one more point than Mangiapane, Dube and Coleman.  Add in that Trevor Lewis is tied with those 3.  A couple stoppable goals allowed the last 2 games, but they are have 52 more shots for than against in this losing streak with 5 one goal games.  Mange and Dube pointless during this stretch, both guys have shown the ability to score in bunches hope they don't wait too much longer to do that.

 

Some guys seem to be snakebit.

Dube had a couple of chances and things conspired against him.

Mangiapane as well.

Without Stone, most of the D shots are not hitting the net.

 

Kadri is the one positive thing.

Perhaps him with Toffoli and Hubey makes the most sene.

Mangiapane with Lindholm and Coleman.

Backlund with Dube and Ruzicka.

Lucic with Rooney and Ritchie.

About the best I can come up with.

What worked in the first 6 games isn't now.

 

The top pair D play a lot of minutes, but really Zaddy is the most consistent.

If we can get Tanev back, we can adjust the D pairs again.

Maybe we should be thinking again about Hanifin-Tanev.

[cross16]

Another tough one to lose. I don't think they played poorly and they had one of their best defensive efforts of the season. Just not enough offence created and again Markstrom can't shut the door like they need him to. 

 

That's how it goes when your slumping, but on the positive side I do think they are starting to get more consistent on executing their defensive game, starting to get more consistent in terms of lines, puck management etc. Slow process but they are building towards a better team game, even if it doesn't feel like it. 

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Another tough one to lose. I don't think they played poorly and they had one of their best defensive efforts of the season. Just not enough offence created and again Markstrom can't shut the door like they need him to. 

 

That's how it goes when your slumping, but on the positive side I do think they are starting to get more consistent on executing their defensive game, starting to get more consistent in terms of lines, puck management etc. Slow process but they are building towards a better team game, even if it doesn't feel like it. 

I do find it frustrating that Markstrom can't seem to win a game for the Flames.

He was good enough to allow the team win some games early.

Even those, we were lucky to win.

Every once in awhile you need and expect the goalie to steal one.

Not really blaming him, but the last three losses included goals he needs or should have stopped.

Seeing that we had 18 shots and a one goal lead, we shouldn't get scored on (again) the first shot against.

Goal wise, this was not as close as the final score suggested.

2 goals called back and 3 more counted.

I get that Vladar's results are nothing to point to, but I don't feel like he's going to let in the first shot.

 

Goaltending needs to be better.

Mangiapane is struggling right now, though last night was a lot better.

Prior to last night, he had zero shots and minus 5 in 3 games.

Dube with minus 5 in last 3 games.

What was a dominant line has become somewhat neutered.

I won't go off on Lucic, but he has been really bad recently.

 

I did think the team looked better against NJ.

Not impressed with the reffing.

But, you make mistakes, you give the choice to the refs.

 

[JTech780]

I thought they played well last night. Needed Markstrom to make a save in the 3rd to give them a chance, it didn’t happen.

 

I thought Gilbert played well enough to get another game, he might be the 7th guy going forward as Mackey and DeSimone haven’t really shown much of anything so far.

 

Ruzicka didn’t look out of place playing with skilled guys. He might get a longer look there.

 

Huberdeau was seen wearing a walking boot after the game last night so that is a big loss to the offence if he is out for any length of time.
 

Does Phillips get an opportunity? He has been good in the AHL to start the season and had a solid camp. 

[cross16]

"blame" is a strong word yes because the team still has things they need to improve upon, but at the same time during this losing streak at 5 on 5 the Flames are:

 

4th in CF%

3rd in Shots F

4th in shots against

8th in Expected Goals for

10th in Expected goal against

6th in Expected goals for%

8th in High danger chances against

9th in High danger chance F%

13 in High danger chances for

 

20th in Scoring change For%

19th in Scoring Change For

18th in scoring chances Against

 

9th worst in shooting %

6th worse in Save %

 

They are not playing as poorly as it seems and while they could so themselves a favor with more scoring, and limiting a few more chances, it really feels like every mistakes is winding up in the back of their net. This is a 6 game losing streak because Markstrom, and Vladar, just have not been good enough. 

 

The team picked them up to start the season where they won despite some not so great play, now it's the goalies turn to pick the team up. 

 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

They are not playing as poorly as it seems and while they could so themselves a favor with more scoring, and limiting a few more chances, it really feels like every mistakes is winding up in the back of their net. This is a 6 game losing streak because Markstrom, and Vladar, just have not been good enough. 

 

Scoring is a concern when we seem to get burned in low scoring games with the bad goal.

Our top scorers are not scoring enough.

Kadri is the only one really doing his part but he has half his points from the PP.

But to your point, the goalies have not been good enough.

Would like to give Vladar some more starts, just to get him more consistency.

I wouldn't say he was better but he gives up fewer of those "questionable" ones.

Markstrom is not ex\actly what he was last year, not close.

[tmac70]

I hate losing so for me its hard to check the emotions at the door. The last few games shows we are trending in a better direction ,I like  what  I see in the D coverage and Forwrads but goaltending has been very poor this season. I am sorry but that 3rd period goal was on Markstrom.  Last seaon we got off lucky with no injuries this year will be a huge struggle. If Hubie is sidelined than you really need Ruzicka to step it up, which I am moderately banking on. Gilbert to me struggles as does Desimone one is no better than the other.  As Sutter mentioned we don't have the depth on D that everyone bragged about, plus the lack of  prospects not pushing for a job creates a soft veteran group, you can see how this has created a Satoshi Nakamototy culture from years previous.  The sad facts are we have no one in the minors that is pounding at the door to get a shot. Its like everyomne regressed from last season the Wranglers are off to a horrible start as well. I do belive we trend in an upward fashion, we have been in almost every game in this losing skid.  As Sutter stated we are not going to over power you on the score sheet. The guys that need to step the F up are Mags, Coleman and Dube. They have been getting chances but can't bury them. I do think that there is a lot of pressure on the forwards with the movement of Johnny and Chucky to produce. It may sound a bit negative but the under tone is positive, I do think when they figure it out we will be a force. Outside of the injury bug and some bad tending, the only really glaring issue I see is Lucic and Lewis on the 3rd line. Optimistically Ruzicka finds his game with Hubie out and Sutter replaces  Rozie for Lewis and sits Lucic and puts Lewis in. I love Lucic but the game has passed him by unfortunalty.  

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I hate losing so for me its hard to check the emotions at the door. The last few games shows we are trending in a better direction ,I like  what  I see in the D coverage and Forwrads but goaltending has been very poor this season. I am sorry but that 3rd period goal was on Markstrom.  Last seaon we got off lucky with no injuries this year will be a huge struggle. If Hubie is sidelined than you really need Ruzicka to step it up, which I am moderately banking on. Gilbert to me struggles as does Desimone one is no better than the other.  As Sutter mentioned we don't have the depth on D that everyone bragged about, plus the lack of  prospects not pushing for a job creates a soft veteran group, you can see how this has created a Satoshi Nakamototy culture from years previous.  The sad facts are we have no one in the minors that is pounding at the door to get a shot. Its like everyomne regressed from last season the Wranglers are off to a horrible start as well. I do belive we trend in an upward fashion, we have been in almost every game in this losing skid.  As Sutter stated we are not going to over power you on the score sheet. The guys that need to step the F up are Mags, Coleman and Dube. They have been getting chances but can't bury them. I do think that there is a lot of pressure on the forwards with the movement of Johnny and Chucky to produce. It may sound a bit negative but the under tone is positive, I do think when they figure it out we will be a force. Outside of the injury bug and some bad tending, the only really glaring issue I see is Lucic and Lewis on the 3rd line. Optimistically Ruzicka finds his game with Hubie out and Sutter replaces  Rozie for Lewis and sits Lucic and puts Lewis in. I love Lucic but the game has passed him by unfortunalty.  

 

The Wranglers currently have:

The AHL's leading scorer

2 of the top 16 goals scorers

3 players at or above a PPG

Pelletier has 8 points in his last 6 games

the 10th highest scoring dman (who happens to be tied for highest rookie scoring dman)

A top 15 goalies who has also been excellent his last 3 starts. 

 

There is plenty of talent in the AHL if the Flames want to use it. The cap is the issue now but there are options there IMO. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I hate losing so for me its hard to check the emotions at the door. The last few games shows we are trending in a better direction ,I like  what  I see in the D coverage and Forwrads but goaltending has been very poor this season. I am sorry but that 3rd period goal was on Markstrom.  Last seaon we got off lucky with no injuries this year will be a huge struggle. If Hubie is sidelined than you really need Ruzicka to step it up, which I am moderately banking on. Gilbert to me struggles as does Desimone one is no better than the other.  As Sutter mentioned we don't have the depth on D that everyone bragged about, plus the lack of  prospects not pushing for a job creates a soft veteran group, you can see how this has created a Satoshi Nakamototy culture from years previous.  The sad facts are we have no one in the minors that is pounding at the door to get a shot. Its like everyomne regressed from last season the Wranglers are off to a horrible start as well. I do belive we trend in an upward fashion, we have been in almost every game in this losing skid.  As Sutter stated we are not going to over power you on the score sheet. The guys that need to step the F up are Mags, Coleman and Dube. They have been getting chances but can't bury them. I do think that there is a lot of pressure on the forwards with the movement of Johnny and Chucky to produce. It may sound a bit negative but the under tone is positive, I do think when they figure it out we will be a force. Outside of the injury bug and some bad tending, the only really glaring issue I see is Lucic and Lewis on the 3rd line. Optimistically Ruzicka finds his game with Hubie out and Sutter replaces  Rozie for Lewis and sits Lucic and puts Lewis in. I love Lucic but the game has passed him by unfortunalty.  

 

I think you may be reaching, just based on what Sutter talked about regarding TC.

Mackey isn't a prospect but a fringe NHL'er and we lost Valimaki to waivers.

Neither showed anything in TC.

But that has little to do with the prospects growth elsewhere.

 

For instance, Zary had an okay camp but needs a lot more time.

The F were set, so there really wasn't a free spot for a F to grab.

By the time we realized a PTO wasn't going to get a top 9 job, we had nobody plugged in.

 

Anyway, I am just suggesting that while we didn't have D depth like we thought, the F was not quite ready at TC.  They didn't push anyone down, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be here at some point.  They just didn't do it at camp.  

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

As Sutter mentioned we don't have the depth on D that everyone bragged about, plus the lack of  prospects not pushing for a job creates a soft veteran group, you can see how this has created a Satoshi Nakamototy culture from years previous.  The sad facts are we have no one in the minors that is pounding at the door to get a shot. Its like everyomne regressed from last season the Wranglers are off to a horrible start as well. 

I think the bragging in the summer was more based on the thought that Kylington would be on the team, Stone would probably be back as the 7th, and then you have Mackey and whether Valimaki makes the team or clears waivers was debated back then, nobody really included DeSimone as an NHL option and Gilbert was probably thought of as a worst case scenario if he played for the Flames.  But the depth was lost with Kylington not being here, Valimaki getting claimed and Mackey disappointing.

 

I don't think we are really too far off from where we were last year as far as prospects pounding at the door.  Gawdin made the team out of camp and didn't stick, Phillips is at the point of doing everything he can at the AHL level for a couple years, Pelletier is doing well down in the A, but his biggest problem right now seems to be his training camps.  Schwindt like many on the pro teams is learning the system, he could still be an option down the road.  Zary and Poirier might not be ready now, but I truly believe they will be in the mix next year.  Sutter may have said that no prospects earned it in camp, but he also said that many of the kids who didn't have a realistic shot of making the team outplayed many of the vets.  The organization was really just not at the point where they were going to give a spot to an inexperienced player.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you may be reaching, just based on what Sutter talked about regarding TC.

Mackey isn't a prospect but a fringe NHL'er and we lost Valimaki to waivers.

Neither showed anything in TC.

But that has little to do with the prospects growth elsewhere.

 

For instance, Zary had an okay camp but needs a lot more time.

The F were set, so there really wasn't a free spot for a F to grab.

By the time we realized a PTO wasn't going to get a top 9 job, we had nobody plugged in.

 

Anyway, I am just suggesting that while we didn't have D depth like we thought, the F was not quite ready at TC.  They didn't push anyone down, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be here at some point.  They just didn't do it at camp.  

 

if I'm reading TMac properly, he might be saying that we don't have prospect depth to step in this season and at the very least out of TC.
 

i still don't see an answer in house. We have prospect depth but that doesn't mean they are nhl ready. Ruzicka is barely NHL ready, fringe. He reminds me of Monahan a lot with less scoring. But his body language seems the same. 

[tmac70]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you may be reaching, just based on what Sutter talked about regarding TC.

Mackey isn't a prospect but a fringe NHL'er and we lost Valimaki to waivers.

Neither showed anything in TC.

But that has little to do with the prospects growth elsewhere.

 

For instance, Zary had an okay camp but needs a lot more time.

The F were set, so there really wasn't a free spot for a F to grab.

By the time we realized a PTO wasn't going to get a top 9 job, we had nobody plugged in.

 

Anyway, I am just suggesting that while we didn't have D depth like we thought, the F was not quite ready at TC.  They didn't push anyone down, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be here at some point.  They just didn't do it at camp.  

We can toot the horn all we want but currently there isn't a guy down in the A that earned a spot. There was a spot open at camp,  Lewis currently resides in it. If anyone watched the preseason there the brightest prospect was Zary. However, you could tell it wasn't the speed of the game it would come down to strength. Now is Phillips having a good season sure, however he was unproductive at camp as well and was out classed by Zary. Valmaki did NOTHING nor did Mackey, frankly both have been a huge disappointment. The fact that Valimaki got waived was a clear indication that Mackey was the better option, which says a lot. We need a catayst for this club right now, Hey I would love to see Phillips get a shot I would, Man if he could open up space and tiem just a fraction of what JG did it would be fantastc boost, maybe it happens, but have a hard time seeing it though

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I think the bragging in the summer was more based on the thought that Kylington would be on the team, Stone would probably be back as the 7th, and then you have Mackey and whether Valimaki makes the team or clears waivers was debated back then, nobody really included DeSimone as an NHL option and Gilbert was probably thought of as a worst case scenario if he played for the Flames.  But the depth was lost with Kylington not being here, Valimaki getting claimed and Mackey disappointing.

 

I don't think we are really too far off from where we were last year as far as prospects pounding at the door.  Gawdin made the team out of camp and didn't stick, Phillips is at the point of doing everything he can at the AHL level for a couple years, Pelletier is doing well down in the A, but his biggest problem right now seems to be his training camps.  Schwindt like many on the pro teams is learning the system, he could still be an option down the road.  Zary and Poirier might not be ready now, but I truly believe they will be in the mix next year.  Sutter may have said that no prospects earned it in camp, but he also said that many of the kids who didn't have a realistic shot of making the team outplayed many of the vets.  The organization was really just not at the point where they were going to give a spot to an inexperienced player.

 

i kind of think that basically what Tmac is saying. Everything you're pointing out. I don't think he is saying there is Nobody on the farm, just that there is nobody on the farm that's going to fill a spot. There was a forward spot and one D spot. While a prospect outplayed a vet, which vet were they outplaying? Was it a PTO?

[cross16]

For all of the attention being paid to training camp it should be pointed out that Sutter himself said during the last round of cuts that they were sending players down that had outplayed vets that were staying. 

 

I personally don't have any doubts that there are players in the A right now that could help the team. There are some good reasons why they remain down there but there are some bad ones too. 

[JTech780]

At a certain point they have to give Phillips a chance to at least show if he can handle to size and pace of the NHL.

[flames for life]

22 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

At a certain point they have to give Phillips a chance to at least show if he can handle to size and pace of the NHL.

Agreed.  His slippery movement and tenacious attitude could be a boost to the team!

[sak22]

18 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

At a certain point they have to give Phillips a chance to at least show if he can handle to size and pace of the NHL.

The size really doesn't concern me as much as the pace, the AHL is a tougher league in terms of physicality, I think if a small player can thrive down there than size isn't the issue on whether they make the jump to the NHL.  But it is at the point I feel bad for him, he's done his part at the A, the big club doesn't seem to view him as an NHL player but at the same time he's passed through waivers so other teams were not wanting to give him a shot either.

[sak22]

41 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i kind of think that basically what Tmac is saying. Everything you're pointing out. I don't think he is saying there is Nobody on the farm, just that there is nobody on the farm that's going to fill a spot. There was a forward spot and one D spot. While a prospect outplayed a vet, which vet were they outplaying? Was it a PTO?

There really wasn't though, we thought there was going to be one all summer but that went away once Ritchie signed, it was really only wishful thinking from some that thought a kid could push out Ritchie or Lewis, but that was never going to happen and the team wasn't going to risk losing Ruzicka on waivers.  There was a battle for the 7th spot which wound up being the 6th D due to Kylington, Stone to his credit did earn the spot, but the guy who lost out here wound up in a better situation.