2022 Offseason

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

And as it works in any trade if you can move someone and get better by all means, but so far i'm not really seeing much of that in the desire to move Tkachuk. 

 

Tkachuk is an top end talent so unless you are getting that in return I don't think you are getting better by moving him position value or not. 

I'm in total agreement. We, in all likelihood, wouldn't win a Tkachuk trade. His age and style are a huge factor.

I'd have considered it for Thomas and a decent pick last year while Army was negotiating the cap, but that window, if it ever existed, is slammed shut.

Imagine a world where we took Thomas instead of Valimaki. Ahhh the joys of hindsight. We'd be baaaadasss.lol

Thomas plays a hard, hard, honest game. Always liked him and I can't say that about many ex-Knights, including Tkachuk.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

The Center hole is bigger than a Winger hole. That sounded dirty, but you get the point. Wing-holes are easier to fill than C-holes. Oops, did it again...  We need to be stronger down the middle! ... I give up.

 

We need to be strong up the middle, which sounds worse.  We have two C's that have done exactly what was needed.  The top 6, as the year ended seemed to be just right.  3rd line not quite right.  4th line really struggled with speed.  So that kinda implies we need a 3C and 4C.  A consistent Rozie is a 3C at worst.  Lewis was a strong 4C.  We struggled a bit on the wings the way those two lines were constructed.  No playmaker on line 3.  Lucic and Ritchie on line 4.  They struggled when they played.  Did some things well, but struggled in other parts of the game.

 

Ideally, Lucic moves on and we find a taker for Monahan.  In a perfect world, Monahan comes back and is able to produce, but we simply can't afford him while trying to stay the same or get better.  

 

If we managed to clear those two players, I would like to get Namestnikov, simply as a utility player.  A bit more utility than Jarnkrok.  Shouldn't cost the farm.  That would give us some flexibility for building the 4th line. 

 

For trades, there isn't a lot that I can come up with.  Dube for Puljujarvi.  Valimaki for Dunne.  

[JTech780]

I am having a hard time trying to predict where this offseason goes, for me everything hinges on what happens with Gaudreau. I think that domino has to fall before we see the plan for this offseason.

 

The other big questions for this offseason are how much are we willing to pay our RFA's based off of career years that probably won't be their norms. I have hard time seeing Tkachuk being a 100 point player on a regular basis especially if he isn't running shotgun to Gaudreau. I love Mangiapane and the way he plays and I would love to keep him long term, I am just leary of paying him based off of 35 goals as I don't think that's who he is year in year out. Kylington is the other guy, I don't think he is a 2nd pairing guy and I am not willing to pay him as such.

 

Treliving is going to have to make some decisions on those players, and if they are looking for too much it might be time to move on, mostly with Mangiapane and Kylington. Tkachuk is going to get paid regardless.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I am having a hard time trying to predict where this offseason goes, for me everything hinges on what happens with Gaudreau. I think that domino has to fall before we see the plan for this offseason.

 

The other big questions for this offseason are how much are we willing to pay our RFA's based off of career years that probably won't be their norms. I have hard time seeing Tkachuk being a 100 point player on a regular basis especially if he isn't running shotgun to Gaudreau. I love Mangiapane and the way he plays and I would love to keep him long term, I am just leary of paying him based off of 35 goals as I don't think that's who he is year in year out. Kylington is the other guy, I don't think he is a 2nd pairing guy and I am not willing to pay him as such.

 

Treliving is going to have to make some decisions on those players, and if they are looking for too much it might be time to move on, mostly with Mangiapane and Kylington. Tkachuk is going to get paid regardless.

 

I get what you are saying and somewhat agree that you don't overpay on one season's results.  Saying that, Mangiapane has been producing at a 20+ goal clip for two years now, while playing less minutes.  Kylington is a more difficult thing for me.  Growth in his first actual full season.  Produced at a similar rate to Hanifin, but played with a defensively minded player.  About 350 less games played than Hanifin.  Hard to say if Kylington can improve as much as he did this past season, but really he had done everything in the right direction until he fell off around the time of his concussion.  Maybe slightly before that. 

 

All that aside, you only move on if the moves improve the team.  Kylington isn't going to get any huge arbitration award.  His offer just has to be fair to make it worthwhile.  Mangiapane would get a big award due to his production over 60 minutes.  Maybe he isn't a 35 goal guy, but I think he's a 30 goal one.  He managed to get 8 PPG last season, so that might account for the difference between this and last year.        

[LouCifer]

I don't see Backlund as a #2C. He may have been one in the past, but this team isn't going anywhere with him at 2C. We need an offensive 2C to push backlund to #3C. Fill 4C with Rozie or Jarnkrok or whoever, but 2C is a glaring need and Backlund is not the solution for that role. 

[flames for life]

1 minute ago, LouCifer said:

I don't see Backlund as a #2C. He may have been one in the past, but this team isn't going anywhere with him at 2C. We need an offensive 2C to push backlund to #3C. Fill 4C with Rozie or Jarnkrok or whoever, but 2C is a glaring need and Backlund is not the solution for that role. 

Agreed.  Backlund has built a career as being an excellent defensive forward.  That translates to a kickchecking from behind 3C.  I’m grateful that he is able to step and play a competent 2C if needed, but that is not where he excels.  Having Lindholm as 1C, and a Kadri type as 2C, followed by Backlund and Ruzicka would give us a very strong middle!

[travel_dude]

53 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I don't see Backlund as a #2C. He may have been one in the past, but this team isn't going anywhere with him at 2C. We need an offensive 2C to push backlund to #3C. Fill 4C with Rozie or Jarnkrok or whoever, but 2C is a glaring need and Backlund is not the solution for that role. 

I would counter that we did go somewhere last season with him in the 2nd spot.  Is he a top scoring 2C?  No, but he is a very good 2 way C.  Line numbering is really meaningless.  It's minutes played.  The problem was that we went with two shutdown lines instead of two scoring lines.  Mangiapane still did extremely well.  If, for instance, we have a playmaker to go with say Rozie and Toffoli, we suddenly have a scoring line?  

 

You might improve long term on Backlund by trading him and signing say Copp.  That's also a function of getting younger.  I would love to see Pelletier-Rozie-Toffoli.  Could become a 15-17 minute line and score 20 each.  There's a 2nd scoring line.  The 4th line is still a work in progress.  Lucic was okay, but it would be nice to have another Hathaway there, with a responsible C and another scoring winger.    

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, LouCifer said:

 

The Center hole is bigger than a Winger hole. That sounded dirty, but you get the point. Wing-holes are easier to fill than C-holes. Oops, did it again...  We need to be stronger down the middle! ... I give up.

 

This is basically my stance on the matter as well.  Center and #1 LD is more important than Wing.

 

In terms of draft and development, our most ready prospects are LW Pelletier, and C Ruzicka.  Ruzicka could emerge as a second line Center but where is the LD?

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I am having a hard time trying to predict where this offseason goes, for me everything hinges on what happens with Gaudreau. I think that domino has to fall before we see the plan for this offseason.

 

Yes 100%... If we fail to bring back Gaudreau then we are not a playoff team.  He's that important to us.  In that case, might as well keep selling into next year's draft.

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes 100%... If we fail to bring back Gaudreau then we are not a playoff team.  He's that important to us.  In that case, might as well keep selling into next year's draft.

 

Effectively, we have until July 7th on the floor to sign Gaudreau.

Otherwise it's a rebuild.

Mangiapane could replace some of the play on the top line, but we have no depth then.

We might be able to sign Forsberg, but that's a big step down.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, LouCifer said:

I don't see Backlund as a #2C. He may have been one in the past, but this team isn't going anywhere with him at 2C. We need an offensive 2C to push backlund to #3C. Fill 4C with Rozie or Jarnkrok or whoever, but 2C is a glaring need and Backlund is not the solution for that role. 

 

I've seen some rumours suggest Backlund could become cap casualty... Not because we should trade him but because no one would want Lucic or Monahan unless we sweeten the deal big time.

 

While Monahan will never return to point-per-game form, he was okay in a 4th line role and started to come on as the season progressed.  Maybe he's a viable answer as our 3rd line shutdown Center this coming season.  Then we trade Backlund to make cap space while getting a decent asset as opposed to losing one to get rid of Lucic or Monahan.

 

I understand he went beast mode these playoffs but he's also 33 and aging out of prime.

[tmac70]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've seen some rumours suggest Backlund could become cap casualty... Not because we should trade him but because no one would want Lucic or Monahan unless we sweeten the deal big time.

 

While Monahan will never return to point-per-game form, he was okay in a 4th line role and started to come on as the season progresses.  Maybe he's a viable answer as our 3rd like shutdown Center this coming season.  Then we trade Backlund to make cap space while getting a decent asset as opposed to losing one to get rid of Lucic or Monahan.

Toffoli would be one that could be moved as well. Backs has a MNTC which could pose issues. Really the major factor  is when and if JG signs. From there than one can determine what the next move is to be. He stays you arrange the roster plug some holes and try and put yourself in a better spot, than I am not certain as to how you replace that offense. 

[The_People1]

27 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Toffoli would be one that could be moved as well. Backs has a MNTC which could pose issues. Really the major factor  is when and if JG signs. From there than one can determine what the next move is to be. He stays you arrange the roster plug some holes and try and put yourself in a better spot, than I am not certain as to how you replace that offense. 

 

Ya agreed.  If Gaudreau leaves then switch to a rebuild.

 

We have a good foundation to begin a rebuild unlike in 2013 when the cupboards were totally bare.  We have young pieces close to NHL ready this time.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya agreed.  If Gaudreau leaves then switch to a rebuild.

 

We have a good foundation to begin a rebuild unlike in 2013 when the cupboards were totally bare.  We have young pieces close to NHL ready this time.

 I think the chances of a rebuild are slim.

Even if we have to, hard to do with the teams that have cap and the NTC's we have.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

It's scary to think of the Flames without Gaudreau, it leaves such a void.

 

If Gaudreau leaves, the Flames could take the money they had for Gaudreau and offer it to Forsberg. That would probably be an overpayment but I don't think he comes to Calgary unless the Flames overpay. There's gonna be a ton of interest in that player. 

 

Kadri is great, but he's 32 and gonna get 5-7yrs.

 

Other than those two there's a lot of middle six options that don't move the needle a ton. Nichushkin would be high on my list, but I don't think he will be leaving Denver.

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

It's scary to think of the Flames without Gaudreau, it leaves such a void.

 

If Gaudreau leaves, the Flames could take the money they had for Gaudreau and offer it to Forsberg. That would probably be an overpayment but I don't think he comes to Calgary unless the Flames overpay. There's gonna be a ton of interest in that player. 

 

Kadri is great, but he's 32 and gonna get 5-7yrs.

 

Other than those two there's a lot of middle six options that don't move the needle a ton. Nichushkin would be high on my list, but I don't think he will be leaving Denver.

 

20 team are saying sign Forsberg and Kadri.  Those two are not coming here because they have options.. in fact, if we were free of Gaudreau's cap hit then I expect Flames to use the cap space to bring back Zadorov, Gudbranson, Kylington, and Jarnkrok.  Tkachuk and Mange will eat up most of the remaining money... And that's it. Exactly the same team minus Gaudreau.  Praying Pelletier puts up a 80-poont rookie season to save us.

[Thebrewcrew]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

20 team are saying sign Forsberg and Kadri.  Those two are not coming here because they have options.. in fact, if we were free of Gaudreau's cap hit then I expect Flames to use the cap space to bring back Zadorov, Gudbranson, Kylington, and Jarnkrok.  Tkachuk and Mange will eat up most of the remaining money... And that's it. Exactly the same team minus Gaudreau.  Praying Pelletier puts up a 80-poont rookie season to save us.

I absolutely agree on Forsberg and Kadri. The big time UFA's aren't picking Calgary over 31 other markets. Markstrom was an anomaly, given the need for the Flames and the friendship with Lindholm.

 

If Johnny is gone I think it's a coin-toss whether or not the Flames are a playoff team. VAN, VGK, WPG will all improve. 

[LouCifer]

If Johnny leaves, It would be another remarkable mistake by this organization to target and spend huge money on a talented winger when this franchise really needs more talent at center.

UFAs may not want to sign here, so you do what you have to do to get Center talent at the draft or from other team’s prospects. And if that means trading your best remaining asset (Chucky) you do that. Don’t think Colorado is where they are today without the Duchene trade. And don’t think Chucky is going to get close to his performance this year without Johnny on his line feeding him. 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Ethan Bear is someone I think the Flames should look at. 

 

Not sure if there will be much of a trade market, but if he's non-tendered, could be worth a look in UFA

[sak22]

32 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

If Johnny leaves, It would be another remarkable mistake by this organization to target and spend huge money on a talented winger when this franchise really needs more talent at center.

UFAs may not want to sign here, so you do what you have to do to get Center talent at the draft or from other team’s prospects. And if that means trading your best remaining asset (Chucky) you do that. Don’t think Colorado is where they are today without the Duchene trade. And don’t think Chucky is going to get close to his performance this year without Johnny on his line feeding him. 

 

At the time of that trade they had Landeskog, Mackinnon, Rantanen and Makar in their organization, what really made the trade a great deal for Colorado was Ottawa falling apart after it, if Ottawa is a playoff team and they don't get Byram then it really wouldn't look like a steal for them.  But I think its a stretch to suggest they aren't where they are today without that trade as both Byram and Girard have missed significant time this season.

[LouCifer]

10 hours ago, sak22 said:

At the time of that trade they had Landeskog, Mackinnon, Rantanen and Makar in their organization, what really made the trade a great deal for Colorado was Ottawa falling apart after it, if Ottawa is a playoff team and they don't get Byram then it really wouldn't look like a steal for them.  But I think its a stretch to suggest they aren't where they are today without that trade as both Byram and Girard have missed significant time this season.

 

Fair enough. Though, Sakic wasn't done there. He also recognized that he needed depth at center to help the Avs get past the 2nd round, so he traded Barrie and Kerfoot to Toronto for Kadri. Sure, you could argue Kadri isn't playing in the final, and he's no saviour on his own, but look how that Center depth has helped the Avs. I don't know sak... I'm frustrated. I look at teams like Edmonton too - and it appears obvious to me that center depth - despite goaltending and defense woes - always seem to buy a ticket to the dance and give them a chance in the playoffs. If we look at TB, yes they won last night, but they struggle a heck of a lot more without Point in their lineup. Even with the dynamic Kucherov on wing. Center is just so critical and I think we have 2 good center pieces in Lindy and Backlund. I just think we need a real 2C to supplant Backlund to 3C duty and PK-only duty. That one position I believe would change the entire dynamic of our team. I'd rank that 2C even higher than a 1D right now. More offensive zone time from the 2C and more production takes time and pressure out of our Dzone. And we do have some good, good D.   

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Ethan Bear is someone I think the Flames should look at. 

 

Not sure if there will be much of a trade market, but if he's non-tendered, could be worth a look in UFA

 

I thought he got a raw deal in EDM.  Fans scapegoated him like Eberle and Hall and the list goes on.

I give props to the kid for facing the racist taunts and posts.

As a RD, we should look at him.

But, he would be depth here.

Would rather spend the money on Guddy, but having a 4th RD might be ok.

Saying all that, we don't have the roster space unless we regress from last year.

[LouCifer]

Hey everyone, is it a foregone conclusion that Montreal is keeping their first overall? I've seen some rumors about them considering moving it. Even swapping picks with NJ's 2OA or something. Any chance MTL would move it for Chucky? Even straight up? I'm clearly on a Centerman bender. Shane Wright would be a good get. 

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I absolutely agree on Forsberg and Kadri. The big time UFA's aren't picking Calgary over 31 other markets. Markstrom was an anomaly, given the need for the Flames and the friendship with Lindholm.

 

If Johnny is gone I think it's a coin-toss whether or not the Flames are a playoff team. VAN, VGK, WPG will all improve. 

 

The bolded is just an opinion.  Big time UFA's don't go to loser teams that will never do anything.  US players that only want to play in the US will only go to US teams.  Apparently, every player born in Ontario wants to play for the Leafs.  Every UFA wants to play with Connor.  Forsberg won't sign in a small market because he played in a small market.

 

Really, it comes down to competetive advantage and timing.  A player may just pick the biggest deal he gets.  Or he may look at the spot he would fit in.  Or his wife says she won't play north of Calgary.  Or the player has a young family and doesn't want his kids to grow up in a violent city.

 

I agree that Flames without Gaudreau and no major improvement are not much of a playof team.  The three teams listed are questionable if they will improve.  Vegas is aging out of their window.  WPG is starting to age out and has to fix the locker room.  VAN is bad and seems to continue being bad.  Pacific teams don't look like anyone is making improvements.  EDM is in cap jail.  SJS is just bad.  ANA is trying to rebuild.  SEA is Satoshi Nakamoto-attle.  The Pacific could send only 3 teams to the playoffs again.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Hey everyone, is it a foregone conclusion that Montreal is keeping their first overall? I've seen some rumors about them considering moving it. Even swapping picks with NJ's 2OA or something. Any chance MTL would move it for Chucky? Even straight up? I'm clearly on a Centerman bender. Shane Wright would be a good get. 

 

It's a lose-lose trade for MTL.

They can't afford cap to pay Tkachuk.

Fans would lose it over the summer.

Media would burn down Bell Centre.

 

But....

Fans would chant his name every time he was on the ice.

They would scream at the refs every time he fell.

 

As much as Tkachuk is a polarizing player and may be part of a huge trade, losing him changes our identity.  As much as Sutter claims we don't have star power, we have 3 quasi-elite players.  We were a top 10 scoring team in the league on the backs of 4 players.