2022 Offseason

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The biggest mistake Treliving has made IMO is not protecting the 1st in the Hamonic trade, the Flames would have a  stud RHD in Dobson if they did. 

 

We gave up a 12th and I think it was a terrible trade.  It would have been a mistake had NY won the lotto. 

[Thebrewcrew]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We gave up a 12th and I think it was a terrible trade.  It would have been a mistake had NY won the lotto. 

I liked the deal at the time. But when you trade 1st's that are a year away, not protecting them is a huge mistake. The Flames were coming off a season where they were a fringe playoff team that got swept, far from a contender. BT learned from this mistake, the pick in the Toffoli deal was protected lol.

 

I don't think the Flames have the assets to get Chychrun. I think he's a good player, but I don't know that he's drastically better than Andersson/Hanifin. He's a career .42 pt/g player, buoyed by an 18 goal season last year. Slightly better than Ras and Hanifin, but not significantly. I think he's a very solid top 4 D, but for what the compensation will be, you need him to be "the guy", I'm not sure if he's the top D on a contender. Plays a different style but I think of JBouw being traded to the Flames

[The_People1]

15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Just for converation.

Is packaging Hanifin & Toffoli viable to get cap space?

I know it depends on replacing them.

If Pelletier moves in, Dube to RW, is Toffoli redundant?

Hanifin & Toffoli for Chychrun? ARI still needs NHL players.

Another add not named Wolf?

 

I do wonder what is Hanifin's trade value.  Hanifin and Chychrun are not too far apart from afar.  Hanifin was our top pair D and we were division champs.  So by association, that should bump up his stock.

 

Toffoli doesn't pass the eyeball test for me but he's a recognizable name that could be attractive to some.  Maybe Hanifin + Toffoli + Zary would get Chychrun.  I'm not too high on Zary personally.

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I liked the deal at the time. But when you trade 1st's that are a year away, not protecting them is a huge mistake. The Flames were coming off a season where they were a fringe playoff team that got swept, far from a contender. BT learned from this mistake, the pick in the Toffoli deal was protected lol.

 

 

I'm just saying that had he protected it, it would be the same result.  If you protect, you also have to make it worth the other team's while.  In the Toffoli trade, it was top 10 protected which cost us, but also less chance of happening since it was late season.  On the whole, you should always make it a protected 1st unless it's a TDL trade where you have zero chance of missing the playoffs. 

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I do wonder what is Hanifin's trade value.  Hanifin and Chychrun are not too far apart from afar.  Hanifin was our top pair D and we were division champs.  So by association, that should bump up his stock.

 

Toffoli doesn't pass the eyeball test for me but he's a recognizable name that could be attractive to some.  Maybe Hanifin + Toffoli + Zary would get Chychrun.  I'm not too high on Zary personally.

 

I think you have to do more like Hanifin + Valimaki + Zary.  Maybe add Dube in there.

It cleans out the depth a bit, but you have to pay to get it done.

If you can get away with just Hanifin + Dube + Zary, then we retain a 6/7 D.

Dube is the prize for them.

No real fit here.

Hanifin gets them a seasoned vet.

If we added Monahan, they could toss in Ghost.

[redfire11]

One Edmonton player I was really impressed with throughout the playoffs that has had 0 attention given to him was Ryan McLeod. Very fast C and I could see him excelling under Sutter. Perfect time for a Edm. offer sheet. 2 years at 2.1m with a 3rd rounder as compensation. Yes they would most likely match but that extra million could possibly take them out of the Kane contention and he would then be UFA. 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, redfire11 said:

One Edmonton player I was really impressed with throughout the playoffs that has had 0 attention given to him was Ryan McLeod. Very fast C and I could see him excelling under Sutter. Perfect time for a Edm. offer sheet. 2 years at 2.1m with a 3rd rounder as compensation. Yes they would most likely match but that extra million could possibly take them out of the Kane contention and he would then be UFA. 

 

I noticed.  He was good.  He was a 4th liner but he could develop into a 2nd/3rd line Center.  He posted good AHL and Junior numbers.

 

$2.1 x 2-years is a bit rich though since we ourselves are a capped team.  Might come down to Jarnkrok or McCleod and Sutter likes his RHS C so...

[redfire11]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

$2.1 x 2-years is a bit rich though since we ourselves are a capped team.  Might come down to Jarnkrok or McCleod and Sutter likes his RHS C so...

Jarnkrok is also a LW/RW

[The_People1]

Is this a buy-low opportunity on Scheifele?  Do we want to add this attitude to our group?  Does this make Scheifele more available than before?

 

 

[The_People1]

I think the Flames should take a serious look into this.  It's going to be almost impossible to acquire a legit #2 Center like Scheifele because, reasons.  So one option is take a chance on a kid who has huge upside but has yet to break out.  I mean, it won't be cheap but it's going to be cheaper than Scheifele or JT Miller or something.

 

 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

I think the Flames should take a serious look into this.  It's going to be almost impossible to acquire a legit #2 Center like Scheifele because, reasons.  So one option is take a chance on a kid who has huge upside but has yet to break out.  I mean, it won't be cheap but it's going to be cheaper than Scheifele or JT Miller or something.

 

 

 

CHI is also reported to be taking calls on The Cat.  Can you imaging Debrincat on the top line in place of Tkachuk?  Okay, so here's a reasonable offer:

 

Tkachuk + Dube for Debrincat + Dach.

I only added Dube because we have to manage roster spots.

Tkachuk is easily worth Debrincat and maybe even Dach included.

The extra year of The Cat at $6.4M helps even the trade a bit.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

CHI is also reported to be taking calls on The Cat.  Can you imaging Debrincat on the top line in place of Tkachuk?  Okay, so here's a reasonable offer:

 

Tkachuk + Dube for Debrincat + Dach.

I only added Dube because we have to manage roster spots.

Tkachuk is easily worth Debrincat and maybe even Dach included.

The extra year of The Cat at $6.4M helps even the trade a bit.

Uh-oh. I'm not picking up what you guys are laying down. I'm sure ChiTown would like a do-over from taking Dach 3oa.

3rd rder? Sure. Overall, ouch. Dube>Dach. Tkachuk>DeBrincat.

As for McLeod, good grab at #40. We didn't have a pick until 3 4th rders, thanks for nothing Hamonic. I hate revisiting the '18-19 drafts. Too bad we weren't scouting Nik Abbruzzese over Lucas Feuk. Do we even scout Chicago's elite hockey program?

Throwing picks around like candy, and we're still doing it.

[The_People1]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

CHI is also reported to be taking calls on The Cat.  Can you imaging Debrincat on the top line in place of Tkachuk?  Okay, so here's a reasonable offer:

 

Tkachuk + Dube for Debrincat + Dach.

I only added Dube because we have to manage roster spots.

Tkachuk is easily worth Debrincat and maybe even Dach included.

The extra year of The Cat at $6.4M helps even the trade a bit.

 

The idea is to sign both Gaudreau and Tkachuk and then spend less cap on the 2nd line Center (Dach).  Take a gamble that he's about to breakout.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Uh-oh. I'm not picking up what you guys are laying down. I'm sure ChiTown would like a do-over from taking Dach 3oa.

3rd rder? Sure. Overall, ouch. Dube>Dach. Tkachuk>DeBrincat.

 

Agreed.  Moreover, CHI probably wants picks and/or prospects.  Hope they are interested in Zary.  Maybe Kylington or Hanifin?  Should we consider Mangiapane for Dach?  Lots of teams will be interested in Dach so we still have to compete against others.

 

In any event, Dach can still be salvaged... Not as a #1 Center.  He doesn't show that level of elite IQ.  But a second line Center who can score 50-to-65-points and brings size is exactly what we need.

[Thebrewcrew]

There’s been character concerns regarding Dach going back to his draft year. The fact that Chicago would be willing to move him this early is telling.

 

There’s also been chatter that maybe the family of the player are a little too involved 

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.  Moreover, CHI probably wants picks and/or prospects.  Hope they are interested in Zary.  Maybe Kylington or Hanifin?  Should we consider Mangiapane for Dach?  Lots of teams will be interested in Dach so we still have to compete against others.

 

In any event, Dach can still be salvaged... Not as a #1 Center.  He doesn't show that level of elite IQ.  But a second line Center who can score 50-to-65-points and brings size is exactly what we need.

I'm not sure that he's even that peeps. I'm not sure how he went 3oa, a good tournament maybe?

Kylington, sure. Anyone else, nope. Maybe...maybe Chicago brought him in too fast because they suck. Maybe.

But I don't see a top 6 guy. I see a big, RS pass first center. I actually prefer Ruzicka to be honest.

DeBrincat isn't my fave either. If we wanna keep playing pond hockey against the Oilers, sure, get DeBrincat.

I like 200' players, you just have to be in this league.

I really like Pelletier and Kerins as prospects. Size is over-rated. These 2 think the game really well.

Kerins finishing 2nd behind Wyatt Johnson astonishes me. He's a great passer, sees the ice well. Great shot? Nope. Great skater? Nope. He was the Soo's top defensive C and 1C on the PP and PK. Tye Kartye earned an ELC this year with Seattle. Undrafted, 21.Filled the net, not much else.

Kerins is a Backlund replacement for 2023-24. He does nothing elite, but everything really well.

My comparison is Trochek, just a good all around C. He's a C, he won't be moving to wing. He won't blow you away, but then you look at his stat line and go, "how was he in on everything"?

Good into the fire for him right now in the A. He'll be stalwart as a D-first C, then figure out the O.

[cross16]

I would check on the price of Dach but I don't think you go all in for him. I'm certainly intrigued by the fact that he may be available but I think the concern is also why? is it character or are they trying to selling high on a guy they think teams will over value due to his draft position? If the answer is yes to both of those then you move on. 

 

If it's a case of an organization trying to move on too early then check in but the price would have to make sense. No way should they move anything like Mangiapane for him, this has to be a buy low style acquisition for it to make sense. I do think Dach can still be a good player in this league but that doesn't mean he will be so trading off the active roster for a project doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Can't overpay, he isn't worth it. 

 

I also think people should be a lot more cautious moving Tkachuk than is being thrown out here. Part of the reason I think the Flames didn't beat the Oilers, and struggled at time with the Stars, is they are short on elite talent in comparison to contending teams. Moving Tkachuk likely takes them backwards and not forward so the focus should really be on how do we find that additional piece. 

 

 

[LouCifer]

I read online that Kenny Holland is going to try to get a jump on re-signing Kulak. I really really think he’d be a good D target for us. If he at least knew we were interested (or another team for that matter) it would at least drive the price up for EDM if they retain him. 

[cross16]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Is this a buy-low opportunity on Scheifele?  Do we want to add this attitude to our group?  Does this make Scheifele more available than before?

 

 

 

Doubt it. this stuff has been out there for a few years now and kind of start when his personal chef sued him. 

 

Whether or not it changes my opinion of acquiring Scheifele is irrelevant as I don't think the Flames can afford him anyway even if Winnipeg where to move him. 

[The_People1]

There's a lot being made of Kaapo Kakko's Game 6 scratch.  The most important game of the season and the coach feels sitting Kakko gives him the best chance to win.  Some believe Kakko would be available because of this incident and also because NYR is capped out.  If someone offer sheeted Kakko in the $2.1 to $4.2-mil range (one second round pick compensation), then NYR cannot match.

 

Should the Flames get in there and take a chance on the kid?  He hasn't lived up to 2nd overall pick expectations.  LHS RW.  Good size but doesn't use it.  But we could use RWs... should we target Puljujarvi instead?  

 

https://www.foreverblueshirts.com/rangers-gallant-on-kaapo-kakko-scratch-trying-to-win-a-hockey-game/

[cross16]

Flames should be very interested in Kakko if he is available. I’d be shocked if he was but of for some reason he is they should be all over it. 
 

See what happens with Gaudreau obviously but assuming he is back my view of the flames if they want to take a step they have to scour the league for a player (or maybe players) they feel are ready to break out. It’s fun to talk about big names like Schiefele or Chychrun but I just don’t see they as realistic for the Flames. Need to try and find some value given their cap space, roster and asset list. 

[conundrumed]

24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Flames should be very interested in Kakko if he is available. I’d be shocked if he was but of for some reason he is they should be all over it. 
 

See what happens with Gaudreau obviously but assuming he is back my view of the flames if they want to take a step they have to scour the league for a player (or maybe players) they feel are ready to break out. It’s fun to talk about big names like Schiefele or Chychrun but I just don’t see they as realistic for the Flames. Need to try and find some value given their cap space, roster and asset list. 

Kakko's definitely one I've been thinking about. I agree cross, the big names are unrealistic when JG and Tkachuk sign.

There has to be cheaper alternatives that assume some risk. One thing we definitely have to offer is opportunity,

[cross16]

27 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Kakko's definitely one I've been thinking about. I agree cross, the big names are unrealistic when JG and Tkachuk sign.

There has to be cheaper alternatives that assume some risk. One thing we definitely have to offer is opportunity,

agreed. Opportunity, a coach who is going to challenge you, be fair and they are a good team. On top of that they don’t really have a defined top 6 or 9 so there is room to grow especially long term

flames have plenty to offer the right candidate. Just need to find the right skill set at a price they can afford 

[travel_dude]

It seems that every year Tampa has to get rid of someone to solve next year's cap.

They are over for next year as it stands now.

I wonder if Cirelli could be had for a lesser player.

In some ways it's a cap dump.

He's got one year left and then will get a good contract.

But in other ways, he's just a guy making his value and they need to start elsewhere.

Killorn is about the only other guy they could dump, but not sure they get takers.

Maybe McDonagh but that's a long term deal left.

[Thebrewcrew]

I think Kakko and Puljujarvi could be had via the offersheet.

 

EDM I don't see trading him to CGY, unless the Flames make an incredible offer, making offer-sheet the most likely scenario. 

 

NYR's got a cap pinch coming. 14 players signed and 13mill in space. The only way an offersheet works is if you overpay. Offer Kakko 4.2, which is the high end of the 2nd round pick comp, you probably get the player. NY could match, it would just really hamper their ability to address their 2nd line C. Kravtsov coming back could replace the modest production they got out of Kakko.

 

I don't know that it'll be the Flames, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see an offersheet signed by a Kakko or Puljujarvi. A team like Arizona or Anaheim could do it, they have space and an excess of picks.