Flames Lineup - Suggested Lines

[JTech780]

My lines going forward with P/60 5v5 in brackets:

 

Gaudreau (3.58) - Lindholm (2.48) - Tkachuk (3.18)

This line is pretty self explanatory, one of the best lines in hockey if not the best.

 

Mangiapane (2.40) - Ruzicka (2.53) - Toffoli (1.62)

This is probably the three next best offensive players in the lineup. Ruzicka didn't look out f place on this line last night.

 

Coleman (1.96) - Backlund (1.60) - Lewis (0.82) 

This becomes a pretty elite shut down line.

 

Lucic (1.37) - Monahan (0.84) - Dube (1.18)

This is pretty much the best of the rest.

 

The point of the exercise for me is to show just how ineffective Monahan has been at 5v5 this year. If we look at his 5v5 P/60 over the last 3 years he still is only putting up 1.27 P/60, which is pretty much bottom of the barrel production. 

 

I don't know what the answer is for Monahan, but I am starting to think he should be the next guy to sit out a game or two.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

My lines going forward with P/60 5v5 in brackets:

 

Gaudreau (3.58) - Lindholm (2.48) - Tkachuk (3.18)

This line is pretty self explanatory, one of the best lines in hockey if not the best.

 

Mangiapane (2.40) - Ruzicka (2.53) - Toffoli (1.62)

This is probably the three next best offensive players in the lineup. Ruzicka didn't look out f place on this line last night.

 

Coleman (1.96) - Backlund (1.60) - Lewis (0.82) 

This becomes a pretty elite shut down line.

 

Lucic (1.37) - Monahan (0.84) - Dube (1.18)

This is pretty much the best of the rest.

 

The point of the exercise for me is to show just how ineffective Monahan has been at 5v5 this year. If we look at his 5v5 P/60 over the last 3 years he still is only putting up 1.27 P/60, which is pretty much bottom of the barrel production. 

 

I don't know what the answer is for Monahan, but I am starting to think he should be the next guy to sit out a game or two.

 

These lines look good.  Interested to watch that second line grow together.  Hope they stick for a good run.  That third line as well, very good veteran shut down line.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

My lines going forward with P/60 5v5 in brackets:

 

Gaudreau (3.58) - Lindholm (2.48) - Tkachuk (3.18)

This line is pretty self explanatory, one of the best lines in hockey if not the best.

 

Mangiapane (2.40) - Ruzicka (2.53) - Toffoli (1.62)

This is probably the three next best offensive players in the lineup. Ruzicka didn't look out f place on this line last night.

 

Coleman (1.96) - Backlund (1.60) - Lewis (0.82) 

This becomes a pretty elite shut down line.

 

Lucic (1.37) - Monahan (0.84) - Dube (1.18)

This is pretty much the best of the rest.

 

The point of the exercise for me is to show just how ineffective Monahan has been at 5v5 this year. If we look at his 5v5 P/60 over the last 3 years he still is only putting up 1.27 P/60, which is pretty much bottom of the barrel production. 

 

I don't know what the answer is for Monahan, but I am starting to think he should be the next guy to sit out a game or two.

 

I'm not really sure what the answer is.  Monahan scores more on the PP by the looks of it.  Unless he is on the PP, his linemates have not bee close to elite or even that good.  Probably the best he's had is a combo of Mange and Dube for a limited amount of time.  Mange dipped a bit then and a bit from increased shutdown minutes with Backlund.

 

There's no real answer with Monahan in the lineup.  Can't really play him with better players because he squanders that time.  Flip of the coin for top PP unit time.  At least I think that was the case, but with Toffoli up there Monahan perhaps belongs on the 2nd unit.  Think he's a better option than Backlund.  I would actually like to see someone other than Hanifin on the 2nd unit.  Maybe it's Zaddy or Guddy.  Missing a big point shot with Hanifin and Kylington rarely gets square at the point.  He's all over the place.

 

Yeah, I know I am talking about a few things here.  Ideally, we replace Monahan with a solid 3/4 C.  We don't have anyone like that.     

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not really sure what the answer is.  Monahan scores more on the PP by the looks of it.  Unless he is on the PP, his linemates have not bee close to elite or even that good.  Probably the best he's had is a combo of Mange and Dube for a limited amount of time.  Mange dipped a bit then and a bit from increased shutdown minutes with Backlund.

 

There's no real answer with Monahan in the lineup.  Can't really play him with better players because he squanders that time.  Flip of the coin for top PP unit time.  At least I think that was the case, but with Toffoli up there Monahan perhaps belongs on the 2nd unit.  Think he's a better option than Backlund.  I would actually like to see someone other than Hanifin on the 2nd unit.  Maybe it's Zaddy or Guddy.  Missing a big point shot with Hanifin and Kylington rarely gets square at the point.  He's all over the place.

 

Yeah, I know I am talking about a few things here.  Ideally, we replace Monahan with a solid 3/4 C.  We don't have anyone like that.     

 

I don't think we can point to his linemates being the problem when they are all out producing him accept for Lewis. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't think we can point to his linemates being the problem when they are all out producing him accept for Lewis. 

 

The eye test is enough to show that Monahan is not producing.

Stats have a way of obscuring the reasons.

 

If we were to look at the p/60 for each game Monahan has played, would his linemates in each game look any better?  I don't think you can say that unless you looked at individual numbers for each game.

 

Don't get me wrong, we need a fixed Monahan or a new version.  We can't afford to use a top playmaker with him to get him on track, if there is any track left.  The best we can hope for is that he finds chemistry with Dube and Lucic.  Or picks up on his PP scoring.  Neither of his linemates have done much this year.  Lucic has been fortunate to beat goalies with his mysterious 5-holer.  

[JTech780]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The eye test is enough to show that Monahan is not producing.

Stats have a way of obscuring the reasons.

 

If we were to look at the p/60 for each game Monahan has played, would his linemates in each game look any better?  I don't think you can say that unless you looked at individual numbers for each game.

 

Don't get me wrong, we need a fixed Monahan or a new version.  We can't afford to use a top playmaker with him to get him on track, if there is any track left.  The best we can hope for is that he finds chemistry with Dube and Lucic.  Or picks up on his PP scoring.  Neither of his linemates have done much this year.  Lucic has been fortunate to beat goalies with his mysterious 5-holer.  

When you look at his P/60 over the last three years he is one of the lowest producing forwards over that mark, and he had played with Gaudreau plenty over that time. His linemates aren't the problem. Monahan is the problem and he has been for awhile.

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

When you look at his P/60 over the last three years he is one of the lowest producing forwards over that mark, and he had played with Gaudreau plenty over that time. His linemates aren't the problem. Monahan is the problem and he has been for awhile.

 

I get that it was a bad situation with Bennett last year, but I think we should have kept & protected him over Monahan. I have hindsight to 20/20 me, but I always felt Bennett was the guy to go with. He'd not have made it here because there was no way of giving him that opportunity, but if we were running Lindholm, Bennett, Backlund now, that would have been more ideal than what we have now. 

 

It sounds like you and Travel are basically saying the same things only using different language. I feel for Monahan because he could be useful if he was healthy. If we want more out of him, there's no other option than to put him on PP1. 

 

Play Toffoli on PP2 with his regular line mates. And make those line mates, Mangiapane and Backlund. 

[pikey7883]

@conundrumedwas mentioning that he thinks Sutter is giving Dube the experience at all forward positions so that he can be a better overall center, which got me thinking of Dube was moved to Center?

Johnny - Lindholm - Tkachuk

Lucic - Backs - Coleman

Mang - Dube - Toffoli

Monahan - Ruzie - Lewis 

[travel_dude]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:47 PM, robrob74 said:

 

I get that it was a bad situation with Bennett last year, but I think we should have kept & protected him over Monahan. I have hindsight to 20/20 me, but I always felt Bennett was the guy to go with. He'd not have made it here because there was no way of giving him that opportunity, but if we were running Lindholm, Bennett, Backlund now, that would have been more ideal than what we have now. 

 

It sounds like you and Travel are basically saying the same things only using different language. I feel for Monahan because he could be useful if he was healthy. If we want more out of him, there's no other option than to put him on PP1. 

 

Play Toffoli on PP2 with his regular line mates. And make those line mates, Mangiapane and Backlund. 

 

Bennett here the end of last year and this year?

No different than last year.

I have no reason to believe he would have become a pleyr here.

Nothing I saw under Sutter suggests he would have.

It's just one of those teams things.

 

He would have been 3C with Monahan out.

Lucic-Bennett-Dube, really not going to show much.

Not exactly Duclair and Huberdeau.

They play wide open, which is not Sutter hockey.

 

[travel_dude]

This in from Wes Gilbertson:

 

#Flames lines looking a lot like Monday against Oilers ...
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk (Automatic)
Coleman-Backlund-Lewis
Mangiapane-Ruzicka-Toffoli
Lucic-Monahan-Dube

[travel_dude]

Back to the regularly scheduled lineup today:

 

#Flames at practice today:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Coleman-Backlund-Lewis

Mangiapane-Ruzicka-Toffoli

Lucic-Monahan-Dube

Richardson-Ritchie

 

Hanifin-Andersson

Kylington-Tanev

Zadorov-Gudbranson

Stone

 

Markstrom

Vladar

[robrob74]

I wonder if we are done in the trade market. Will Monahan stay? Or is he an off-season trade?

 

Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk 

Middle six:

Line 2,

Option1:

Mangiapane, Jarnkrok, Toffoli

Option2: 

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman

 

Line 3 

Option 1:

Dube, Monahan, Jarnkrok

Option 2:

Coleman, Backlund, Jarnkrok

Option 3:

Monahan, Backlund, Coleman

 

Lucic, Ruzicka, Lewis

[travel_dude]

I would counter with some suggested lines that keeps Ruzie in the lineup and waives Richardson.  Allows us to alternate Lewis or Dube or Ruzie in or out.  Assuming Monahan stays of course.  Dube might even be a casualty due to Jarnkrok.

 

Top line

Coleman-Backlund-Jarnkrok

Mange-Ruzie-Toffee

Lucic-Monahan-Dube/Lewis

 

or

 

Top line

Coleman-Backlund-Toffee

Mange-Ruzie-Jarnkrok

Lucic-Monahan-Dube/Lewis/Ritchie

 

To me that makes better use of speed and defense over vet status.  Yeah, I know Sutter might not agree, but he seems high on Ruzie.  Richardson hasn't really been a part of the lineup much.  Ritchie has limited use. 

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I would counter with some suggested lines that keeps Ruzie in the lineup and waives Richardson.  Allows us to alternate Lewis or Dube or Ruzie in or out.  Assuming Monahan stays of course.  Dube might even be a casualty due to Jarnkrok.

 

Top line

Coleman-Backlund-Jarnkrok

Mange-Ruzie-Toffee

Lucic-Monahan-Dube/Lewis

 

or

 

Top line

Coleman-Backlund-Toffee

Mange-Ruzie-Jarnkrok

Lucic-Monahan-Dube/Lewis/Ritchie

 

To me that makes better use of speed and defense over vet status.  Yeah, I know Sutter might not agree, but he seems high on Ruzie.  Richardson hasn't really been a part of the lineup much.  Ritchie has limited use. 

i like your thinking, I just did the middle six and would have Ruzicka on the 4th line. He’s a bit of a threat if they went head to head 4th on 4th.

[travel_dude]

39 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i like your thinking, I just did the middle six and would have Ruzicka on the 4th line. He’s a bit of a threat if they went head to head 4th on 4th.

 

I'm not saying I'm right or even know what I am talking about.

I like the idea of using Dube with bigger guys like Monahan and Lucic.

Jarny isn't huge but plays pretty well defensively from what I understand.

Would be good to use him with Backs or Ruzie.

Just MHO.

[JTech780]

So I can see the lines going two ways:

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Jarnkrok-Toffoli

Coleman-Backlund-Lewis

Lucic-Monahan-Dube

 

Or

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-Toffoli

Coleman-Backlund-Jarnkrok

Lucic-Dube-Lewis

[travel_dude]

Sutter isn't even sure about how to use Jarny.

See him as a solid guy that can play up and down and on the PK.

He's not sure if he's a fit at C, much like the way he's using Dube.

Dube had a good game as 4C, but has had weak ones as a C as well.

 

Talked about needing and now having a RHS for top 9.

But also talked about having competition for the 12F spots.

Ruzie, like Dube, Lewis and Ritchie will have to earn the starts.

 

Yeah, I know we have zero roster spots, but Richardson has played the less recently.

Wins faceoffs, but doesn't even average a shot per game.

Depth guy, but Sutter wants to win games.

[conundrumed]

50 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

So I can see the lines going two ways:

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Jarnkrok-Toffoli

Coleman-Backlund-Lewis

Lucic-Monahan-Dube

 

Or

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-Toffoli

Coleman-Backlund-Jarnkrok

Lucic-Dube-Lewis

I think my preference is option B.

BUT, Jarnkrok had solid FO stats his 1st 2yrs in the league. But then it would appear that the Preds moved him to wing by the stats. Then Seattle had him mainly at center? My best guess by stat watching.

I like the idea of that 3rd line being the shut 'er in line though.

We sure have a lot of good pkers, wow. 6 fwds, that's a lot of options.

[The_People1]

Well, Sutter was asking for RHC C options and so I think he will use Jarnkrok as a Center.

[pikey7883]

Hey didn’t know where to post this. Does anyone know the lines that we are currently running with in Stockton? I think having Ruzie join them to help them go on a deep run there will play dividends for the organization in the long run. 

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

Hey didn’t know where to post this. Does anyone know the lines that we are currently running with in Stockton? I think having Ruzie join them to help them go on a deep run there will play dividends for the organization in the long run. 

 

When he was there, he was top line with Phillips, but may have been too early for Pelletier to play there.

So, he replaces Gawdin.

Top line will be, assuming he stays there, Pelletier-Ruzie-Phillips.  Gawdin probably moves to 2nd line.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Well, Sutter was asking for RHC C options and so I think he will use Jarnkrok as a Center.

 

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I think my preference is option B.

BUT, Jarnkrok had solid FO stats his 1st 2yrs in the league. But then it would appear that the Preds moved him to wing by the stats. Then Seattle had him mainly at center? My best guess by stat watching.

I like the idea of that 3rd line being the shut 'er in line though.

We sure have a lot of good pkers, wow. 6 fwds, that's a lot of options.

 

Pretty certain Jarny played wing in Seattle.

Sutter mentioned he is comfortable on his off-wing, but plays all three spots.

 

This gives me some pause.

I know that Dube had a good game, and Sutter briefly mentioned the goal, but I don't think you can set lines based on just one game.  Sutter was happy he put in the effort and won the draw that set up the Ritchie goal.  Basically alluded to players needing to bring it every night to stay in.

 

I may be one of the few, but I think we see Richardson waived sooner than later.  Doubt teams will claim him when there is little movement, and with the TDL, you will see more and more waived.  Not just for roster flexibility, but because we can keep Richardson waiting in the weeds.  Salary a non-factor unless we need him.  Can play in the playoff, if we need him. 

 

With that in mind, we may see something like:

 

Top line

Coleman-Backlund-Jarnkrok

Mange-Ruzie-Toffee

Lucic-Monahan-Dube/Lewis/Ritchie

 

or

 

Top line

Mange-Backlund-Coleman

Jarnkrok-Ruzie-Toffee

Lucic-Monahan-Dube/Lewis/Ritchie

 

Two easy choices, two different looks.

Can take the strong side faceoff with either Backlund or Ruzie.

Add a strong defensive winger to Backlund's or Ruzie's line.

Coleman and Jarnkrok can play off-wing. 

Would be weird to see, but might match their play.

 

Ruzie may or may not be 100% ready for playoff hockey, but he provides a spark during regular season.  Since March 1st, he's played in only 2 losses.  He is motivate to improve and prove every game he belongs.  Sutter was miffed at the Ritchie double-minor.  He sits regardless of whether we had Jarny or not.   

[JTech780]

New lines:

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Tkachuk-Backlund-Dube

Mangiapane-Jarmkrok-Coleman

Lucic-Carpenter-Lewis

 

Really felt like the only guy on the team who didn't have a defined role or didn't fit the role we needed was Monahan. I just think Carpenter fits the 4th line role better, he also improves our PK. Another big thing is the fact that he is a RHS C who can win face-offs, that will take some pressure off of Lindholm.

 

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

New lines:

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Tkachuk-Backlund-Dube

Mangiapane-Jarmkrok-Coleman

Lucic-Carpenter-Lewis

 

Really felt like the only guy on the team who didn't have a defined role or didn't fit the role we needed was Monahan. I just think Carpenter fits the 4th line role better, he also improves our PK. Another big thing is the fact that he is a RHS C who can win face-offs, that will take some pressure off of Lindholm.

 

 

Fair, but do you really think Sutter takes Monahan out after playing 62 games?

I almost think that he slots on the 4th line as a RW and take strong side draws for Monahan.

Monahan and Lindholm are equal at 52.9% this season.

I would leave Dube where he is right now, since he has looked good there?

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Tkachuk-Backlund-Dube

Mangiapane-Jarmkrok-Coleman

Lucic-Monahan-Carpenter

Lewis, Ritchie

 

 

[cross16]

I do like Carpenter but I don't think i'm taking Monahan out of the lineup for him. Monahan isn't playing poorly and I do get the "better fit for a 4th line argument" but I'm not there. Keep Monahan in there, give the line some pop and use him on the PP. 

 

work Carpenter in from time to time, see if he fits on the PK and use him more for depth and injuries than rush him in there. How I would do it anyway.