Flames Lineup - Suggested Lines

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, flames for life said:

I prefer this for a second line, because it allows Mangapane to play with a setup man in backlund.  Right now I think he is given a disservice by shuffling him all over the place.  He has been somewhat neutralized by trying to fit others in.  He is a 30 goal scorer so that should be the feed, not the other way around.

Just a thought, but for a 30 goal guy, I sure see him not getting the pass in the slot a lot. His linemates generally aren't finding him there too often, like he's the 3rd option. imo

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Just a thought, but for a 30 goal guy, I sure see him not getting the pass in the slot a lot. His linemates generally aren't finding him there too often, like he's the 3rd option. imo

 

When your most common linemates are Lucic and Lewis at 5v5, you aren't getting a lot of great passes.  A lot of gritty play, just not a lot of quiet space to get a shot from.  When he was on the top unit, the play was between Gaudreau, Lindy and Tkachuk.  If it works, no need to go elsewhere.  Besides, when Monahan was in the slot, his textbook shot wasn't there yet.

 

It's going to take some trial and error to find the right fit for him now.  Can't really use him on the top line, except for the odd shift.  There would always be some chemistry with Johnny and Lindy.  But we really lack secondary playmakers.  Mange and Toffoli are more finishers.  

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

When your most common linemates are Lucic and Lewis at 5v5, you aren't getting a lot of great passes.  A lot of gritty play, just not a lot of quiet space to get a shot from.  When he was on the top unit, the play was between Gaudreau, Lindy and Tkachuk.  If it works, no need to go elsewhere.  Besides, when Monahan was in the slot, his textbook shot wasn't there yet.

 

It's going to take some trial and error to find the right fit for him now.  Can't really use him on the top line, except for the odd shift.  There would always be some chemistry with Johnny and Lindy.  But we really lack secondary playmakers.  Mange and Toffoli are more finishers.  

I meant Mangiapane. He gets slot space often, but no pass.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I meant Mangiapane. He gets slot space often, but no pass.

 

Right, I was thinking former 30 goal scorer.

 

Regarding Mange, he's playing with Toffee and Jarny, which is not the guys that feed you.

AT least Jarny isn't ready for that yet.

It might do well to have Mange with Tkachuk and Backlund.

Top line suffers perhaps, but Mange would get the passes.

That puts Toffee with Johnny.

 

Let's see.  Which is a better mix?

JH-Lindy-Toffee

Mange-Backlund-Tkachuk

Coleman-Dube-Jarny

or

JH-Lindy-Tka

Mange-Backlund-Toffoli

Coleman-Dube-Jarny

[flames for life]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Right, I was thinking former 30 goal scorer.

 

Regarding Mange, he's playing with Toffee and Jarny, which is not the guys that feed you.

AT least Jarny isn't ready for that yet.

It might do well to have Mange with Tkachuk and Backlund.

Top line suffers perhaps, but Mange would get the passes.

That puts Toffee with Johnny.

 

Let's see.  Which is a better mix?

JH-Lindy-Toffee

Mange-Backlund-Tkachuk

Coleman-Dube-Jarny

or

JH-Lindy-Tka

Mange-Backlund-Toffoli

Coleman-Dube-Jarny

My point exactly.  Right now, he appears to be trying to be JH 2.0, which is not his best use.  He is more a sniper ( think Cammilari) than a playmaker.  The Backlund/Thachuk line would definitely suit Mangie’s skillset.

[MP5029]

23 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Right, I was thinking former 30 goal scorer.

 

Regarding Mange, he's playing with Toffee and Jarny, which is not the guys that feed you.

AT least Jarny isn't ready for that yet.

It might do well to have Mange with Tkachuk and Backlund.

Top line suffers perhaps, but Mange would get the passes.

That puts Toffee with Johnny.

 

Let's see.  Which is a better mix?

JH-Lindy-Toffee

Mange-Backlund-Tkachuk

Coleman-Dube-Jarny

or

JH-Lindy-Tka

Mange-Backlund-Toffoli

Coleman-Dube-Jarny

I think option B is best for the team…maybe not so much for

Manj but this is a team game…in an ideal world….

 

JH/Lindholm/Tachuck 

Manji/Monahan/Toffoil 

Coleman/Backlund/Dube 

 

but not sure how that would click…in some ways Coleman/Backlund should form a solid base for a deadly shutdown line…but Dube is questionable for that role…

 

as for Monahan…if he could

develop into a passer that would

set up a pretty amazing line…Monahan can pass very well, in the past if he wasn’t being fed by JH he was setting him up…it would great if all three of Manji/Monahan/Toffoil could kinda be balanced like the JH/Lindholm/Tachuck line that would a 1,2 line comb hard to beat them following up with Coleman/Backlund and…well not sure who fits best in a RW shutdown role with those two but we gotta have someone? 

[travel_dude]

I know last night was not the best example of a typical game, but it highlighted some things for me.

Top line is your dominant line and should not be broken up for linger than a game.

And that's only if they are getting donuts for at least one game.

Mange and Toffee belong on a line with a playdriver/passer.

They both excel at possession, but are both shooters.

Keep Dube hungry, feed him some minutes when really hungry.

Coleman and Jarnkrok seem like good options to shut down and transition the puck.

4th line needs players coming in and going out as the play dictates.

[cross16]

Looks like Monahan set to come back in

 

Nice to see Dube elevated. He's been very good the last few weeks. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Monahan set to come back in

 

Nice to see Dube elevated. He's been very good the last few weeks. 

 

 

 

Good to get Mionahan back in.  I'm not sure how the Carpenter experiment really worked, but Monahan is better at C, in my opinion.  Maybe he would be a better option for RW?

 

Would like to see Dube move to C, with Jarnkrok moving to RW, but they were a good line last game.  I wonder if Coleman stays on RW?  He seemed to be comfortable there in the past.  Or perhaps flip him and Dube on the wings?

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Monahan set to come back in

 

Nice to see Dube elevated. He's been very good the last few weeks. 

 

 

i wanna see Monahan back on the PP1. He knows them, and maybe keeping Backlund’s line together for PP2 and adding Dube to it would get them some needed chemistry going into the playoffs. But Monahan understands how all of those players on PP1 work. He has the shot to go with it. It might give him confidence to elevate the rest of his game. Not giving it to him, but he can score.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

i wanna see Monahan back on the PP1. He knows them, and maybe keeping Backlund’s line together for PP2 and adding Dube to it would get them some needed chemistry going into the playoffs. But Monahan understands how all of those players on PP1 work. He has the shot to go with it. It might give him confidence to elevate the rest of his game. Not giving it to him, but he can score.

 

I think the top unit is fine.  The 2nd unit needs help.

Last game was Coleman (or Jarnkrok)-Dube-Backlund-Mangiapane-Hanifin.

I would sub in Monahan for Dube, for the extra strong C.

Or put him in for Backlund and sub Kylington for Dube.

 

One thing we just don't have enough of is RHS's on the PP.

Keeping Jarny in there makes sense.

Prefer Kylington's puck movement from the blueline.

He rarely loses possession.

And can beat anyone in a race back to our zone.

[zima]

I think it is great to hear Kyl has become the player I was hoping a few yrs back I always thought with his speed he would be great against McD he has the speed to counter McD turns out BT did awesome on the trade front that yr. He had some awesome picks 5 top players in the line up tonight that were picked or traded for in 2015 and ended up with Lin and Hann all playing for us this yr. Long winded I know but have to give him creds for how he works behind the scenes. Keeping Kyl and being patient with him turned oujt to work out for us. Sorry jmo had to spew my thoughts;) 

[travel_dude]

Some gems from Sutter:

 

Re: guys that have cup experience - it's a what have you done lately, otherwise guys from cup winners in the past would still be playing.

Re: goal scoring - scoring not the issue, but if you score goals and have disappeared for many game, then you need to get back to it.

Re: chances - blue pain and just outside, you have to go there.  If you just do 70 foot passes it's not going to work.

Re: Jarnkrok - better than the last game. 

Re; playoffs - team has zero success, has to become a contender.

Re: winning at home - team told him they wanted to be be better at home, make the Dome a scary place.  First you institute the training and conditioning, then the \structure, then the effort.  Only reason why we are top of Pacific.

[flames for life]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:03 PM, conundrumed said:

Just a thought, but for a 30 goal guy, I sure see him not getting the pass in the slot a lot. His linemates generally aren't finding him there too often, like he's the 3rd option. imo

I see that too, and that why I think they are trying to create JH 2.0, instead of letting the sniper be himself.  He should be fed pucks, not the other way around.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I see that too, and that why I think they are trying to create JH 2.0, instead of letting the sniper be himself.  He should be fed pucks, not the other way around.

 

So, with him playing on Backlund's wing, the pass isn't coming from Backlund.  Toffoli is a shooter.  Backlund thinks he is one.  I like his play, especially when he takes the puck hard to the net, but a 2 on 1 that doesn't see a finisher getting the pass is worrisome.  

[flames for life]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, with him playing on Backlund's wing, the pass isn't coming from Backlund.  Toffoli is a shooter.  Backlund thinks he is one.  I like his play, especially when he takes the puck hard to the net, but a 2 on 1 that doesn't see a finisher getting the pass is worrisome.  

And yet, their shots on net and possession rate is better as a threesome than apart.  If Dube continues to progress, maybe,  but he also comes off as a shoot first guy.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, flames for life said:

And yet, their shots on net and possession rate is better as a threesome than apart.  If Dube continues to progress, maybe,  but he also comes off as a shoot first guy.

 

Toffoli, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Monahan, possibly Dube are primarily shooters.

Having two shooters on one line doesn't work out so good.

Mange-Backlund-Tkachuk works.

Mange-Backlund-Coleman works.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk works.

 

We have a bit of a letdown with Toffoli and Mangiapane recently at 5v5.

Not sure how to fix it.

I thought Ruzie added some passing to Mangiapane.

 

Maybe this would work:

Coleman-Backlund-Toffoli

Mangiapane-Dube-Jarnkrok

 

[flames for life]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Toffoli, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Monahan, possibly Dube are primarily shooters.

Having two shooters on one line doesn't work out so good.

Mange-Backlund-Tkachuk works.

Mange-Backlund-Coleman works.

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk works.

 

We have a bit of a letdown with Toffoli and Mangiapane recently at 5v5.

Not sure how to fix it.

I thought Ruzie added some passing to Mangiapane.

 

Maybe this would work:

Coleman-Backlund-Toffoli

Mangiapane-Dube-Jarnkrok

 

I would like to see Mangiapane-Backlund-Dube.  That gives speed and a variety of patterns with 2 shooters and a center playing with more tenacity. (Pick the C, the description fits ‘‘em both)

[The_People1]

On 3/29/2022 at 10:58 AM, cross16 said:

Looks like Monahan set to come back in

 

Nice to see Dube elevated. He's been very good the last few weeks. 

 

 

 

That Lucic - Monahan - Lewis line is way too slow.  Cringe times when they are on the ice.

[travel_dude]

Posted this elsewhere.

 

Monahan out for the season.  Needs surgery on his other hip.

Done until training camp.

Shilly day to day.

Mackey recalled, though we need a better C than Carpenter.

Can't really do anything about it right now until Shilly is back.

[travel_dude]

Not sure how they adjust for the loss of Monahan and Shilly.

Could bring in Ritchie against STL.

Use STone as he's the next man up.

 

Or they use the RHS C they got at TDL and play the better of the two defense.

 

I'm guessing, but...

 

Top line

Mange-Backlund-Toffee

Coleman-Jarnkrok-Dube

Lucic-Carpenter-Lewis

 

Top pair

Mackey-Tanev

Zaddy-Guddy

 

I think it's better to go with a puck moving LHS to pair up with Tanev than a RHS.

Stone is a heavy player and could be an option against LA or SJS, but I go with the puck mover.

Carpenter gives you more options on the PK than Ritchie.

Puts a better winger on RW.

I suppose you could use Carpebnter on RW also, but either way, probably better than Ritchie.

[Horsman1]

first line has been set most all season... gaudreau/lindholm/tkachuk.. 4th line has been, lucic/lewis and now with Monahan gone on Long Term. it will be Ritchie or Carpenter.. that leaves.. Mangiapane and Toffolli together as the second line.. and Backlund and Coleman as the Vet line..only players left are Dube and Jarnrok.. I'd put Jarnrok with Toffolli and Mangiapane and Dube with Backlund and Coleman.. we have 6 right shot forwards.. lindholm/Jarnrok/Toffolli/Lewis/Carpenter and Ritchie.and 7 players that have played center..Dube/Lindholm/Jarnrok/Backlund/Lewis/Coleman/Carpenter 

[conundrumed]

On 3/30/2022 at 5:33 PM, travel_dude said:

 

So, with him playing on Backlund's wing, the pass isn't coming from Backlund.  Toffoli is a shooter.  Backlund thinks he is one.  I like his play, especially when he takes the puck hard to the net, but a 2 on 1 that doesn't see a finisher getting the pass is worrisome.  

We haven't had a better 4th line than Lucic-Rozie-Lewis this year by my accounting. Rozie's even potted a couple on line changes with Johnny and Tkachuk.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

We haven't had a better 4th line than Lucic-Rozie-Lewis this year by my accounting. Rozie's even potted a couple on line changes with Johnny and Tkachuk.

 

I'm having trouble figuring out the middle 6 right now.  The bottom line is going to be important going into the playoffs.  Most teams have a good top 6.  I haven't figured out what our middle 6 is.

 

Top line is 100% what you want.  If they get shut down for a game, then you blend them a bit.  The Backlund line should really be the best defensive players, not expecting them to be a scoring line.  There should be a guy that can shoot, but I think Coleman is the best guy to keep there.  Maybe Mangiapane should be the extra.  Third line then gives you Dube, Jarnkrok, Toffee.  4th line I would be comfortable with Lucic-Rozie-Lewis.  Carpenter looked good, but I think he's not as useful and not as dynamic a scorer as Rozie. 

 

Just speculating, but if we used Rozie on the 3rd line does that make a more dangerous one and allow us to use Dube with Backlund?

 

Top line

Coleman-Backlund-Dube

Mange-Rozie-Toffee

Lucic-Jarnkrok-Lewis   

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

We haven't had a better 4th line than Lucic-Rozie-Lewis this year by my accounting. Rozie's even potted a couple on line changes with Johnny and Tkachuk.

 

That's why Rucizka will never play in the NHL again.