UFA 2021

[travel_dude]

BT suggesting that work is not done with the team.

Obviously won't say what that means.

Mentions only 5 D and what they can bring.

Seems to still have faith in Valimaki.

Wouldn't surprise me if he signed another top 4 D.

Losing Gio a big blow to the defense.

 

Saying all that, we still have a few holes.

Loss of scoring from the D.

Some nice defensive guys added for depth, but still lack scoring.

 

We're tougher to play against, but 1-0 and 2-1 games should be the fall back plan, not the goal.

At least IMHO.

[ABC923]

I’m kind of surprised Nick Ritchie is still unsigned. Wouldn’t mind him here.

[LouCifer]

22 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I’m kind of surprised Nick Ritchie is still unsigned. Wouldn’t mind him here.

Perhaps his asking price was too high. And, does Lewis replace him as a need?
 

also, Maybe letting Ritchie sit for a bit will get him thinking about joining his brother for less money. Maybe Eichel coming here will do the same. 

[kehatch]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

BT suggesting that work is not done with the team.

Obviously won't say what that means.

Mentions only 5 D and what they can bring.

Seems to still have faith in Valimaki.

Wouldn't surprise me if he signed another top 4 D.

Losing Gio a big blow to the defense.

 

Saying all that, we still have a few holes.

Loss of scoring from the D.

Some nice defensive guys added for depth, but still lack scoring.

 

We're tougher to play against, but 1-0 and 2-1 games should be the fall back plan, not the goal.

At least IHOP. 

 

It looks like BT is build a team around his coach with the addition of a big D and defensive physical wingers. I think the changes he made will be bigger in practice then they are on paper due to this mixing up our DNA. 

 

But I agree work still needs to be done. We are weak down the middle and we need another upgrade at D. I also think we need to mix up the forward core by moving one of Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau. 

 

I would love to see the Eichel move made with one of those players (prefer Monahan) out. Adding Ritchie or one more crasher would help fit the Sutter system. I would also love to see an upgrade on D. That's a lot to ask with limited cap and without selling the farm, but that's my wish list. 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

Flames D is going to be really starved for offence, which I think is a bigger problem than they think. Guess we'll see. 

 

For sures. 

 

Rasmus Andersson is the obvious pick to receive more PP time due to Giordano's departure but I have doubts that he can crack 45-points.  5-on-5, Andersson's offense is limited.  We already know Hanifin and Tanev are no wizards in the offensive zone so... we're talking like 12 to 20-points for each of them.  Zadorov is good for 5 to 10-points.  Valimaki has the highest ceiling but we already know Sutter will not play Valimaki so he's probably looking at 20-points max.  Kylington and Mackey may share starts all season.  I mean, ya, the Flames blueline isn't going to chip in much offensively which means the forward lines are not getting any help.

 

Depth scoring was one of our biggest problems last season and our D struggling to score is going to amplify this problem.

[jjgallow]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

For sures. 

 

Rasmus Andersson is the obvious pick to receive more PP time due to Giordano's departure but I have doubts that he can crack 45-points.  5-on-5, Andersson's offense is limited.  We already know Hanifin and Tanev are no wizards in the offensive zone so... we're talking like 12 to 20-points for each of them.  Zadorov is good for 5 to 10-points.  Valimaki has the highest ceiling but we already know Sutter will not play Valimaki so he's probably looking at 20-points max.  Kylington and Mackey may share starts all season.  I mean, ya, the Flames blueline isn't going to chip in much offensively which means the forward lines are not getting any help.

 

Depth scoring was one of our biggest problems last season and our D struggling to score is going to amplify this problem.

 

Yup.   Party of me misses those days when a Regehr could change the outcome of a game.

 

Not that we have him either.

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yup.   Party of me misses those days when a Regehr could change the outcome of a game.

 

Not that we have him either.

 

We are going to need at least one 45-point Dman to keep pace with the rest of the league.  It's not asking for a lot but even that's a challenge for us.  We were at our best when Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton were capable of 45-points.  Now, we might not even have one.  

[cross16]

Ritchie to the Leafs. 
 

 

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Ritchie to the Leafs. 
 

 

Damn I was hoping you meant Brett.

[cross16]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

For sures. 

 

Rasmus Andersson is the obvious pick to receive more PP time due to Giordano's departure but I have doubts that he can crack 45-points.  5-on-5, Andersson's offense is limited.  We already know Hanifin and Tanev are no wizards in the offensive zone so... we're talking like 12 to 20-points for each of them.  Zadorov is good for 5 to 10-points.  Valimaki has the highest ceiling but we already know Sutter will not play Valimaki so he's probably looking at 20-points max.  Kylington and Mackey may share starts all season.  I mean, ya, the Flames blueline isn't going to chip in much offensively which means the forward lines are not getting any help.

 

Depth scoring was one of our biggest problems last season and our D struggling to score is going to amplify this problem.

PP is for sure a concern of mine. Even with Gio here they didn’t really have a PP QB and while I think Anderson’s shot can be a weapon on the PP he really isn’t a QB. It would be a good role to work Valkmaki into and help him grow some confidence. Was very successful at it in junior. Hanifin looked decent at it but if Hanifin is going to play a lot of PP then so kills penalties? Hanifin-Tanev likely going to be their top 5on5 pair so I’m not sure you can rely on Hanifin for both special teams. I personally don’t see him as a 24-25 min a night dman. 
 

Even at 5on 5 I’m concerned around their ability to transition . At the same time I think a lot of this depend on Rasmus. If he bounces back, as 2 years ago he was looking like one of the best transition defenders on the league, it won’t be as bad but if he struggles they are really in rough shape pending what they do with the 3rd pairing. 
 

Sutters system also depends on a lot of point shots so having 2 dmen in your top 6 who offer nothing there will likely be leading to some missed opportunities. Creating a role for Valimaki I think could ease some of these concerns so hopefully that’s part of the plan. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Ritchie to the Leafs. 
 

 

 

For that money, I am somewhat happy we stayed away.

I like the Kase signing as a more risky but higher reward option.

[travel_dude]

There isn't a lot in the UFA list that really excites me.

Palmieri and Ryan Murray is about it.

There are others there that make some sense, but nothing that really moves the needle.

 

Palmieri, if the price was right.

A top 6 RW.

Makes it easier if we traded Tkachuk for Eichel.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Palmieri

Coleman-Monahan-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Backlund-Dube

 

Or if we traded Monahan:

Gaudreau-Eichel-Palmieri

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Coleman

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick

 

Murray is a bit of injury risk, but is a decent option for LD.

 

[pikey7883]

39 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

There isn't a lot in the UFA list that really excites me.

Palmieri and Ryan Murray is about it.

There are others there that make some sense, but nothing that really moves the needle.

 

Palmieri, if the price was right.

A top 6 RW.

Makes it easier if we traded Tkachuk for Eichel.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Palmieri

Coleman-Monahan-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Backlund-Dube

 

Or if we traded Monahan:

Gaudreau-Eichel-Palmieri

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Coleman

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick

 

Murray is a bit of injury risk, but is a decent option for LD.

 

I don’t know if I love palmieri on that first line, but the first option with our 2nd and 3rd line is very good

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I don’t know if I love palmieri on that first line, but the first option with our 2nd and 3rd line is very good

 

Without Palmiaeri, it's still not bad, but lessens the 3rd line:

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Monahan-Coleman

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick

[jjgallow]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We are going to need at least one 45-point Dman to keep pace with the rest of the league.  It's not asking for a lot but even that's a challenge for us.  We were at our best when Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton were capable of 45-points.  Now, we might not even have one.  

 

It can't be emphasized enough.

 

This, simply put, is the #2 reason why I am focused on the Shane Wright and Conor Bedard drafts right now and have thrown the towel in on the Flames until then. 

 

(The #1 reason is our goaltending and the #3 reason is the entire right hand side of the ice)

 

It's not so much that we lack skilled D, as much as the Flames don't care that we do.     It took years of absolutely zero planning  to get us where we are now.

 

And you can't recover from it.  Not on FA, not in trades.   Because no team that has them is crazy enough to let them go for less than an arm and a leg.   (Except us).

 

It's not a coincidence that our forward line production dropped off as our skilled D aged.   It's fate.   Given the complete lack of succession planning I can only assume the Flames either don't understand or don't care about this.

 

We just went through TWO of the most talent-laden Defenceman drafts in NHL history.  Guys who could have helped, in some cases, almost immediately. 

 

Flames weren't even interested in them. 

 

I don't know what to say

[The_People1]

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

It can't be emphasized enough.

 

This, simply put, is the #2 reason why I am focused on the Shane Wright and Conor Bedard drafts right now and have thrown the towel in on the Flames until then. 

 

(The #1 reason is our goaltending and the #3 reason is the entire right hand side of the ice)

 

It's not so much that we lack skilled D, as much as the Flames don't care that we do.     It took years of absolutely zero planning  to get us where we are now.

 

And you can't recover from it.  Not on FA, not in trades.   Because no team that has them is crazy enough to let them go for less than an arm and a leg.   (Except us).

 

It's not a coincidence that our forward line production dropped off as our skilled D aged.   It's fate.   Given the complete lack of succession planning I can only assume the Flames either don't understand or don't care about this.

 

We just went through TWO of the most talent-laden Defenceman drafts in NHL history.  Guys who could have helped, in some cases, almost immediately. 

 

Flames weren't even interested in them. 

 

I don't know what to say

 

With an offensively challenged Blueline and bottom six forwards, I mean, were going to want about 82(games) X 3(goals per game) = 246 goals.

 

Our top 6 is going to have to score over 200-goals.  That's 34-goals per top 6 player.

 

Looks like we have to try and win 2-1 every game.

[jjgallow]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

With an offensively challenged Blueline and bottom six forwards, I mean, were going to want about 82(games) X 3(goals per game) = 246 goals.

 

Our top 6 is going to have to score over 200-goals.  That's 34-goals per top 6 player.

 

Looks like we have to try and win 2-1 every game.

 

And we have the right coach for that, but not the right goaltenders or defencemen or decade.      Hopefully our left wingers can come through for Sutter to deliver those 2-1 wins.

[MP5029]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

For sures. 

 

Rasmus Andersson is the obvious pick to receive more PP time due to Giordano's departure but I have doubts that he can crack 45-points.  5-on-5, Andersson's offense is limited.  We already know Hanifin and Tanev are no wizards in the offensive zone so... we're talking like 12 to 20-points for each of them.  Zadorov is good for 5 to 10-points.  Valimaki has the highest ceiling but we already know Sutter will not play Valimaki so he's probably looking at 20-points max.  Kylington and Mackey may share starts all season.  I mean, ya, the Flames blueline isn't going to chip in much offensively which means the forward lines are not getting any help.

 

Depth scoring was one of our biggest problems last season and our D struggling to score is going to amplify this problem.

I’m not sure about Valimaki, I have a feeling you may see Sutter use him mor this year, I think she was tough on him to basically light a fire under him and get his progression going…if memory serves I think Sutter kInda did this with Brodie for a bit early on and once he found Gio and Brodie clicked that’s where Brodie stayed for a long time…I’m kinda hoping for Valimaki to be paired with Anderson bit on then same note Anderson has some untapped offensive ability so you don’t really want tow offensive D on the same like if you can help it but, then again Gio/Brodie were both offensive at any give time so I guess maybe if Anderson and Valimaki managed some chemistry like Gio and Brodie had it could work… 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

It can't be emphasized enough.

 

This, simply put, is the #2 reason why I am focused on the Shane Wright and Conor Bedard drafts right now and have thrown the towel in on the Flames until then. 

 

(The #1 reason is our goaltending and the #3 reason is the entire right hand side of the ice)

 

It's not so much that we lack skilled D, as much as the Flames don't care that we do.     It took years of absolutely zero planning  to get us where we are now.

 

And you can't recover from it.  Not on FA, not in trades.   Because no team that has them is crazy enough to let them go for less than an arm and a leg.   (Except us).

 

It's not a coincidence that our forward line production dropped off as our skilled D aged.   It's fate.   Given the complete lack of succession planning I can only assume the Flames either don't understand or don't care about this.

 

We just went through TWO of the most talent-laden Defenceman drafts in NHL history.  Guys who could have helped, in some cases, almost immediately. 

 

Flames weren't even interested in them. 

 

I don't know what to say

 

You have to be the most negative fan I have ever seen.  

Have need for a solid starter, we sign one, and you have a meltdown because he is 30.

Goaltending was only a issue last year when JM was injured and getting back up to speed.

Wanted a D or G in the draft in the first round, and are barely satisfied that all we got was a RHS winger.

Our forward prospect pool was thin and you wanted us to pick nothing but D to fix a long term issue.

 

Trading Gio last summer was not much of an option, was it.

Teams needing flexibility for the weird season.

Places Gio accepting a trade to limited in cap.

TDL trade almost impossible.

Savard was a close comp, but they had to use another team to make it happen.

And Gio was getting you that kind of return.

Perhaps more of a market the year before, but questionable.

 

My concern for the team is not scoring, since we did okay with players having down years; they will rebound.

A bit more concern that we can build a good PP.

My concern is keeping the puck out of the net.

Not having that 2nd top 4 D.

Zadorov is going to be fine punishing players in front of the net (hello Hyman and Yamamoto).

Angling players away from the prime real estate is a more important.

Ras nad Tanev are decent at it, Hanifin a bit less.

Valimaki is still learning and Zaddy is an adventure.

 

 

 

[jjgallow]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You have to be the most negative fan I have ever seen.  

Have need for a solid starter, we sign one, and you have a meltdown because he is 30.

Goaltending was only a issue last year when JM was injured and getting back up to speed.

Wanted a D or G in the draft in the first round, and are barely satisfied that all we got was a RHS winger.

Our forward prospect pool was thin and you wanted us to pick nothing but D to fix a long term issue.

 

Trading Gio last summer was not much of an option, was it.

Teams needing flexibility for the weird season.

Places Gio accepting a trade to limited in cap.

TDL trade almost impossible.

Savard was a close comp, but they had to use another team to make it happen.

And Gio was getting you that kind of return.

Perhaps more of a market the year before, but questionable.

 

My concern for the team is not scoring, since we did okay with players having down years; they will rebound.

A bit more concern that we can build a good PP.

My concern is keeping the puck out of the net.

Not having that 2nd top 4 D.

Zadorov is going to be fine punishing players in front of the net (hello Hyman and Yamamoto).

Angling players away from the prime real estate is a more important.

Ras nad Tanev are decent at it, Hanifin a bit less.

Valimaki is still learning and Zaddy is an adventure.

 

I won't be negative forever, at least I don't think.   Everything happens in cycles and our time will come. 

[cross16]

I wonder if the Flames would take a look at Erik Gustafsson again. He was a good fit here and their PP was dynamite with him. I know they didn’t re sign him last year but it didn’t really make sense to with the makeup of their d. Makes a lot more sense this year. 

[The_People1]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I wonder if the Flames would take a look at Erik Gustafsson again. He was a good fit here and their PP was dynamite with him. I know they didn’t re sign him last year but it didn’t really make sense to with the makeup of their d. Makes a lot more sense this year. 

 

How much though?

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

How much though?

I’m thinking less than what he got last year, which was 1 year 3mill AAV. 

[MP5029]

9 hours ago, cross16 said:

I wonder if the Flames would take a look at Erik Gustafsson again. He was a good fit here and their PP was dynamite with him. I know they didn’t re sign him last year but it didn’t really make sense to with the makeup of their d. Makes a lot more sense this year. 

Gustafson on a 1-2 year deal at around 2 mil per would be reasonable…max 3 years at 2.5 after that it’s not worth it whatsoever…even 3x2.5 is getting questionable 

[travel_dude]

An interesting look at Ryan Murray:

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2021/08/01/2021-flames-ufa-targets-ryan-murray/