Heartbreaker Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 12 hours ago, robrob74 said: we should do that in Van. I met @Heartbreaker and play be some hockey with them on a team for a year, went to a Flames game too. Need more of that! And it was the coolest! That was the game where James Neil lost eight teeth! Love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 A week out, lots of chat about the Flames and Cole Sillinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 23 hours ago, sak22 said: No, it was Datsyuks contract and #16 (Chychrun) for #20 (Cholowski) a 2nd rounder that year (Hronek) and Vitale. Not one that should go as one of Hollands blunders even though Chychrun is the best of all picks there. Thanks Sak, I should never rely on my old guy memory.😂 My most vivid memory from that draft was watching Chychrun fall. I'm a Sarnia guy, so seeing Van take Juolevi and Chychrun fall, I was completely beside myself. I think it was Sergachev before Chychrun too. All I could think was jfc, how did any scout come to this conclusion? Mind blown. Then I was, "YES!! Detroit!!" Nope.🙄 One lousy jr tourney of Chychrun trying to carry all of the weight, inexplicably led to his fall. WJC, all those tourneys, I have no idea why they carry any leverage, period. They should be nothing tourneys just fun to watch. But scouts are generally back-slapping, keg tapping shmoozers anyways, parading in self-importance at the rink. *end rant*😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 Bob McKenzie released his last draft rankings, some of you may be pleased he has Wallstadt at 12. Strangely enough he has Cossa not far behind (15). Bob McKenzie's 2021 final draft rankings - TSN.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 34 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: Bob McKenzie released his last draft rankings, some of you may be pleased he has Wallstadt at 12. Strangely enough he has Cossa not far behind (15). Bob McKenzie's 2021 final draft rankings - TSN.ca It's hard to argue with that list, but McTavish a little high in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: Bob McKenzie released his last draft rankings, some of you may be pleased he has Wallstadt at 12. Strangely enough he has Cossa not far behind (15). Bob McKenzie's 2021 final draft rankings - TSN.ca their lists are definitely getting refined, this may be the best one yet. Although I would say they have Ceulemans too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 minute ago, jjgallow said: their lists are definitely getting refined, this may be the best one yet. Although I would say they have Ceulemans too low. And perhaps Cossa too high? If you look at where he has Tuomaala, and consider his U18 stats, seems like a low rating for him too. Button seems to like him, but not Bobby Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, travel_dude said: And perhaps Cossa too high? If you look at where he has Tuomaala, and consider his U18 stats, seems like a low rating for him too. Button seems to like him, but not Bobby Mac. Perhaps too high for Cossa, but perhaps not. It is on the high range of what I thought, yes. but then I don't remember the last time I saw a goalie this strong come out of the WHL. Tuomaala is ranked surprisingly low, yes. But while we're at it, let's not forget Chibrikov. Both of them are perhaps poorly scouted standouts. Chibrikov reminds me of the Kucherov situation where you can actually have 17 and 18 year olds playing successfully in the KHL and they don't get any love in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 minute ago, jjgallow said: Perhaps too high for Cossa, but perhaps not. It is on the high range of what I thought, yes. but then I don't remember the last time I saw a goalie this strong come out of the WHL. Tuomaala is ranked surprisingly low, yes. But while we're at it, let's not forget Chibrikov. Both of them are perhaps poorly scouted standouts. Chibrikov reminds me of the Kucherov situation where you can actually have 17 and 18 year olds playing successfully in the KHL and they don't get any love in the draft. I think recent statements from Cossa suggest that he feels he is the top goalie in the draft. Maybe BM is buying into that. What I find interesting is when you compare pre-draft results between a 6'6" goalie and a 6'0" goalie in 2019, one went in the 7th round. The other will go in the 1st or 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 Where do most of you think Wolf would stand today in this draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, zima said: Where do most of you think Wolf would stand today in this draft? Well if the league was to do a 2019 re-draft, he definitely isn't a 7th rounder, he'd be going much higher. If he was draft eligible this season, he's likely a mid round pick. Teams will always overlook goalies that lack height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: I think recent statements from Cossa suggest that he feels he is the top goalie in the draft. Maybe BM is buying into that. What I find interesting is when you compare pre-draft results between a 6'6" goalie and a 6'0" goalie in 2019, one went in the 7th round. The other will go in the 1st or 2nd. A fair point, 6 rounds difference is a bit extreme. But, to that point I think the greater anomaly is that Wolf was left to the 7th round, he should have been a mid-round pick. Teams are just Sooo afraid to draft goalies anymore who aren't over 6'2. You're preaching the the choir, I don't agree with the size discrepancy, but I don't think it's the scouts that are wrong. It's the NHL that's wrong for giving taller goalies an unfair advantage imho. It's essentially a licence to cheat and until it's changed, it is what it is. Yeah a 6'6 goalie who can lead the WHL will have a huge unfair advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 2 hours ago, jjgallow said: A fair point, 6 rounds difference is a bit extreme. But, to that point I think the greater anomaly is that Wolf was left to the 7th round, he should have been a mid-round pick. Teams are just Sooo afraid to draft goalies anymore who aren't over 6'2. You're preaching the the choir, I don't agree with the size discrepancy, but I don't think it's the scouts that are wrong. It's the NHL that's wrong for giving taller goalies an unfair advantage imho. It's essentially a licence to cheat and until it's changed, it is what it is. Yeah a 6'6 goalie who can lead the WHL will have a huge unfair advantage. If he had done it for a regular season, I may be closer to agreeing with you. But, overall, he's had limited showing at the WHL level. Beat out Wolf by 1/10 of a percent in two seasons My point in drawing this out was to suggest that if Cossa is can't miss, then Wolf is moreso, due to longer career, consistent stats and playing more every year. Being taller is not key to success like Bishop and Smith have had, as we have seen many a tall one fail. Being taller and being able to do so for full seasonas is more impressive. EDIT - I have made a crucial error. I used HockeyDB, and they listed 2020-21 twice, implying Cossa had 3 season in the WHL. Correction, he's only played 2 season, a total off 52 games. .928 for those 52 games. Yes, this year he had .941 in 19 games, beating Wolf by .001. Thought it odd that he had tw seasons with exactly the same SA%. Same is true of Wolf. A duplicate year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 52 minutes ago, travel_dude said: If he had done it for a regular season, I may be closer to agreeing with you. But, overall, he's had limited showing at the WHL level. Beat out Wolf by 1/10 of a percent in two seasons My point in drawing this out was to suggest that if Cossa is can't miss, then Wolf is moreso, due to longer career, consistent stats and playing more every year. Being taller is not key to success like Bishop and Smith have had, as we have seen many a tall one fail. Being taller and being able to do so for full seasonas is more impressive. EDIT - I have made a crucial error. I used HockeyDB, and they listed 2020-21 twice, implying Cossa had 3 season in the WHL. Correction, he's only played 2 season, a total off 52 games. .928 for those 52 games. Yes, this year he had .941 in 19 games, beating Wolf by .001. Thought it odd that he had tw seasons with exactly the same SA%. Same is true of Wolf. A duplicate year. Yup hockeydb's been trippin me up for a couple weeks now, i hope they fix whatever's going on there. It's forced me to use eliteprospects a few times which then pretty much shuts my computer down from all the garbage ads. Being taller is definitely not the key to success but it might be one requirement. Smaller goalies can make it but it gets more rare every year. I would like to see the rule challenged. both the NHL and the manufacturers brought to task to come up with equipment that isn't ridiculous and is far safer for all sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 My final mock 1. BUF- Power 2. SEA- Beniers 3. ANA- Eklund 4. NJ- Hughes 5. CBJ- Edvinsson 6. DET- Wallstedt 7. SJ- McTavish 8. LA- Clarke 9. VAN- Guenther 10. OTT- Johnson 11. CHI- Sillinger What would you be doing at 12 in this scenario? I'd likely go Coronato, but would consider Lucius, Lysell, Svechkov or even Cossa. Would also consider moving back if an offer exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said: My final mock 1. BUF- Power 2. SEA- Beniers 3. ANA- Eklund 4. NJ- Hughes 5. CBJ- Edvinsson 6. DET- Wallstedt 7. SJ- McTavish 8. LA- Clarke 9. VAN- Guenther 10. OTT- Johnson 11. CHI- Sillinger What would you be doing at 12 in this scenario? I'd likely go Coronato, but would consider Lucius, Lysell, Svechkov or even Cossa. Would also consider moving back if an offer exists. Pretty much agree the usual suspects are all gone by 12. They say this is a draft where anything can happen but in my opinion, the anything can happen part begins at pick #12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketdoctor Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 Ok so we know JJ wants to take a goalie!! Of the 2 I could get behind a Wallstedt pick but Cossa looks a big round 1 gamble to me. Afterall our past successes with goalies in the first round is not very impressive. Kidd 11th Krahn 9th Irving 26th Muzzatti 21st Just some names:- Brodeur 20th overall Hasek 199th overall Roy 51st overall Price 5th overall Fleury 1st overall Kiprusoff 116th overall Joseph - undrafted Recent years goalies taken in round 1 2020 - Askarov 11th 2019 - Knight 13th 2018 - None 2017 - Jake Oetteinger 26th 2016 - None 2015 - Samsonov 22nd 2014 - None 2013 - None 2012 - Vasilevskey 19th Subban 24th 2011 - None So in the last 10 years only 6 goalies have gone in round 1. Vasileveskey arguably the best goalie in the league right now but Subban taken 5 picks later is a backup at best. Jury is still out Askarov Spencer Knight looks like he will be a solid goaltender and Oetteinger has played 26 games for Dallas So is Cossa more Subban or Vasilevsky? Is Wallestedt the next Fleury? Or is there a Domink Hasek sonewhere in the later rounds? There is no guarantee taking one of these top 2 goaile prospects is a recipe for success. Taking a goalie in round 1 is a huge gamble. I think I would be in the camp of making a safer pick in round 1. If Wallstedt falls to 12 then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 21, 2021 Report Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, rocketdoctor said: Ok so we know JJ wants to take a goalie!! Of the 2 I could get behind a Wallstedt pick but Cossa looks a big round 1 gamble to me. Afterall our past successes with goalies in the first round is not very impressive. Kidd 11th Krahn 9th Irving 26th Muzzatti 21st Just some names:- Brodeur 20th overall Hasek 199th overall Roy 51st overall Price 5th overall Fleury 1st overall Kiprusoff 116th overall Joseph - undrafted Recent years goalies taken in round 1 2020 - Askarov 11th 2019 - Knight 13th 2018 - None 2017 - Jake Oetteinger 26th 2016 - None 2015 - Samsonov 22nd 2014 - None 2013 - None 2012 - Vasilevskey 19th Subban 24th 2011 - None So in the last 10 years only 6 goalies have gone in round 1. Vasileveskey arguably the best goalie in the league right now but Subban taken 5 picks later is a backup at best. Jury is still out Askarov Spencer Knight looks like he will be a solid goaltender and Oetteinger has played 26 games for Dallas So is Cossa more Subban or Vasilevsky? Is Wallestedt the next Fleury? Or is there a Domink Hasek sonewhere in the later rounds? There is no guarantee taking one of these top 2 goaile prospects is a recipe for success. Taking a goalie in round 1 is a huge gamble. I think I would be in the camp of making a safer pick in round 1. If Wallstedt falls to 12 then..... 2004 - Pekka Rinne 258th.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Detroit just traded for Nedeljkovik, so I expect that means they are out on Wallstedt. Ottawa lost Daccord, so they might be much more inclined now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 4 hours ago, travel_dude said: Detroit just traded for Nedeljkovik, so I expect that means they are out on Wallstedt. Ottawa lost Daccord, so they might be much more inclined now. Only a 2yr deal though. A goalie with 29 games experience shouldn't much effect their draft board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: Only a 2yr deal though. A goalie with 29 games experience shouldn't much effect their draft board. True. But a 29 game experienced vet with really good numbers in regular season and 9 playoff games should give you some pause about building your team starting with a goalie with your top pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: Only a 2yr deal though. A goalie with 29 games experience shouldn't much effect their draft board. for that many games, I don’t get how a goalie gets paid as much as he did. Was it a 3M AAV? Seems high for not proving anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, robrob74 said: for that many games, I don’t get how a goalie gets paid as much as he did. Was it a 3M AAV? Seems high for not proving anything yet. He’s arbitration eligible. Has a save percentage of .928 in his career and was a Calder Finalist. He picked a good time to have a big season. 5 minutes ago, travel_dude said: True. But a 29 game experienced vet with really good numbers in regular season and 9 playoff games should give you some pause about building your team starting with a goalie with your top pick. and for sure, Detroit might not take him. Yzerman will always take his guy, and maybe it’s the goalie, maybe it’s not. I think Wallstedt ends up with DET, OTT or LA though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: He’s arbitration eligible. Has a save percentage of .928 in his career and was a Calder Finalist. He picked a good time to have a big season. and for sure, Detroit might not take him. Yzerman will always take his guy, and maybe it’s the goalie, maybe it’s not. I think Wallstedt ends up with DET, OTT or LA though I agree. Some suggest that he's more likely to fall to us now, while I have a problem seeing that. Stranger things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: I agree. Some suggest that he's more likely to fall to us now, while I have a problem seeing that. Stranger things happen. I still think BT is going to trade the pick on the draft floor. It’s going to hurt because it’s going to be a costly pay. But he’s going to want to fill a Top4 D or Top6 C/RW spot. it is either a pick or Zary/Pelletier or a combo. BT is in win now mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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