Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[travel_dude]

43 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

So anyone still think we shouldn’t have signed Toffoil? Man I screamed for him to be signed...now Look!

 

imagine if we had have signed him:

 

Gaudreau/Monahan/Toffoil 

Tachuck/Lindholm/Simon

manji/Backlund/ Venio

Dube/Bennet/Ryan 

 

Lucic spare/taxi squad 

 

that looks sooo much better and imagine rolling those 4 lines right now nearly equal mins could be spread and keep fresh legs out on the ice all the time.

 

  

 

Who are you trading for a pick?

Or was it not signing Markstrom or Tanev.

Oh, who is Veino?

[MP5029]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Who are you trading for a pick?

Or was it not signing Markstrom or Tanev.

Oh, who is Veino?

sorry, Levio 

 

And I was talking about this past FA season Toffoil @4,250,000 less current cap space = 1,600,000 less the last 2 signings 1,400,000 = 3,000,000 leaves only 1,200,000 to shed that’s not a huge amount to move maybe move Ryan or something like that and leaves only one slot in the above roster to fill, maybe with one of the farm guys? 
 

all I’m saying, is he could have been signed and could have fit with only a minor adjustment of the roster...

 

BT totally dropped the ball in this RW option.  
 

if you look at Mlt now with Toffoil and how good they are and look at VCR now vs last year, and how much of a drop in their scoring and also that their scoring rose after the Toffoil acquisition, he’s clearly a guy that can drive the offensive play for teams...which if I recall, was one of the argument for not getting him.

 

yet again another huge miss on BT’s part, though I do get it he’s still a bit snake bitten on the O’Neil signing...which I was totally against but everyone loved at the time...

[cross16]

The decision to sign Toffoli would have come down to do your want  Toffoli or Tanev. Outside of that they would have had to move significant salary to make it work and it would not have been easy. 
 

Fair if you would have preferred him over Tanev but to say it was easy to get both is not accurate. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

sorry, Levio 

 

And I was talking about this past FA season Toffoil @4,250,000 less current cap space = 1,600,000 less the last 2 signings 1,400,000 = 3,000,000 leaves only 1,200,000 to shed that’s not a huge amount to move maybe move Ryan or something like that and leaves only one slot in the above roster to fill, maybe with one of the farm guys? 
 

all I’m saying, is he could have been signed and could have fit with only a minor adjustment of the roster...

 

BT totally dropped the ball in this RW option.  
 

if you look at Mlt now with Toffoil and how good they are and look at VCR now vs last year, and how much of a drop in their scoring and also that their scoring rose after the Toffoil acquisition, he’s clearly a guy that can drive the offensive play for teams...which if I recall, was one of the argument for not getting him.

 

yet again another huge miss on BT’s part, though I do get it he’s still a bit snake bitten on the O’Neil signing...which I was totally against but everyone loved at the time...

You seem to assume that there was no attempt at all to sign Toffoli, no one outside the front office will know for sure what efforts were made to sign a lot of players (Toffoli, Hall, J.Anderson, etc) or why they chose elsewhere.. At 4.25M there would have been alot of people lamenting that decision and for sure not had the room for Tanev or Markstrom as its not guaranteed a contract like Ryans could be offloaded.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 and you never sign all of your targets. Theres alot of that contract yet to prove its worth.

 

You'll have to remind me what O'Neil signing you're talking about.

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, MP5029 said:

sorry, Levio 

 

And I was talking about this past FA season Toffoil @4,250,000 less current cap space = 1,600,000 less the last 2 signings 1,400,000 = 3,000,000 leaves only 1,200,000 to shed that’s not a huge amount to move maybe move Ryan or something like that and leaves only one slot in the above roster to fill, maybe with one of the farm guys? 
 

all I’m saying, is he could have been signed and could have fit with only a minor adjustment of the roster...

 

BT totally dropped the ball in this RW option.  
 

if you look at Mlt now with Toffoil and how good they are and look at VCR now vs last year, and how much of a drop in their scoring and also that their scoring rose after the Toffoil acquisition, he’s clearly a guy that can drive the offensive play for teams...which if I recall, was one of the argument for not getting him.

 

yet again another huge miss on BT’s part, though I do get it he’s still a bit snake bitten on the O’Neil signing...which I was totally against but everyone loved at the time...

 

I wasn't sure if it was some other player.

No, Toffoli was not an option after Markstrom and Tanev.

Sure, many teams go over the cap to sign UFA's.

Vegas did it to land AP, but gave up one of their better guys.

In other words, they moved a valuable player for nothing.

We would have to have traded Ras or Hanifin for a 3rd.

 

Or paid someone to take Ryan.

 

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

You seem to assume that there was no attempt at all to sign Toffoli, no one outside the front office will know for sure what efforts were made to sign a lot of players (Toffoli, Hall, J.Anderson, etc) or why they chose elsewhere.. At 4.25M there would have been alot of people lamenting that decision and for sure not had the room for Tanev or Markstrom as its not guaranteed a contract like Ryans could be offloaded.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 and you never sign all of your targets. Theres alot of that contract yet to prove its worth.

 

You'll have to remind me what O'Neil signing you're talking about.

 

I think it’s probably the Neal signing, which the Lucic contract is killing us. 
 

I agree with him about the signings. Some cap are still strapping us down. Neal, Brouwer and Stone. Before jt was also MayRay. But Brouwer and Stone make up for 2.666 on the cap, plus you have Lucic at 5+ on the 4th, Ryan 3+ on the 4th. That’s around 7 or 8million in dead cap.

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it’s probably the Neal signing, which the Lucic contract is killing us. 
 

I agree with him about the signings. Some cap are still strapping us down. Neal, Brouwer and Stone. Before jt was also MayRay. But Brouwer and Stone make up for 2.666 on the cap, plus you have Lucic at 5+ on the 4th, Ryan 3+ on the 4th. That’s around 7 or 8million in dead cap.

 

Almost every team has the equaivalent of Lucic on it.

Most teams can get some cap relief for placing them on the taxi squad.

The issue for us is coming years.

This year, we would have to get rid of Lucic or Ryan+ just to sign Toffoli for a comp salary as he signed in MTL.

Next year is the bigger problem with Dube and Valimaki coming off ELC's and Bennett's next deal.

Year 3 is Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Gio replacement.

 

Short term it could have been done.

Long term, we would have to have chosen between Tanev and Toffoli or Markstrom and Toffoli.

Even with that, we have challenges with Tkachuk's nest deal.

It starts at $9m just to meet the RFA qualifying offer

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Almost every team has the equaivalent of Lucic on it.

Most teams can get some cap relief for placing them on the taxi squad.

The issue for us is coming years.

This year, we would have to get rid of Lucic or Ryan+ just to sign Toffoli for a comp salary as he signed in MTL.

Next year is the bigger problem with Dube and Valimaki coming off ELC's and Bennett's next deal.

Year 3 is Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Gio replacement.

 

Short term it could have been done.

Long term, we would have to have chosen between Tanev and Toffoli or Markstrom and Toffoli.

Even with that, we have challenges with Tkachuk's nest deal.

It starts at $9m just to meet the RFA qualifying offer

 

I still don’t think it makes it right! 
 

how many here said they liked the Neal deal, or the Brouwer? There’s just a few of these he’s signed, like Mason Raymond who luckily his buyout didn’t hurt. 
 

to say because it’s normal doesn’t make me feel better that they do it and it’s nearly every other UFA year signing. 

[Radster]

We lost paul byron to keep ol mayray so it did hurt us. 

[MP5029]

16 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wasn't sure if it was some other player.

No, Toffoli was not an option after Markstrom and Tanev.

Sure, many teams go over the cap to sign UFA's.

Vegas did it to land AP, but gave up one of their better guys.

In other words, they moved a valuable player for nothing.

We would have to have traded Ras or Hanifin for a 3rd.

 

Or paid someone to take Ryan.

 

so what would be so bad with paying someone to take Ryan so as to have a top 6 RW like Toffoil? 

[Thebrewcrew]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

so what would be so bad with paying someone to take Ryan so as to have a top 6 RW like Toffoil? 

What if Toffoli didn’t want to come here? All the GM can do is make his best pitch, can’t force a player to play here. I have no doubts they inquired on him though.

 

Probably wasn’t worth surrendering a top 60 pick just to move Ryan

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

so what would be so bad with paying someone to take Ryan so as to have a top 6 RW like Toffoil? 

 

What is a deal you consider worth it to be able to sign Toffoli?

Ryan + 2nd for future considerations like the Staal trade from NY?

Maybe Ryan + Dube for a 3rd.

What do you do in year two and three of Toffoli's deal with other re-signings needed?

In another post I suggested that it came down to Toffoli and one of Markstom or Tanev, not all three.

[cross16]

13 hours ago, Radster said:

We lost paul byron to keep ol mayray so it did hurt us. 

they lost Byron (which is not at all a big deal and people should let it go) because they couldn’t decide on goalies and instead chose to carry 3 rather than risk losing Ortio on waivers. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

What if Toffoli didn’t want to come here? All the GM can do is make his best pitch, can’t force a player to play here. I have no doubts they inquired on him though.

 

Probably wasn’t worth surrendering a top 60 pick just to move Ryan

I mean, this GM isn’t shy about spending cap and picks for needless reasons, cough cough, Gus and Forbs! Cough cough. If that was what it took to sign a scoring top 6 winger he should be on it. It’s basically a similar trade we’ve done it the past, but we’d have a top 6 winger for longer than we’d have Ryan and possible that 3rd rounder... 

 

but we are stuck with a boatload of contracts in the bottom 6. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

they lost Byron (which is not at all a big deal and people should let it go) because they couldn’t decide on goalies and instead chose to carry 3 rather than risk losing Ortio on waivers. 

 

Byron, Ryan... I see them as similar players. Losing Byron only hurt in probably the first season in Montreal, after that he’s been an afterthought. He might be decent depth in the bottom 6, and you’d hope cheap. 

[Thebrewcrew]

45 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I mean, this GM isn’t shy about spending cap and picks for needless reasons, cough cough, Gus and Forbs! Cough cough. If that was what it took to sign a scoring top 6 winger he should be on it. It’s basically a similar trade we’ve done it the past, but we’d have a top 6 winger for longer than we’d have Ryan and possible that 3rd rounder... 

 

but we are stuck with a boatload of contracts in the bottom 6. 

Even if the Flames moved Ryan, there’s no guarantee Toffoli would have signed here. He chose MTL because that was his childhood team. Chances are it would have cost more for the Flames to land him. Toffoli won’t be worth his contract by the end of it. Players with heavy feet don’t age well, James Neal
 

In that case you spent a pick to offload Ryan and end up with nothing to show for it. 

[JTech780]

An interesting article about how Gaudreau's resurgence this year can be tied to his play with his weak side defensemen.

[travel_dude]

That pass was sublime.  I noticed Ward played Valimaki in OT.

If Nesterov was more stabile, I wouldn't mind seeing Valimaki out there more with the Gaudreau line.

 

I may be one of the few that would like to see new pairings on D.

I don't know which has more merit, but Hanifin seems to be fine this year.

Gio and Ras are struggling the most right now.

Valimaki is weighed down a bit by questionable reads by Nesterov.

 

Gio-Tanev

Hanifin-Ras

Valimaki-Nesterov/Mackey/Kylington

 

You could go in a slightly different direction, balancing the minutes fairly evenly.

Hanifin-Ras

Valimaki-Tanev

Gio-Nesterov

 

You would need to suggest Nesterov or Gio not to wheel unless there was sufficient back coverage by the C.

The optics aren't that great, but you apply minutes according to special teams and who is working.

Just an opinion; don't know if it's right.

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

An interesting article about how Gaudreau's resurgence this year can be tied to his play with his weak side defensemen.

 

How Ward involves the dmen in the offence is one of my favorite things about him as a coach. I've got question in other areas and it does lead to some communication breakdowns, but he's done a really nice job of encouraging dmen to get in the play and really rush as more of a 5 man unit. 

 

That was really on display last night. If that's he game the Flames are shooting for i'm excited. 

 

He's had some ups and downs but you are really starting to see why many are so high on Valimaki. I really believe that guy is going to be an all star one day. 

 

 

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

That pass was sublime.  I noticed Ward played Valimaki in OT.

If Nesterov was more stabile, I wouldn't mind seeing Valimaki out there more with the Gaudreau line.

 

I may be one of the few that would like to see new pairings on D.

I don't know which has more merit, but Hanifin seems to be fine this year.

Gio and Ras are struggling the most right now.

Valimaki is weighed down a bit by questionable reads by Nesterov.

 

Gio-Tanev

Hanifin-Ras

Valimaki-Nesterov/Mackey/Kylington

 

You could go in a slightly different direction, balancing the minutes fairly evenly.

Hanifin-Ras

Valimaki-Tanev

Gio-Nesterov

 

You would need to suggest Nesterov or Gio not to wheel unless there was sufficient back coverage by the C.

The optics aren't that great, but you apply minutes according to special teams and who is working.

Just an opinion; don't know if it's right.

 

Personally I wouldn't touch the Hanifin-Tanev pairing, they might be the best pairing in hockey to start the season.

 

I would look at these combos:

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Andersson

Giordano-Nesterov

 

I would play them all pretty evenly 5v5.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

Personally I wouldn't touch the Hanifin-Tanev pairing, they might be the best pairing in hockey to start the season.

 

I would look at these combos:

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Andersson

Giordano-Nesterov

 

I would play them all pretty evenly 5v5.

 

 

This is the correct configuration.

Love.

[JTech780]

With the 2nd game of a back to back tonight, I wonder if we will see Simon draw in for Nordstrom and if Kylington will make his season debut for Nesterov.

[pikey7883]

58 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Personally I wouldn't touch the Hanifin-Tanev pairing, they might be the best pairing in hockey to start the season.

 

I would look at these combos:

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Andersson

Giordano-Nesterov

 

I would play them all pretty evenly 5v5.

 

 

14 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

With the 2nd game of a back to back tonight, I wonder if we will see Simon draw in for Nordstrom and if Kylington will make his season debut for Nesterov.

It would be a good game to try the above posted and swap nesterov with kylington.

Hannifin - Tanev

Valimaki - Andersson 

Giordano - Kylington (similar game to Brodie)

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Personally I wouldn't touch the Hanifin-Tanev pairing, they might be the best pairing in hockey to start the season.

 

I would look at these combos:

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Valimaki-Andersson

Giordano-Nesterov

 

I would play them all pretty evenly 5v5.

 

That’s the D pairing I’d like to see too:

 

Valimaki/Anderson (the next great pairing) 

Hanifin/Tanev 

Giordano/Nesterov 

 

I think you would see a marked improvement all round with this, but there will be a few growing pains as Valimaki gets better but I think Anderson will help him get to star power much better and faster than sheltering/chaining him to Nesterov 

[Radster]

Gio looking really bad again to start the year. Not sure what happened after he won the norris but hes been pretty much crap since. He is still our captain but don't thibk he belongs on the top pairing.