Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[tmac70]

5 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I'm still in the "not sold on Ward but not sold on replacing him either" camp..

We have to recognize last night was an abberation..

Rittich had an uncharacteristic bad game 

Everybody was off 

 

There were 2 major turning points to me .  1st, we were down 2-0 in less than 2 min

2nd , Talbot getting ejected when we were showing signs of fightn and comeback led by him . Even he said he never thought that was a possibility, just expected a major 

Not sure what Ward could have done differently behind the bench to change any of that

 

For the most part ..our team typically starts fast, has a decent powerplay and even in losses keeps games close 

We ARE realistically still not only in the thick of a playoff hunt but also for first place.

You want to bring in a Gallant or a Laviolette, fine, those are long term solutions, but right now Ward is as much responsible for where we are as he is responsible for the shortfalls .

I don't feel coaching is our issue right now

The common thread here is the players. So Ward is the 4th coach with after last night you can see he is absolutely perplexed. Our GM has put on the ice a bunch of non competitive pussies that can never rise to a challenge if its difficult, that's a documented fact. Everyone one of the coaches has had the same iss.  We all come from different generations but call a spade a spade this club is soft mentally and physically and has the  ZERO competitive drive or if a player did have it, it seems to get sucked out them quickly. There is a scouting, drafting and culture problem with this organization, problem is nobody has the balls to address it. 

[LouCifer]

4 hours ago, tmac70 said:

The common thread here is the players. So Ward is the 4th coach with after last night you can see he is absolutely perplexed. Our GM has put on the ice a bunch of non competitive pussies that can never rise to a challenge if its difficult, that's a documented fact. Everyone one of the coaches has had the same iss.  We all come from different generations but call a spade a spade this club is soft mentally and physically and has the  ZERO competitive drive or if a player did have it, it seems to get sucked out them quickly. There is a scouting, drafting and culture problem with this organization, problem is nobody has the balls to address it. 

Well said tmac. Well said indeed. 

[rickross]

On 2/2/2020 at 3:00 PM, tmac70 said:

The common thread here is the players. So Ward is the 4th coach with after last night you can see he is absolutely perplexed. Our GM has put on the ice a bunch of non competitive pussies that can never rise to a challenge if its difficult, that's a documented fact. Everyone one of the coaches has had the same iss.  We all come from different generations but call a spade a spade this club is soft mentally and physically and has the  ZERO competitive drive or if a player did have it, it seems to get sucked out them quickly. There is a scouting, drafting and culture problem with this organization, problem is nobody has the balls to address it. 

I think they’re trying to address the lack of compete, it’s why they’ve targeted guys like Mangi and more recently Jakob Pelletier. It’s much too late to now start recognizing compete level as an asset if that’s the case with the Flames. Flames are charming soft, Lucic was suppose to fix that but it appears he might be 3x ply charmin soft. I don’t blame Ward here, but I don’t believe he’ll be able to take this team to where it needs to be. They can’t handle hard coaches Hartley, Peters and they can’t respond to soft ones like Gulutzan. Ward is that middle ground coach and it doesn’t seem to be working either. 

[LouCifer]

You know what, I don’t normally praise Toronto but I absolutely love what Sheldon Keefe did to Kapanen. That’s what’s missing here. Want to get rid of the “country club”? Bring in a coach with the metal to sit players out for poor conduct and poor play. Kapanen was apparently late for practice, and you can bet this wasn’t the first time, so he sat him. THEN, he made Kapanen explain to the media why he was scratched! Brilliant. 
 

Now, did Kapanen show remorse for it? Yes and no. He agreed with the scratch, but then said he simply slept in and wants to move past it. To me, his body language seemed to show different than the words coming out of his mouth. And while the lesson may not have been fully absorbed by Kapanen, chances are the message was received by the rest of the team. 
 

That is how you grow culture. That is how you create expectation. Bring in a coach that will do that. I can think of 2 that are available. 

[cross16]

The longer Ward is the coach the less impressed I have become. I'm for sure in the camp that you can't lay everything at his feet and this is majority a player problem but at the same time it's also fair to look at Ward and say he isn't doing a very good job. Both are very possible and IMO are correct. 

 

Between how big of a mess they are defensively and some of the really perplexing decision he makes he sure looks to me like a coach that is in over his head. He's really just making stuff up as he goes and trying it out rather than having a plan. I'm sure he is a good coach in many attributes but to me he's not looking like a head coach. 

 

See if he can correct it here but the trends are not positive. 

 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

The longer Ward is the coach the less impressed I have become. I'm for sure in the camp that you can't lay everything at his feet and this is majority a player problem but at the same time it's also fair to look at Ward and say he isn't doing a very good job. Both are very possible and IMO are correct. 

 

Between how big of a mess they are defensively and some of the really perplexing decision he makes he sure looks to me like a coach that is in over his head. He's really just making stuff up as he goes and trying it out rather than having a plan. I'm sure he is a good coach in many attributes but to me he's not looking like a head coach. 

 

See if he can correct it here but the trends are not positive. 

 

 

 

 

I think the coaching has been off all year. 

I get giving Lucic playing time, as he was one of the only guys trying for most of the year. But rewarding it by giving him undying love on the PP is where I see part of the mistakes. Those little coaching decisions, I think, kill the room and the motivation. We see players are not motivated. It's the players, but I also think it's the coaching. 

 

Earned never given, and they played. 

Given never earned, they stopped playing. And they've been doing both of these off and on. I get that coaches have to go with guys they trust, but when those guys aren't going and they keep going with them, it's detrimental.

[travel_dude]

I'm in the camp of replace the coach.

Now would be a better time than in the summer but difficult to do.

His coaching record isn;t bad, but most of that is in spite of his decisions and matchups.

[Horsman1]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I'm in the camp of replace the coach.

Now would be a better time than in the summer but difficult to do.

His coaching record isn;t bad, but most of that is in spite of his decisions and matchups.

i'm in the camp of start next year with a new coach.. a new g.m. and get rid of Monahan/gaudreau and brodie/jankowski/ backlund/ and hanafin

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

i'm in the camp of start next year with a new coach.. a new g.m. and get rid of Monahan/gaudreau and brodie/jankowski/ backlund/ and hanafin

 

 

 

Harsh.

 

Sounds like a coach's nightmare.

New GM wanting to make a mark.

New breed coach with skinny jeans and Dubas glasses.

Ottawa results upcoming.

 

My feelings about a new coach is that by waiting till the summer the good ones will be gone and the newly fired ones will be available.

Laviolette preaches defense, but he had studs in Nashville.

I doubt he lasts on the sidelines.

Same with Gallant.

Either of those would be a step up.

 

[Horsman1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Harsh.

 

Sounds like a coach's nightmare.

New GM wanting to make a mark.

New breed coach with skinny jeans and Dubas glasses.

Ottawa results upcoming.

 

My feelings about a new coach is that by waiting till the summer the good ones will be gone and the newly fired ones will be available.

Laviolette preaches defense, but he had studs in Nashville.

I doubt he lasts on the sidelines.

Same with Gallant.

Either of those would be a step up.

 

yes.. I like Gallant.. .. alot!! a professional coach who's played in the NHL not some skinny jeans/ Dubas Glassed upstart who has zero nhl experience but 3 thousand theories.. how's Hakan loob for Gm and Tim Hunter for coach sound??

 

[LouCifer]

That’s where I’m at TD. Why wait until summer to make a coaching change? To allow other teams an opportunity to compete for their services? To start next season off slowly, while “learning new systems”? Start now! What are we trying to save or preserve from this season?!?
 

1. Bring in a new coach

Laviolette and Gallant are available and there’s not much else out there for them. If we wait until summer, they may have more choice of destination. 
 

2. Make some personnel changes at the TDL. Cut dead weight. If there’s internal knowledge that Brodie and/or Hamonic won’t re-sign here, put them on the block. I’d prefer to have Brodie return. Hamonic, he’s a warrior and I love his character, but something just isn’t working well here. See what you can get for him. If the Sharks are willing to trade Dillon to us, look into it. Explore acquiring Josh Anderson and Tiffoli - 2 RW players. Even though they’re RFA/UFA, get a leg up on re-signing them if they’re a fit. 

[cross16]

If the Flames choose to ride Ward for the rest of the year it sure is going to add a lot of fuel to the speculation that either they don't want to pay top end $ for a coach, or that those coaches don't want to be here. The Flames were careful to not say Ward was their guy for the rest of the year and the results sure don't suggest he is. Looking at that and then looking at 2 coaches on the market with pedigree is not going to be a positive look for the Flames if they don't land either one of them. 

 

May be no truth to any of that but there is going to be a ton of smoke around it. 

[JTech780]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

If the Flames choose to ride Ward for the rest of the year it sure is going to add a lot of fuel to the speculation that either they don't want to pay top end $ for a coach, or that those coaches don't want to be here. The Flames were careful to not say Ward was their guy for the rest of the year and the results sure don't suggest he is. Looking at that and then looking at 2 coaches on the market with pedigree is not going to be a positive look for the Flames if they don't land either one of them. 

 

May be no truth to any of that but there is going to be a ton of smoke around it. 

 

Gallant has come out and said that he is in no rush to make a decision, and will wait till the offseason.

 

It's hard to blame to veteran coaches like Laviolette and Gallant for waiting to see what all of their options are in the offseason before making a decision. Both of them will be in high demand in the offseason, which probably doesn't bode well for Calgary.

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Gallant has come out and said that he is in no rush to make a decision, and will wait till the offseason.

 

It's hard to blame to veteran coaches like Laviolette and Gallant for waiting to see what all of their options are in the offseason before making a decision. Both of them will be in high demand in the offseason, which probably doesn't bode well for Calgary.

 

I agree it does not bode well for the Flames because it sends the message their job is not attractive enough. I get wanting to see all options but if the Flames job was attractive and the money was right do we really think they would wait? Maybe 1 but both?

 

Maybe they just want the break but IMO it just fuels the belief that the Flames are going to have a hard time landing a coach with a high pedigree. 

[JTech780]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree it does not bode well for the Flames because it sends the message their job is not attractive enough. I get wanting to see all options but if the Flames job was attractive and the money was right do we really think they would wait? Maybe 1 but both?

 

Maybe they just want the break but IMO it just fuels the belief that the Flames are going to have a hard time landing a coach with a high pedigree. 

 

I mean when was the last time Calgary landed an elite coach in their prime? Darryl Sutter, maybe? Keenan and Hartley were already on their last chances when they came here. Brent Sutter and Bill Peters were highly thought of but hadn't proven a lot in the NHL.

 

I just wonder if the rumours of ownership being so hands on, scares coaches away. Guys like Gallant and Laviolette strike me as guys who want to be left to run things their way, with as little meddling from above as possible.

[cross16]

9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I mean when was the last time Calgary landed an elite coach in their prime? Darryl Sutter, maybe? Keenan and Hartley were already on their last chances when they came here. Brent Sutter and Bill Peters were highly thought of but hadn't proven a lot in the NHL.

 

I just wonder if the rumours of ownership being so hands on, scares coaches away. Guys like Gallant and Laviolette strike me as guys who want to be left to run things their way, with as little meddling from above as possible.

 

Really never when you look back on their history. Their "success" with the Sutters is the closest and even that I don't take at face value as they were all coming home. Flames had a rare edge there so the way i look at it they've never been able to attract an elite coach. Their success stories are more taking chances on other with pedigree, Badger for example. 

 

I think a lot goes into it but ownership would be 1 I would imagine. i think the performance of this core isn't encouraging for a coach nor is Ken King's happy trigger finger in the 2000s. Location and being in Canada play a big part too, as if you look at it until the Oilers landed McDavid they weren't exactly getting coaches with pedigree to join them either. 

 

There's always been rumors the Flames owners don't believe in paying high end dollars for coaches but i'm not sure that's true. Peters was making a relatively good salary from what I understand as was Sutter. I think it's more likely that coaches just don't see this as a high end destination. So as much as i'd I would love a Gallant, and be happy with Laviolette, I don't consider it likely. 

[JTech780]

Ward showed again he is in over his head. Reider is a fine player, but he shouldn't be playing on the top line or playing in the last two minutes of a 1 goal game with the net empty.

 

This team is in real trouble.

 

I wonder if Darryl Sutter would come back to finish the season. He and ownership have a pretty good relationship if I remember correctly. 

 

This team just needs some strong leadership and it has to start with the coach.

[phoenix66]

10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Ward showed again he is in over his head. Reider is a fine player, but he shouldn't be playing on the top line or playing in the last two minutes of a 1 goal game with the net empty.

 

This team is in real trouble.

 

I wonder if Darryl Sutter would come back to finish the season. He and ownership have a pretty good relationship if I remember correctly. 

 

This team just needs some strong leadership and it has to start with the coach.

I actually want to see more of that.

Reider is great defensively so I get the empty net situation.

But Ward has preached anger over frustration for a while now 

Last night Bennett needed more minutes , Johnny needed to be pinned to the bench .

Start shortening the bench based on game play regardless of the name on the Jersey

2 games in a row now Lucic was one of the best players based in their roles and effort ..he was hitting. He was digging..  good on him but that should be embarrassing to the supposed top players 

I'd pull out the nuclear bomb and put Johnny in the press box for a game..get his blood boiling 

I'd give Tkachuk his center back in Backlund and make them the top line in the same game to take Monnys minutes away 

 

Overall Ward needs to break the assistant coach best friend mode and be the head coach bad guy to get that next level 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I actually want to see more of that.

Reider is great defensively so I get the empty net situation.

 

 

Your down a goal. There is no way,  NO WAY, how good your are defensively should factor into that decision. It is indefensible to put someone with 6 goals in their last 120 games on the ice down a goal with the net empty. 

 

I will give him this the thought, the players are doing him no favors. I don't beleive effort stems from a coach and right now the Flames effort level and compete is way below where it needs to be. I don't think Ward is doing a good job but players deserve most of the blame here. 

 

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

Your down a goal. There is no way,  NO WAY, how good your are defensively should factor into that decision. It is indefensible to put someone with 6 goals in their last 120 games on the ice down a goal with the net empty. 

 

I will give him this the thought, the players are doing him no favors. I don't beleive effort stems from a coach and right now the Flames effort level and compete is way below where it needs to be. I don't think Ward is doing a good job but players deserve most of the blame here. 

 

I get what you're saying, but even when you're pressing for a goal, you still need to keep them from scoring into your empty net.. a guy like Reider opens up the offensive guys to play looser and not care about the D 

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I get what you're saying, but even when you're pressing for a goal, you still need to keep them from scoring into your empty net.. a guy like Reider opens up the offensive guys to play looser and not care about the D 

 

 

Ya sorry i think this logic is crazy. I don't care about being scored against because i'm already in a losing situation and that won't change anything. All that should matter is pressing to get that next goal. Reider IMO does nothing to help you in that situation. 

 

it was let's throw crap at a wall and see what sticks strategy. that's not exactly wrong in hockey but it's starting to become a pattern under Ward. 

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Ya sorry i think this logic is crazy. I don't care about being scored against because i'm already in a losing situation and that won't change anything. All that should matter is pressing to get that next goal. Reider IMO does nothing to help you in that situation. 

 

it was let's throw crap at a wall and see what sticks strategy. that's not exactly wrong in hockey but it's starting to become a pattern under Ward. 

 

One thing I noticed a lot recently.

The line that scores a goal gets the next shift after the goal.

Not in this case, but a lot of time we get scored on right after.

In this case, the D pair on for the goal for were on for the goal against.

 

I would let that slide, but I haven;t seen any smart line decisions in weeks.

Backlund with the top line?

Maybe Buddy brings it for some of the game, but I would rather see him bring it to the 3rd or 4th line.

 

[robrob74]

Well, coach ward gets credit for wins where the team doesn’t deserve to win and gets credit for losses. I dunno, sure the players aren’t working hard, but neither are the line combos

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Well, coach ward gets credit for wins where the team doesn’t deserve to win and gets credit for losses. I dunno, sure the players aren’t working hard, but neither are the line combos

 

I give him credit for taking a bad situation (BP) and getting the players to try to focus on the games.

Maybe the "teacher" approach doesn;t work for some players.

The lines are one problem.

The strategies used seem like they won;t work.

 

Just one game, I would like to see a top line given a top RW.

Play them 20 minutes.

Give the 2nd line the next best C.

Keep the line together for the entire game.

Let them work it out.

Ain't gonna happen.

 

The GM uses fancy stats, but it seems the coach ignores these.

Maybe they don;t mean anything to him and he makes choices based on practice. 

[The_People1]

Honestly speaking, how important is it for us to lose the next 3 games?