2019-20 ROSTER PLANNING

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Do we think Zac Rinaldo has effectively replaced Sam Bennett?

 

I don’t like the idea that we only need one or two guys like that. Maybe in the new NHL it is a thing. 
 

id love to trade Bennett so he can get a fresh start. 

[The_People1]

11 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I wouldnt say he's any worse, his skill set may be more limited but the energy and the fact he finishes checks as opposed to peeling off like most of the rest do is noticeable.  Bennett for the most part will probably stay on the 4th line so I dont think the team is any worse or better with either.

 

Well, for the price of one Sam Bennett, we can buy three Zac Rinaldos... so there's that.

 

Bennett has been very good since the All Star break and it seems we're coming to the point in the season where he begins to take it up a notch.  If we make it to the playoffs, then he will play a key role.  That said, Rinaldo is playing that energy/gritty role just as good.  If we want someone to go out there to hit and create energy, then why spend so much on Bennett?  Save $2-mil and spend it somewhere else.

 

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t like the idea that we only need one or two guys like that. Maybe in the new NHL it is a thing. 
 

id love to trade Bennett so he can get a fresh start. 

 

Fair.  Sometimes i wish Derek Ryan was 6'-4" 225 lbs and hits.  But where we seem to have smarts, we have zero size.  Where we have some size, we have zero smarts.

[travel_dude]

32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Do we think Zac Rinaldo has effectively replaced Sam Bennett?

 

Rieder almost has, but I would say Zac is more of a part-time Hathaway type.

Bennett isn;t doing himself any favors.

A good game usually doesn;t include any points.

We have become satisfied with that, somehow believing that when the playoffs come, he will be the guy.

 

I love about half of Bennett's game.

The part that runs over players and fights.

The other part is an exercize in frustration.

Give him the puck and watch the chance end.

 

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I love about half of Bennett's game.

The part that runs over players and fights.

The other part is an exercize in frustration.

Give him the puck and watch the chance end.

 

Like the goal Rinaldo scored last game, one-timed redirect towards the net.  Bennett would've absorbed the past, slid a few feet with a toe drag, and then fake a pass before taking the shot after the opportunity to score has clearly passed. 

[cross16]

Rinaldo, by just about every measure, is the Flames worst player at 5 on 5 and right now his shooting % is almost 3 times higher than his career norm. 

 

No, he has not replaced Sam Bennett he's just been very lucky. I fully expect the Flames to trade Bennett but if the plan is to "replace" him with Reider or Rinaldo, they are crazy

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Rinaldo, by just about every measure, is the Flames worst player at 5 on 5 and right now his shooting % is almost 3 times higher than his career norm. 

 

No, he has not replaced Sam Bennett he's just been very lucky. I fully expect the Flames to trade Bennett but if the plan is to "replace" him with Reider or Rinaldo, they are crazy

 

I also wonder if Bennett is a late bloomer. 
 

it took the Sedins 3 Or 4 full seasons of 30+ points before they hit the 70point plateau. 
 

That seemed to be the trajectory of all of the prospects until only the last 5 years or so! Guys didn’t tear it up as early as they do now. But I dunno if they showed more signs than what Bennett had? He looked closer to that a few years ago, but has declined. 
 

I think he plays too much in his own head and the skill has taken over. 

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I also wonder if Bennett is a late bloomer. 
 

it took the Sedins 3 Or 4 full seasons of 30+ points before they hit the 70point plateau. 
 

That seemed to be the trajectory of all of the prospects until only the last 5 years or so! Guys didn’t tear it up as early as they do now. But I dunno if they showed more signs than what Bennett had? He looked closer to that a few years ago, but has declined. 
 

I think he plays too much in his own head and the skill has taken over. 

 

There's a case to be made for it. Personally i'm not sure he is but I also think he's still a very useful middle 6 player (and could be a good shutdown center if the Flames wanted to go that route) so I don't think they should trade him. But also willing to admit they may not have a choice. 

 

At 5 on 5/60 mins here is where Bennett ranks over the last 3 years

 

8th in Shots/60

2nd in IXg/60

6th in ICorsiF/60

1st in ISCF/60

3rd in IHCF%60

8th in Rush attempts60

2nd in Rebounds created/60 (only to Jagr)

10th in Takeaways

6th in Penalties drawn.

 

Now of course you have to mention the bad. He's their worst offender for Penalties taken and has a negative penalty differential. I'm a big Bennett supporter but this is obviously a major detraction for some people and clearly has been for the coaches too. 

 

What this shows, is that Bennett is actually a very valuable player at 5 on 5 that cannot finish. So the argument is there to say if Bennett could show some of the finish he had in junior he could for sure be a late bloomer candidate. I would not say he has declined either, he had a bad start to this year for sure but he's been one of the better Flames consistently for the last several months but again doesn't have the counting stats to show for it. 

 

I'm biased as i've said in the past i'm going down with the ship on Sam Bennett as I absolutely believe he could still carve out a top 6 role with an organization that believes in him and gives him a chance. The numbers support that it's there but I do fear that the ship has already sailed here in Calgary. 

 

[cross16]

Confirmed Yelesin will make his debut tonight. 

 

 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

There's a case to be made for it. Personally i'm not sure he is but I also think he's still a very useful middle 6 player (and could be a good shutdown center if the Flames wanted to go that route) so I don't think they should trade him. But also willing to admit they may not have a choice. 

 

At 5 on 5/60 mins here is where Bennett ranks over the last 3 years

 

8th in Shots/60

2nd in IXg/60

6th in ICorsiF/60

1st in ISCF/60

3rd in IHCF%60

8th in Rush attempts60

2nd in Rebounds created/60 (only to Jagr)

10th in Takeaways

6th in Penalties drawn.

 

Now of course you have to mention the bad. He's their worst offender for Penalties taken and has a negative penalty differential. I'm a big Bennett supporter but this is obviously a major detraction for some people and clearly has been for the coaches too. 

 

What this shows, is that Bennett is actually a very valuable player at 5 on 5 that cannot finish. So the argument is there to say if Bennett could show some of the finish he had in junior he could for sure be a late bloomer candidate. I would not say he has declined either, he had a bad start to this year for sure but he's been one of the better Flames consistently for the last several months but again doesn't have the counting stats to show for it. 

 

I'm biased as i've said in the past i'm going down with the ship on Sam Bennett as I absolutely believe he could still carve out a top 6 role with an organization that believes in him and gives him a chance. The numbers support that it's there but I do fear that the ship has already sailed here in Calgary. 

 

 

I have a feeling the ship has sailed as well. For all of the good he does, the coaches can’t keep putting him out if he can’t finish his chances or breaking into the zone.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

There's a case to be made for it. Personally i'm not sure he is but I also think he's still a very useful middle 6 player (and could be a good shutdown center if the Flames wanted to go that route) so I don't think they should trade him. But also willing to admit they may not have a choice. 

 

At 5 on 5/60 mins here is where Bennett ranks over the last 3 years

 

8th in Shots/60

2nd in IXg/60

6th in ICorsiF/60

1st in ISCF/60

3rd in IHCF%60

8th in Rush attempts60

2nd in Rebounds created/60 (only to Jagr)

10th in Takeaways

6th in Penalties drawn.

 

Now of course you have to mention the bad. He's their worst offender for Penalties taken and has a negative penalty differential. I'm a big Bennett supporter but this is obviously a major detraction for some people and clearly has been for the coaches too. 

 

What this shows, is that Bennett is actually a very valuable player at 5 on 5 that cannot finish. So the argument is there to say if Bennett could show some of the finish he had in junior he could for sure be a late bloomer candidate. I would not say he has declined either, he had a bad start to this year for sure but he's been one of the better Flames consistently for the last several months but again doesn't have the counting stats to show for it. 

 

I'm biased as i've said in the past i'm going down with the ship on Sam Bennett as I absolutely believe he could still carve out a top 6 role with an organization that believes in him and gives him a chance. The numbers support that it's there but I do fear that the ship has already sailed here in Calgary. 

 

 

 

Doug Gilmour when he was drafted.

Logan Couture when I saw him play for the first time.

Mike Fisher/Nick Foligno a year ago.

Zac Rinaldo this week.

 

Rico Fata in 3 years.

[JTech780]

I too am a big Bennett supporter, I think where Bennett struggles is that he wants so bad to be the player he was in junior that when he gets chances he tries too hard.

 

If Bennett could keep his game simple, go hard to the net, forecheck hard, play straight line north/south game he would be the perfect fit with Gaudreau and Monahan, and the production would come. When he gets his chances there, which are few and far between with a short leash, he changes his game to try and be more like Gaudreau and Monahan, which isn't what that line needs.

[cross16]

18 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I too am a big Bennett supporter, I think where Bennett struggles is that he wants so bad to be the player he was in junior that when he gets chances he tries too hard.

 

If Bennett could keep his game simple, go hard to the net, forecheck hard, play straight line north/south game he would be the perfect fit with Gaudreau and Monahan, and the production would come. When he gets his chances there, which are few and far between with a short leash, he changes his game to try and be more like Gaudreau and Monahan, which isn't what that line needs.

 

I would agree, but add that I think the Flames have made his worse by never committing to a role for Bennett. It was the same problem for a while with Ferland until they finally said here is your role, go play with Johnny/Mony and we won't move you.

 

The Flames have never felt comfortable doing that for a long period of time and seemingly just let him fall to the 4th line because they don't really know what else to do with him so for me it's not really a surprise Bennett hasn't found his game. It's really too bad the Flames didn't trade him years ago and they've let the asset depreciate and now seem motivated to sell him for pennies on the dollar. 

[robrob74]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I would agree, but add that I think the Flames have made his worse by never committing to a role for Bennett. It was the same problem for a while with Ferland until they finally said here is your role, go play with Johnny/Mony and we won't move you.

 

The Flames have never felt comfortable doing that for a long period of time and seemingly just let him fall to the 4th line because they don't really know what else to do with him so for me it's not really a surprise Bennett hasn't found his game. It's really too bad the Flames didn't trade him years ago and they've let the asset depreciate and now seem motivated to sell him for pennies on the dollar. 

 

I hope you don’t think I am mad at your post, more that I agree with it and have been frustrated with the situation. 
 

I think the team has to grow their scouting. Their international scouting needs to be improved I think. We got Andersson, but imagine if they took Pastranak instead or someone like that? I still live Bennett though.

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I hope you don’t think I am mad at your post, more that I agree with it and have been frustrated with the situation. 
 

I think the team has to grow their scouting. Their international scouting needs to be improved I think. We got Andersson, but imagine if they took Pastranak instead or someone like that? I still live Bennett though.

 

No, did not get that at all. Feel like were on the same page, as many are, that just frustration that Bennett didn't pan out. When you go through a rebuild and you get the 4th overall pick you expect to hit on it and the fact that the Flames didn't is a large contributor to them being more of a middle of the pack team than a true contender. Everyone should be frustrated. 

 

I'm not sure their scouting is the problem. I get your point on Pastrnak but I think there is some revisionist history there. Bennett was a consensus top prospect and if the Bruins had of picked 4th overall i'm pretty confident they would have taken Bennett there too. I point to it as more of a development issue than I do a scouting one and i thikn the Flames, while they have gotten better, still need work when it comes to how they develop players. 

[conundrumed]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No, did not get that at all. Feel like were on the same page, as many are, that just frustration that Bennett didn't pan out. When you go through a rebuild and you get the 4th overall pick you expect to hit on it and the fact that the Flames didn't is a large contributor to them being more of a middle of the pack team than a true contender. Everyone should be frustrated. 

 

I'm not sure their scouting is the problem. I get your point on Pastrnak but I think there is some revisionist history there. Bennett was a consensus top prospect and if the Bruins had of picked 4th overall i'm pretty confident they would have taken Bennett there too. I point to it as more of a development issue than I do a scouting one and i thikn the Flames, while they have gotten better, still need work when it comes to how they develop players. 

I'd add also, imo, the need to develop for both Monahan and Bennett was staggered by an awful roster. They made the big club because the big club sucked and the previous drafts were a disaster. So although I agree Bennett's dev should have been handled better, the Flames were lousy, so easy for him to make. Then it snowballed when they had no one of any substance for him to play with.

It's the same again, we have virtually nothing in the A. Bottom 6s, if that, at forward.

The future does not look good at forward.

[Heartbreaker]

For what it's worth, @robrob74, and @cross16, I have enjoyed your back and forth very much, and I too, would go down with the ship on Sam Bennett. 

 

I am infuriated with the way that his development has been handled. I believe that we will rue the day that we move him, and I am sincerely hoping that they don't, but also sincerely hoping that they set him up for success. 

 

Love. 

[JTech780]

To add to all this Sam Bennett talk, this is his 5th season in the NHL, he is on his 4th coach. It sure makes it hard to get your footing in the NHL when your organization has zero stability.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

Rinaldo, by just about every measure, is the Flames worst player at 5 on 5 and right now his shooting % is almost 3 times higher than his career norm. 

 

No, he has not replaced Sam Bennett he's just been very lucky. I fully expect the Flames to trade Bennett but if the plan is to "replace" him with Reider or Rinaldo, they are crazy

 

In case you thought I was saing Rinaldo was Bennett's replacement, I wasn't.

I'm actually not a big fan of him playing.

6 minutes a game is not what you want to have available.

He adds a few things to a game when he plays, but mostly doesn;t impact positively.

 

My frustration with Bennett is he looks exactly the same as he did last year.

Hasn't simplified his game.

Still takes bad penalties.

Tries things that have little chance to work.

Telegraphs every shot.

 

I'm beginning to think the only thing we could do with him is play at C.

Backlund hadn't exactly been a star playing with Tkachuk, but he has looked better there in the last two games.

Maybe, just maybe Bennett could fit in with Tkachuk and Mangiapane.

Certainly a better fit physically with Tkachuk.

Would he be able to pass or enter the zone like Backlund?

[JTech780]

Steve Pleau scouting Montreal and Boston.

 

I don't see a fit between Calgary and Boston. Montreal on the other hand has a few pieces that might work. Jeff Petry would make sense for Calgary, big RHS top 4 defenseman, signed for another year after this. Marco Scandella would sense as a depth defenseman, same with Christian Folin. Joel Armia is a big RHS RW with another year on his deal. 

 

The one guy that worries me as I just don't see a fit here in Calgary is Kovalchuk. I just don't see him as a fit with Gaudreau and Monahan and I don't see him as a fit with Tkachuk and Backlund. All of sudden we would have another James Neal situation where you have a guy sulking because he isn't playing in the top 6. I really hope we stay away from Kovalchuk.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Steve Pleau scouting Montreal and Boston.

 

I don't see a fit between Calgary and Boston. Montreal on the other hand has a few pieces that might work. Jeff Petry would make sense for Calgary, big RHS top 4 defenseman, signed for another year after this. Marco Scandella would sense as a depth defenseman, same with Christian Folin. Joel Armia is a big RHS RW with another year on his deal. 

 

The one guy that worries me as I just don't see a fit here in Calgary is Kovalchuk. I just don't see him as a fit with Gaudreau and Monahan and I don't see him as a fit with Tkachuk and Backlund. All of sudden we would have another James Neal situation where you have a guy sulking because he isn't playing in the top 6. I really hope we stay away from Kovalchuk.

 

Saw a piece from a BOS paper saying they saw a fit.

Mostly it sounded like they just wanted Bennett for scraps.

The suggestions were underwhelming.

 

MTL would be tough to deal with.

They seem to think every piece is worth a lot.

Petry or Army okay, but only if the price was right.

We had a chance with Kovi after he was bought out; no thanks to trading for him now.

I also fail to see the fit.

But I will admit, he has looked fast in MTL.

Then again, MTL always looks fast because they are so short. 

[JTech780]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Saw a piece from a BOS paper saying they saw a fit.

Mostly it sounded like they just wanted Bennett for scraps.

The suggestions were underwhelming.

 

MTL would be tough to deal with.

They seem to think every piece is worth a lot.

Petry or Army okay, but only if the price was right.

We had a chance with Kovi after he was bought out; no thanks to trading for him now.

I also fail to see the fit.

But I will admit, he has looked fast in MTL.

Then again, MTL always looks fast because they are so short. 

 

First off, crap I posted in the wrong thread.

 

Secondly, Kovalchuk looks great in Montreal because he is playing 20 mins a night in Montreal, which wouldn't happen here. 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

First off, crap I posted in the wrong thread.

 

Secondly, Kovalchuk looks great in Montreal because he is playing 20 mins a night in Montreal, which wouldn't happen here. 

 

Well these two threads merge a lot of ideas together.

If Kovi was bound for CGY it would have to be top 6, playing 18 per night.

Don;t think it would work though.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

To add to all this Sam Bennett talk, this is his 5th season in the NHL, he is on his 4th coach. It sure makes it hard to get your footing in the NHL when your organization has zero stability.

Add to this there are only 3 other forwards on this team from his rookie year and he has essentially been in a blender for line combos his entire career.

[89Again]

Its Amazing how poorly they have handled him and its amazing how positive everyone has been on Backlund.  There is pressure on Backlund now, so for the first time he is actually starting to work a bit but if they make the playoffs he will be invisible.  Trade Backlund while he still has value.  
 

 

[pikey7883]

I’ve see a couple RW trade targets and have suggested some of my own. But if we can land a Mantha or a Toffoli or Palmieri or (please God, lol) Gallagher. It gives us the second top 6 RW either behind or equivalent to Lindy. 

My question is to give Bennett a fighting chance. Could he center a line of Gaudreau and Lindy on a 2nd line with favourable zone starts. And have a top line of Tkachuk - Mony - afformentioned RW.

1. Is Bennett good enough to fill that role?

2. Do Mony and Chucky compliment each other? 

 

On a a side note for the playoffs that would give us a very formidable bottom 6. 

Young fast energy line of

Mang - Ryan - Dube and a very capable line of

Lucic - Backlund - Reider / Rinaldo