2019-20 ROSTER PLANNING

[JTech780]

I like the way the 3rd line is constructed, though I might put Bennett at center and Ryan at RW. Let's leave this line intact for 5-10 games and see what happens.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I like the way the 3rd line is constructed, though I might put Bennett at center and Ryan at RW. Let's leave this line intact for 5-10 games and see what happens.

 

Agreed it needs to stick.

I'm actually okay with the setup.

Ryan has the responsibility and the other two can freewheel a bit more.

This is probably the best of the bottom 6.

[cross16]

The bottom 6 is getting a lot of flak, and in part rightfully so, but at the same time i'm not sure what people expect either.

 

- Everything is brand new, no pair is the same

- No one makes it through a game together let alone multiple games

- So far this season almost all the games have turned into special team battles so the bottom 6 ends up sitting. you need some consistent 5 on 5 play to get bottom 6 going

- Key players missing camp which impacted depth

- Ryan is a key driver of the bottom 6 and he's a bit of a slow starter.

 

Need a bit more patience IMO. 

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

The bottom 6 is getting a lot of flak, and in part rightfully so, but at the same time i'm not sure what people expect either.

 

- Everything is brand new, no pair is the same

- No one makes it through a game together let alone multiple games

- So far this season almost all the games have turned into special team battles so the bottom 6 ends up sitting. you need some consistent 5 on 5 play to get bottom 6 going

- Key players missing camp which impacted depth

- Ryan is a key driver of the bottom 6 and he's a bit of a slow starter.

 

Need a bit more patience IMO. 

Memo to Bill Peters? Some people would argue that he brought 3 guys from his Carolina team and gave them the juiciest roles to succeed in.

Don't look now, but Carolina looks devastating since the 4 left.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Memo to Bill Peters? Some people would argue that he brought 3 guys from his Carolina team and gave them the juiciest roles to succeed in.

Don't look now, but Carolina looks devastating since the 4 left.

 

Added Nino.

Haula healthy.

Continued good starts for Aho and Tervainen.

Their 6th D is Gardiner. 

Hanifn is similar to Dougie in points, but Dougie way more deadly with goals. 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Memo to Bill Peters? Some people would argue that he brought 3 guys from his Carolina team and gave them the juiciest roles to succeed in.

Don't look now, but Carolina looks devastating since the 4 left.

guess we’ll see they were pretty equal teams last year. 
Not to take anything away from Brind’Amor who is clearly doing a nice job but they’ve got a pretty savvy management team there. Shocking to say after what a disaster Waddell was in Atlanta. 
probaably the deepest team in the league right now top to bottom. 
 

not really a shot at Peters. I don’t mind him still experimenting for now but got to find something soon I think. 

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

guess we’ll see they were pretty equal teams last year. 
Not to take anything away from Brind’Amor who is clearly doing a nice job but they’ve got a pretty savvy management team there. Shocking to say after what a disaster Waddell was in Atlanta. 
probaably the deepest team in the league right now top to bottom. 
 

not really a shot at Peters. I don’t mind him still experimenting for now but got to find something soon I think. 

 

I think the biggest difference for Carolina last year and this year is that are finally getting some goaltending, in Peters 4 years there he didn't have a single goalie who could make a save.

 

You show me a good coach and I will show you a team with a good goalie.

[JTech780]

Sounds like Lindholm will be alright after the slash last night.

 

If is going to miss a game, and Mangiapane is going to miss a game we might have to send Kylington down to make cap room to be able to call up a forward.

 

So hopefully both can go on Saturday, or at worst one will miss the next game and we can just slot Rieder into the lineup.

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Sounds like Lindholm will be alright after the slash last night.

 

If is going to miss a game, and Mangiapane is going to miss a game we might have to send Kylington down to make cap room to be able to call up a forward.

 

So hopefully both can go on Saturday, or at worst one will miss the next game and we can just slot Rieder into the lineup.

 

If we need to call anyone up, we can dip into the LTIR overage to call someone up.

I don't think that happens.

Sending down Kylington would be a mistake.

Waiving Stone and sending him down would be more appropriate.

[JTech780]

If Mangiapane is going to miss any time I would roll lines like this:

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik

Bennett-Ryan-Czarnik

Lucic-Jankowski-Rieder

 

I think the lines will look this though:

 

Top6

Lucic-Ryan-Bennett

Rieder-Jankowski-Czarnik

 

 

[robrob74]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nico-hischier-agrees-seven-year-50-75m-contract-devils/?template=basic&template=basic

 

this could be a steal of a deal, no?

it isn’t the 10m that The Sabres gave Eichel.

 

for me it could show how inflated some contracts get. But I guess like all of the others he hasn’t quite proved himself and had a down year. But NJD are banking on him playing up to his 1st overall. 

 

I doubt this this affects any of the re-signs then Flames will need in a the coming years... I hope the market settles. 

 

I feel like the cap could change. But I guess players can’t put in a contract that they want to maintain the percentage of the cap they’re paid. It would come out of the bonus structure. Could that be the new wave of contracts as it guarantees they play to their market value when they sign? I doubt it would come to that but I just thought it could be conversation fodder. When Tkachuk signed there was worry others wouldn’t like that he is paid more. So I just wonder.

[cross16]

That's one of the more riskier contracts i've seen and i'm not sure I like it. I know he was hurt last year but through 2 seasons he's got a career high of 20 goals and IMO is one of the weaker first overall picks in a while. I guess if Kevin Hayes can get 7 mill though....

 

Generally speaking the process of paying your young players for potential has more hits then misses I think but this is just a massive commitment to a guy who IMO has not shown he's got top line potential and with them drafting Jack Hughes i'm not sure he'll ever get there. with Eichel, while I agree that 10 million seemed high he was coming off a near PPG season on a brutal team and as neck and neck with McDavid for much of his draft year. I could understand that commitment more than this one. Again, I get the process but wondering if this one may hurt the Devils but we'll see.

 

Definitely goes to who you Flames were going to have to pay tkachuk to get him on a 7 or 8 year deal and why many wanted that. 

[robrob74]

42 minutes ago, cross16 said:

That's one of the more riskier contracts i've seen and i'm not sure I like it. I know he was hurt last year but through 2 seasons he's got a career high of 20 goals and IMO is one of the weaker first overall picks in a while. I guess if Kevin Hayes can get 7 mill though....

 

Generally speaking the process of paying your young players for potential has more hits then misses I think but this is just a massive commitment to a guy who IMO has not shown he's got top line potential and with them drafting Jack Hughes i'm not sure he'll ever get there. with Eichel, while I agree that 10 million seemed high he was coming off a near PPG season on a brutal team and as neck and neck with McDavid for much of his draft year. I could understand that commitment more than this one. Again, I get the process but wondering if this one may hurt the Devils but we'll see.

 

Definitely goes to who you Flames were going to have to pay tkachuk to get him on a 7 or 8 year deal and why many wanted that. 

 

 

Well, I thought Morrison wasn’t really a #1C but had enough skill and speed to have a great mix with the Naslund and Bertuzzi line. I think chemistry and other players can lift a guy. It isn’t that he didn’t pull his weight but it was a perfect mix.

 

its like Monahan, Gaudreau and Lindholm. Gaudreau is the glue but the other two play up to his level, while Lindholm isn’t necessarily a first liner but with them he can, and we debate about Monahan as a 1C. It’s perfect for each other. 

 

 

[The_People1]

49 minutes ago, cross16 said:

That's one of the more riskier contracts i've seen and i'm not sure I like it. I know he was hurt last year but through 2 seasons he's got a career high of 20 goals and IMO is one of the weaker first overall picks in a while. I guess if Kevin Hayes can get 7 mill though....

 

Generally speaking the process of paying your young players for potential has more hits then misses I think but this is just a massive commitment to a guy who IMO has not shown he's got top line potential and with them drafting Jack Hughes i'm not sure he'll ever get there. with Eichel, while I agree that 10 million seemed high he was coming off a near PPG season on a brutal team and as neck and neck with McDavid for much of his draft year. I could understand that commitment more than this one. Again, I get the process but wondering if this one may hurt the Devils but we'll see.

 

Definitely goes to who you Flames were going to have to pay tkachuk to get him on a 7 or 8 year deal and why many wanted that. 

 

Ya agreed.  Hischier is yet to even flash small glimpses of being #1 overall worthy, let alone put up the numbers to prove himself.  We've seen more from Makar and Pettersson to make us think they are trending superstars from that draft year than Hischier.  Not sure what his original ceiling really was but he might become the next RNH.  Career 55-70 point guy who plays very vanilla.  Doesn't suck but excels at nothing in particular.

 

But also like you said, if Hayes is $7-mil... 

[robrob74]

42 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya agreed.  Hischier is yet to even flash small glimpses of being #1 overall worthy, let alone put up the numbers to prove himself.  We've seen more from Makar and Pettersson to make us think they are trending superstars from that draft year than Hischier.  Not sure what his original ceiling really was but he might become the next RNH.  Career 55-70 point guy who plays very vanilla.  Doesn't suck but excels at nothing in particular.

 

But also like you said, if Hayes is $7-mil... 

 

 

I sometimes wish they got paid according to goals, assists, points, what they do on PK. 

 

Is what Hiescher gets an indication of Backlund then, if he was on the open market?

[robrob74]

I hope the roster gets figured out soon. At least to give us some playoffs again this year. And maybe they play better. 

 

It scares me that the team still isn’t built to withstand a run. Options aren’t really there.

 

i think Czarnik is a retread of the hope to catch lightening in a bottle the way we’ve been grasping for that type of players for years. It has to be done! But is it a failed experiment? 

 

I see Byron as better in retrospect. He is a 200ft guy with heart. Move on! But there’s a hole in the lineup that could be filled.

[bosn111]

I see nothing at all as a link between the Hischier Deals and Backlund's contract. As Backs has a March birthday, he will be 35 when his contract is up. He has never put up huge offence but has helped out with 3 20+ goal seasons and 4 25+ assist seasons while being a solid defensive forward. 17/18 and 18/19 are actually both outlier years for him +/- with the first being uncharacteristically bad at -21 but the second being a record high of +34. He is typically in the single digit plus category against teams' best lines.

 

I would say that in all likelihood, if teams were trying to sign him today, his current contract would be considered very good team wise, though not quite a steal. Brayden Schenn and Khadri are comparable contracts. Khadri, with multiple 30+ goal seasons at 4.5 per is definitely a steal. Schenn is more offensive and just signed a 6.5 mil per extension. So I would say that Backs, signing today would be in the 5.5-6 mil per range so 5.35 per is a little better than what comparables might get.

 

Thankfully for his next contract, the Flames will be looking short term at reduced cost as anyone 35+ should not be getting huge contracts unless you are Ovechkin and still putting up around 50 goals per season. Even then the numbers need to start dropping and so pay does too.

 

When it comes to the current roster, I look at a few things. Trying to determine how the team is built, what the results could be, what they should be and what they are. Who is being used where and why. What is working and what isn't.

 

Like others, I don't believe that the way Treliving is building the team is necessarily the way that Peters wants the players to play. Either that or Treliving sees the potential in players that Peters doesn't tap into correctly. Either way, there is definitely a disconnect somewhere between the players and the game as a whole.

 

From what I read with respect to the players, Treliving has assembled quite a balanced team. I mean this in both the best and worst possible ways. The best is that the team can play any style on any given night and could find success. They can be high skill with Gaudreau, Lindholm, Backlund, Mangiapane, Brodie, Tkachuk or they can be high speed pressure with Reider, Bennett, Czarnik, Brodie, Kylington, or they can be heavy with Lucic, Giordano, Hamonic, Bennett, or they can be a possession team with Backlund, Frolik, Brodie, Hanifin, Jankowski, Tkachuk. The worst part is that it is so balanced that the team doesn't have one single identity that can really make the team fire consistently. 

 

I look at a lot of current teams who live or die by their identity. Teams like Edmonton and Toronto are all about their top end skilled offense that they are almost always in high scoring games win or lose. San Jose no longer has the speed so they are a more patient, possession team who flashes offense at opportune times. Colorado is all speed and skill who pressure you and jump on mistakes. The teams who are always in the mix for just in or just out of playoffs are typically teams built like the Flames, good at most things but not great and any 1 thing. The wild and Flames used to win games by stymying the opponents offence and capitalizing on 1 or 2 mistakes to win games 1-0 or 2-1. Boring I know but efficient. 

 

I honestly would like to see the Flames opened up a little more from the reigns. Stop this stupid bump back whether on PP or on 5 v 5 and let the horses run. Fast breaks, attack with speed and pressure like Colorado does. The team is too worried about turning over the puck because Peters and Treliving seem to want them to be more of a possession team that instead of pushing the pace, they sit back. Let guys let Bennett, Czarnik, Reider, Mangiapane, Gaudreau and Lindholm fly. The speed they could bring carrying the puck into the zone instead of dropping it back to Brodie to carry up the ice every time would put other teams on their heels. It's why the Flames lost the first round of the playoffs last year, always on their heels. Let them do the same to other teams.

[robrob74]

55 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

I see nothing at all as a link between the Hischier Deals and Backlund's contract. As Backs has a March birthday, he will be 35 when his contract is up. He has never put up huge offence but has helped out with 3 20+ goal seasons and 4 25+ assist seasons while being a solid defensive forward. 17/18 and 18/19 are actually both outlier years for him +/- with the first being uncharacteristically bad at -21 but the second being a record high of +34. He is typically in the single digit plus category against teams' best lines.

 

I would say that in all likelihood, if teams were trying to sign him today, his current contract would be considered very good team wise, though not quite a steal. Brayden Schenn and Khadri are comparable contracts. Khadri, with multiple 30+ goal seasons at 4.5 per is definitely a steal. Schenn is more offensive and just signed a 6.5 mil per extension. So I would say that Backs, signing today would be in the 5.5-6 mil per range so 5.35 per is a little better than what comparables might get.

 

Thankfully for his next contract, the Flames will be looking short term at reduced cost as anyone 35+ should not be getting huge contracts unless you are Ovechkin and still putting up around 50 goals per season. Even then the numbers need to start dropping and so pay does too.

 

When it comes to the current roster, I look at a few things. Trying to determine how the team is built, what the results could be, what they should be and what they are. Who is being used where and why. What is working and what isn't.

 

Like others, I don't believe that the way Treliving is building the team is necessarily the way that Peters wants the players to play. Either that or Treliving sees the potential in players that Peters doesn't tap into correctly. Either way, there is definitely a disconnect somewhere between the players and the game as a whole.

 

From what I read with respect to the players, Treliving has assembled quite a balanced team. I mean this in both the best and worst possible ways. The best is that the team can play any style on any given night and could find success. They can be high skill with Gaudreau, Lindholm, Backlund, Mangiapane, Brodie, Tkachuk or they can be high speed pressure with Reider, Bennett, Czarnik, Brodie, Kylington, or they can be heavy with Lucic, Giordano, Hamonic, Bennett, or they can be a possession team with Backlund, Frolik, Brodie, Hanifin, Jankowski, Tkachuk. The worst part is that it is so balanced that the team doesn't have one single identity that can really make the team fire consistently. 

 

I look at a lot of current teams who live or die by their identity. Teams like Edmonton and Toronto are all about their top end skilled offense that they are almost always in high scoring games win or lose. San Jose no longer has the speed so they are a more patient, possession team who flashes offense at opportune times. Colorado is all speed and skill who pressure you and jump on mistakes. The teams who are always in the mix for just in or just out of playoffs are typically teams built like the Flames, good at most things but not great and any 1 thing. The wild and Flames used to win games by stymying the opponents offence and capitalizing on 1 or 2 mistakes to win games 1-0 or 2-1. Boring I know but efficient. 

 

I honestly would like to see the Flames opened up a little more from the reigns. Stop this stupid bump back whether on PP or on 5 v 5 and let the horses run. Fast breaks, attack with speed and pressure like Colorado does. The team is too worried about turning over the puck because Peters and Treliving seem to want them to be more of a possession team that instead of pushing the pace, they sit back. Let guys let Bennett, Czarnik, Reider, Mangiapane, Gaudreau and Lindholm fly. The speed they could bring carrying the puck into the zone instead of dropping it back to Brodie to carry up the ice every time would put other teams on their heels. It's why the Flames lost the first round of the playoffs last year, always on their heels. Let them do the same to other teams.

 

 

I totally agree with this and think it is what I try to convey, exactly how I want the team to play. They have the puck but man they sure look robotic about it. I don’t feel like there is any emotion in their play until there is a goal for or against. I fear it is why guys like Kylington can’t play their game (based on speed). I don’t think fast when I think of our team. I think there is that possibility to be fast. 

[JTech780]

Justin Kirkland was scratched in Stockton's game tonight, possible recall? He has 3 points in 4 games and has the league minimum cap hit ($700k). 

 

If Lindholm is questionable and Mangiapane is out for awhile, having another forward around would make sense.

 

I am not sure going into LTIR would make the most sense though. Though sending Kylington down and running with 6 defensemen might not be the best course of action either.

 

Personally I would just go with 11 forwards and 7 defense, maybe try Kylington out as a forward for a couple of games.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Justin Kirkland was scratched in Stockton's game tonight, possible recall? He has 3 points in 4 games and has the league minimum cap hit ($700k). 

 

If Lindholm is questionable and Mangiapane is out for awhile, having another forward around would make sense.

 

I am not sure going into LTIR would make the most sense though. Though sending Kylington down and running with 6 defensemen might not be the best course of action either.

 

Personally I would just go with 11 forwards and 7 defense, maybe try Kylington out as a forward for a couple of games.

 

They tried him at F last year for a part of a game. 

I wondered if they should try him longer term. 

 

I wish the flames had some meaner players particularly on D.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Justin Kirkland was scratched in Stockton's game tonight, possible recall? He has 3 points in 4 games and has the league minimum cap hit ($700k). 

 

If Lindholm is questionable and Mangiapane is out for awhile, having another forward around would make sense.

 

I am not sure going into LTIR would make the most sense though. Though sending Kylington down and running with 6 defensemen might not be the best course of action either.

 

Personally I would just go with 11 forwards and 7 defense, maybe try Kylington out as a forward for a couple of games.

 

Calling up a F from Stockton isn;t ideal.

They would probably go the route of sending down Kylington to make it happen.

That would be a huge mistake.

Means Stone gets in.

Sorry but I have seen enough of him so far.

 

[JTech780]

 

Maybe I have to stop being so hard on the guy.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Maybe I have to stop being so hard on the guy.

 

Maybe he reads your posts.   

Seriously though, he could be a more impactfull player if he would play like this more often.

I thought him and Lucic lined up well on the 4th line.

That's a tough assignment, though.

Janko could use his speed better with a speedy player.

You almost never get to see it, since he looks like he is skating at 50%, unless it's a shorty breakaway.

[Carty]

Tonight's lineup has been updated in the GDT...   http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/22923-flames-kings-8pm-oct-19/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JTech780]

It wouldn't surprise me if they sent Kylington down today, as he probably wasn't going to play today anyways and call up a forward from Stockton. The forward group is a bit banged up right now and we could use an extra forward.

 

Playing in a back to back situation it makes sense to get Stone into a game here and get as many fresh bodies into he game as possible.

 

Justin Kirkland has been healthy scratched the last two games in Stockton, and he make league minimum. He didn't look out of place in training camp. Bring him up for a game and give one of the banged up forwards a day off.