Calgary Flames Offense

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Maybe I missed it last night.  I blinked a couple of times.  Did Peluso impact the game at all?

ARe we so loaded with talent that we can sit a 3/4 center?

...and breath...

We're so loaded with talent that we can coach Jankowski from above.

A luxury we've never had. see: Bennett

[CheersMan]

On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎11 at 6:03 AM, kehatch said:

One more thing. People aren't talking about it right now, but Frolik gets paid 4.3 and is on the fourth line. Neal is on a long term deal of almost 6 and is on the third. Ryan gets over 3 and is on the fourth. Stone is normally on the third pairing getting 3.5. That's a lot of money on the bottom lines and currently not producing. All have at least two seasons left. 

 

People aren't talking because we are at game 4. But if it keeps going up that's a lot of dead money you won't be able to trade. It is also probably a lot of disgruntled vets. 

I believe that is the price you pay for depth.

[kehatch]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

...and breath...

We're so loaded with talent that we can coach Jankowski from above.

A luxury we've never had. see: Bennett

 

If this was just a development decision to help Jankowski then they would have played Hathaway or called up someone else from the AHL. They also wouldn't have coincidently played Peluso as soon as Prout was sat. Or coincidently played Prout as soon as Hamonic got hurt in a fight. 

 

This is the Flames playing a face puncher because they feel they need to play a face puncher. And sitting Jankowski to have a goon play 5 minutes a night and try and enforce from the bench is silly.

[kehatch]

13 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I believe that is the price you pay for depth.

 

Yes, but also no. Having a strong third line and lots of options top 9 is depth. Paying over 8 million for a fourth line that barely plays or produces is trouble in a cap league. 

[The_People1]

On 10/11/2018 at 6:03 AM, kehatch said:

One more thing. People aren't talking about it right now, but Frolik gets paid 4.3 and is on the fourth line. Neal is on a long term deal of almost 6 and is on the third. Ryan gets over 3 and is on the fourth. Stone is normally on the third pairing getting 3.5. That's a lot of money on the bottom lines and currently not producing. All have at least two seasons left. 

 

People aren't talking because we are at game 4. But if it keeps going up that's a lot of dead money you won't be able to trade. It is also probably a lot of disgruntled vets. 

 

I've been talking about this before it even happened.

 

This is also not the price we pay for depth.  This is the price we pay for depth when we cannot draft and develop properly. The best way to keep depth cheap is to draft them yourselves.  

 

Like why not give Mangiapane and Klimchuk a chance?  Why go out and get Ryan?  Why not play Andersson ahead of Stone?  

[kehatch]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've been talking about this before it even happened.

 

This is also not the price we pay for depth.  This is the price we pay for depth when we cannot draft and develop properly. The best way to keep depth cheap is to draft them yourselves.  

 

Like why not give Mangiapane and Klimchuk a chance?  Why go out and get Ryan?  Why not play Andersson ahead of Stone?  

 

Stone was a mistake, pure and simple. Not the trade for him, with Giordano out they had to get someone, but the decision to sign him to that extension was a mistake. 

 

I am not too worried about Ryan, or the forwards in general.  I think Dube and Czarnik making the top 9 has bumped them down to the fourth line.  As has Bennett playing better.  But even with that Ryan played almost 15-minutes last game.  If I am worried about anyone it is Frolik.  Almost half of his time last game was on the PK.  He had around 5-minutes 5 on 5.  If that trend continues the Flames need to move him because that is almost a million dollars per 5 on 5 minute.  But it is too early to worry too much.  

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

...and breath...

We're so loaded with talent that we can coach Jankowski from above.

A luxury we've never had. see: Bennett

 

I don;t really care who they play.

Play Bennett 7 minutes or Frolik 7.

Suit up Prout every once in awhile.

Sit Hathaway.  Sit Janko.

The point is that Hathaway is better than Peluso, in every aspect except one.

Same for Janko.

It's early in the season, so I'm not freaking out.  Just try to ice the best player you can.

[7wit]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don;t really care who they play.

Play Bennett 7 minutes or Frolik 7.

Suit up Prout every once in awhile.

Sit Hathaway.  Sit Janko.

The point is that Hathaway is better than Peluso, in every aspect except one.

Same for Janko.

It's early in the season, so I'm not freaking out.  Just try to ice the best player you can.

 

Absolutely. Ice the best team you can. That shouldn’t mean Janko sits twice in a row, Hathaway doesn’t play, and Peluso plays twice in a row. This is unnecessary and won’t help you score. These are poor coaching decisions. Is Peluso the missing piece that will push us over the top? Very doubtful.

[travel_dude]

Lots of changes for #Flames:

- Rittich gets first start of season

- Hathaway will make season debut

- Jankowski back in after being a healthy scratch in last two games

- Frolik, Peluso and Prout healthy scratches

- Hanifin now paired with Andersson, Valimaki with Stone

 

It's funny how things go.  Last year it was sacrilege to split the 3M line.  Now Frolik is getting the hook.  Probably a good time to do it.  Not that he's been bad, just a couple of penalties too many.  You can't really do much if you are playing with Peluso, though.  I like the decision on D.  Hathaway may actually provide as much grit as Peluso did; he at least is a more effective thorn in the side of the other team.  

[MAC331]

As far as I'm concerned October is really hockey's pre-season. All team use this month to figure out what they have within their teams and the best combinations. BP is new here and is obviously feeling out the various possibilities which is necessary.

[7wit]

14 hours ago, MAC331 said:

As far as I'm concerned October is really hockey's pre-season. All team use this month to figure out what they have within their teams and the best combinations. BP is new here and is obviously feeling out the various possibilities which is necessary.

 

This is true, and so far it seems the Flames combinations are dominating offensively as games progress. This is a good sign. Looking forward to a productive offensive season over last year.

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, 7wit said:

 

This is true, and so far it seems the Flames combinations are dominating offensively as games progress. This is a good sign. Looking forward to a productive offensive season over last year.

 

I think this is true, but we also have to try harder as we seem to be playing from behind. Much like the Nashville game where they came on hard when they were down. It made it look like (to some) that we played a bad game. Was it Rob Kerr who goes on hockey central at noon on the fan, who said that game was the best he has seen the flames play in a long time? Or was that Peter Lou?

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think this is true, but we also have to try harder as we seem to be playing from behind. Much like the Nashville game where they came on hard when they were down. It made it look like (to some) that we played a bad game. Was it Rob Kerr who goes on hockey central at noon on the fan, who said that game was the best he has seen the flames play in a long time? Or was that Peter Lou?

Typical October IMO some things to like, somethings to endure and a time for these coaches to finalize some situations. The experimenting had to happen however I saw last night as they tried Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk together things didn't look great. Lindholm seemed lost being off the top line. I admit to being one that wanted to see Tkachuk on the top line RW but I don't think him and Gaudreau as playmakers on the same line will work. Maybe it was just me but a number of players seemed off their games being slotted here and there. Time to make some real decisions by the coaches I am thinking.

[DirtyDeeds]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think this is true, but we also have to try harder as we seem to be playing from behind. Much like the Nashville game where they came on hard when they were down. It made it look like (to some) that we played a bad game. Was it Rob Kerr who goes on hockey central at noon on the fan, who said that game was the best he has seen the flames play in a long time? Or was that Peter Lou?

Rob has left the Fan960 for a position with the Hitman hockey club. couple months now he has been gone.

[robrob74]

44 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Typical October IMO some things to like, somethings to endure and a time for these coaches to finalize some situations. The experimenting had to happen however I saw last night as they tried Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk together things didn't look great. Lindholm seemed lost being off the top line. I admit to being one that wanted to see Tkachuk on the top line RW but I don't think him and Gaudreau as playmakers on the same line will work. Maybe it was just me but a number of players seemed off their games being slotted here and there. Time to make some real decisions by the coaches I am thinking.

 

Yeah, but the Flames tend to play October style sporadic hockey all year. They’ve been a Jekyll and Hyde team for years but hoping that the changes made helps to change that.

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yeah, but the Flames tend to play October style sporadic hockey all year. They’ve been a Jekyll and Hyde team for years but hoping that the changes made helps to change that.

Every year is different IMO and things should change especially with the overall changes we have made. Is it really fair to say PHI are still the Broad Street Bullies ? No

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Typical October IMO some things to like, somethings to endure and a time for these coaches to finalize some situations. The experimenting had to happen however I saw last night as they tried Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk together things didn't look great. Lindholm seemed lost being off the top line. I admit to being one that wanted to see Tkachuk on the top line RW but I don't think him and Gaudreau as playmakers on the same line will work. Maybe it was just me but a number of players seemed off their games being slotted here and there. Time to make some real decisions by the coaches I am thinking.

 

BY the eye, there are a few here that would disagree.  BY the fancy stats, I'll just drop them here and let you decide:

 

Curious if #Flames line juggles tonight are only temporary.

 

Bennett-Backlund-Neal 5v5 attempts/possession:

Bennett: 16-4, 80.0%

Neal: 16-6, 72.7%

Backlund 20-8, 71.4%

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk on-ice high danger chances per @NatStatTrick:

Monahan 9-2

Gaudreau 8-2

Tkachuk 9-4

[Thebrewcrew]

Lots of chatter on here about Neal.

 

Perennial 20 goal guy. That averages out to about a goal every 4 games. Right now he has 1 in 5, ironically enough he scored in the 4th game of the year, so while very early and limited sample size he is "on pace" for 20

[ABC923]

On 10/13/2018 at 10:05 AM, The_People1 said:

 

I've been talking about this before it even happened.

 

This is also not the price we pay for depth.  This is the price we pay for depth when we cannot draft and develop properly. The best way to keep depth cheap is to draft them yourselves.  

 

Like why not give Mangiapane and Klimchuk a chance?  Why go out and get Ryan?  Why not play Andersson ahead of Stone?  

 

This I think is my biggest question.  I supported the signing at the time, as he's a solid choice for a 4th line center who can play up in the line-up.  But then we signed Neal, and Czarnik looks like a great add.  Lindholm is insane in the face-off circle, and suddenly we have a lot of expensive bodies occupying the fourth line who don't even specialize on special teams.  I get having depth in case of injury, but like you said, your depth on the 4th line shouldn't cost 3 million a player. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

 

This I think is my biggest question.  I supported the signing at the time, as he's a solid choice for a 4th line center who can play up in the line-up.  But then we signed Neal, and Czarnik looks like a great add.  Lindholm is insane in the face-off circle, and suddenly we have a lot of expensive bodies occupying the fourth line who don't even specialize on special teams.  I get having depth in case of injury, but like you said, your depth on the 4th line shouldn't cost 3 million a player. 

I think signing Ryan had more to do with the unknowns surrounding Bennett and Dube plus having one more RHS that plays C and RW. Now with what we are seeing from Bennett and Dube a high level of play these questions come out. Ryan is a player BP trusts to play well no matter where he needs him and that has value. I will keep saying this if we see ourselves as a playoff team this season build a better 2nd line and get the best checking line together in Frolik LW, Backlund C and Ryan RW.

[cross16]

For years now i've seen so many complaints on this board about faceoffs and RH shots. Treliving solves both with Derek Ryan and blocks no one in the organization to do that and now people complain?

 

Can't have it both ways. 

[7wit]

58 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think signing Ryan had more to do with the unknowns surrounding Bennett and Dube plus having one more RHS that plays C and RW. Now with what we are seeing from Bennett and Dube a high level of play these questions come out. Ryan is a player BP trusts to play well no matter where he needs him and that has value. I will keep saying this if we see ourselves as a playoff team this season build a better 2nd line and get the best checking line together in Frolik LW, Backlund C and Ryan RW.

 

At the time of the Ryan signing Dube was penciled in for the AHL. He wasn’t in the big club picture until his performance at training camp. Calgary was also weak in the face off circle last year and Ryan was brought in to help address that. On top of that, Peters knew him and liked him. The problem I have with the signing is that it was too much money for his age and length of NHL production. Knowing that he’s not going to be a top six guy, this contract was too expensive. Most likely, he won’t repeat his offensive numbers from last year. Also knowing that you have Tkachuk and a goalie to sign for next year, I’m not sure this was appropriate with the current depth already here. On one hand, I guess you would rather have a GM who is more prepared than not. If it doesn’t work it could be BT’s last year here. Putting your job on the line with rookies doesn’t bring much security. Now, if things stay the way they are, it looks as though someone is getting moved (if it’s possible to move a contract) unless Gillies or Rittich is your starter next year. For a deep playoff run, however, the depth would be good to have because at least you have someone who can play up or down the lineup in case of injury.

[travel_dude]

55 minutes ago, cross16 said:

For years now i've seen so many complaints on this board about faceoffs and RH shots. Treliving solves both with Derek Ryan and blocks no one in the organization to do that and now people complain?

 

Can't have it both ways. 

 

Right now Lindholm is sitting #2 in faceoff win%.

At least it was that way up to yesterday.

Behind ROR, which shouldn't be a surprise.

 

I know that Lindy doesn't take as many as say Backlund, but he's showing his skill in that aspect as well.

Having Ryan as a dependable option is great.

 

 

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, 7wit said:

 

At the time of the Ryan signing Dube was penciled in for the AHL. He wasn’t in the big club picture until his performance at training camp. Calgary was also weak in the face off circle last year and Ryan was brought in to help address that. On top of that, Peters knew him and liked him. The problem I have with the signing is that it was too much money for his age and length of NHL production. Knowing that he’s not going to be a top six guy, this contract was too expensive. Most likely, he won’t repeat his offensive numbers from last year. Also knowing that you have Tkachuk and a goalie to sign for next year, I’m not sure this was appropriate with the current depth already here. On one hand, I guess you would rather have a GM who is more prepared than not. If it doesn’t work it could be BT’s last year here. Putting your job on the line with rookies doesn’t bring much security. Now, if things stay the way they are, it looks as though someone is getting moved (if it’s possible to move a contract) unless Gillies or Rittich is your starter next year. For a deep playoff run, however, the depth would be good to have because at least you have someone who can play up or down the lineup in case of injury.

NO sorry can't agree with your thinking here on dollars. Ryan was, will and should be 3rd line material and 3.5M is right on the money IMO. You enhance your chances of winning with the likes of Ryan, Backlund and Frolik using their experience to do the heavy lifting to keep the opposition down. Jankowski, Dube and Czarnik have lots to learn yet in order to take over for these guys but I love their direction.

[7wit]

14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

NO sorry can't agree with your thinking here on dollars. Ryan was, will and should be 3rd line material and 3.5M is right on the money IMO. You enhance your chances of winning with the likes of Ryan, Backlund and Frolik using their experience to do the heavy lifting to keep the opposition down. Jankowski, Dube and Czarnik have lots to learn yet in order to take over for these guys but I love their direction.

 

We can agree to disagree on the value of his contract for a 3/4 line player. I think it’s too high and I hope it doesn’t become a contract which is difficult to move in the future. I feel we could have got him signed below $3 million a season. Just my thoughts.