Blockbuster: Hamilton Ferland Fox for Hanifin Lindholm

[cross16]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Fox looks like a good player but there's no way Fox's upside is even close to Hanifin's upside.  Hanifin is better than Dougie Hamilton at the same age... but i do get the RHS thing and Dougie will be more valuable because of it.  I agree, it will be interesting to see if Fox will be willing to sign in Carolina considering they are stacked on RHS RD.  Hamilton, Faulk, Pesce, and Van Reimsdyk.  Fox will get stuck on the depth chart.  If he had a choice to play one more year of College and then get to hand pick where to go, then that's probably his best bet.

 

I do think Lindholm is a 70-point guy.  Lindholm doesn't look like a guy who can create something out of nothing on a consistent basis and lead a line of his own but he's an excellent complementary player.  He's something like a Rickard Rakell.  With the right linemates, he's smart enough to cash in his chances.

 

I really wish we could've nabbed a couple more players from Carolina because they're a team full of young kids waiting to enter their primes and just needs a change of scenery.

 

And to be fair I'm not doubting that Lindholm is this good. The release he has shown this season is unreal and you don't tend to just lose that. It's just so hard to fathom a player with This skill set couldn't crack 20 goals and 50 points for multiple seasons. 

 

Im still not with you on Hanifin's upside but we don't need to split hairs. Imo he lacks the hockey IQ to hit that elite potential and is more likely to just stay at this level, which is not necessarily a problem either. I do think Fox's upside matches Hanifin in terms of being a good to very good 2nd pairing guy. But again I've changed my opinion on ththe deal, Lindholm was the price and the player that tilts it for Calgary. 

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

And to be fair I'm not doubting that Lindholm is this good. The release he has shown this season is unreal and you don't tend to just lose that. It's just so hard to fathom a player with This skill set couldn't crack 20 goals and 50 points for multiple seasons. 

 

Im still not with you on Hanifin's upside but we don't need to split hairs. Imo he lacks the hockey IQ to hit that elite potential and is more likely to just stay at this level, which is not necessarily a problem either. I do think Fox's upside matches Hanifin in terms of being a good to very good 2nd pairing guy. But again I've changed my opinion on ththe deal, Lindholm was the price and the player that tilts it for Calgary. 

 

Lindholm was used more in a shutdown role in CAR, so there's a good chance that's why he never eclipsed 47 points.

But, there's a big reason why he's over a point per game; playing with Gaudreau.

Both Lindholm and Monahan possess a quick release, very accurate.

And they seem to know when to come in waves.

Score on the first wave, rebound or trailer.

 

[JTech780]

At first I was excited to get Hamilton form the Bruins, but after watching him play in Calgary for a couple of seasons, I understood why they were willing to trade him. IMO he might be one of the most overrated players in the league. He is a nightmare to watch in his own zone, he might also be one of the softest players in the league which compounded when think that guy with his size can be so soft. I was pretty relieved when we traded him and I was pretty sure that Hanifin would end up being as good or better than Hamilton in a year or two, but he has shown to be as good as Hamilton this year.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

And to be fair I'm not doubting that Lindholm is this good. The release he has shown this season is unreal and you don't tend to just lose that. It's just so hard to fathom a player with This skill set couldn't crack 20 goals and 50 points for multiple seasons. 

 

Im still not with you on Hanifin's upside but we don't need to split hairs. Imo he lacks the hockey IQ to hit that elite potential and is more likely to just stay at this level, which is not necessarily a problem either. I do think Fox's upside matches Hanifin in terms of being a good to very good 2nd pairing guy. But again I've changed my opinion on ththe deal, Lindholm was the price and the player that tilts it for Calgary. 

 

The team that gets the best player wins the trade.  So, we won.

[conundrumed]

21 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

And to be fair I'm not doubting that Lindholm is this good. The release he has shown this season is unreal and you don't tend to just lose that. It's just so hard to fathom a player with This skill set couldn't crack 20 goals and 50 points for multiple seasons. 

 

Im still not with you on Hanifin's upside but we don't need to split hairs. Imo he lacks the hockey IQ to hit that elite potential and is more likely to just stay at this level, which is not necessarily a problem either. I do think Fox's upside matches Hanifin in terms of being a good to very good 2nd pairing guy. But again I've changed my opinion on ththe deal, Lindholm was the price and the player that tilts it for Calgary. 

Hanafin’s movement I think is a work in progress that should get better. I’ve noticed him leaving position too early to the detriment of the puck handler and he can be too casual with the puck.

When he cleans up that stuff he’ll do well.

Seems like he’s still adjusting to bigger minutes, just needs to hold his position a bit longer or rotate rather than head to the net.

Game tape should be “coachable moments” as BP says.

The joy is the ways he can improve are in the details, not the skill level.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hanafin’s movement I think is a work in progress that should get better. I’ve noticed him leaving position too early to the detriment of the puck handler and he can be too casual with the puck.

When he cleans up that stuff he’ll do well.

Seems like he’s still adjusting to bigger minutes, just needs to hold his position a bit longer or rotate rather than head to the net.

Game tape should be “coachable moments” as BP says.

The joy is the ways he can improve are in the details, not the skill level.

 

I would tend to agree.  A little loose with the puck some times.  Seems like a good fit with Hammer.  

Overall, I would say he's smarter in his own zone than Hamilton, also uses his size.  Not a huge hitter but he's using it.

Skating is crisp.  Shoots when he gets a chance, and doesn't tend to hit shinpads too often.

[ABC923]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would tend to agree.  A little loose with the puck some times.  Seems like a good fit with Hammer.  

Overall, I would say he's smarter in his own zone than Hamilton, also uses his size.  Not a huge hitter but he's using it.

Skating is crisp.  Shoots when he gets a chance, and doesn't tend to hit shinpads too often.

I don't think Hanifin will ever match Hamilton's offensive prowess, but the fact that Hanifin plays regularly on the PK when Hamilton didn't is good indicator to me that he is better in his own end.  Glad to have him on the team.

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I don't think Hanifin will ever match Hamilton's offensive prowess, but the fact that Hanifin plays regularly on the PK when Hamilton didn't is good indicator to me that he is better in his own end.  Glad to have him on the team.

 

I think they should either play him with Ras on RD for the PP#2 or swap him out.

I'm not overly impressed with him on the PP.

Then again, Backlund, Ryan and Bennett aren't doing much for that unit either.

 

Last year, the coach held Dougie off the PP for so long, but as soon as he played there, the points started piling up.

Hamilton had the ability to get the puck on net, but had little defensive awareness while holding the line.

Hanifin is a little weak holding the line too.  IMHO.

The other guy back there on the PP is Ryan.

Great at faceoffs, but had trouble with an agressive PK.

[cross16]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hanafin’s movement I think is a work in progress that should get better. I’ve noticed him leaving position too early to the detriment of the puck handler and he can be too casual with the puck.

When he cleans up that stuff he’ll do well.

Seems like he’s still adjusting to bigger minutes, just needs to hold his position a bit longer or rotate rather than head to the net.

Game tape should be “coachable moments” as BP says.

The joy is the ways he can improve are in the details, not the skill level.

 

This could all very well be true but for me personally I get a little pessimistic when I see the same things pre draft show up many years later. Leads me to conclude its more of an IQ thing then a coachable thing. He reminds me a lot of TJ Brodie and that's then career trajectory I would estimate. 

 

That's not a bad thing nor is it a problem for the flames. Especially when you've got Lindholm for what looks like an absolutely steal of a contract. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

Sportsnet has an article asking if the Leafs should pick up Hamilton. The question of why he hasnt stayed longer with either the Flames or Bruins seems to be in the forefront. I could see him helping the Leafs but not nearly enough for what they need.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Sportsnet has an article asking if the Leafs should pick up Hamilton. The question of why he hasnt stayed longer with either the Flames or Bruins seems to be in the forefront. I could see him helping the Leafs but not nearly enough for what they need.

 

He’s a guy who doesn’t like the limelight, Toronto he will be interviewed after every game and practice. I don’t know if that’s a great fit for him

[rickross]

Sounds like the Canes are shopping Ferland. We could use his physical presence for sure, curious if ppl think he’d fit this current Flames group or has the Ferland ship sailed?

[cross16]

55 minutes ago, rickross said:

Sounds like the Canes are shopping Ferland. We could use his physical presence for sure, curious if ppl think he’d fit this current Flames group or has the Ferland ship sailed?

 

I think it's sailed but even if it hasn't there is no way the Flames should pay anything close to that. That's probably higher than what it will eventually cost but not by much. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

Sounds like the Canes are shopping Ferland. We could use his physical presence for sure, curious if ppl think he’d fit this current Flames group or has the Ferland ship sailed?

 

I don't see this working out for us, as much of a fan of the Big MF I am.

He's not a 2nd line defensiev player.

He's looking for more than $3m in his next deal.

The cost would be high.

His concussion history is concerning. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't see this working out for us, as much of a fan of the Big MF I am.

He's not a 2nd line defensiev player.

He's looking for more than $3m in his next deal.

The cost would be high.

His concussion history is concerning. 

I looks like the concussion fear has taken away alot of the physicality out of his game. Sadly that was when he was most effective.

[conundrumed]

18 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I looks like the concussion fear has taken away alot of the physicality out of his game. Sadly that was when he was most effective.

I think we all knew that style wasn’t sustainable.

We’ve already upgraded from him.

Now he wants to get paid. Another bonus for us from that trade.

Want to be like Carolina? 

Have guys like Ferland in your top 6. We already played that card with the same result.

[conundrumed]

On 2019-01-07 at 4:57 PM, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Sportsnet has an article asking if the Leafs should pick up Hamilton. The question of why he hasnt stayed longer with either the Flames or Bruins seems to be in the forefront. I could see him helping the Leafs but not nearly enough for what they need.

 

Did they happen to bring up the cap predicament? Lol

It’s like the Oilers, spend through the roof at F at the expense of D.

The Tavares signing repercussions are many-fold.

edit

If you like migraines, go on capfriendly and pretend you’re Dubas.

Marleau buyout looks inevitable or it’ll be an easy $53mil at F without even having a full F roster.

Lou must have said, “I’m too old for this Satoshi Nakamoto”. Lol

Wonder if he was against signing Tavares?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Did they happen to bring up the cap predicament? Lol

It’s like the Oilers, spend through the roof at F at the expense of D.

The Tavares signing repercussions are many-fold.

edit

If you like migraines, go on capfriendly and pretend you’re Dubas.

Marleau buyout looks inevitable or it’ll be an easy $53mil at F without even having a full F roster.

Lou must have said, “I’m too old for this Satoshi Nakamoto”. Lol

Wonder if he was against signing Tavares?

I wonder if Marner or Matthews will make it to the offer sheet stage? If so I'd love to see the Islanders make an offer to either for around the  11 mil mark. Just for a bit of an FU to Tavares.

[Cowtownguy]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Did they happen to bring up the cap predicament? Lol

It’s like the Oilers, spend through the roof at F at the expense of D.

The Tavares signing repercussions are many-fold.

edit

If you like migraines, go on capfriendly and pretend you’re Dubas.

Marleau buyout looks inevitable or it’ll be an easy $53mil at F without even having a full F roster.

Lou must have said, “I’m too old for this Satoshi Nakamoto”. Lol

Wonder if he was against signing Tavares?

I never quite understood the Tavares move and Lou leaving. First, Tavares is so expensive and you already have a solid forward roster. I also thought it odd for Lou to build the team, and then leave once he helped create a contender. Your guess might well be correct.

[rocketdoctor]

 

5M?  Can't see BT asking Ferly back any time soon.

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

 

5M?  Can't see BT asking Ferly back any time soon.

 

Ya man.  $5-mil over two years, not bad.  "Per year", OMG.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya man.  $5-mil over two years, not bad.  "Per year", OMG.

This year the Canes have the lowest payroll. Thats gonna change as they need to resign 2 goalies (not including darling) and most of their forwards. Aho and Teravainen are due for massive raises. I'm not sure any team is gonna see Ferland as a 5mil player, unless he tears it up for the remainder.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

This year the Canes have the lowest payroll. Thats gonna change as they need to resign 2 goalies (not including darling) and most of their forwards. Aho and Teravainen are due for massive raises. I'm not sure any team is gonna see Ferland as a 5mil player, unless he tears it up for the remainder.

 

Ironically, it would be great to get Ferland back for the playoffs but the rumoured ask of a first round pick plus a prospect is too much.  Maybe they are willing to take Neal for Ferland straight up.  Maybe they want Ryan back?  Maybe a prospect like Mangiapane?

[robrob74]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ironically, it would be great to get Ferland back for the playoffs but the rumoured ask of a first round pick plus a prospect is too much.  Maybe they are willing to take Neal for Ferland straight up.  Maybe they want Ryan back?  Maybe a prospect like Mangiapane?

 

Is Mangiapane and 2nd rounder too much?

[conundrumed]

25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ironically, it would be great to get Ferland back for the playoffs but the rumoured ask of a first round pick plus a prospect is too much.  Maybe they are willing to take Neal for Ferland straight up.  Maybe they want Ryan back?  Maybe a prospect like Mangiapane?

Nope.

Maybe you should just be quiet.