Oilers

[cross16]

Definitely not a discount. Supposed you could argue he had a chance to get more but anytime you become the highest paid player in the league I don't buy any "discount" arguments. 

 

Credit to the OIlers for keeping a player of his caliber in the fold.  Big piece of business but the real business for them is next summer. 

[JTech780]

They are really going to have to start hitting home runs at the draft or hope for guys to keep taking discounts to try and win, because it’s going to be really hard to build depth going forward.

 

They still have to sign Bouchard for next year. He is going to cost at least Nurse’s $9.25m. The year after McDavid and Skinner both get raises. 
 

It’s fair value for Draisaitl so I can’t give them a hard time on that, I just don’t know if you can win with both making that much, and still not having a true number 1 defenseman.

[sak22]

Well on one hand if we continue to see 4 million cap increases in 5 years it might not be that big of a hit, the flip side is how will 34 year old Leon Draisaitl hold up, I could see it going either way with him but I don't know if he is still a top of the league producer at 34.  As stated the importance shifts to drafting and development, but in the short term they will still likely wind up deadline buyers and deplete their drafts, and the guy who failed to build a competitive team around an aging Kane and Toews can see if he can do it for Edmonton.

[cross16]

42 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Well on one hand if we continue to see 4 million cap increases in 5 years it might not be that big of a hit, the flip side is how will 34 year old Leon Draisaitl hold up, I could see it going either way with him but I don't know if he is still a top of the league producer at 34.  As stated the importance shifts to drafting and development, but in the short term they will still likely wind up deadline buyers and deplete their drafts, and the guy who failed to build a competitive team around an aging Kane and Toews can see if he can do it for Edmonton.

 

 

I agree. I expect the cap to be at 100mill in the next couple years so I actually don't think the money is the problem. There's room to sign everyone and still be good but it's up to the GM/ hockey ops to find talent around it and the question is can they do that?

 

I think this idea that paying your stars comes at the expense of winning cups is false and honestly a cop out for bad GMing. Everyone loves to point at the Leafs and laugh how they paid their starts, but I'd point out that from 2017 to 2021, they drafted 3 maybe 4 full time impact NHLers and 2 of them they already traded away. 

 

The problem in Edm is going to be age and this talent infusion. They have a brutal prospect pool now, so how do you get those players while also understanding you are giving these guys their retirement contracts. 

 

and of course the biggest question comes down to does McDavid want to stay. 

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

 

Don't know if I'd call it taking a discount to win, but they did get it done.

 

$14-mil is about what most people thought.  $15-mil was probably the upper limit but to say he took a discount, not really.

 

This keeps the Oilers window open for several more years assuming McDavid also extends next season.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Credit to the OIlers for keeping a player of his caliber in the fold.  Big piece of business but the real business for them is next summer. 

 

Agreed.

 

In a way, I'm happy to see Draisaitl stay because it sucks to see small market teams lose their star players to bigger markets.

[cross16]

Front loaded and bonus heavy contract for Draisaitl. makes this buyout proof 
 

not that he should have but I don’t see how he gave the oilers any break here. Maybe, maybe he originally asked for 15 and this is a concession but this is a much better contract for him than the Oilers. 
 

 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.

 

In a way, I'm happy to see Draisaitl stay because it sucks to see small market teams lose their star players to bigger markets.

True, but ideally you would like to get better terms.  We are seeing the cost of keeping a star player blow up in our faces with Huberdeau already.  Familiarity works in their favor, but this is a guy I could see playing well into his 30's and I could see hitting a wall and declining with or without McDavid.  If your an Oiler fan today you should be happy, no distraction team can focus on winning that one extra game, but I still wouldn't feel strong about an extension of their window and there is a lot of risk in this deal.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Front loaded and bonus heavy contract for Draisaitl. makes this buyout proof 
 

not that he should have but I don’t see how he gave the oilers any break here. Maybe, maybe he originally asked for 15 and this is a concession but this is a much better contract for him than the Oilers. 
 

 

 

Why is bonus better than base pay?  

 

Tax reasons?  I thought bonuses were taxed 50% in Canada?

[robrob74]

31 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Why is bonus better than base pay?  

 

Tax reasons?  I thought bonuses were taxed 50% in Canada?

 

I think the  bonus is guaranteed money, so if a buyout happens, maybe they can only pay him out on a portion of the 1m salary and the SB is guaranteed. So he get all of that for sure... 

 

I don't know tax very well. I'm not making millions lol

[sak22]

42 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think the  bonus is guaranteed money, so if a buyout happens, maybe they can only pay him out on a portion of the 1m salary and the SB is guaranteed. So he get all of that for sure... 

 

I don't know tax very well. I'm not making millions lol

Correct.  Tax isn't my strong suit in the accounting world but I believe bonus rates at the top tax bracket are the same as regular income so I don't think it has any disadvantage from a tax perspective.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Why is bonus better than base pay?  

 

Tax reasons?  I thought bonuses were taxed 50% in Canada?

 

A few reasons. 

It's guaranteed so in the case of a potential labor shortage they still get paid. If you want to buy a player out you still need to give them their signing bonus so it protects against that scenario. 

Flexibility. Signing bonuses can be set up on certain schedules where base pay is paid according to NHL schedule. More often that not signing bonuses are due as soon as the league year starts so you get money in your pocket that normally would sit in the owners. Who doesn't want money in their pocket (be able to invest/spend as you choose) instead of waiting for it. 

Bonuses are not taxed any differently than salary so it's not more punitive from a tax perspective. There is potential it could be beneficial but that comes down to residence questions (your taxed based on your residency). 

 

On the notion of tax, if you are getting lump sums it is possible to set up different products that could defer some of that tax and could make it beneficial later on in the players life/career but again that's situational dependent 

 

To make a long story short It's mostly around the guarantee and the flexibility from what I understand

[Thebrewcrew]

Good for Edmonton.

 

They had no choice, but this contract is largely paying for what he's done, more-so than what he's going to do. Runs from ages 30-38.

 

I think their best chance to win is the next two seasons. Meaning the back half of that Draisaitl deal isn't a concern. The contract I'm going to be most interested in is Stuart Skinner. He will be a 27yr old #1 goalie when his deal is up. That's an easy 6x6 at minimum. Can Edmonton do that though? If you project 40m for Bouchard/McD/Drai, they're at 59.875 when you include RNH, Hyman and Nurse. Over 60% of the cap on six players. They will have to make concessions somewhere on the roster, I wonder if it's not in net.

 

Matt Savoie still has his full ELC, but I'm thinking they might wanna get that 2nd contract done a year out.

[conundrumed]

So what are we thinking for McDavid, $16.5?

There is definitely a scenario, even at $100mil cap, they'll have 4 players eating up nearly 50% of it.

It's probably a good thing that a lot of solid depth players (peasants) will take deep discounts, just to be in the presence of such greatness.

Wasn't Toronto hedging their bets on big cap increases that never materialized?

Good on them, though. Maybe don't play these guys 28 mins/gm, and they'll still have legs at 34. Just a thought.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So what are we thinking for McDavid, $16.5?

There is definitely a scenario, even at $100mil cap, they'll have 4 players eating up nearly 50% of it.

It's probably a good thing that a lot of solid depth players (peasants) will take deep discounts, just to be in the presence of such greatness.

Wasn't Toronto hedging their bets on big cap increases that never materialized?

Good on them, though. Maybe don't play these guys 28 mins/gm, and they'll still have legs at 34. Just a thought.

 

McD will be signing after the new cap estimates/numbers are available.  There is no reason to believe he signs for less than $20M which I think would be the max % of the cap at that time.  

[jjgallow]

17 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Good for Edmonton.

 

They had no choice, but this contract is largely paying for what he's done, more-so than what he's going to do. Runs from ages 30-38.

 

I think their best chance to win is the next two seasons. Meaning the back half of that Draisaitl deal isn't a concern. The contract I'm going to be most interested in is Stuart Skinner. He will be a 27yr old #1 goalie when his deal is up. That's an easy 6x6 at minimum. Can Edmonton do that though? If you project 40m for Bouchard/McD/Drai, they're at 59.875 when you include RNH, Hyman and Nurse. Over 60% of the cap on six players. They will have to make concessions somewhere on the roster, I wonder if it's not in net.

 

Matt Savoie still has his full ELC, but I'm thinking they might wanna get that 2nd contract done a year out.

 

I personally feel their best chance to win was last year, and will remain so for at minimum a decade.

 

But, definitely, their next two years will be better than what comes after.

 

I know there are many opinions on this but I personally believe Draisaitl is a point-per-game player without McDavid.  Taking into consideration his age.    I like Draisaitl but that's what see.

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I personally feel their best chance to win was last year, and will remain so for at minimum a decade.

 

But, definitely, their next two years will be better than what comes after.

 

I know there are many opinions on this but I personally believe Draisaitl is a point-per-game player without McDavid.  Taking into consideration his age.    I like Draisaitl but that's what see.

 

 

 

Take McD off the PP, and Draisaitl is much less effective.  Essentially, McD takes 2 men off Drai.  They have to give up the circle to him because two guys have to swap when McD weaves around.  Put Drai on CGY's PP and he looks boring.  Right now, he's like Ovi was 2-5 years ago.  

 

So, I am with you to suggest that Drai is at best a 40 goal 80 point guy without playing at the same time as McD.  It's their go-to move every game, whether it's a shift, the PP or the whole game.

[Thebrewcrew]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I personally feel their best chance to win was last year, and will remain so for at minimum a decade.

 

But, definitely, their next two years will be better than what comes after.

 

I know there are many opinions on this but I personally believe Draisaitl is a point-per-game player without McDavid.  Taking into consideration his age.    I like Draisaitl but that's what see.

 

 

I’m not wishing injury on anybody.  I’ve always wondered though what 29 would look like without 97, for ten or fifteen games. 
 

Fortunately, for Edmonton those guys have been very durable. It’s just something I’ve pondered. I think Draisaitl is very good, I’ve just never bought into the argument that he’s the 2nd best in the game. That could change if he ever had to run the show for a portion of the season though.

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, travel_dude said:

McD will be signing after the new cap estimates/numbers are available.  There is no reason to believe he signs for less than $20M which I think would be the max % of the cap at that time.  

 

Unless he's already won a Cup, I think McDavid is smart enough to know he can't eat that much cap and still have good teammates and still compete for the Cup.  I think $16-mil is likely though.

[sak22]

59 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Unless he's already won a Cup, I think McDavid is smart enough to know he can't eat that much cap and still have good teammates and still compete for the Cup.  I think $16-mil is likely though.

Why should he take a cut when others took top dollar.  The best players in the league should be the ones making closer to the max that they are allowed to make, its the teams responsibility to build around those players in economical sense.  There were no 4M 3rd pairing guys on Florida, half of Florida's top 6 forwards had cap hits under 5 million.  Pay your stars and look for bargains, we all know that Zadorov will get bought out eventually so why do teams still give out those deals.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Unless he's already won a Cup, I think McDavid is smart enough to know he can't eat that much cap and still have good teammates and still compete for the Cup.  I think $16-mil is likely though.

 

He signed for the biggest deal last time.  No reason to think he would do less.

The cap is going up and salaries are too.

If Nurse gets $9.25M why would he deserve less than double.

And Nurse was signed a long time ago.

Nobody was saying Nurse should settle, nor Draisaitl.