robrob74 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Like BT was saying, the cost to get into the 1st rd is too high. Maybe he should remember that BEFORE he trades those picks from now on. I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 This discussion is very similar to what happened after the jokienen trade. When Brandon Gromley "slid" to the Coyotes and was supposed to be a steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Well, we already have Valamaki, so it has no bearing on this draft. Would we still have taken Dobson, should it not be BPA anyway because they end up worth more if they pan out? The question was posed earlier who was better, and would it have been better to keep last years first and deal this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, cross16 said: The question was posed earlier who was better, and would it have been better to keep last years first and deal this one. I realised it later as I just got to the message board. I am reading it backwards now, to where I was when I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Those are all late guys you mentioned, but the Isles got a guy who dropped from the Top5 in the draft. It’s more like 2-3 years in harmonic than 3-4 unless we sign an extension. If we don’t extend then that is a really bad deal. Much more impressed with DET's picks. Zadina? My my. Veleno. Top 10. Anyway, just saying that Hamonic was not great in year 1, but we traded for more than a one year NHL player. If Dobson (or anyone later in the 1st) ends up being better than Hamonic, then it's a bad deal. If we win the cup with Hamonic, then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 I'd 26 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Well, we already have Valamaki, so it has no bearing on this draft. Would we still have taken Dobson, should it not be BPA anyway because they end up worth more if they pan out? Dobson was BPA, or is that what you mean. SUCKED to see Bouchard go to the Oilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Much more impressed with DET's picks. Zadina? My my. Veleno. Top 10. Anyway, just saying that Hamonic was not great in year 1, but we traded for more than a one year NHL player. If Dobson (or anyone later in the 1st) ends up being better than Hamonic, then it's a bad deal. If we win the cup with Hamonic, then..... Veleno isn't that good, he wasn't anywhere near a top 10 pick. I didn't have him in my top 20. He is a good skater and has good skills, but he never produced at a rate that you would expect from a guy that was given exceptional status or for a guy that I would take in the top 20. I think where he went is about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Much more impressed with DET's picks. Zadina? My my. Veleno. Top 10. Forced NOT to take Dmen, lol. With 33 and 36 tomorrow, they can still get quality D. Nice draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Veleno isn't that good, he wasn't anywhere near a top 10 pick. I didn't have him in my top 20. This isn't exactly a response to your post, only that I am interested in the differences of opinion. It really made me realize that I missed Crzydrvr's take this year. Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, conundrumed said: I'd Dobson was BPA, or is that what you mean. SUCKED to see Bouchard go to the Oilers. Yup, it is what I meant. Id have liked Barzal in the other draft as well... but that just goes to show we all have our own opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Much more impressed with DET's picks. Zadina? My my. Veleno. Top 10. Anyway, just saying that Hamonic was not great in year 1, but we traded for more than a one year NHL player. If Dobson (or anyone later in the 1st) ends up being better than Hamonic, then it's a bad deal. If we win the cup with Hamonic, then..... I get that Its hard to justify not doing both deals in the moment. Something about Hamilton just rubs me wrong the whole time. There are some things you just can’t pinpoint. This is one of them. I dont mind Hamonic. Funny how it works. A guy gets 50 points and I don’t like him but I can live with Hamonic but just not the deal. For me, because of the rebuild, I wanted to keep picks and build that way, how the chips may have fallen. I’d have preferred Barzal. We see just how much that difference maker can be at forward. We have some really good pieces, but it takes more than Monahan and Gaudreau to win a cup. We need another big time F, and a few top D. Maybe Hamilton is that guy? I still want Barzal and the other picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 So if we don't get a pick in the 2nd or the 3rd, should we go for high risk high reward picks in the 4th or should we play it a bit safer? I think you have to swing for the fences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I get that Its hard to justify not doing both deals in the moment. Something about Hamilton just rubs me wrong the whole time. There are some things you just can’t pinpoint. This is one of them. I dont mind Hamonic. Funny how it works. A guy gets 50 points and I don’t like him but I can live with Hamonic but just not the deal. For me, because of the rebuild, I wanted to keep picks and build that way, how the chips may have fallen. I’d have preferred Barzal. We see just how much that difference maker can be at forward. We have some really good pieces, but it takes more than Monahan and Gaudreau to win a cup. We need another big time F, and a few top D. Maybe Hamilton is that guy? I still want Barzal and the other picks. We didn't see much movement in the 1st, drafts are becoming less and less crapshoots. More and more much better conditioned kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, cross16 said: This discussion is very similar to what happened after the jokienen trade. When Brandon Gromley "slid" to the Coyotes and was supposed to be a steal. I think Dobson has way more character and thinks the game way better than Gormley. He is big, skates well. He went over sees to play for Red Bull as a 15 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 minute ago, JTech780 said: So if we don't get a pick in the 2nd or the 3rd, should we go for high risk high reward picks in the 4th or should we play it a bit safer? I think you have to swing for the fences. I'd go with a safe pick, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 2 hours ago, cross16 said: I would take Valamki over Dobson personally. I'm not that beat up that he was there. Wahlstrom was the guy that if he made it there would have sucked. I like Wahlstrom too, I just worry a little with him that how much of his success was playing with Jack Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 I really like Dallas taking Ty Dellandrea at 13. He is going to be a really, really good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Philly probably had the worst 1st round IMO (of teams with 1st round picks), I don't like the Farabee pick, he benefitted a lot from playing with Hughes and Wahlstrom, I do think think he has much upside. O'Brien wasn't a good pick either. He is one of the older players in the draft and played against lesser talent in high school. He is going to Providence so he will learn how to play defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 3 hours ago, JTech780 said: So if we don't get a pick in the 2nd or the 3rd, should we go for high risk high reward picks in the 4th or should we play it a bit safer? I think you have to swing for the fences. It's the 4th on, you pretty much have to swing for the fences. I feel like there isn't really a lot of "Safe picks" from the mid 3rd round on. If they were good enough to be safe picks, they would have gone in the first 2 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 7 hours ago, cross16 said: The question was posed earlier who was better, and would it have been better to keep last years first and deal this one. Since no one can see the future, nor know what might have happened, its a moot question. At this point neither Valimaki nor Dobson are NHLers, much less dominating there. From what we know at the moment Valimaki should make it and could become a dominant Norris-level D, in the mold of Gio. We need to do everything possible to help him get there, and others to do the same (ie rich their potential), like Bennett. Heck, if Bennett ever gets his stuff together and becomes a Gilmour-clone dominant 1C, like he appeared to be when drafted, most of our scoring issues are gone. Look at a guy like Schieffle, nothing great early on, but an intense student of the game that drove himself to improve and now he's dominant. Tkachuk appears to have similar drive. How can we install THAT in all our guys? Perhaps the better question is do you want to live year to year dumpster-diving, hoping for top picks or continually try to improve your team with measured moves when they become available? Just because the team flamed out and now we're left twiddling our fingers the 1st round of the draft doesn't mean the Hamonic, nor Hamilton trades weren't good, purposeful and reasonable moves at the time. It didn't work out as expected and sold to the fans, at least not yet. With this kind of 20:20 seeing and backwards-dreaming you could imagine an Oilers team with Hall-Mcdavid-Draisatl as your first line and Tkachuk-Barzal-RNH as your second, and them winning another 3-4 Cups because of it, and forever kick yourself for what was lost.... but, that's not how it works. You do what you think needs to be done at the time and make the moves that make sense. Sometimes they work out, more often they don't. As an example, it seems the team is on the threshold of moving a top D for a right shot winger. Is that a good move or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 7 hours ago, travel_dude said: Much more impressed with DET's picks. Zadina? My my. Veleno. Top 10. Anyway, just saying that Hamonic was not great in year 1, but we traded for more than a one year NHL player. If Dobson (or anyone later in the 1st) ends up being better than Hamonic, then it's a bad deal. If we win the cup with Hamonic, then..... All of this thinking is relative to your own belief in the potential of each of these guys. Relative to Central Scouting's list then yes... "my, my" but relative to others, let's say Chayka's then Zadina was hugely over-rated. If you do a mental exercise and think back over past drafts at, say, the top5 picks every year, how many of those top5 are still top5 in a re-draft of the same players 5-10 years later after they are fully developed? The answer is ZERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 7 hours ago, conundrumed said: I'd Dobson was BPA, or is that what you mean. SUCKED to see Bouchard go to the Oilers. Actually I was thrilled to see them pick Bouchard over Dobson. Seems like Dobson is more dynamic, a better skater and likely to turn out much better in a couple years. Sure Bouchard was amazing in Junior, but if that's his ceiling they may have just drafted another guy like Reinhart. That seems to be one of their big draft problems... too much emphasis on what is and not enough on what will be. Picking the most mature kids, which at 17 years old can be all over the map. Look at Yakupov, RNH and Puljujarvi as recent examples...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 6 hours ago, JTech780 said: So if we don't get a pick in the 2nd or the 3rd, should we go for high risk high reward picks in the 4th or should we play it a bit safer? I think you have to swing for the fences. Depends on how we define risk I guess. I think the Flames should bet on talent. This would be interesting to see but I think the mandate should be to only draft players that you can see maybe playing in the top 6 at F or top 4 D. If playing it safe means drafting guys with only bottom 6 upside then no I would not be for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 6 hours ago, JTech780 said: Philly probably had the worst 1st round IMO (of teams with 1st round picks), I don't like the Farabee pick, he benefitted a lot from playing with Hughes and Wahlstrom, I do think think he has much upside. O'Brien wasn't a good pick either. He is one of the older players in the draft and played against lesser talent in high school. He is going to Providence so he will learn how to play defense. Looks good on them, what a classless organization. Don't thank the host or compliment anyone just pick two skinny long shots, the beat goes on from the 70's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, cccsberg said: Actually I was thrilled to see them pick Bouchard over Dobson. Seems like Dobson is more dynamic, a better skater and likely to turn out much better in a couple years. Sure Bouchard was amazing in Junior, but if that's his ceiling they may have just drafted another guy like Reinhart. That seems to be one of their big draft problems... too much emphasis on what is and not enough on what will be. Picking the most mature kids, which at 17 years old can be all over the map. Look at Yakupov, RNH and Puljujarvi as recent examples...… Bouchard is and will be a very good defenseman, pains me to say EDM got a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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