Adam Ruzicka

[jjgallow]

From my perspective I don't see an abundance of young top 6ers, 

 

I do think Mangiapane is absolutely a success story.  I don't think he's a top-6 success story on a cup contender.  I can at least understand the arguement for that.

 

In terms of young top 6ers 26 and under I see Gaudreau and Tkachuck, but Gaudreau's only in that category for 3 more weeks.  Monahan if you consider him young in the big picture, yes.

 

More importantly I don't see very many young players set to break into that top 6.

 

Ruzicka is one that I believe could.  Has the potential.  But the only way we'll see it is if he's allowed to develop more in the AHL first.  If coach decides Flames need more size on 4th line we can kiss that top 6 future goodbye

 

You know what other big high scoring prospect the Flames once had?

 

Tim Hunter      Thought I'd drop that bomb in there just for fun lol

[travel_dude]

The problem the Flames have had over recent "generations" is the belief that you need to have a bunch of grinders.

With that, they bring in guys like Bolig or such.

No we don't have a lot of top flight 1st rounder or try to bring a player in as a top 6 potential.

I wish we would stop feeling the need to have guys like Rinaldo, Buddy, etc.

Sure, they might get pushed around more, but a 4th liner could become a topp 6 player.

 

 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

The problem the Flames have had over recent "generations" is the belief that you need to have a bunch of grinders.

With that, they bring in guys like Bolig or such.

No we don't have a lot of top flight 1st rounder or try to bring a player in as a top 6 potential.

I wish we would stop feeling the need to have guys like Rinaldo, Buddy, etc.

Sure, they might get pushed around more, but a 4th liner could become a topp 6 player.

 

Pushing the other team around is a strategy too.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Pushing the other team around is a strategy too.

 

The NHL goes in cycles.

Nobody wants to see a goon team win the cup anymore.

The rules will gradually target "pushing around", so the skill players will eventually win out.

[jjgallow]

I have to agree that it would be best to have the most highly skilled hockey players in the NHL, and we're not quite there yet.

 

With a guy like Ruzicka it is relevant, yes, because the wrong coach could go nuts on trying to get him to reach his "physical presence potential" and make him an ideal 4th liner.

 

I think we're a long way from that going away.  I think it's going to be a risk for a long time.    Maybe the goon part is heading for the exits (which is good), but physical presence is much harder to regulate.     In any case, even if he wasn't 6'4 the Flames and quite frankly Many NHL teams struggle with bringing guys up when they are "ready" for the NHL, rather than when they are "Ready" for their role in the NHL.

 

I expect Ruzicka will spend this year in the AHL.   I have significant and real fears that I'll be wrong.   But if he spends this year in the AHL, he will Most likely be their top scorer and one of the top scorers in the AHL for that matter.   Maybe get some playoff success too.   Loads of ice time, loads of shot practice, loads of playmaking, loads of rushes.   Experience with the pressures of being a difference maker (and successful experience).

 

If he somehow ended up in the NHL he would get none of that.  He'd get 5 minutes a game, be expected to have physical presence, very likely get injured, and maybe get one shot on net every second game if he was lucky playing with guys who do not have his skill (or guys who are trained not to use it).

 

He would be taught to dump the puck in the other end and how to slow down the other team's players.

 

We've seen it more times than is worth listing.   Maybe they won't ask him to fight like they asked his predecessors. But the rest is still very much part of the game.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

I have to agree that it would be best to have the most highly hockey players in the NHL, and we're not quite there yet.

 

With a guy like Ruzicka it is relevant, yes, because the wrong coach could go nuts on trying to get him to reach his "physical presence potential" and make him an ideal 4th liner.

 

I think we're a long way from that going away.  I think it's going to be a risk for a long time.    Maybe the goon part is heading for the exits (which is good), but physical presence is much harder to regulate.     In any case, even if he wasn't 6'4 the Flames and quite frankly Many NHL teams struggle with bringing guys up when they are "ready" for the NHL, rather than when they are "Ready" for their role in the NHL.

 

I expect Ruzicka will spend this year in the AHL.   I have significant and real fears that I'll be wrong.   But if he spends this year in the AHL, he will Most likely be their top scorer and one of the top scorers in the AHL for that matter.   Maybe get some playoff success too.   Loads of ice time, loads of shot practice, loads of playmaking, loads of rushes.   Experience with the pressures of being a difference maker (and successful experience).

 

If he somehow ended up in the NHL he would get none of that.  He'd get 5 minutes a game, be expected to have physical presence, very likely get injured, and maybe get one shot on net every second game if he was lucky playing with guys who do not have his skill (or guys who are trained not to use it).

 

He would be taught to dump the puck in the other end and how to slow down the other team's players.

 

We've seen it more times than is worth listing.   Maybe they won't ask him to fight like they asked his predecessors. But the rest is still very much part of the game.

 

What do most of the top Flames prospects have in common?

They are skilled players.

Tuulola not withstanding, then again he isn't a top prospect and ideal for a heavy line.

 

The way the currently signed roster sits, we have a mix of skill and grit in the top 6.

Tkachuk is both, and to a lesser extent Lindholm.

Mangiapane and Gaudreau are dogs for the puck, especially Mangiapane.

The bottom 6 (signed) include Lucic, Bennett, Dube and Ryan.

That's it.

So, the opportunity to build a skilled 4th line exist now more than ever.

 

If we go after John Anderson, it's a replacement for Bennett most likely.

That leaves 2 openings that could play regularly 10-12 minutes.

You're not building a 4th grinding line in today's NHL, unless you are happy at having 6 minutes played.

 

So, while I agree that the smart thing to do is build up AR in the AHL, the opportunity exists to build a skilled 4th line as well.

Phillips, Gawdin, Ruzicka could (assuming they can play NHL level) fill the bill.

It doesn't excite me to consider Rinaldo, Janko, and Rieder as your default 4th line.

 

So, let's play the devil's lawyer, assuming no other big trades or signings:

JH-Mony-Lindy

Mangiapane-Backlund-Tkachuk

Lucic-Bennett-Dube

Ruzicka-Ryan-Gawdin/Phillips 

 

No line can really be pushed around in today's game.  Phillips might be a stretch to play, but then again his level of compete is very high.

We've graduated 2 guys and they still have a responsible C to feed off. 

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What do most of the top Flames prospects have in common?

They are skilled players.

Tuulola not withstanding, then again he isn't a top prospect and ideal for a heavy line.

 

The way the currently signed roster sits, we have a mix of skill and grit in the top 6.

Tkachuk is both, and to a lesser extent Lindholm.

Mangiapane and Gaudreau are dogs for the puck, especially Mangiapane.

The bottom 6 (signed) include Lucic, Bennett, Dube and Ryan.

That's it.

So, the opportunity to build a skilled 4th line exist now more than ever.

 

If we go after John Anderson, it's a replacement for Bennett most likely.

That leaves 2 openings that could play regularly 10-12 minutes.

You're not building a 4th grinding line in today's NHL, unless you are happy at having 6 minutes played.

 

So, while I agree that the smart thing to do is build up AR in the AHL, the opportunity exists to build a skilled 4th line as well.

Phillips, Gawdin, Ruzicka could (assuming they can play NHL level) fill the bill.

It doesn't excite me to consider Rinaldo, Janko, and Rieder as your default 4th line.

 

So, let's play the devil's lawyer, assuming no other big trades or signings:

JH-Mony-Lindy

Mangiapane-Backlund-Tkachuk

Lucic-Bennett-Dube

Ruzicka-Ryan-Gawdin/Phillips 

 

No line can really be pushed around in today's game.  Phillips might be a stretch to play, but then again his level of compete is very high.

We've graduated 2 guys and they still have a responsible C to feed off. 

I disagree and think there’s still a lot of pushing around in the NHL. The Flames may not get pushed around all of the time but they also have

 to respond when they’re playing a bigger team, to prove they’re not getting pushed around. It’s a lot different than a team that plays big. When they play that way they distract from what they do well. So in essence, the other team takes advantage of the size difference. It’s in their heads! 
 

Gaudreau and Monahan are prime example of it and the reason they need a Lucic. It’s not because they don’t take a beating. If there wasn’t a need for it, my bet is they’d try a different solution than Looch.

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I disagree and think there’s still a lot of pushing around in the NHL. The Flames may not get pushed around all of the time but they also have

 to respond when they’re playing a bigger team, to prove they’re not getting pushed around. It’s a lot different than a team that plays big. When they play that way they distract from what they do well. So in essence, the other team takes advantage of the size difference. It’s in their heads! 
 

Gaudreau and Monahan are prime example of it and the reason they need a Lucic. It’s not because they don’t take a beating. If there wasn’t a need for it, my bet is they’d try a different solution than Looch.

 

How is the lineup I posted mean we will get pushed around any more than having Rinaldo there.

You talk about Lucic as the nuclear deterent, which is fine, but he does not play top line or even close.

Monahan and Lindholm are fully capable of protecting Gaudreau.

The loss last year had nothing to do with being pushed around.

 

Consider my lineup against STL.

Compare that to having Rinaldo.

What is the big difference?

Right, two capable young players with size.

Or even a high level competetive player that can take a hit.

Size only matters when you clutxh and grab.

They have to catch the player first.

 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

How is the lineup I posted mean we will get pushed around any more than having Rinaldo there.

You talk about Lucic as the nuclear deterent, which is fine, but he does not play top line or even close.

Monahan and Lindholm are fully capable of protecting Gaudreau.

The loss last year had nothing to do with being pushed around.

 

Consider my lineup against STL.

Compare that to having Rinaldo.

What is the big difference?

Right, two capable young players with size.

Or even a high level competetive player that can take a hit.

Size only matters when you clutxh and grab.

They have to catch the player first.

 

 

 

Monahan is NOT CAPABLE of protecting Gaudreau. Monahan is not that kind of guy. Until this year he shied away from anything remotely close to contact. Lindholm isn’t exacting will on anyone either. 
 

I do agree that Lucic doesn’t do much because he’s on a different line, but the players themselves have said they felt better with him on the team than not. There’s still a lot of crap that goes on that I don’t think you’re willing to recognize. 
 

i think even just the slashes Johnny takes is due to not sending retribution right when it happens. As soon as he gets whacked someone should be there to pound the guy. Because they’re not going to see any responses it’ll continue to happen 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Monahan is NOT CAPABLE of protecting Gaudreau. Monahan is not that kind of guy. Until this year he shied away from anything remotely close to contact. Lindholm isn’t exacting will on anyone either. 
 

I do agree that Lucic doesn’t do much because he’s on a different line, but the players themselves have said they felt better with him on the team than not. There’s still a lot of crap that goes on that I don’t think you’re willing to recognize. 
 

i think even just the slashes Johnny takes is due to not sending retribution right when it happens. As soon as he gets whacked someone should be there to pound the guy. Because they’re not going to see any responses it’ll continue to happen 

 

Slashes are things he has to get used to.

Take it and drop your stick or coninue as if nothing fazes you..

Get the call.  Or don't..

As much as I disagree with a lot of things the Fan says, they are right.

Play through it in the playoffs.

Get mad and hack back.

Get mad and make the guy look foolish.

Stick up for yourself.

 

The advantage of TV is you see a lot of things that are missed.

Some games are called close to the edge and some aren't.

 

FIghting is not going to get the croud going these days or next season likely.

It's there as a wakeup call.

Lucic is a student of the game, so he has a lot of weight in what he says.

He plays an honest game.

I have zero problem with him.

In fact I would like to see him used where he isn't.

 

As for Lindholm, you don't give him enough credit.

He is a tooth and nails player.

He doesn't get in fights because he is playing a lot op top talent.

But he is out there checking, hacking and staring down players every shift.

Monahan is just one of those guys that doesn't fight.

He doesn;t have to, and if he does it's because someone pissed him off.

There's 5 guys on the ice whenever there is an issue.

Ras doesn;t back down, nor does Gio.

Forbort is another big body.

 

I have no problem with any of the players on the ice.

I fail to see the need for RInaldo unless you want to be able to double shift a player.

He brings it for his 5-8 minutes.

He'll take on anyone, assuming h gets on the ice when that player is there.

 

The Kings and Ducks are examples of teams that are still in the last century.

Oilers, when they decided to be the Orange Crush, started playing worse.

Sure, they weren't doormats, but they have enough talent in the top 6 to win every single night.

Boneheads like Kassian and Khaira are the reason they are still a fringe team.

The top teams in the league have a good balance of skill over size.

Tampa, BOS, CAR all have that attack speed.

STL is built around the D.

 

Anyway, off the soapbox.  We all have our views about building a winner.

We can do it with smaller players, but team defense also has to be there.

I'm pretty high on Zavgorodny, no matter how small he is.

He has Mangiapane written all over him.

Gawdin is just your boring, low event defensive C.

Ruzicka is a mix of speed, griit and power.

He has the tools, just needs to find the right fit.

Phillips is the big question mark for me.

He's as good as Yamamoto, but is not on a shallow team playing top 6.

I could see him doing well with Gawdin or even Ryan.

 

[cross16]

It's interesting the debate has gone this direction given the type of player Ruzicka is. 

 

He is a physical presence out there, but far from a physical player. He plays a very similar game to Monahan in that department. 

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, cross16 said:

It's interesting the debate has gone this direction given the type of player Ruzicka is. 

 

He is a physical presence out there, but far from a physical player. He plays a very similar game to Monahan in that department. 

The rant may have gone off the rails a bit, but I stick with the statement that having Ruzicka on the 4th line mixed with other skill players is not a waste of talent.

Not saying he is ready, just that a future line with those players could be a good skill line.

It's really hard to project players at the NHL level based on AHL play.

Ruzicka's scouting report did have him playing physical, leaning more towards a power forward than a pug.

I doubt he will stick on the playoff 31 list.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

The rant may have gone off the rails a bit, but I stick with the statement that having Ruzicka on the 4th line mixed with other skill players is not a waste of talent.

Not saying he is ready, just that a future line with those players could be a good skill line.

It's really hard to project players at the NHL level based on AHL play.

Ruzicka's scouting report did have him playing physical, leaning more towards a power forward than a pug.

I doubt he will stick on the playoff 31 list.

 

100% but the Flames have also made no indication this the plan so I'm not sure why this is such a fear. I think they've been pretty clear that this invitation to the camp was to dangle the carrot, give him some experience and reward him for some nice progress. I don't think it's an indication they plan to have him in NHL based on what i've heard. 

 

Ruzicka is big and strong for sure, but more in terms of how he protects the puck. When he's on his game, consistency still a bit of an issue, he is a load to defend because he'll protect the puck so well using both his size and reach but if the image is of him throwing big hits or constantly finishing checks then I would say that's not a common style of game for him. Depends on your definition of power forward I guess, but for me the mean they initiate contact or are the aggressor and I don't view that as part of Ruzicka's game which Is why I throw out the Monahan comparison. 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

100% but the Flames have also made no indication this the plan so I'm not sure why this is such a fear. I think they've been pretty clear that this invitation to the camp was to dangle the carrot, give him some experience and reward him for some nice progress. I don't think it's an indication they plan to have him in NHL based on what i've heard. 

 

Ruzicka is big and strong for sure, but more in terms of how he protects the puck. When he's on his game, consistency still a bit of an issue, he is a load to defend because he'll protect the puck so well using both his size and reach but if the image is of him throwing big hits or constantly finishing checks then I would say that's not a common style of game for him. Depends on your definition of power forward I guess, but for me the mean they initiate contact or are the aggressor and I don't view that as part of Ruzicka's game which Is why I throw out the Monahan comparison. 

 

Power forward in terms of being a big body that holds the puck while going through defense.  I would describe Draisaitl in that same mold.  Neither is an aggressor.

That's kinda what makes Draisaitl effective.  Not held up when skating in.  Able to go through player with the puck.  Yeah, Ruzicka wasn't particularly consistent to start his pro career, but he finished strong.  CGY staff have been quick to point out he looks like an entirely different player than a year ago, in a good way.

 

As far as the future, I don't see a downside to bringing him in to play 4th line with other skill players.  JJ was suggesting this would turn him into a grinder, which I don't agree with.

Sure, it would be preferable to have him play top 6, but getting there is part of the job.  It's one strategy to have a 4th line composed of grinders or strictly defensive players, but I tend to go more towards having 4 capable scoring lines that can play well without the puck.  A strong campaign in Stockton, combined with the right opportunity due to injury might give him a chance in the top 6.  Players like Mangiapane are efficient scoring in less minutes.  If he played 4th line minutes, I would hope he would too.

[cross16]

I don't really like labeling lines but I think you have to put young players in situations that give them a chance to succeed. For me, and in particular with Ruzicka, that would mean offensive zone opportunities, opportunity to earn PP time, play with some skilled players and at least be playing 10 mins a night or more. If you can accomplish all of this and the player winds up on the "4th line" as it's called than that is fine but most 4th lines tend to be thrown together and after thoughts and that's where you are harming the player IMO. If that's the situation then I don't really care who they play with because the situations won't match what is best for the player. 

 

Mangiapane provides a good example of what i'm talking about. His first call up, 10 games 2 seasons ago is where the Flames got it wrong. He got buried with so/so players and put in poor situations. I was not a fan of how that first season but last year they found a way to get him some better opportunities by putting him with Ryan and gave him a chance to play up the lineup. The 2nd example is great but the first was frustrating. 

 

I also think this conversation is premature because we are talking about a player who had about a 1/4 of a successful season. I'm not putting down Ruzicka as i'm really happy in the growth that he has shown but I dont' even consider him an NHL option at this point. He has more to prove at the AHL and i think the Flames agree. i don't see this conversation taking place until he's shown more consistency in the AHL. 

 

 

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I don't really like labeling lines but I think you have to put young players in situations that give them a chance to succeed. For me, and in particular with Ruzicka, that would mean offensive zone opportunities, opportunity to earn PP time, play with some skilled players and at least be playing 10 mins a night or more. If you can accomplish all of this and the player winds up on the "4th line" as it's called than that is fine but most 4th lines tend to be thrown together and after thoughts and that's where you are harming the player IMO. If that's the situation then I don't really care who they play with because the situations won't match what is best for the player. 

 

Mangiapane provides a good example of what i'm talking about. His first call up, 10 games 2 seasons ago is where the Flames got it wrong. He got buried with so/so players and put in poor situations. I was not a fan of how that first season but last year they found a way to get him some better opportunities by putting him with Ryan and gave him a chance to play up the lineup. The 2nd example is great but the first was frustrating. 

 

I also think this conversation is premature because we are talking about a player who had about a 1/4 of a successful season. I'm not putting down Ruzicka as i'm really happy in the growth that he has shown but I dont' even consider him an NHL option at this point. He has more to prove at the AHL and i think the Flames agree. i don't see this conversation taking place until he's shown more consistency in the AHL. 

 

 

 

my guess is it’s up to him what he does next. I am with you on the 4th line or the thrown together line tends to get less time and as a young player I prefer they get time to maintain skills. I feel we see a decimated Bennett due to him not getting ice and situations to maintain his skills. I think where the convo got off the rails is that size and grit and punishing hitting hockey is going away and a thing of the past. And I think clearly it’s not, and maybe it’s in new ways but I feel size will always be a factor in the NHL. May not be in a season, but in a long playoff it will be. I think even if a guy is large and doesn’t play physical it’s better than being small and not. The way players lean Their bodies on opponents to defend these days is akin to hooking and grabbing. Instead of using sticks and arms to hold, they lean shoulders in. Plus I feel the Flames get off of their game when they decide to play a hitting brand because it is a factor in some games. They have to prove they can play that way. 
 

like you say, Ruzicka is a year or two away. It is what he does with his talents and consistency or commitment that will get him into the NHL. A lot of players have what it takes skill wise, but don’t have the commitment to continue growing.

[travel_dude]

Where I see it differently is we already have small players dominating in the league.

They do it becuae they developed the ability to escape or are dogs on bones without the puck.

No amount of size is going to show up those players.

Sure, you can hack and hold Gaudreau, where you can catch him.

He's thrived because he draws players in and opens up the ice for others.

So there is room for players like that.

And then you have Mangiapane, who goes to the firty areas and comes out with the puck.

They find the quiet area to shoot from or have a quick release to be able to get a scoring chance from a millisecond opening.

 

Small players learn the skills at an early age that bigger guys do not need to.  Yet.

I mean players like Phillips who is 5'7" and a buck 50 at best thrive in the AHL.

The AHL is not just juniors coming inti their own, but bigger guys and vets.

Not a place for the timid.

Yes, not every player that plays well in the AHL can make that move, but it's a strong sign.

The hert of the player determines it.

 

It sounds funny, but compare Lavoie to Pelletier.

Big guy with some ethic issues vs a stong ethic and drive.

Who would pick regardless of positions you have that fit their skills.

 

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Where I see it differently is we already have small players dominating in the league.

They do it becuae they developed the ability to escape or are dogs on bones without the puck.

No amount of size is going to show up those players.

Sure, you can hack and hold Gaudreau, where you can catch him.

He's thrived because he draws players in and opens up the ice for others.

So there is room for players like that.

And then you have Mangiapane, who goes to the firty areas (@travel_dude, I READ THIS AS FLIRTY AREAS 😂🤣😂🤣) and comes out with the puck.

They find the quiet area to shoot from or have a quick release to be able to get a scoring chance from a millisecond opening.

 

Small players learn the skills at an early age that bigger guys do not need to.  Yet.

I mean players like Phillips who is 5'7" and a buck 50 at best thrive in the AHL.

The AHL is not just juniors coming inti their own, but bigger guys and vets.

Not a place for the timid.

Yes, not every player that plays well in the AHL can make that move, but it's a strong sign.

The hert of the player determines it.

 

It sounds funny, but compare Lavoie to Pelletier.

Big guy with some ethic issues vs a stong ethic and drive.

Who would pick regardless of positions you have that fit their skills.

 

 

I haven’t seen either of them play... but I am just saying, we seem to be building a really small team and it’s great that these guys are developing into NHL players. 
 

it’s like JJ said, he’d draft them all every time but I don’t know if he’d build his team with them after they develop. My guess is he’d use them as trade currency like Gaudreau. 
 

I just want Ruzicka to get the playing time. Keep him in the AHL until he can no longer benefit from being there. If he’s a Dube and gets the nod next year that’s great! But I still think one extra year wouldn’t have hurt Dube either. But I do think he’s a good one. I am hoping that Ruzicka can follow that path.

 

would he compare to Kapanen? Kapanen was in the AHL for awhile too. I think Kap has the better upside from the get go. But I remember when we drafted Ruzicka the knock was just that he had consistency issues and only played when he wanted to. Sounds a lot like Andersson to me.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I haven’t seen either of them play... but I am just saying, we seem to be building a really small team and it’s great that these guys are developing into NHL players. 
 

it’s like JJ said, he’d draft them all every time but I don’t know if he’d build his team with them after they develop. My guess is he’d use them as trade currency like Gaudreau. 
 

I just want Ruzicka to get the playing time. Keep him in the AHL until he can no longer benefit from being there. If he’s a Dube and gets the nod next year that’s great! But I still think one extra year wouldn’t have hurt Dube either. But I do think he’s a good one. I am hoping that Ruzicka can follow that path.

 

would he compare to Kapanen? Kapanen was in the AHL for awhile too. I think Kap has the better upside from the get go. But I remember when we drafted Ruzicka the knock was just that he had consistency issues and only played when he wanted to. Sounds a lot like Andersson to me.

 

Ruzicka was rate mid 60's in his draft year.

He was a boom/bust type picks for that early, but 4th round is a win.

Yes, he had consistency issues, but that evaporated when he went to Sudbury.

It ook him some time to figure out how to play in the AHL.

Can't say I heard that about Ras; his weight training was more the issue I heard about.

 

Not every player we draft will ever play for us, but that doesn't mean they won't have NHL careers.

But, the only way we get sufficient value is for those player to be on the NHL team.

By the time Pelletier makes the NHL, we could be a completely different team.

I can't say we are building a small team though.

There's no real evidence of that.

We have a couple of smaller players, but most are average to bigger.

Ryan and Dube and Mangiapane are average.

Stand them up next to Kapanen and there's little difference.

Most of our prospects are average size or bigger.

Couple of exceptions in Phillips, Zav and Pelletier.

Only Pelletier is a 1st rounder, and the others will be NHL players by pure will and skill.

 

[jjgallow]

I will say this....

 

I never thought this debate would get legs.

 

Love the controversy lol.

 

But worried  we don't have anything better in our pipeline to argue about

[travel_dude]

49 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

I will say this....

 

I never thought this debate would get legs.

 

Love the controversy lol.

 

But worried  we don't have anything better in our pipeline to argue about

 

We can argue about it if you like.

We have prospects, but not as many choices as a lot of teams.

That's fine.

Most never really get a shot.

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We can argue about it if you like.

We have prospects, but not as many choices as a lot of teams.

That's fine.

Most never really get a shot.

 

I would absolutely love to argue about it lol.

 

I hate having little or no prospects.   But there is one redeeming quality about it....it's a fast-track to a rebuild

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I would absolutely love to argue about it lol.

 

I hate having little or no prospects.   But there is one redeeming quality about it....it's a fast-track to a rebuild

I still don’t trust the Flames to do a rebuild right. They tend to spend to the cap thinking they’re filling needs (Brouwer) and a player or two away from being competitive. 
 

maybe we win the lottery this year!

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I still don’t trust the Flames to do a rebuild right. They tend to spend to the cap thinking they’re filling needs (Brouwer) and a player or two away from being competitive. 
 

maybe we win the lottery this year!

 

The last rebuild was hampered by Feaster and co.

The trades of JBow and Iggy we pointless.

Kipper walked with a year left.

 

As far as what they did after BT showed up....

Trade for and sign some beef to offset the younger players taking a big role.

Sign has been goalies because we didn't have any transition plan in nets.

The roster was full of Feaster overpays, which made replacing pasrts of the core much harder.

They made trades that didn't completely empty the drafts.

I don't think you can say we would have rebuilt better without tanking.

Went to the playoffs the year McDavid was drafted.

Traded for a couple of D-men that were coming off good careers or were early enoug in to be great.

 

Agree to disagree.  

We could have kept the pick that NY used to select a D-man.

Or the one that BOS picked a nothing player with.

Then again, we would't have two key pieces signed for less than par.

Or a D-man that gave a crap and dished out for his mates.

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The last rebuild was hampered by Feaster and co.

The trades of JBow and Iggy we pointless.

Kipper walked with a year left.

 

I dunno, most of the smaller player skill you're talking about was Orchestrated by Feaster.

 

I agree that the Jbow and Iggy trades were pointless, but only because it happened far too late, and in the case of Kipper not at all.  they should have happened under Sutter and while I have a lot of respect for Sutter that was on him for holding on too long.  Along with aweful goon drafting.     Fantastic coach though.

 

Don't get me wrong I am not a Feaster supporter, but I"m not a BT supporter either.  Quite honestly I think bot of them were given very poor direction from higher up.