2nd Rd WCSF Oilers vs Ducks

[Flyerfan52]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

He will have to work more than magic. There are going to be a lot of players asking "Where's my money man!?", and the price tags increase every game they win. How much will Draisaitl, McDavid, Sleepychevy, Nurse, and even Talbot going to demand given Eberle and RNH earn $6 million and do less than construction flag workers? 

 

ETA: Why do they pay 'fbomb over $4 million?

@ 4.167 he's worth it. I'd gladly take him @ that on the Flames or Jets (who need a LD).

[rickross]

On May 9, 2017 at 1:01 AM, travel_dude said:

Whoop de ding dong.  The Sharks decimated the Oil in a game in round one.  What does that prove in one game?

The plateau for the Olers happened on game 2.  They managed a blowout in one game the entire series to force a game 7.  I seem to recall beating the Ducks something like 8-3, which did exactly nothing for us later.

 

You sound like you are trying to convince people that the Oilers are a great team.  They are lucky that the Ducks crapped the bed in 3 games.  

 

Never once did I call them a "great team" but I can acknowledge when a team is playing good hockey...even if I dislike the team. You're the same guy that wrote them off during the Sharks series..think u compared the series to boys vs men. I'm no Oiler fan but I'm not ignorant to the fact they're having playoff success. 

 

If you want to compare, u can include the Flames 8-3 win over the Ducks this season but that carries no weight as it was our only win against the Ducks all year. Annoyingly the Oilers did win their season series against the Ducks and could win the playoff series against them. Stating so doesn't mean I'm looking to convince anyone they're a great team but I'm not blind to the fact that they're playing strong hockey right now. 

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

3 hours ago, rickross said:

Never once did I call them a "great team" but I can acknowledge when a team is playing good hockey...even if I dislike the team. You're the same guy that wrote them off during the Sharks series..think u compared the series to boys vs men. I'm no Oiler fan but I'm not ignorant to the fact they're having playoff success. 

 

If you want to compare, u can include the Flames 8-3 win over the Ducks this season but that carries no weight as it was our only win against the Ducks all year. Annoyingly the Oilers did win their season series against the Ducks and could win the playoff series against them. Stating so doesn't mean I'm looking to convince anyone they're a great team but I'm not blind to the fact that they're playing strong hockey right now. 

 

 

In fairness to TD, I think that the Sharks would have been a much greater rival if they were healthier. I am still trying to figure out how Thornton's leg stayed on his body. I am not sure that Edmonton played that well as much as San Jose played terribly. This really was not their year. 

 

Edmonton has considerable talent, no doubt about it. They actually are "great" in terms of talent, and they also have a bit of chemistry. I suspect that most people on the board would agree with that statement. It would be difficult to win that many lotteries and tank a few times and not have great talent. What is truly amazing is that it has taken them so long to see any measure of success. If they win tonight, I will grant you that they are playing well. If they lose, well, then they were really not much better than the Flames as they lost to the same team. They just took the series further. I would certainly not put them in the same boat as Ottawa right now. I would say that Ottawa is a great team with good, not excellent, talent. Edmonton has great talent and is a good team. Right now, they are not very good or excellent, but they are above average.

 

I have always liked Erik Karlsson, but I would consider him a total beast at this point. I fail to think of an Oiler that comes close to him.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

Edmonton has considerable talent, no doubt about it. They actually are "great" in terms of talent, and they also have a bit of chemistry. I suspect that most people on the board would agree with that statement. It would be difficult to win that many lotteries and tank a few times and not have great talent. What is truly amazing is that it has taken them so long to see any measure of success. If they win tonight, I will grant you that they are playing well. If they lose, well, then they were really not much better than the Flames as they lost to the same team. They just took the series further. I would certainly not put them in the same boat as Ottawa right now. I would say that Ottawa is a great team with good, not excellent, talent. Edmonton has great talent and is a good team. Right now, they are not very good or excellent, but they are above average.

 

I would say that EDM is a team with some great players; McDavid, Draisaitl, Talbot and two really good d-men.  They have some complimentary players that are having good playoffs - Letestu, Kassian.  And then they have players filling up the lineup.  Looch, Eberle, Nuge, Caggula, Deharnais, Slepy, etc that have had maybe one good game each.  

 

The Ducks are suffering from bad goaltending this series.  We saw a bit of it in the 1st round, but nothing like this.  They have dominated in the faceoff circle and the shots, but have been undone by poor starts and costly penalties.  Home ice has not been an advantage for either team, so it's a crap shoot who wins.  

[conundrumed]

Oooh the Oilers are out, I'm sooo sad, lol.

Coulda woulda shoulda...bugger off.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Oooh the Oilers are out, I'm sooo sad, lol.

Coulda woulda shoulda...bugger off.

 

Time to pack up all that orange crap.  I hated the Ducks in 14/15 because of the sea of orange in Anaheim.  Now we had to endure it with EDM.  Yuck.  Not sure what orange has to do with Alberta or Edmonton.  It's not even a copper color.  I get the Ducks, considering they play in Orange County.

 

 

[The_People1]

The oilers tried to sit on a 1 goal lead for 2 periods, literally went into defense mode since they scored the first goal.  Then when the ducks took the lead, the oilers couldn't turn on the offense because they were playing so conservatively earlier.

 

Give credit to the ducks, they don't care what the score is, they believe they can mount a comeback and are never discouraged.

[rocketdoctor]

Yessssss!  Thank goodness for that.

 

No more Oiler fans carping on.  Do not like either team but my preference was for a ducks win.

 

 

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

Wonder how much Draisaitl will get this off-season and if EDM can unload any of the 6m band? I know Oil fans and others want to look at this as a stepping stone and when you miss the playoffs for a decade you are welcome to it but with the salary cap, every missed opportunity is just that.

 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION said:

Wonder how much Draisaitl will get this off-season and if EDM can unload any of the 6m band? I know Oil fans and others want to look at this as a stepping stone and when you miss the playoffs for a decade you are welcome to it but with the salary cap, every missed opportunity is just that.

 

 

I think Draisaitl will get Monahan money.

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think Draisaitl will get Monahan money.

 

I agree, he'll be in that boat. Maybe a little more but I think his number is somewhere in the 6.5 to 6.75 range. Maybe 7mill if they want term. 

 

Cap is going to be difficult for the OIlers but they are not in that bad of shape either. 22 million in cap space with 17 guys signed and only Drasaitl as the tough negotiation. Sure sounds like they plan on moving on from Eberle and I think Puljujarvi steps in next year as well. Oscar Klefbom really took a step forwrad this year and is looking like a top 3 blueliner and Nurse started to really come on in the playoffs. Still some inconsistencies there but the talent is starting to to come through and give the Oilers a pretty deep blueline. 

 

Oilers are going to be good for a while. McDavid and his 10-12 milion he gets next year will take a huge chunk, but they finally have some depth they havn't had in a while. If Chiarelli can do a better job handling the cap here than he did in Boston, they will be very good for a number of years. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree, he'll be in that boat. Maybe a little more but I think his number is somewhere in the 6.5 to 6.75 range. Maybe 7mill if they want term. 

 

Cap is going to be difficult for the OIlers but they are not in that bad of shape either. 22 million in cap space with 17 guys signed and only Drasaitl as the tough negotiation. Sure sounds like they plan on moving on from Eberle and I think Puljujarvi steps in next year as well. Oscar Klefbom really took a step forwrad this year and is looking like a top 3 blueliner and Nurse started to really come on in the playoffs. Still some inconsistencies there but the talent is starting to to come through and give the Oilers a pretty deep blueline. 

 

Oilers are going to be good for a while. McDavid and his 10-12 milion he gets next year will take a huge chunk, but they finally have some depth they havn't had in a while. If Chiarelli can do a better job handling the cap here than he did in Boston, they will be very good for a number of years. 

 

Eberle is a tough sell.  His value fell this past year and he did nothing in the playoffs to suggest he is worth the $6m.  It's going to be hard for them to find a taker for that contract this summer.  Maybe Vegas.  They aren't going to get nearly what Hall brought back.  I like his skill set, but not so much his work ethic.  If you could get him to give 100% every game, he would be a fit here.

Top end RW.  Shooter.  

 

The Oilers still need to round out the top 4D.  Larsson and Klefbom a great start.  Nurse as a 5/6 guy. Benning as a 5/6 guy.  Sekera is ok, but they need a replacement for Russell.  That's going to cost a bit.  Not going to get one for Eberle.  Nuge might do that, but he is more valuable than Eberle to them.

 

Somebody is going to OS the Oilers this summer.  Probably next summer too.  Only impact will be against the cap; they will match.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree, he'll be in that boat. Maybe a little more but I think his number is somewhere in the 6.5 to 6.75 range. Maybe 7mill if they want term. 

 

Cap is going to be difficult for the OIlers but they are not in that bad of shape either. 22 million in cap space with 17 guys signed and only Drasaitl as the tough negotiation. Sure sounds like they plan on moving on from Eberle and I think Puljujarvi steps in next year as well. Oscar Klefbom really took a step forwrad this year and is looking like a top 3 blueliner and Nurse started to really come on in the playoffs. Still some inconsistencies there but the talent is starting to to come through and give the Oilers a pretty deep blueline. 

 

Oilers are going to be good for a while. McDavid and his 10-12 milion he gets next year will take a huge chunk, but they finally have some depth they havn't had in a while. If Chiarelli can do a better job handling the cap here than he did in Boston, they will be very good for a number of years. 

 

Ya agreed, Oilers will be a good team.  Not giving them the "great" label yet but they are certainly a shoe-in for the playoffs again.

 

If Pulvujarvi ever becomes the next "Jarri Kurri" then look out.  Eberle can go and they won't miss a beat.  Lots of teams are looking for a RHS RW so Eberle is certainly tradable even at 6-mil... May have to settle for a 3 round pick but there will be a price that allows the oilers too let Eberle go and not have to retain a single dollar... Unlike Benoit Pouliot who is total dead weight.

 

Some hidden gems in Letestu, Cagguila, and Slepyshev.  These guys will go a long way to help the oilers compete, much like Ferland, Bouma, and Versteeg gave the Flames this season.

[cross16]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya agreed, Oilers will be a good team.  Not giving them the "great" label yet but they are certainly a shoe-in for the playoffs again.

 

That's fair. For them to be great I think both Puljujarvi and Nurse have to become the players they were touted to be as draft picks and Drasaitl has to prove he can play a full season at this level without McDavid. Those things happens, they'll win a cup in the next 3-4 years without question IMO. 

 

I happen to agree that someone will take Eberle at his full ticket or with a small amount of money retained. has his knocks against him for sure but he is still a consistent point producer with a rare skill set and because I think Puljujarvi will step in next year and give you a good chunk of what you are losing with Eberle the return for him won't really matter. They need some more depth and downside for them is outside of Puljujarvi their system is pretty shallow which is why I think they could, and should be, very aggressive next year trying to make a run at it while McDavid is cheap. Going to be tough paying for depth when McDavid is making 10-12 million a year. 

 

Edit: For the record and not to be lumped in as an Oiler fan I think the Flames future is just as bright. 2 teams were very similar this year and Edm had alot more go right for them. Flames can solve their goaltending they are right there. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

That's fair. For them to be great I think both Puljujarvi and Nurse have to become the players they were touted to be as draft picks and Drasaitl has to prove he can play a full season at this level without McDavid. Those things happens, they'll win a cup in the next 3-4 years without question IMO. 

 

I happen to agree that someone will take Eberle at his full ticket or with a small amount of money retained. has his knocks against him for sure but he is still a consistent point producer with a rare skill set and because I think Puljujarvi will step in next year and give you a good chunk of what you are losing with Eberle the return for him won't really matter. They need some more depth and downside for them is outside of Puljujarvi their system is pretty shallow which is why I think they could, and should be, very aggressive next year trying to make a run at it while McDavid is cheap. Going to be tough paying for depth when McDavid is making 10-12 million a year. 

 

Ya if McDavid can carry his own line like Crosby with Kunitz and Dupius, and then Draisaitl can pull a Malkin centering the second line... Maybe with the help of Puljujarvi on his wing...

 

RNH can potentially give them what Backlund gave the Flames, "veteran" defensive shut down 3rd line Center... Or LW on Draisaitl't line.

 

Dumping RNH and Eberle frees up 12-mil and both have trade value even at their cap his... Unlike Lucic and Pouliot.

 

I didn't feel Nurse stepped up at all during the playoffs and felt he was a weak spot on the oilers with multiple turnovers and average decision making.  Most likely he will pan out long term as a second pair guy.  He's not even close to a Ristolainen or Werenski level of talent which he was originally thought to be.  I think he leaves the oilers searching for their #1 guy still.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya if McDavid can carry his own line like Crosby with Kunitz and Dupius, and then Draisaitl can pull a Malkin centering the second line... Maybe with the help of Puljujarvi on his wing...

 

RNH can potentially give them what Backlund gave the Flames, "veteran" defensive shut down 3rd line Center... Or LW on Draisaitl't line.

 

Dumping RNH and Eberle frees up 12-mil and both have trade value even at their cap his... Unlike Lucic and Pouliot.

 

I didn't feel Nurse stepped up at all during the playoffs and felt he was a weak spot on the oilers with multiple turnovers and average decision making.  Most likely he will pan out long term as a second pair guy.  He's not even close to a Ristolainen or Werenski level of talent which he was originally thought to be.  I think he leaves the oilers searching for their #1 guy still.

 

I think this year was a lightning in a bottle year for them.  Russell giving them a 4th D they needed to get to the playoffs.  Complementary players for McDavid and Draisaitl.

Lucic and Eberle having runs to finish the season.  Good PP for most of the year.  Talbot stealing a lot of games.

 

The hardest thing to do is move forward.  The farm is not well stocked and they have decisions to make this summer.  The depth they used in the playoffs is pretty much all they have.  Puljujarvi did not takes any steps forward this year in the AHL, so I don't think he is ready for the NHL next season.  Nowhere near a bust, but he is going to take some time.  If they can make smart trades and value signings, they will be well positioned to stay in playoff contention.

 

Like the Flames, if they don't improve the lineup, they will fall off a bit.  You can't go through many seasons giving up that many shots in games and expect to win as many games.       

[The_People1]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think this year was a lightning in a bottle year for them.  Russell giving them a 4th D they needed to get to the playoffs.  Complementary players for McDavid and Draisaitl.

Lucic and Eberle having runs to finish the season.  Good PP for most of the year.  Talbot stealing a lot of games.

 

The hardest thing to do is move forward.  The farm is not well stocked and they have decisions to make this summer.  The depth they used in the playoffs is pretty much all they have.  Puljujarvi did not takes any steps forward this year in the AHL, so I don't think he is ready for the NHL next season.  Nowhere near a bust, but he is going to take some time.  If they can make smart trades and value signings, they will be well positioned to stay in playoff contention.

 

Like the Flames, if they don't improve the lineup, they will fall off a bit.  You can't go through many seasons giving up that many shots in games and expect to win as many games.       

 

The division is wide open next season.

 

LV, Arizona, and Vancouver are likely out of it before it even began.  LA "should" struggle again but big changes with GM and coach so they are question mark.  SJ might lose Thornton and Marleau without adequate replacement.

 

We can question whether the Oilers will be elite but we shouldn't question whether they will make the playoffs, certainly shouldn't take a step back much.

[DirtyDeeds]

On 5/10/2017 at 1:01 PM, Cowtownguy said:

....

 

I have always liked Erik Karlsson, but I would consider him a total beast at this point. I fail to think of an Oiler that comes close to him.

Leon Draisaitl has been the Oilers beast if you must use that term/handle.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

The division is wide open next season.

 

LV, Arizona, and Vancouver are likely out of it before it even began.  LA "should" struggle again but big changes with GM and coach so they are question mark.  SJ might lose Thornton and Marleau without adequate replacement.

 

We can question whether the Oilers will be elite but we shouldn't question whether they will make the playoffs, certainly shouldn't take a step back much.

 

In the Pacific, there are 4 teams that are close to each other; CGY, ANA, SJS, and EDM.  Somebody has to be in the Wild Card race.  It wouldn't take that much for any of those teams to end up battling for 7th and 8th.  OTL and SO wins can end up being just losses.  I'm not trying to DIS the Oilers, just stating that misstep is as likely as continued progression.  Has happened to some teams recently.

[Cowtownguy]

16 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

In the Pacific, there are 4 teams that are close to each other; CGY, ANA, SJS, and EDM.  Somebody has to be in the Wild Card race.  It wouldn't take that much for any of those teams to end up battling for 7th and 8th.  OTL and SO wins can end up being just losses.  I'm not trying to DIS the Oilers, just stating that misstep is as likely as continued progression.  Has happened to some teams recently.

I wonder how Edmonton will play if/when Talbot ever gets injured for a significant amount of time. The effects of such an injury could be devastating for the team.

[Flyerfan52]

41 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I wonder how Edmonton will play if/when Talbot ever gets injured for a significant amount of time. The effects of such an injury could be devastating for the team.

That should be their biggest fear. Unless they sign a dang good backup it hurts more than McDavid out for a while.

Talbot played 86 (73 & 13) this year so you have to worry about burnout as well.

[Cowtownguy]

20 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

That should be their biggest fear. Unless they sign a dang good backup it hurts more than McDavid out for a while.

Talbot played 86 (73 & 13) this year so you have to worry about burnout as well.

I would be impressed with what Edmonton has accomplished had they not benefitted and possibly manipulated the draft. Time will tell if getting all of that talent in such a short period of time will burn them in the long run given the salary cap. If they are smart about it, they will make trades earlier (while value is high before the end of a contract) and exchange high priced players for role players, picks, and prospects. I am not convinced that Chia is the guy to do that. 

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

I would be impressed with what Edmonton has accomplished had they not benefitted and possibly manipulated the draft. Time will tell if getting all of that talent in such a short period of time will burn them in the long run given the salary cap. If they are smart about it, they will make trades earlier (while value is high before the end of a contract) and exchange high priced players for role players, picks, and prospects. I am not convinced that Chia is the guy to do that. 

Right now there are 3 mentioned as on the block. Eberle @ $6 x 2, Pouliout @ $4 x 2 & to a lesser degree RNH @ $6 x4. None have proven that worth so will be a hard sell without retention & a smallish return. Lucic's contract is a tad for now but is structured to be trade proof.

This year Draisaitl needs a raise as does Kassian. Next year McDavid & Nurse with Talbot the next.

Winning leads to higher asks & as RFAs all are potentially getting an OS. Maybe not much higher than the Oilers expected to spend but a million here & another there cuts into available $s under a cap system.

 

Chia & his predecessor Lowe aren't loved in the GM brotherhood so can't count on favors owed. Trades will be harder to make & the hands off approach seemingly applied to RFA OSs will be overlooked.

To replace what they can't afford to re-sign there better be a dang good pipeline in place but there doesn't look to be that.

A few top dogs with a weak cast surrounding them is as weak as the smaller links. Especially with a glaring need for a backup goalie that does more than wear the hat.

Chicago stayed strong by trading very good players on decent contracts. The only value contracts (besides the ELCs) Edmonton has are Talbot & their top 3 D.

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Next year McDavid & Nurse

 Don't forget about Maroon.  $2.1m actual this year ($500k retained by ducks).

He won't go for chump change after this past year (and likely plays with McDavid again).  Count at least $4m next contract.

[DirtyDeeds]

17 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I would be impressed with what Edmonton has accomplished had they not benefitted and possibly manipulated the draft. Time will tell if getting all of that talent in such a short period of time will burn them in the long run given the salary cap. If they are smart about it, they will make trades earlier (while value is high before the end of a contract) and exchange high priced players for role players, picks, and prospects. I am not convinced that Chia is the guy to do that. 

They have been shopping RHN and Eberle for a few years now. They would be fine with the cap if they could get rid of that 12m /per yr. They have not been able to find a dance partner yet however...

 

Chia has had his problems with over cap issues that cost the Bruins. He sat there defiant until it hurt that team.