So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[kehatch]

54 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Your point ? or are you agreeing with me for once ?

 

Neither really.  Cross did a good job of expanding the point.  

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

He has cracked 30 points once and is definitely more defensive minded. That said, your right that he can play in all three zones. 

 

I think the days of a true defensive zone D man are over, at least in the top 4. You need to add to the five man unit in the offensive zone and you need to play the transition game. Hamonic does those things. Fortunately so do all of our D signed for next season. 

 

 

He he may not be like Giordano now, but Gio's game evolved as he aged. Giordano hasn't always been the player we've seen the past 3-4 years. 

 

Hamonic isn't exactly the same now, but he is still young enough to develop more. Gio developing recently into what he is now, was a later in his career thing.

 

i am happy to have that versatility in the D. Beyond the first pair we were to offensive on D. I hope Hamonic can stabilize it, along with Stone.

[travel_dude]

53 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Hamonic can jump up into the rush but he isn't going to lead the rush while Gio is at his best leading the rush and carrying the puck. Hamonic is far more likely to pass it up to forwards and let them do the work or allow his D partner to rush it than he is to take it himself. Different style than Gio IMO and should fit well with Brodie for that reason. 

 

Called him a stay-at-home guy, but I agree with your assessment of Hamonic.  That's one of the reasons why I am so high on him.  I suspect he will be a regular on the PK.

[cross16]

27 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

He he may not be like Giordano now, but Gio's game evolved as he aged. Giordano hasn't always been the player we've seen the past 3-4 years. 

 

Hamonic isn't exactly the same now, but he is still young enough to develop more. Gio developing recently into what he is now, was a later in his career thing.

 

i am happy to have that versatility in the D. Beyond the first pair we were to offensive on D. I hope Hamonic can stabilize it, along with Stone.

 

That is a bit misleading though because Gio was so late getting started, 27, versus Hamonic who at the same age already has 6 years under his belt. It's very unlikely you would see a substantial change in Hamonic's game after this amount of time, especially given what he's done has worked just fine for him. 

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That is a bit misleading though because Gio was so late getting started, 27, versus Hamonic who at the same age already has 6 years under his belt. It's very unlikely you would see a substantial change in Hamonic's game after this amount of time, especially given what he's done has worked just fine for him. 

 

That depends on his drive to improve. Phaneuf's downfall was that he felt that what he did was enough.

[robrob74]

Is it because Giordano had to keep reinventing himself and grow into his ability?

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Is it because Giordano had to keep reinventing himself and grow into his ability?

Gio had a fair bit of latitude to rush when JBo was his RD partner.

I'm a firm believer that JBo helped (read: bailed out) Gio a ton. Gio had some real facepalms in that era, but JBo recovered a lot of them.

I hope and believe Hamonic will be the JBo tonic for Brodie.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Gio had a fair bit of latitude to rush when JBo was his RD partner.

I'm a firm believer that JBo helped (read: bailed out) Gio a ton. Gio had some real facepalms in that era, but JBo recovered a lot of them.

I hope and believe Hamonic will be the JBo tonic for Brodie.

 

JBow was a mouse compared to the game Hamonic plays.  

[Flyerfan52]

Look, I know a lot of you are hung up on points but Hamonic is what he is. We traded for 1 of the best defensive defensemen in the league. He'll chip in a few points but his presence will allow his partner (I'll let the who be determined)  on the pairing to jump into the play rather than worry about a lesser 1 back there not being able to handle it.

I was thinking about the way JBo had his worst years of offensive stats while with the Flames (& fans being POed about it) because he was asked to do his job as a defenseman 1st & let others get the points as his job was to play defense. JBo was an offensive D in junior & Florida but Hamonic was never driving an offence.

If you expect an upsurge in his offence I'm pretty sure you'll be disappointed (although his pairing partner probably will). If you understand the beauty of defense you'll love the guy.

[conundrumed]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

JBow was a mouse compared to the game Hamonic plays.  

You are definitely kidding yourself boss. You are severely underrating JBo.

JBo is a stalwart NHL dman and has been for a long time.

Hamonic isn't JBo safe and reliable, but he is safe and reliable.

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

You are definitely kidding yourself boss. You are severely underrating JBo.

JBo is a stalwart NHL dman and has been for a long time.

Hamonic isn't JBo safe and reliable, but he is safe and reliable.

 

The mouse referred to how he played as a Flame.  Or are remembering him hitting and shutting down players by using his size in his time here?  Must have missed that side of his game here.  What I remember is him playing more like Brodie, using his skating and stick to defend.

[conundrumed]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The mouse referred to how he played as a Flame.  Or are remembering him hitting and shutting down players by using his size in his time here?  Must have missed that side of his game here.  What I remember is him playing more like Brodie, using his skating and stick to defend.

That's pathetic.

Yup, JBo was pathetic here and his career as an NHLer and Olympian is just kinda...where are you going with this? Get real?

Nobody, but nobody on our D protected Kipper. Detroit series anyone?

JBo did once we got him, and he was the only guy showing the rest how to protect your goalie.

Too funny. What is he entering, his 16th year now?

Is that luck?

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

That's pathetic.

Yup, JBo was pathetic here and his career as an NHLer and Olympian is just kinda...where are you going with this? Get real?

Nobody, but nobody on our D protected Kipper. Detroit series anyone?

JBo did once we got him, and he was the only guy showing the rest how to protect your goalie.

Too funny. What is he entering, his 16th year now?

Is that luck?

 

Focus on his time here and we might actually be talking about the same timeframe.  

[Flyerfan52]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That's pathetic.

Yup, JBo was pathetic here and his career as an NHLer and Olympian is just kinda...where are you going with this? Get real?

Nobody, but nobody on our D protected Kipper. Detroit series anyone?

JBo did once we got him, and he was the only guy showing the rest how to protect your goalie.

Too funny. What is he entering, his 16th year now?

Is that luck?

Yes! JBo played defense & was called down on these boards by concentrating on that important part of the game because his offence suffered. Weren't you 1 of those as I only recall me & a few others being happy to see true defense for a change.

 

[MAC331]

Just now, Flyerfan52 said:

Yes! JBo played defense & was called down on these boards by concentrating on that important part of the game because his offence suffered. Weren't you 1 of those as I only recall me & a few others being happy to see true defense for a change.

 

J Bo was a good defenseman and I always warned, you don't know what you have until it is gone.

[Flyerfan52]

13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

J Bo was a good defenseman and I always warned, you don't know what you have until it is gone.

Pretty sure that came much after I was the 1 defending him & finally the 1s a little shyer got up the nerve to agree that a defense playing defense was a good thing.

 

Man I got in aguements over that!

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Pretty sure that came much after I was the 1 defending him & finally the 1s a little shyer got up the nerve to agree that a defense playing defense was a good thing.

 

Man I got in aguements over that!

Was before I was part of the forum however I always defended him. People never realized how smooth and effortless he made a lot of his game look.

[conundrumed]

57 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Yes! JBo played defense & was called down on these boards by concentrating on that important part of the game because his offence suffered. Weren't you 1 of those as I only recall me & a few others being happy to see true defense for a change.

 

And JBo could hit that high slot, where no one could find him.

Unfortunately I mean no one on our team.

Gio is what he is due to JBo, I have very little doubt.

[rickross]

I think we'll grow to admire Hamonics pesky style of defence...he plays like a defensive agitator on the puck, not overly aggressive, not as smooth skating as Brodie but he can make life miserable for a fwd. Ideally he's a good compliment to Brodie but I'm still waiting to see it on the ice 1st. I guess we should be just as interested on who ends up pairing with Stone...that's going to be a very important pairing for us as well. 

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, rickross said:

I think we'll grow to admire Hamonics pesky style of defence...he plays like a defensive agitator on the puck, not overly aggressive, not as smooth skating as Brodie but he can make life miserable for a fwd. Ideally he's a good compliment to Brodie but I'm still waiting to see it on the ice 1st. I guess we should be just as interested on who ends up pairing with Stone...that's going to be a very important pairing for us as well. 

Could be a revolving door this season with Kulak, Bartkowski and Wotherspoon. I expect Valimaki to make a fast climb and would watch for him in 2018/19 season.

[robrob74]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Focus on his time here and we might actually be talking about the same timeframe.  

 

They suppressed his talent in Calgary. They made him play safe D. When Butter left, he turned into a completely different player.

[tmac70]

On 2017-07-30 at 1:51 PM, MAC331 said:

I don't know how many times it has been said but this team has a young core and any real improvement for the team will evolve by them maturing. To say JG and SM are average is low balling their talent and abilities. Whoever GG decides to play with them has to have something that enhances what they are already doing in order to see improvement.

I don't really care who plays Backlund and Frolik, they do the heavy lifting for a reason they are very good at it. They don't need Tkachuk on that line in order to fill the role they carry out for this team.

if we are going to improve our 5 on 5 and scoring we need another line to break out and perform, maybe it is anchored by Tkachuk and Bennett maybe it isn't but I think we need to find out.

Our 4th line is going to be a secondary checking line so what our top 9 delivers is where the improvement has to come from. Our defense should be able to better support the forward group and we could see some improved offense from the back end.

Are they average players no, but their line last year was just average. You stated as much as they need to improve. IMHO I don't see. Far to often it was Bennett or JG entering the zone alone, one vs 2 or one versus 3. In order to enhance both we need wingers that can assist in pushing the d back with speed. It would be nice to see a guy like Poirer or Foo have the ability to assist with either line but that maybe a stretch. Bennett and Tkachuk maybe a possibility but again need a winger with some speed to gain the zone who also likes puck possession, at present Verstig is the best choice.

[MAC331]

58 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Are they average players no, but their line last year was just average. You stated as much as they need to improve. IMHO I don't see. Far to often it was Bennett or JG entering the zone alone, one vs 2 or one versus 3. In order to enhance both we need wingers that can assist in pushing the d back with speed. It would be nice to see a guy like Poirer or Foo have the ability to assist with either line but that maybe a stretch. Bennett and Tkachuk maybe a possibility but again need a winger with some speed to gain the zone who also likes puck possession, at present Verstig is the best choice.

Average in what way ? stats ? Chiasson was not the right RW to play with them and no one else was much better. I don't believe Ferland will be the answer either. I will say this that I noticed Monahan carrying the puck into and through the zone more effectively in the last few months. Perhaps the coaches picked up on his need to expand his presence in order to free up Gaudreau more. Another threat equal in talent to Gaudreau is what's needed on that line IMO.

Right now I think the best RW for a Tkachuk/Bennett line is Lazar. He can skate with those two, is smart with the puck for both positioning and possession. Lazar isn't overly big but has good size to work the boards, good passer and shooter.

Maybe a year of Jagr on the top line is a way to go for 1 year.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

Are they average players no, but their line last year was just average. You stated as much as they need to improve. IMHO I don't see. Far to often it was Bennett or JG entering the zone alone, one vs 2 or one versus 3. In order to enhance both we need wingers that can assist in pushing the d back with speed. It would be nice to see a guy like Poirer or Foo have the ability to assist with either line but that maybe a stretch. Bennett and Tkachuk maybe a possibility but again need a winger with some speed to gain the zone who also likes puck possession, at present Verstig is the best choice.

 

I will agree with one thing, and that is that JH or Bennett need to enter the zone with speed.  So many times we watched Johnny enter the zone, only to have to curl back and wait or chip it to the corner.  Many fans complained about that, but it's also a function of the support he (doesn't) get.  What makes him so lethal is when he and another player are streaking into the zone 2 on 2 or 2 on 1; it ends being a scoring chance.  Saw him do that with Backlund, Chaisson, Monahan, etc.  

 

There lies the only problem I have with Ferland.  A LHS playing on RW.  A 2 on 1 with Johnny is problematic, as he can't pass as good on the backhand.  If they swap sides during the rush, it will work out better.

[robrob74]

I prefer Ferland down the lineup. I think it accentuates his skills, which makes him more dangerous. For me, is 15 goals As a good aim.