So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I have said the same thing and I think that we are in the minority here. I would really like to see the adjustments you suggest. The playmaker/shooter combination should work in theory, but it really doesn't. I suspect that this is because of the speed differential. Yes, they put up good numbers. That does not mean that they necessarily have chemistry and play at their best together.

So speed factor is your common denominator for this reasoning ? I don't think that has a lot to do with feeder vs shooter combinations. I see Gaudreau buzzing around creating slot opportunities for Monahan all the time. This is where Monahan does his best work from a scoring vantage point. Tkachuk is very much a feeder as well and Bennett is a net charger yet to find his distribution touch. I do think both Monahan and Bennett made so serious strides towards carrying the puck and distributing of the puck. We will discover other abilities as they continue to mature and grow together.

[rickross]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I have said the same thing and I think that we are in the minority here. I would really like to see the adjustments you suggest. The playmaker/shooter combination should work in theory, but it really doesn't. I suspect that this is because of the speed differential. Yes, they put up good numbers. That does not mean that they necessarily have chemistry and play at their best together.

They might not be an elite combo yet but they've been our 2 best forwards the last couple of years. We lack elite talent amongst our forwards so JH and Monny were paired moreso by default. They showed dynamic and near elite chemistry when Hudler was on their line but Flames haven't been able to replace that lines success since he was traded. Ferland is a good compliment but he's still not on their level in terms of skill and hockey IQ. It might be smart for GG to seperate them this season and spread their wealth among the top 2 lines. For now they've remained productive so GG could take the "ain't broke, don't fix it..." approach. 

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, rickross said:

I don't think this is their set in stone plan at all. It would be great if that line combo worked out but I don't think there's a mandate that Tkachuk-Bennett-Lazar have to play on a line this year. They may be similar in age and skill, speed but that doesn't guarantee they'll be an effective line. On paper it's easy to fall in love with specific lineups but that doesn't mean it translates to success on the ice. I'd say it's more crucial for the players u mentioned to have successful individual seasons but it's not a must to pair them on 1 line. 

I like the pairs strategy for the forward lines mainly because if you have two that work well together its easier for them to bring another player along.

Gaudreau, Monahan, XXXXX

XXXXX, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, XXXXXX

Versteeg, Stajan, Brouwer

The personal we have allows GG a lot of movement without total disruption to a line.

[Cowtownguy]

15 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

So speed factor is your common denominator for this reasoning ? I don't think that has a lot to do with feeder vs shooter combinations. I see Gaudreau buzzing around creating slot opportunities for Monahan all the time. This is where Monahan does his best work from a scoring vantage point. Tkachuk is very much a feeder as well and Bennett is a net charger yet to find his distribution touch. I do think both Monahan and Bennett made so serious strides towards carrying the puck and distributing of the puck. We will discover other abilities as they continue to mature and grow together.

I believe that Monahan slows down JH. As stated above, they get a lot of points, but I do not believe they play to their potential. GG could put Brouwer with Johnny and both would rack up a lot of points. Johnny would just have to do it skating around the ice a couple of times until Brouwer caught up. I suspect that Johnny does the dipsy doodly thing more often than he would like. He has no choice to do so, and it is causing a lot of turnovers. Other teams know this weakness and know how to generate turnovers.

 

At the same time, I think Bennett has been held back by boat anchors too. His style of play just does not work without speed on the line. So yeah, speed is an important attribute to consider when matching up players. 

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I believe that Monahan slows down JH. As stated above, they get a lot of points, but I do not believe they play to their potential. GG could put Brouwer with Johnny and both would rack up a lot of points. Johnny would just have to do it skating around the ice a couple of times until Brouwer caught up. I suspect that Johnny does the dipsy doodly thing more often than he would like. He has no choice to do so, and it is causing a lot of turnovers. Other teams know this weakness and know how to generate turnovers.

 

At the same time, I think Bennett has been held back by boat anchors too. His style of play just does not work without speed on the line. So yeah, speed is an important attribute to consider when matching up players. 

 

I see that lazar has (enough) speed, but he is such a north/south player that I don't know if he works with Bennett. Does his skill extend east/west enough?

 

i like the idea of Gaudreau/Bennett, but they both like to carry the puck more than they might if on the same line. Would that change? Are they mature players enough to utilize each other's strengths. 

 

I think that is why they use Johnny and Monny together.

[Cowtownguy]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I see that lazar has (enough) speed, but he is such a north/south player that I don't know if he works with Bennett. Does his skill extend east/west enough?

 

i like the idea of Gaudreau/Bennett, but they both like to carry the puck more than they might if on the same line. Would that change? Are they mature players enough to utilize each other's strengths. 

 

I think that is why they use Johnny and Monny together.

Actually, I wouldn't mind trying Lazar with Bennett too. Don't get me wrong. it makes sense to place our two top players together especially when the rebuild was just starting. I just wonder if other combinations should be considered given the talent we now have.

[conundrumed]

Lazar is a potential #1 RWer, but we seem to shy away from that. Calgary is a lot closer to Salmon Arm than Ottawa, I think that's the key.

Ottawa is a total culture shock to a farm kid in BC. My point being his family is close now for the added support. I think he thrives here, and we don't need a Laine for JG and Mony.

Call me an optimist, but his dip came solely from Ottawa, maybe the Sens org are right, but I have a hard time believing everything falls off because he was never very good to start with.

I have to go with common sense, he didn't suddenly become not very good at hockey...he Captained us to Gold, chances are better than average you don't fall off of a cliff.

Hopefully whatever real or imagined problems have been resolved and he and Poirier snarl for RW spots.

Because we've got them...

[Cowtownguy]

14 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Lazar is a potential #1 RWer, but we seem to shy away from that. Calgary is a lot closer to Salmon Arm than Ottawa, I think that's the key.

Ottawa is a total culture shock to a farm kid in BC. My point being his family is close now for the added support. I think he thrives here, and we don't need a Laine for JG and Mony.

Call me an optimist, but his dip came solely from Ottawa, maybe the Sens org are right, but I have a hard time believing everything falls off because he was never very good to start with.

I have to go with common sense, he didn't suddenly become not very good at hockey...he Captained us to Gold, chances are better than average you don't fall off of a cliff.

Hopefully whatever real or imagined problems have been resolved and he and Poirier snarl for RW spots.

Because we've got them...

He did score one goal and two assists in the four games he played with us. I know, small sample size. If he had nothing to show in those four games, people would have little hope for him. 

 

ETA: On a side note, why are re-sign and resign so similar, yet mean very different things? And why is flammable and inflammable spelled quite differently, when they mean the same thing? I could see someone who is just learning english not worry about smoking near a barrel of gas figuring it is inflammable. Anyways, the mind wanders as you age. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

[The_People1]

29 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I believe that Monahan slows down JH. As stated above, they get a lot of points, but I do not believe they play to their potential. 

 

Totals man.  

 

Hudler was able to keep up with Johnny and we saw the results.  Johnny needs fast and skilled linemates.  Monahan is skilled but a step behind.

 

Passer/shooter is great in theory but sometimes doesn't work in practice.  For example, Backlund and Frolik are magic together but neither is a passer or shooter but rather, both players think the game the same way. 

 

Hudler and Johnny thought the game the same way. Monahan was just lucky to have been along for the ride.

 

 

[Cowtownguy]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Totals man.  

 

Hudler was able to keep up with Johnny and we saw the results.  Johnny needs fast and skilled linemates.  Monahan is skilled but a step behind.

 

Passer/shooter is great in theory but sometimes doesn't work in practice.  For example, Backlund and Frolik are magic together but neither is a passer or shooter but rather, both players think the game the same way. 

 

Hudler and Johnny thought the game the same way. Monahan was just lucky to have been along for the ride.

 

 

They did have similar hockey IQ. They made each other better players. They were fast and unpredictable. I would like to see Johnny play with someone he has chemistry with. I really do believe that there is more talent in him to exploit.

[MAC331]

39 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I believe that Monahan slows down JH. As stated above, they get a lot of points, but I do not believe they play to their potential. GG could put Brouwer with Johnny and both would rack up a lot of points. Johnny would just have to do it skating around the ice a couple of times until Brouwer caught up. I suspect that Johnny does the dipsy doodly thing more often than he would like. He has no choice to do so, and it is causing a lot of turnovers. Other teams know this weakness and know how to generate turnovers.

 

At the same time, I think Bennett has been held back by boat anchors too. His style of play just does not work without speed on the line. So yeah, speed is an important attribute to consider when matching up players. 

Actually I think Bennett could stand to slow down a tad and learn to distribute the puck more so than try to do everything himself. Like I said I think he was getting the idea near the end of the season and yes I agree he needs some good line mates. Eventually I think Foo could be the match for him and Tkachuk.

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Totals man.  

 

Hudler was able to keep up with Johnny and we saw the results.  Johnny needs fast and skilled linemates.  Monahan is skilled but a step behind.

 

Passer/shooter is great in theory but sometimes doesn't work in practice.  For example, Backlund and Frolik are magic together but neither is a passer or shooter but rather, both players think the game the same way. 

 

Hudler and Johnny thought the game the same way. Monahan was just lucky to have been along for the ride.

 

 

Hudler wasn't a fast skater but he was positionally sound with the experienced he possessed. He also was a very good passer which what we need to free JG up for more scoring himself. More skill required on that line is the order of the day not splitting JG and SM up. I know many will poo poo this idea but I think Lazar would work well with JG and SM for these very reasons.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I like the pairs strategy for the forward lines mainly because if you have two that work well together its easier for them to bring another player along.

Gaudreau, Monahan, XXXXX

XXXXX, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, XXXXXX

Versteeg, Stajan, Brouwer

The personal we have allows GG a lot of movement without total disruption to a line.

This is a good way to start to build a team, and honestly you can find the right complimentary players to fill out those lines. As I pointed out mony and johnny both have been pacing themselves for 60 points or more depending how things are going, with johnny being on pace for 70 plus the past two seasons, even last year missing 10 games. If we can get an elite RW for the 1st line great, otherwise those pairs should work wonders. I dont want to be the realist here, but ferland producing at .5 points per game is nothing terrible, and if he can do that for a full season, hes perfect for the top line.

[Cowtownguy]

7 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Hudler wasn't a fast skater but he was positionally sound with the experienced he possessed. He also was a very good passer which what we need to free JG up for more scoring himself. More skill required on that line is the order of the day not splitting JG and SM up. I know many will poo poo this idea but I think Lazar would work well with JG and SM for these very reasons.

He isn't a boat anchor and he had chemistry with Johnny.

 

It doesn't hurt to try different combinations. If you can spark Lazar, it will be an unreal signing. 

[MAC331]

Just now, Cowtownguy said:

He isn't a boat anchor and he had chemistry with Johnny.

 

It doesn't hurt to try different combinations. If you can spark Lazar, it will be an unreal signing. 

Hudler was a smart player more than anything else but he also was a good passer and shooter. My ideal RW for these two would be a bigger stronger Hudler. I don't think Lazar was given any kind of right opportunity in OTT.

[AlbertaBoy12]

29 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

My ideal RW for these two would be a bigger stronger Hudler. I don't think Lazar was given any kind of right opportunity in OTT.

I dont think we should be expecting a 70 point guy with lazar, but a 40-50 point player would be how I would project lazar. Its weird he went from being a 20 point player to a 1 point player the season with mono. I think we could see a huge turnaround from his this season probably 40 points if I was to hazard a guess.

[kehatch]

This guy had 4 points last season and spent over half of the year as a healthy scratch. He needs to make the team before anyone is penciling him in on the top line. 

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, kehatch said:

This guy had 4 points last season and spent over half of the year as a healthy scratch. He needs to make the team before anyone is penciling him in on the top line. 

 

Consider him a project.  He's going to be one of the 23 just because they can't send him down.

His competition starts with Hathaway, Freddie (if he is kept up), and likely Foo.  Possibly Poirier if he has a good camp.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

This guy had 4 points last season and spent over half of the year as a healthy scratch. He needs to make the team before anyone is penciling him in on the top line. 

He also had mono, I wouldnt pencil him in on the top line either, but to make it out like hes going to be a healthy scratch next season is a little bit the other way.

[Flyerfan52]

4 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I believe that Monahan slows down JH. As stated above, they get a lot of points, but I do not believe they play to their potential. GG could put Brouwer with Johnny and both would rack up a lot of points. Johnny would just have to do it skating around the ice a couple of times until Brouwer caught up. I suspect that Johnny does the dipsy doodly thing more often than he would like. He has no choice to do so, and it is causing a lot of turnovers. Other teams know this weakness and know how to generate turnovers.

 

At the same time, I think Bennett has been held back by boat anchors too. His style of play just does not work without speed on the line. So yeah, speed is an important attribute to consider when matching up players. 

Maybe GG is approaching this all wrong. Brouwer is a big enough body that he could be assigned the task of anchoring himself in front of the net & be used for bankshots off his butt or to tap in rebounds Hartnell style.

[Flyerfan52]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Lazar is a potential #1 RWer, but we seem to shy away from that. Calgary is a lot closer to Salmon Arm than Ottawa, I think that's the key.

Ottawa is a total culture shock to a farm kid in BC. My point being his family is close now for the added support. I think he thrives here, and we don't need a Laine for JG and Mony.

Call me an optimist, but his dip came solely from Ottawa, maybe the Sens org are right, but I have a hard time believing everything falls off because he was never very good to start with.

I have to go with common sense, he didn't suddenly become not very good at hockey...he Captained us to Gold, chances are better than average you don't fall off of a cliff.

Hopefully whatever real or imagined problems have been resolved and he and Poirier snarl for RW spots.

Because we've got them...

Nice try. By that reasoning Lazar's bet bet to break out is with Edmonton since he spent all his junior years there.

[kehatch]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

He also had mono, I wouldnt pencil him in on the top line either, but to make it out like hes going to be a healthy scratch next season is a little bit the other way.

 

I won't be surprised at all if he ends up bouncing between the press box and the bench.  The Flames will probably upgrade on wing, and we have guys like Foo fighting for a spot.

 

I also won't be surprised if he ends up playing 70+ games on the NHL. 

 

My point is that he has 39 points in 3 NHL seasons. Penciling him in for 40+ points on the top line seems premature. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I hope he does. And maybe people spent more time watching him in Ottawa then I did. But I certainly don't have that expectation going into next season. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

28 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I won't be surprised at all if he ends up bouncing between the press box and the bench.  The Flames will probably upgrade on wing, and we have guys like Foo fighting for a spot.

 

I also won't be surprised if he ends up playing 70+ games on the NHL. 

 

My point is that he has 39 points in 3 NHL seasons. Penciling him in for 40+ points on the top line seems premature. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I hope he does. And maybe people spent more time watching him in Ottawa then I did. But I certainly don't have that expectation going into next season. 

I did say project 40 points. but I guess I also said we could see a huge turnaround. I think if everything goes well we could see lazar putting up 40 points in a 2nd or 3rd line role, but I agree we could also see him bouncing between the press box and bench. I think he has more to give then what he gave in ottawa but thats just me.

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I did say project 40 points. but I guess I also said we could see a huge turnaround. I think if everything goes well we could see lazar putting up 40 points in a 2nd or 3rd line role, but I agree we could also see him bouncing between the press box and bench. I think he has more to give then what he gave in ottawa but thats just me.

 

Personally I see him as a defensive centre. He checks a lot of marks there. Plays big. Strong defence. RH face off. 

 

My hope is he can be that third line defensive center the Flames really need. I am a bit pessimistic he gets there. But he fits that role much better then he does an offensive winger. 

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Totals man.  

 

Hudler was able to keep up with Johnny and we saw the results.  Johnny needs fast and skilled linemates.  Monahan is skilled but a step behind.

 

Passer/shooter is great in theory but sometimes doesn't work in practice.  For example, Backlund and Frolik are magic together but neither is a passer or shooter but rather, both players think the game the same way. 

 

Hudler and Johnny thought the game the same way. Monahan was just lucky to have been along for the ride.

 

 

Why is the shooter "lucky" does this mean anyone can do what Monahan does ? I agree with what you are saying about Hudler and Gaudreau and have said as much that we need a similar threat to him for max results. I see Ferland opening up some space because of his physical presence but he is mostly a shooter. Shut down JG and that line will suffer but they will have some success.