The Rebuild over?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Ahem he was with mony with the same results this season, and we dont need a top RW to play with him. Maroon is riding sky high shooting percentages to his goals, but that aside maroon is a complimentary player, hes not a top RW or LW because hes playing the left side. We need a right winger with more finish, I dont think we do, as currently everyone on this team is struggling offensively and has been all season, I wish I was counting but chiasson has hit more then a few posts, and could very well finish with 20 goals this season, the team would have to get going for this to happen. Why is it that people on these forums continually make excuses for the players? Brodie isent playing his proper side or johnny doesnt have good linemates, these guys are professional hockey players. Johnny has played with mony for more then a few games, and bennett for more then a few games both are very good line mates, like draisaitl. Maroon is a complimentary player, who can play up and down your top 9 like a brouwer or a chiasson, chiasson is sitting at 11% for shooting percentage though. 

 

@Mac it could be worth a try, but im not 100% sure it happens because then you are loading up one line, then bennett or mony gets to play with brouwer and chiasson? or tkachuk and chiasson would be nice. 

 

You seem to be ignoring that he has had more points since returning from injury when playing with Monahan than Bennett.  Earlier in the season, both Johnny and Monahan were under-performing.  Now it seems to be Guadreau, who is on a cold streak (3 points in last 9 games).  Most of that is played EV with Bennett and Chasson.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Scoring success will always be a matter of which players gell together or compliment each others talents. Going way back in the day who would have ever thought a line of Hodge,Esposito and Cashman would have lead to one of the highest scoring lines in hockey. I don't think any of our current RW players are the answer for Gaudreau and Monahan so GG is trying to make the best out of the situation.

Bennett has been saddled with so many different line mates and position shifts I don't think anyone should complain about him, I feel for the guy.

 

I agree about Bennett.  He's fine, but hasn't really been provided with players that he has chemistry with.

[AlbertaBoy12]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You seem to be ignoring that he has had more points since returning from injury when playing with Monahan than Bennett.  Earlier in the season, both Johnny and Monahan were under-performing.  Now it seems to be Guadreau, who is on a cold streak (3 points in last 9 games).  Most of that is played EV with Bennett and Chasson.

How many of those points were on the powerplay? or self created goals? Mony got a bunch of his goals before the current games with versteeg and brouwer. Hes had chemistry with bennett in the past, I wouldnt say its simply because he has bennett and chiasson on his line hes not producing, but if he goes back to monys line he will suddenly produce. He plays with mony on the pp and what has he created there? Next to nothing the past few games, johnnys been forcing it and its showing. Johnny needs to figure johnny out. 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

How many of those points were on the powerplay? or self created goals? Mony got a bunch of his goals before the current games with versteeg and brouwer. Hes had chemistry with bennett in the past, I wouldnt say its simply because he has bennett and chiasson on his line hes not producing, but if he goes back to monys line he will suddenly produce. He plays with mony on the pp and what has he created there? Next to nothing the past few games, johnnys been forcing it and its showing. Johnny needs to figure johnny out. 

 

I don't see any chemistry myself.  There may have been occasional magic, but not game in game out.  What I see is a lot of one and done zone entries.  It goes to the boards, it's not kept for very long.  A dump and chase results in a turnover.  

 

Let's face it, two lines are struggling to score at EV.  Saying it's one player that needs to figure out himself is wrong.  If something isn't working for two lines, then you make a change.  If there are signs it's working, then keep it that way to see if the points come.  If there are no signs, then make the change.  

[AlbertaBoy12]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't see any chemistry myself.  There may have been occasional magic, but not game in game out.  What I see is a lot of one and done zone entries.  It goes to the boards, it's not kept for very long.  A dump and chase results in a turnover.  

 

Let's face it, two lines are struggling to score at EV.  Saying it's one player that needs to figure out himself is wrong.  If something isn't working for two lines, then you make a change.  If there are signs it's working, then keep it that way to see if the points come.  If there are no signs, then make the change.  

Im not disagreeing with you that the line combinations for bennett and mony arent working, Im simply saying its not fair to say johnny is not part of the problem. I personally dont think either of those lines look to have chemistry, and I didnt think johnny has shown chemistry with anyone recently, thats what I was getting at. Id still like to see 

 

Tkachuk-bennett-Chiasson

Gaudreau-mony-brouwer

Versteeg-backlund-Frolik

bouma-stajan-hathaway

 

With ferland taking versteegs spot, and versteeg swapping with chiasson once ferland comes back from injury. I think the real problem right now is, GG is hesitant to break up the 3M line that has been working so well. But at the same time it doesnt seem like bennett, mony or gaudreau are creating anything right now.

[robrob74]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't see any chemistry myself.  There may have been occasional magic, but not game in game out.  What I see is a lot of one and done zone entries.  It goes to the boards, it's not kept for very long.  A dump and chase results in a turnover.  

 

Let's face it, two lines are struggling to score at EV.  Saying it's one player that needs to figure out himself is wrong.  If something isn't working for two lines, then you make a change.  If there are signs it's working, then keep it that way to see if the points come.  If there are no signs, then make the change.  

 

I see that with both lines though. When Gaudreau plays with either C. So something has gotta give. The entire team is struggling right now. 

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I see that with both lines though. When Gaudreau plays with either C. So something has gotta give. The entire team is struggling right now. 

Just my take but I see where Gaudreau and Monahan are not going to be great on the boards which is one of Chiasson's strengths but gets wasted. They need someone like Versteeg that can get in the open but also be a good feeder which he is. Bennett is a bulldog and he could lead a line that works the boards and attacks the net with Ferland, Chiasson or Brouwer as line mates. GG needs to wake up and try something such as these lines. I would rather have Brouwer or Chiasson with Stajan than Hathaway.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Just my take but I see where Gaudreau and Monahan are not going to be great on the boards which is one of Chiasson's strengths but gets wasted. They need someone like Versteeg that can get in the open but also be a good feeder which he is. Bennett is a bulldog and he could lead a line that works the boards and attacks the net with Ferland, Chiasson or Brouwer as line mates. GG needs to wake up and try something such as these lines. I would rather have Brouwer or Chiasson with Stajan than Hathaway.

 

I wouldn't even mind if Brouwer played with Johnny/Mony.  I would prefer Versteeg with them.  If not, then Brouwer with Bennett and some LW.  Bennett falls too much on the boards, so Brouwer could help.

[AlbertaBoy12]

28 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wouldn't even mind if Brouwer played with Johnny/Mony.  I would prefer Versteeg with them.  If not, then Brouwer with Bennett and some LW.  Bennett falls too much on the boards, so Brouwer could help.

It seems to me that the team is struggling on the cycle this year, even just the board play in general. So many bad pinches, passes thrown up the wall to no where  in the offensive zone, and no one driving the net off the half wall.

I hate cassie campbell pascall, but she brought up an interesting point that GG is still trying to get bad habits out of this team. I really wonder if this is just a learning year for this team and system, while we are still doing well, next year could be a big turn around. I know flames nation did an article on it, that you are looking at a 2% increase per year in corsi we have seen a 4% increase. Anyways my point being, Im ok if we get a wild card spot or barely miss the playoffs, this is a team thats still learning. Next year we should see this team continue to grow under this new system, with a few new players and we will see it goes. John tortorella was going to get fired last year and now the blue jackets are on fire. 

[jjgallow]

Wow, I am going to have a field day with this thread in the off-season

 

(assuming I have no life in the off-season)

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Wow, I am going to have a field day with this thread in the off-season

 

(assuming I have no life in the off-season)

 

Hey, you will need to wait till the playoffs are over.  We'll be too busy focusing on the playoff games, criticizing coaching decisions, erratic play of defenders, and enjoying life without Wideman. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

(assuming I have no life in the off-season)

The offseason is life...I dont know what you are talking about.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Hey, you will need to wait till the playoffs are over.  We'll be too busy focusing on the playoff games, criticizing coaching decisions, erratic play of defenders, and enjoying life without Wideman. 

 tempting

[robrob74]

21 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 tempting

 

Are you a Flames fan? 

[DirtyDeeds]

I am pretty sure it is now safe to say we are past the rebuilding stage.

 

There may be some tinkering, some tryouts, some upgrading but .....

 

We are spending close enough to cap and have the core pretty much set along with most of the peripheral players in line for now..

 

I am pretty sure it is safe to say we are past the rebuilding stage now.

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I am pretty sure it is now safe to say we are past the rebuilding stage.

 

There may be some tinkering, some tryouts, some upgrading but .....

 

We are spending close enough to cap and have the core pretty much set along with most of the peripheral players in line for now..

 

I am pretty sure it is safe to say we are past the rebuilding stage now.

Rebuilding yes because we have the core to move forward with now. Experience, maturity and complimentary players are now the ingredients our GM needs to focus on. The bigger part of the rebuild IMO was BT being bold enough to bring in GG and a new system of play for this group. Definitely on the right track.

[Flyerfan52]

It's not over until we are set in goal.

[MAC331]

49 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

It's not over until we are set in goal.

We definitely need the right pieces for our goaltending however if they sign back Elliott for 3 years it gives us a veteran as part of the emerging core. For this reason I would say we are continuing to build not rebuilding any longer.

[TheBurn]

Here's hoping this off season sees us draft Nick Suzuki, sign fa Darren Raddysh, bring up Jankowski and Rass and put Gillies in as backup. Rebuild done?.

 

For real though, once we get one of our young goalies transitioned into the nhl, get a top line RW and a defenseman that can handle everyday top 4 duties we will be done the rebuild. Even though we look good, we are still in a rebuild until we are a perennial contender. Right now we are still a bubble team that is trending up. Once the rebuild is done, then we will be playing with replacing bottom lines and vets and creating ahl depth.

[rickross]

I don't think you ever stop rebuilding. The game changes so quickly now that you constantly need to tinker for todays game while building for tomorrows. In the sense that we aren't trading our prime assets, sure that part is over but I don't think any team can afford to be complacent anymore. There's a thread on it already but the L.A Kings are a good example, in essence they still have a core with Poughty Doughty, Quick and Kopitar but their future looks pretty barren. They're on their way from Stanley Cup contenders to a bubble team in a hurry..and with their current cupboard situation they aren't in an attractive draft position either. They don't need to blow it up, but they need to redefine their team

[MAC331]

29 minutes ago, rickross said:

I don't think you ever stop rebuilding. The game changes so quickly now that you constantly need to tinker for todays game while building for tomorrows. In the sense that we aren't trading our prime assets, sure that part is over but I don't think any team can afford to be complacent anymore. There's a thread on it already but the L.A Kings are a good example, in essence they still have a core with Poughty Doughty, Quick and Kopitar but their future looks pretty barren. They're on their way from Stanley Cup contenders to a bubble team in a hurry..and with their current cupboard situation they aren't in an attractive draft position either. They don't need to blow it up, but they need to redefine their team

Rebuilding is when you strip out one core to replace it with another. We have in essence done that here and are now having our core mature and gain experience albeit most are at staggering stages. Retooling or tinkering I agree will always be a need situation within this cap NHL environment. We have seen our new core come in and management support them by either keeping some experienced vets or adding some to help bring this plan along. We are getting there.

[The_People1]

53 minutes ago, rickross said:

I don't think you ever stop rebuilding. 

 

I hate this thought process because rather than establish a meaning for the term, it is attempting to remove the term altogether.

 

Like when is someone done building their house?  I guess never because at some point they will have to repaint, develop the basement, redo the deck, install new carpets, landscape every year, etc.  No.  Don't be silly.

 

There is also another term for tinkering peripheral pieces to a team that's done building.  It's called re-tool.  

[rickross]

32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I hate this thought process because rather than establish a meaning for the term, it is attempting to remove the term altogether.

 

Like when is someone done building their house?  I guess never because at some point they will have to repaint, develop the basement, redo the deck, install new carpets, landscape every year, etc.  No.  Don't be silly.

 

There is also another term for tinkering peripheral pieces to a team that's done building.  It's called re-tool.  

Ok Professor..didn't know this was a Thesaurus exam lol! Whatever you want to call it. You need the right tools to rebuild lets just put it that way

[cross16]

I think people is right and it's eh why is has always been a tough thread. Whether or not people think the rebuild is done tends to depend on their definition of a rebuild. If your definition of a rebuild is you are looking to make changes well then every team in the NHL is rebuilding as no team is complete. I think rebuild and building (or re-tooling if you will) are two different things. 

 

I do agree the flames are done rebuilding and have felt that way for a while. Doesn't mean they are a finished but product, and no team really is anyway. 

[MAC331]

Just now, cross16 said:

I think people is right and it's eh why is has always been a tough thread. Whether or not people think the rebuild is done tends to depend on their definition of a rebuild. If your definition of a rebuild is you are looking to make changes well then every team in the NHL is rebuilding as no team is complete. I think rebuild and building (or re-tooling if you will) are two different things. 

 

I do agree the flames are done rebuilding and have felt that way for a while. Doesn't mean they are a finished but product, and no team really is anyway. 

We are past the rebuilding, now BT has to continually add quality pieces to improve upon the roster year to year. Questions will always be there like who to have as goalies next season. Replacing players for the positions that are coming vacant. Improving on what we have here now through trades.