Flames Special Teams.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Every one likes to discuss the new systems but for the people who might not see the changes or would like a review of the PK for example here it is.

 

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/10/14/looking-into-the-flames-new-penalty-kill

 

Looking at more in slow mo vs at game speed really highlights the changes to the flames PK for example and its amazing to see versus  the highpowered oilers offence how stifling we were through the neutral zone, I love it. I know its game 1 but im impressed with the performance in the preseason and excited to see what the next 81 games have to offer.

[CaCaw]

The PK has been ok so far, but man do we need to sort out our PP.  We can't even gain the zone consistently.  I know they are learning new systems and all, but if the new system includes the play where the forward skates the puck out of our zone, passes it back to the d-man (who then skates it out of our zone), and everyone else stops and stands still at the blueline and waits... well, lets just say I hope that system is tossed aside soon.

The inability to score on the PP will cost us a lot of games, and arguably already has, so I hope they sort it out soon. Who coaches the PP now, anyway?

[cross16]

1 hour ago, CaCaw said:

The PK has been ok so far, but man do we need to sort out our PP.  We can't even gain the zone consistently.  I know they are learning new systems and all, but if the new system includes the play where the forward skates the puck out of our zone, passes it back to the d-man (who then skates it out of our zone), and everyone else stops and stands still at the blueline and waits... well, lets just say I hope that system is tossed aside soon.

The inability to score on the PP will cost us a lot of games, and arguably already has, so I hope they sort it out soon. Who coaches the PP now, anyway?

 

Cameron is the PP coach. 

 

A big problem with the PP so far is Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie and Gio have not played all that well so far, at least not to what they are capable of. That and players are passing way too much, need to take more shots.  PP will come around once those guys settle in.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Cameron is the PP coach. 

 

A big problem with the PP so far is Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie and Gio have not played all that well so far, at least not to what they are capable of. That and players are passing way too much, need to take more shots.  PP will come around once those guys settle in.  

 

A few things I have noticed.

 

One - when the Flames have the puck in the O-zone, they often slow the play and hang onto the puck, going into traffic, instead of turning the other way or passing.  Too easy to turn it over if you are against the boards, not moving, and have two defenders coming at you.

 

Two - Gaudreau and Brodie are the best puck carriers on controlled zone entries.  The problem is that the other players are standing still when they enter.

 

Three - indecision at the blueline.  Whether that be skating directly towards the net for a shot and blasting it against a pile of bodies, or 2nd guessing on entering the zone.  

[rickross]

It appears we have better positioning and puck movement on the PP so far. Last year they could barely hold on to possession on the PP so I'd say it's been an improvement already. If the Flames can get this PP rolling then it really boosts our chances every game no matter what team we face. Hopefully it starts to click within the next few games. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

It appears we have better positioning and puck movement on the PP so far. Last year they could barely hold on to possession on the PP so I'd say it's been an improvement already. If the Flames can get this PP rolling then it really boosts our chances every game no matter what team we face. Hopefully it starts to click within the next few games. 

 

Possession has seen drastic improvement this season, for sure in the Buffalo game.  The PP killed any momentum we had 5v5.  Mostly from the questionable decision making. If they can tighten that up and gain the zone on a regular basis, then we should see improvements.  I like Backlund, but I don't think he is really a PP guy.  Maybe as a 4th forward, but otherwise I didn't think he has been effective.  Frolik is different.  

[Cowtownguy]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Possession has seen drastic improvement this season, for sure in the Buffalo game.  The PP killed any momentum we had 5v5.  Mostly from the questionable decision making. If they can tighten that up and gain the zone on a regular basis, then we should see improvements.  I like Backlund, but I don't think he is really a PP guy.  Maybe as a 4th forward, but otherwise I didn't think he has been effective.  Frolik is different.  

Russell was too expensive, and too expensive for just carrying the puck on the PP, but he sure was good at it. We don't really have anyone quite that good at gaining the zone. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Possession has seen drastic improvement this season, for sure in the Buffalo game.  The PP killed any momentum we had 5v5.  Mostly from the questionable decision making. If they can tighten that up and gain the zone on a regular basis, then we should see improvements.  I like Backlund, but I don't think he is really a PP guy.  Maybe as a 4th forward, but otherwise I didn't think he has been effective.  Frolik is different.  

 

I agree that Backlund is not a good PP guy but we don't have many options unfortunately.  If it's not Backlund then it's Versteeg or Ferland or Chiasson and none of these guys have proven to be better on the PP yet.  Still, I agree.

 

Not to mention, we've already got Backlund on the PK, it's tough to ask Backlund to play in every special teams situation as well as log regular 5 on 5 time.  I'd rather he sit out the PP to stay fresh.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

Russell was too expensive, and too expensive for just carrying the puck on the PP, but he sure was good at it. We don't really have anyone quite that good at gaining the zone. 

Actually, JH and Brodie were better, and have been ok to start the season.

 

Here is an article that breaks down last season....

 

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/5/7/the-2015-16-calgary-flames-zone-entry-rundown

[Cowtownguy]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Actually, JH and Brodie were better, and have been ok to start the season.

 

Here is an article that breaks down last season....

 

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/5/7/the-2015-16-calgary-flames-zone-entry-rundown

Brodie is good at it as well. JH is an incredible skater too of course. What makes Russell so good at it is that he rarely turns over the puck relative to these two. We have seen it numerous times. He takes the puck, waits for a player to chase him, and then plays twists and turns away from them. I think that this is his best attribute. The problem is that it is not worth $3.1 million. He is also just not an effective defenceman in his own zone. Great to gain the offensive zone on the PP though.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

Brodie is good at it as well. JH is an incredible skater too of course. What makes Russell so good at it is that he rarely turns over the puck relative to these two. We have seen it numerous times. He takes the puck, waits for a player to chase him, and then plays twists and turns away from them. I think that this is his best attribute. The problem is that it is not worth $3.1 million. He is also just not an effective defenceman in his own zone. Great to gain the offensive zone on the PP though.

 

I would say you are remembering the Russell of 2014/15, not last season.  He may be looking better on an Oilers team this year, but that is in isolation.  He's one of the few D-men on that team that has offense.

[ABC923]

So, 0 for 6 on the PP tonight, now 1 for 22 this season.  Good for 4.5 %.  Works out to 1.36 G/60 on the PP, while our goals per game is just under 3.  So we are officially worse on the PP than we are 5v5.  Who ever is in charge of our PP should be fired, I've never seen this level of incompetence.  2 more goals against on the PK, so we sit at around 78%, which is bottom half of the league as well.  Special teams are killing us. 

[DHT]

It was very difficult to watch our PP last night. The opposition team just have to stand at blue line and wait because everyone on our team is also standing at the blue line waiting for the puck. There is no room to have a proper entry to offensive zone. They need to fix this fast.

[cross16]

I actually thought the zone entries last night were fine. Flames got lots of posession on the PP but they just stood around with it. No movement and poor puck movement so Carolina could just stay in shooting lanes all night. 

 

Flames need to get some movement in the PP. Switch off/rotate Dmen, move high low to break down the box. Right now they are just content to move the puck around the permeter which is super easy to defend. 

 

PK is playing well though. I get the nubmers don't favor them but I've liekd what i've seen. That late 5 on 3 goal was a garbage time goal and you could tell the game was done at that point. 

[The_Argus]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I actually thought the zone entries last night were fine.

 

I think "fine" might be going a little too far. Half the time, the zone entries were totally inept, with everyone standing around at the blue line. The other half the time, they were fine, but as you said, what the Flames actually did in the zone was disappointing. It actually looked shockingly like our power play last year. Pass around the perimeter until someone makes a bad pass and gives up the puck, or until we get a low-chance shot from the point right into traffic. Or shoot and miss the net by a mile, usually leading to the puck going back the other way.

 

I agree the PK looks good, though they haven't got a lot of lucky breaks on it. And they're taking way too many unnecessary penalties.

[cross16]

1 minute ago, The_Argus said:

 

I think "fine" might be going a little too far. Half the time, the zone entries were totally inept, with everyone standing around at the blue line. The other half the time, they were fine, but as you said, what the Flames actually did in the zone was disappointing. It actually looked shockingly like our power play last year. Pass around the perimeter until someone makes a bad pass and gives up the puck, or until we get a low-chance shot from the point right into traffic. Or shoot and miss the net by a mile, usually leading to the puck going back the other way.

 

Give some credit to Carolina too, they defend the blueline very well. 

 

At the end of the day I thought the PP had more than enough offensive zone time to create chances so that's why I saw it was fine. For the most part, I found ever PP they had, theer was enough time to create some chances. The second part of what you said I agree with 100%. Doens't really matter how good or bad your entires are if you arn't going to be effective with the puck when you have it. 

[YounGuns]

It concerns me that they brought in Cameron to run the power play, even though last year his team had an even worse power play than ours....even with Erik Karlsson.

 

Could someone explain that logic to me?!?

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, YounGuns said:

It concerns me that they brought in Cameron to run the power play, even though last year his team had an even worse power play than ours....even with Erik Karlsson.

 

Could someone explain that logic to me?!?

IMO any PP comes down to execution by the players. I don't think Cameron has employed anything to complicated for these guys, at least would hope not. We live in an era which demands shooting the puck at the net because anything can happen, to much passing for a perfect chance is our mistake.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

IMO any PP comes down to execution by the players. I don't think Cameron has employed anything to complicated for these guys, at least would hope not. We live in an era which demands shooting the puck at the net because anything can happen, to much passing for a perfect chance is our mistake.

 

I agree, and some players can tend to skate it into high traffic areas that tends to kill the momentum of the PP.

 

has there been a net front presence? 

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree, and some players can tend to skate it into high traffic areas that tends to kill the momentum of the PP.

 

has there been a net front presence? 

Not enough by the ones who should there, Ferland, Chiasson and Tkachuk would be my choices but GG seems to think Brouwer is some kind of answer on the PP.

[robrob74]

Have we overpaid for third liners in Frolik and Brouwer? You'd think we could get someone with those contracts to contribute on the pp.

[ABC923]

Can we decline penalties?  Just strike a deal with the league that says we can choose to subtract two minutes off the clock and just start 5v5 again?  At least that way we wouldn't run the risk of giving up a short handed break-away again.  The PP is killing us, if by some miracle we actually have some kind of momentum all the other team has to do is take a penalty and the momentum dies.  I've been watching this team for decades, and more often than not I have been disappointed in the PP.  But never, and I mean never has it been so bad.  Any one of us could literally coach a powerplay of equal potency.  You shouldn't even need a power play plan to score on 4% of your attempts, and we can't even do that.  If Cameron is in charge of the PP, he should be fired immediately and replaced with Bozo the Clown or the IKEA monkey.

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Have we overpaid for third liners in Frolik and Brouwer? You'd think we could get someone with those contracts to contribute on the pp.

The simple answer is yes however these are the flex players you get as your rebuild or build towards something better. They serve the purpose for now.

[JTech780]

My pet peeve with the PP is the bump back play where the defenseman carries the puck to center ice and then drops it back to the forward. This isn't just a Gulutzan thing either, Hartley did it, most teams will do it from time to time. We just seem to do it on every entry, it's so telegraphed that you aren't catching any team by surprise.

 

The reason I dislike it is that basically all your players except 1 end up stopping at the blueline and only 1 player is hitting the blueline with speed. When you have 4 of your players standing at the blueline plus 3 of the other teams players standing at the blueline where is the puck carrier supposed to go?

[MAC331]

17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

My pet peeve with the PP is the bump back play where the defenseman carries the puck to center ice and then drops it back to the forward. This isn't just a Gulutzan thing either, Hartley did it, most teams will do it from time to time. We just seem to do it on every entry, it's so telegraphed that you aren't catching any team by surprise.

 

The reason I dislike it is that basically all your players except 1 end up stopping at the blueline and only 1 player is hitting the blueline with speed. When you have 4 of your players standing at the blueline plus 3 of the other teams players standing at the blueline where is the puck carrier supposed to go?

I agree 100%, I hate that loss of forward movement. If we are going for an improved possession style get the puck into the O zone and forecheck, which isn't a new concept.