Flames Special Teams.

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, xstrike said:

I'd go with Tkachuk over Ferland for the 2nd unit. Nothing against Ferland, but I think Tkachuk has better hands and better offense. Also you used Bennett twice so... was that supposed to be Tkachuk?

Our PP sucks because we don't put pucks on net. They waste way to much time skating around the perimeter for the perfect shot and then when they have been shooting it is right into someone's legs. Take your choice Ferland, Tkachuk, Brouwer or Chiasson put them in front to cause havoc and let the snipers get some pucks on net. Also do we have ANYONE from the point that can actually hit the net ??? I am so sick of slap shots that end up back in the neutral zone usually on one of the oppositions sticks. Use your team mates would be my message.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, xstrike said:

I'd go with Tkachuk over Ferland for the 2nd unit. Nothing against Ferland, but I think Tkachuk has better hands and better offense. Also you used Bennett twice so... was that supposed to be Tkachuk?

Brain fart.

 

The 2nd Bennett was supposed to be Monahan.  With Tkachuk, I would just play him near the same minutes as Backlund on 5v5.

[cross16]

So for all the PP flak and all the "Cameron Must go" banter, anyone check the Flames PP today?

 

17th in the league right now. and over 30% in December. It's a legit weapon for the Flames right now. 

 

PK at 86% since Nov 15th which is apparantly when the Flames had a chance to make special teams more of a priority at practice. PP is at 26% since that date. That would be good for 5th best in the NHL on the PK, and number 1 on the PP. Not suggesting they will sustain that but fair to say they've figured out their special teams. Unfortuantely 5 on 5 game is starting to slip. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

39 minutes ago, cross16 said:

So for all the PP flak and all the "Cameron Must go" banter, anyone check the Flames PP today?

 

17th in the league right now. and over 30% in December. It's a legit weapon for the Flames right now. 

 

PK at 86% since Nov 15th which is apparantly when the Flames had a chance to make special teams more of a priority at practice. PP is at 26% since that date. That would be good for 5th best in the NHL on the PK, and number 1 on the PP. Not suggesting they will sustain that but fair to say they've figured out their special teams. Unfortuantely 5 on 5 game is starting to slip. 

All the nay sayers are on the flamesnation.com posts, still clinging to the fact that they know better when the results say different. The flames are what they are this season, a team thats growing but learning to play hockey the right way, we will either make the playoffs or just miss, and theres nothing wrong with that.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

So for all the PP flak and all the "Cameron Must go" banter, anyone check the Flames PP today?

 

17th in the league right now. and over 30% in December. It's a legit weapon for the Flames right now. 

 

PK at 86% since Nov 15th which is apparantly when the Flames had a chance to make special teams more of a priority at practice. PP is at 26% since that date. That would be good for 5th best in the NHL on the PK, and number 1 on the PP. Not suggesting they will sustain that but fair to say they've figured out their special teams. Unfortuantely 5 on 5 game is starting to slip. 

 

I will neither conform nor deny being part of the picthfork bunch.

 

If players used, entry methods, using 4 forwards, playing Hamilton or Ferland, and unit combos were all the same as when we were struggling, then it comes down to players adapting to the new plan/coach.  If hose things have changed, then maybe it's a little of the coach and the players adapting.

 

When things were bad, very little changed.  Over time, the play has morphed.

 

There are still lots of problems with the execution.  Too much overthinking/overpassing.  Standing at the blueline after a bumpback.  Not a single EN goal scored all season.

I like the fact we are improving.  Some games we seem to find the right combination of forwards and defense to score on at least one opportunity.  It's just as important to have a PP create momentum.  A bad one can kill it.  A good one can drive it. 

[ABC923]

To be fair to the pitchfork crowd of which I was a part, the PP was obscenely bad.  Historic levels of bad.  While it was unlikely to continue at that level for the rest of the season, there were no indications that significant improvements were coming.  The same strategies were tried with the same players over and over with rarely even a quality chance to show for it.  The coaching staff have adjusted now, the teams has spent a lot of time working on it, and things have improved.  I still see a lot of issues with consistency, and chances are the PP will regress toward nhl norms.  But for the time being, results are there and my pitchfork has been put away.  Not too far away though...

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

To be fair to the pitchfork crowd of which I was a part, the PP was obscenely bad.  Historic levels of bad.  While it was unlikely to continue at that level for the rest of the season, there were no indications that significant improvements were coming.  The same strategies were tried with the same players over and over with rarely even a quality chance to show for it.  The coaching staff have adjusted now, the teams has spent a lot of time working on it, and things have improved.  I still see a lot of issues with consistency, and chances are the PP will regress toward nhl norms.  But for the time being, results are there and my pitchfork has been put away.  Not too far away though...

No offence to you specfically but this is exactly why fans dont work as NHL Gms, because there is no patience for systems to improve. IF that was the case heck we would already have a new coaching staff, and BH prolly wouldnt have been around as long as he was.

[cross16]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:20 PM, ABC923 said:

To be fair to the pitchfork crowd of which I was a part, the PP was obscenely bad.  Historic levels of bad.  While it was unlikely to continue at that level for the rest of the season, there were no indications that significant improvements were coming.  The same strategies were tried with the same players over and over with rarely even a quality chance to show for it.  The coaching staff have adjusted now, the teams has spent a lot of time working on it, and things have improved.  I still see a lot of issues with consistency, and chances are the PP will regress toward nhl norms.  But for the time being, results are there and my pitchfork has been put away.  Not too far away though...

 

To be fair I did not intend the post to be an "i told you so" or anything like that. I understood why there was so much frustration with the Flames PP but I do think it's a good example of seeing how things play out rather than reading into such a small sample size. I actually personally saw alot of good things with the Flames PP early on, I just saw a group of players trying to execute it with no confidence in what they were doing. Takes time to develop sometimes but I do get it's hard not to get caught up in it. 

 

So after a tremendous special teams display last night:

PP is at 18.8% for the season and 14th in the league. That is not at type, yes the Flames PP is in the top half of the league.

PK is at 79.4 good for 22nd. 

Good sign too is they are close to the 100 point combined threshold which is sort of the new standard for looking at your combined special teams. 

IN Decmeber:

PP - 39% - incredible number. 

PK - 86% 

 

I honestly can't remember at any point in recent memory the Flames PP looking as dangerous as it did last night. Obviously they scored so the results were positive but even the puck movement was just fantastic. I just can't recall a Flames team being able to move the puck that fast and that efficiently on a PP in my recent memory (which I admit is pretty terrible  ). I get its Arizona but still deserves kudos.

[hockeypriest2]

A good night for the special teams tonight... 1 pp goal, 1 shortie, and no pp goals against...

The pp looked very dangerous tonight and I personally think we may have the best pk in the league!!!

[travel_dude]

I think credit is due to the coaches for recognizing that you can use 4 forwards on a PP unit and have success.  We actually have a good 1-2 punch.

Johnny/Versteeg and Brodie on the point for one unit and Gio/Hammy for another.  The first unit has the skill down low, and the 2nd unit has the lethal point shots or the rovers.

[Pyromancer]

It has been quite the turnaround for the Flames special teams.

As of last night's games:

13th on the Power Play @ 19.2% (23/120)

19th on the Penalty Kill @ 81.3% (113/139)

 

Ironically the turnaround more or less occurred on Nov 23 against the Columbus Blue Jackets, the current top NHL team.

 

Prior to that game (Games 1-21), the special team numbers were brutal!

Power Play @ 8.5% (6/71) and the Penalty Kill @ 72.7% (56/77)

Now beginning with that game (Games 22-37), the difference is quite dramatic!

Power Play @ 34.7% (17/49) and the Penalty Kill @ 91.9% (57/62)

 

Also throw in a league-leading 7 shorthanded goals which aren't taken into consideration in special team statistical calculations.

 

Here is a graphical representation of the turnaround:

 

[Kulstad]

The turnaround has been amazing to watch.  You can definitely pinpoint when the guys actually figured out GG's systems and started to click as a team.  There's still some bumps and brainfarts to work through, but I honestly don't recall seeing the special teams (especially the PP) look this dangerous for a very, very long time.

 

Out of curiosity, could you include the league high, league low, and league average in these graphs?

[cross16]

I've really bought into the new idea of combining your PP and PK percentages with the goal of being above 100 because I think reality is you need to be good at both and you need your special teams to be giving you a chance. Being over 100 seems to provide a good benchmark in terms of juding the overal effectiveness of your specials teams and typically if you can be above 100 your it means your special teams are giving you a chance every night.

 

to highlight this, and also to underscore how badly the Flames have struggled on special teams over the years I took a look back at the last 10 years of special teams results for the Flames:

Using the 100 benchmark, they were only over that 3 times in the last 10 years. 1 of these was the lockout shortned year too (not as impressive as keeping it consistent over 82 games)

They had a top 10 PP 2 times in that span and one of them was the lockout season. 

 

Flames special teams are alot of fun to watch right now and you can tell its been a very long time since you've been able to say that. Best part for me, is if you just look at how they are executing they are not giving you any indication that this is a blip or just a "streak". Obviously I do not expect them to maintain the 30% effectivness rate on the PP all season but I also don't see them dropping down to say 10-15%. This is a very good PP. 

[travel_dude]

On 12/24/2016 at 2:34 PM, travel_dude said:

I think credit is due to the coaches for recognizing that you can use 4 forwards on a PP unit and have success.  We actually have a good 1-2 punch.

Johnny/Versteeg and Brodie on the point for one unit and Gio/Hammy for another.  The first unit has the skill down low, and the 2nd unit has the lethal point shots or the rovers.

 

I have been a proponent of using 4f and 1d for one of the units, but it seems lately that the traditional unit is working better.  I like the creativity of the 1st unit, but find Brodie frustrating on it.  He is a great guy to have on there as a playmaker, but there are zero shots from the point unless it's Johnny or Versteeg.  I'm not a big fan of Wideman on the PP, but at least he will shoot.  An alternate to the 4f 1d setup could be splitting Gio and Hamilton up for the PP.

 

Unit 1

Johnny-Monahan-Versteeg

Brodie-Hamilton

 

Unit 2

Bennett(Tkachuk/Ferland)-Backlund-Frolik

Gio-Wideman

 

I think we are fine because we are still clicking, but we can't always get 4 or 6 PP in a game.  

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I have been a proponent of using 4f and 1d for one of the units, but it seems lately that the traditional unit is working better.  I like the creativity of the 1st unit, but find Brodie frustrating on it.  He is a great guy to have on there as a playmaker, but there are zero shots from the point unless it's Johnny or Versteeg.  I'm not a big fan of Wideman on the PP, but at least he will shoot.  An alternate to the 4f 1d setup could be splitting Gio and Hamilton up for the PP.

 

Unit 1

Johnny-Monahan-Versteeg

Brodie-Hamilton

 

Unit 2

Bennett(Tkachuk/Ferland)-Backlund-Frolik

Gio-Wideman

 

I think we are fine because we are still clicking, but we can't always get 4 or 6 PP in a game.  

 

I like the 1-3-1 PP, I just don't think we have the right players on it. I think it is time to move Tkachuk to the first unit in place of Brouwer/Chiasson. Park him in front of the net, the perk with Tkachuk is that he can also swing low below the goal line and make the pass to Monahan in the slot.

[MAC331]

9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I like the 1-3-1 PP, I just don't think we have the right players on it. I think it is time to move Tkachuk to the first unit in place of Brouwer/Chiasson. Park him in front of the net, the perk with Tkachuk is that he can also swing low below the goal line and make the pass to Monahan in the slot.

I tend to agree with using Tkachuk as more of a weapon. I know GG is trying to shelter him to a degree while he learns but he is like trying to hold a horse back when it wants to run. I hope to see him come off Backlund's line and be given the opportunities you mention here.

Actually you know what I would like to see is these two lines.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, lets see what he can do with these players on RW.

Bennett, Backlund, Frolik, I'm not sure Bennett is going to pan out at C and maybe LW is where he belongs with two experienced vets.

Versteeg, Stajan, Brouwer or Chiasson for a 3rd line.

Ferland, Hamilton, Hathaway as the 4th line.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I like the 1-3-1 PP, I just don't think we have the right players on it. I think it is time to move Tkachuk to the first unit in place of Brouwer/Chiasson. Park him in front of the net, the perk with Tkachuk is that he can also swing low below the goal line and make the pass to Monahan in the slot.

Maybe the simplest answer is the best.  Use the top blueliners on the top unit.  Use Brodie on the 2nd unit.  You can keep the 1-3-1 setup.  Keep Versteeg on the top unit.

If you want Chaisson playing any PP time, use him as the 4th F on the Backlund unit.  Or not.

[Pyromancer]

PP moves up into 10th place (28/135 - 20.74%)       PK moves up to 15th (124/152 - 81.58%)

Dashed line on PP chart is PP-Avg for Pacific Division teams (156/851 - 18.33%)

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

10 hours ago, Pyromancer said:

PP moves up into 10th place (28/135 - 20.74%)       PK moves up to 15th (124/152 - 81.58%)

Dashed line on PP chart is PP-Avg for Pacific Division teams (156/851 - 18.33%)

Gosh its not even funny how dreadful our special teams were to start the season, quite the turn around we have seen.

 

Im glad to see most of the pitchforks have been put away after that start.