What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

[cross16]

I can't link it as I don't subscribe to the Athletic, but Pierre Lebrun today hinted that he feels Tkachuk is asking for 5 years where the Flames want either shorter or longer. 5 years only buys 1 UFA year so Flames trying to avoid this scenario. 

 

Not ground breaking in the slightest......

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I can't link it as I don't subscribe to the Athletic, but Pierre Lebrun today hinted that he feels Tkachuk is asking for 5 years where the Flames want either shorter or longer. 5 years only buys 1 UFA year so Flames trying to avoid this scenario. 

 

Not ground breaking in the slightest......

 

Yes, that it the word out there.

Term is an issue if you are paying over $7m for just 5 years.

 

[JTech780]

Interesting to see how Clayton Keller's new deal shakes up the market. He jumped the que a whole year early. 8 years at $7.15AAV.

 

If Tkachuk uses that as a comparable he probably would be looking for quite a bit more than that on an 8 year deal.

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Interesting to see how Clayton Keller's new deal shakes up the market. He jumped the que a whole year early. 8 years at $7.15AAV.

 

If Tkachuk uses that as a comparable he probably would be looking for quite a bit more than that on an 8 year deal.

 

Ya interesting deal for Keller.  

 

I think between Aho's $8.45 x 5 and Keller's $7.15 x 8, that's Tkachuk's range.  I don't think Tkachuk belongs in the same conversation as Marner who could get upwards $10.5.  Tkachuk just isn't a 100-point player.

[Irocke99]

Chucky is 21. He's only going to get stronger, physically and in his sneaky hockey IQ attributes. Which is scary. I think he's worthy of Franchise Player Money. He, does everything well at 21.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Interesting to see how Clayton Keller's new deal shakes up the market. He jumped the que a whole year early. 8 years at $7.15AAV.

 

If Tkachuk uses that as a comparable he probably would be looking for quite a bit more than that on an 8 year deal.

 

I agree.

If we were lucky enough to get that deal, I think everyone except Tkachuk would be over the moon.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, Irocke99 said:

Chucky is 21. He's only going to get stronger, physically and in his sneaky hockey IQ attributes. Which is scary. I think he's worthy of Franchise Player Money. He, does everything well at 21.

 

I feel like franchise players tip the game the other way. I don’t think Tkachuk is dominant in that way. He’s good, but not dominant good. He’s not like Gaudreau where he can drive the play. Tkachuk requires someone else to help him do that.

 

i am not saying he’s a slouch, just that he’s not as much as a play driver as others claim. 

[redfire11]

5 hours ago, Irocke99 said:

Chucky is 21. He's only going to get stronger, physically and in his sneaky hockey IQ attributes. Which is scary. I think he's worthy of Franchise Player Money. He, does everything well at 21.

I don't feel Thackuk is even close to being a top 30 (maybe squeaks in on the 50) player in the NHL which would be a requirement to be a franchise player.

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I feel like franchise players tip the game the other way. I don’t think Tkachuk is dominant in that way. He’s good, but not dominant good. He’s not like Gaudreau where he can drive the play. Tkachuk requires someone else to help him do that.

 

i am not saying he’s a slouch, just that he’s not as much as a play driver as others claim. 

Absolutely agree Rob; Love Tkachuk as a player but could never expect him to carry a team.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I feel like franchise players tip the game the other way. I don’t think Tkachuk is dominant in that way. He’s good, but not dominant good. He’s not like Gaudreau where he can drive the play. Tkachuk requires someone else to help him do that.

 

i am not saying he’s a slouch, just that he’s not as much as a play driver as others claim. 

 

We all have opinions.

Seeing that he scores with Backlund and whomever at 5v5 and with JH on 5V4, I would say he drives play more than you give credit.

3 of 4 of Backlund's best seasons have been with Tkachuk.

Without Tkachuk, how many assists would Backlund get?

And we aren;t always talking about perfect passes for a tap in here.

[Carty]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

We all have opinions.

Seeing that he scores with Backlund and whomever at 5v5 and with JH on 5V4, I would say he drives play more than you give credit.I would ask who 

3 of 4 of Backlund's best seasons have been with Tkachuk.

Without Tkachuk, how many assists would Backlund get?

And we aren;t always talking about perfect passes for a tap in here.

 

Agreed TD...   Tkachuck is only 21 years old and you can already see it coming...   My bet is that he is a future captain...

 

For the naysayers, I would ask who else they might think we have on the roster that they would say might be a better fit for the role when considering passion, heart and soul, and all of the other necessary talents to fit the role?...

 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Tkachuk is by no means flashy, but they were saying on 960 he's the Flames top possession player on the Flames since he arrived, pretty large sample size, definition of a play driver. 

 

My guess all along has been a 6 year term, Tkachuk caves a little on term and BT caves a little on $. My guess is 8.5-8.75x6

[Irocke99]

2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Tkachuk is by no means flashy, but they were saying on 960 he's the Flames top possession player on the Flames since he arrived, pretty large sample size, definition of a play driver. 

 

My guess all along has been a 6 year term, Tkachuk caves a little on term and BT caves a little on $. My guess is 8.5-8.75x6

I think Chucky Caves too. He's, in a tough position. He, doesn't want to take more and disrespect the Vets. But, at the same time wants to make bank on his progress. 

[Irocke99]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

We all have opinions.

Seeing that he scores with Backlund and whomever at 5v5 and with JH on 5V4, I would say he drives play more than you give credit.

3 of 4 of Backlund's best seasons have been with Tkachuk.

Without Tkachuk, how many assists would Backlund get?

And we aren;t always talking about perfect passes for a tap in here.

 

[Irocke99]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I feel like franchise players tip the game the other way. I don’t think Tkachuk is dominant in that way. He’s good, but not dominant good. He’s not like Gaudreau where he can drive the play. Tkachuk requires someone else to help him do that.

 

i am not saying he’s a slouch, just that he’s not as much as a play driver as others claim. 

He's, not that way yet. He's going to be though.

[Irocke99]

Chucky, has been playing with a defensive center for 3 years.  That has to show that he can play with anyone and excel. 

[Irocke99]

Chucky, I think will drive our team to win for as long as he's here.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Carty said:

 

Agreed TD...   Tkachuck is only 21 years old and you can already see it coming...   My bet is that he is a future captain...

 

For the naysayers, I would ask who else they might think we have on the roster that they would say might be a better fit for the role when considering passion, heart and soul, and all of the other necessary talents to fit the role?...

 

 

 

I don’t think you have to be elite to be a captain. Look at some captains. Captain doesn’t always mean best on the team. 

25 minutes ago, Irocke99 said:

He's, not that way yet. He's going to be though.

 

Hopefully. I just see him as a good leader and a very good complimentary player. 

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We all have opinions.

Seeing that he scores with Backlund and whomever at 5v5 and with JH on 5V4, I would say he drives play more than you give credit.

3 of 4 of Backlund's best seasons have been with Tkachuk.

Without Tkachuk, how many assists would Backlund get?

And we aren;t always talking about perfect passes for a tap in here.

 

I think he better get those points being in those positions. I think Backs pushes play and made Colborne and Bouma mildly rich. Tkachuk has played with possession players since entering the league, he will have stellar stats. 

 

Look, I am not saying he’s not really good, I am just saying I don’t think he can push a line on his own. 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t think you have to be elite to be a captain. Look at some captains. Captain doesn’t always mean best on the team. 

 

Hopefully. I just see him as a good leader and a very good complimentary player. 

 

I think he better get those points being in those positions. I think Backs pushes play and made Colborne and Bouma mildly rich. Tkachuk has played with possession players since entering the league, he will have stellar stats. 

 

Look, I am not saying he’s not really good, I am just saying I don’t think he can push a line on his own. 

 

Backlund played 52 games for 27 points, while Bouma played 82 and 34 points.

Not exactly pushing play for 32 games.

The year before, Backlund had 39 points to Colborne's 27.

Backlund was the top line center with Cammi.

Was Colborne up there?

Don't think so.

IIRC, Hudler played with Monahan and Colborne.

 

Tkachuk has amazing vision and ability to hold onto the puck, frustrate players and scoare goals.

How does that not drive the play.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Backlund played 52 games for 27 points, while Bouma played 82 and 34 points.

Not exactly pushing play for 32 games.

The year before, Backlund had 39 points to Colborne's 27.

Backlund was the top line center with Cammi.

Was Colborne up there?

Don't think so.

IIRC, Hudler played with Monahan and Colborne.

 

Tkachuk has amazing vision and ability to hold onto the puck, frustrate players and scoare goals.

How does that not drive the play.

 

I think we are getting lost in the definition. I see driving play as a guy that skates it up the ice, uses his guys, McKinnon-esque, Gaudreau, etc. Does he have elite hockey IQ? I’d say yes. But without someone who can skate with it he’s probably not going to get as far.

[Going4TheCup]

if Treliving doesn't clear up some cap space I think he should sign Tkachuk to a Bridge deal, not sure for how much though.

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, Going4TheCup said:

if Treliving doesn't clear up some cap space I think he should sign Tkachuk to a Bridge deal, not sure for how much though.

 

Friedman and Boomer debated this.

Boomer felt it would allow CGY to have a good team in the short term.

Fredman thought it was a losing strategy, since all it means is you pay more in the end.

And he also pointed out that the days of 4m x 3 are gone.

Stamkos and Kucherov won;t happen now.

So, you pay 6-7 for 5.

Or 8 for 7 or something like that.

You do a bridge deal because you are not 100% sure the player will get any better.

A bridge will bumo into Gaudreau or Monahan's next deal.

[The_People1]

9 hours ago, Going4TheCup said:

if Treliving doesn't clear up some cap space I think he should sign Tkachuk to a Bridge deal, not sure for how much though.

 

But that's the thing though, the bridge deal doesn't exist anymore ever since Auston Matthews deal.  Basically, we're talking $7.5-mil for 1, 2, 3, or 4 years. If we want to buy UFA years, then that's extra.

[GM_3300]

21 hours ago, Irocke99 said:

Chucky is 21. He's only going to get stronger, physically and in his sneaky hockey IQ attributes. Which is scary. I think he's worthy of Franchise Player Money. He, does everything well at 21.

You could be right and with that in mind would it be better to stay short term while you clear out Giordano, Backlund and a few other considerations before rewarding Tkachuk with the real big ticket ? I see Tkachuk in the light of Corey Perry but right now Tkachuk is not the best player on this team.

[redfire11]

So Are we a play off team without Tkachuk in our lineup? - The answer is Yes

Are we a better playoff team with 7.5 m in free agents? The answer could be Yes depending on the players available.

Are we a better team paying Tkachuk 8 or 8.5 or 9 this season and the next few. I think the answer is No

Sitting Tkachuk for a year might be the best thing for the Flames and the League.

[robrob74]

9 hours ago, GM_3300 said:

You could be right and with that in mind would it be better to stay short term while you clear out Giordano, Backlund and a few other considerations before rewarding Tkachuk with the real big ticket ? I see Tkachuk in the light of Corey Perry but right now Tkachuk is not the best player on this team.

 

 

That’s  how I feel too. He’s not the best player on the team. I think he is the 4th best and the 3rd best forward on the team. 

 

Is he better than Giordano, or do we not count D? 

 

He isnt better than Gaudreau. 

 

Is he better than Monahan? 

 

I overall all I wonder if he is better than Backlund. I think he will be in the end. But I don’t think people give Backs enough credit. I think they both make each other better. 

 

I dont buy the Tkachuk is elite because of his contributions on the top 2 lines. He couldn’t make The 2nd line work as well without Frolik. He got a lot of points on PP1. Again, I am not saying he doesn’t have great hockey IQ. 

 

I reserve elite status to Crosby, Malkin, MacKinnon, or Gaudreau, or players of that caliber. Those guys can skate it, take it to a team almost by themselves. Tkachuk can’t do that. He was even one of the worst snooze-fest players in the playoffs last season. 

 

I want to see more from him. Until then I won’t call him elite.