What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

[xstrike]

Tkachuk had been so impressive to me. I'm rather glad we kept him up. I'll admit I was one of the people who thought he should go back to  junior at first. 

[MAC331]

6 hours ago, xstrike said:

Tkachuk had been so impressive to me. I'm rather glad we kept him up. I'll admit I was one of the people who thought he should go back to  junior at first. 

He has been a sparkplug for sure. It will be a learning/development year for him, either way he will be an even better player for us next season. Right now I would like to see more progress out of Bennett and Monahan.

[Carty]

Sure looks like he is ready to me...   Pretty hard not to be impressed with his contributions so far...

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Carty said:

Sure looks like he is ready to me...   Pretty hard not to be impressed with his contributions so far...

 

 

He's also pretty big for a young-un.  Man-sized wonder boy.  

[jjgallow]

On 25/11/2016 at 2:35 AM, xstrike said:

Tkachuk had been so impressive to me. I'm rather glad we kept him up. I'll admit I was one of the people who thought he should go back to  junior at first. 

 

I still am    But I'm just annoying that way.

 

He is very much impressing the way that Monahan did his first season.  And, admittedly, maybe just very slightly better.

 

Remember how we all thought, at the time...oh wow, we just Had to play Monahan that first season?  Rather than let him develop one more year properly?

 

Do we still think we had to?  Has that Monahan project been a 100% success?

 

Or, for that matter, the Oilers over the last decade?  Any....learnings there?

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I still am    But I'm just annoying that way.

 

He is very much impressing the way that Monahan did his first season.  And, admittedly, maybe just very slightly better.

 

Remember how we all thought, at the time...oh wow, we just Had to play Monahan that first season?  Rather than let him develop one more year properly?

 

Do we still think we had to?  Has that Monahan project been a 100% success?

 

Or, for that matter, the Oilers over the last decade?  Any....learnings there?

 

And you think he would have learned anything on that team in junior?  They were terrible.

Is it possible that the first three years of Monahan's career is typical of the skill level he has.  This year is an outlier for the offence, but similar defensive struggles to the other years.  Doubt he would have become that much better playing a year or two more in juniors.

 

Tkachuk is playing much more of a complete NHL game now.  He is less of a goal scorer right now, but is playing some of the best hockey on this team.  He's man-sized, not just tall.  He's not playing like Marner, getting plums.  I don't have a problem with him playing on this team.

 

The NHL is different now.  Players took years to get here in the past.  Only the top players came right out of the draft to play.  Now it's more common, as there is opportunity and the cap necessitate using cheap players.  Is it the right decision?  Ask the majority of NHL GM's.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 Is it the right decision?  Ask the majority of NHL GM's.

 

The majority of NHL GMs will absolutely tell you that it's better to keep the player in junior.

 

Given the opportunity, some will go do the opposite.   But, like you say, it's more of a money decision than a hockey decision.   And that's unfortunate.

 

As for Monahan and defence:   I think it is a difficult arguement to make, that defence is an innate skill.   Either way, everything you're saying about Tkachuck now, includuing "complete hockey", was being said about Monahan, by everyone on here, in his rookie season.

[travel_dude]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

The majority of NHL GMs will absolutely tell you that it's better to keep the player in junior.

 

Given the opportunity, some will go do the opposite.   But, like you say, it's more of a money decision than a hockey decision.   And that's unfortunate.

 

As for Monahan and defence:   I think it is a difficult arguement to make, that defence is an innate skill.   Either way, everything you're saying about Tkachuck now, includuing "complete hockey", was being said about Monahan, by everyone on here, in his rookie season.

 

As a GM, it's pretty hard to ignore a rookie that is playing better than 90% of the team.  You want to do what's best, but what kind of message does it send the team or the other prospects that the best player has to go back to junior.   It's not just the GM an owner that wants to make the playoffs.  Personally I feel it's a case by case decision.  

 

You can't really compare Monahan to Tkachuk.  Monahan was not good in many categories; skating, faceoffs, possession, etc.  And he was a slighter player.  But he was a sniper.  Tkachuk has been good in everything except NHL speed and scoring ability.  He drives the play as much as Frolik or Backlund.  

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The majority of NHL GMs will absolutely tell you that it's better to keep the player in junior.

 

Given the opportunity, some will go do the opposite.   But, like you say, it's more of a money decision than a hockey decision.   And that's unfortunate.

 

As for Monahan and defence:   I think it is a difficult arguement to make, that defence is an innate skill.   Either way, everything you're saying about Tkachuck now, includuing "complete hockey", was being said about Monahan, by everyone on here, in his rookie season.

Just because a player has all the tools and ability doesn't mean they cannot be enhanced so the player is better for NHL level of play. Tkachuk has done well but it has come without him taking some punishment. All of our young core could be named as players who still have a lot to learn before this team wins consistently.

[cross16]

17 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

The majority of NHL GMs will absolutely tell you that it's better to keep the player in junior.

 

Given the opportunity, some will go do the opposite.   But, like you say, it's more of a money decision than a hockey decision.   And that's unfortunate.

 

 

I don't agree it is a money decision its a lack of options decision. Monahan and Tkachuk are great examples of the broken development model currently in place. Both were too good to be sent to Junior and I think in both cases it was as likely you would actually do harm to them than actually help. While they both had things to learn both were clearly past the quality of compeititon that Junior could provide and I think you have to be very weary of bad habits that junior hockey teaches you when you are dealing with highly skilled players.

In a perfect workd you'd send Monahan and Tkachuk to the AHL becuase they need the high quality of competition but you'd ideally like to see them work on their games not in the NHL. Problem is with players like that you are stuck with either the NHL or junior and thats not a great choice. I read this somewhere but someone is proposing that the NHL allows a clause were you can send 1 or 2 "exceptional" players a season to the AHL instead of sending them back to junior and I think that would be the best way to go. 

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I read this somewhere but someone is proposing that the NHL allows a clause were you can send 1 or 2 "exceptional" players a season to the AHL instead of sending them back to junior and I think that would be the best way to go. 

 

It makes no sense this rule only applies to WHL players where players drafted from Europe like Kylington can play AHL at 18.  Can US kids drafted out of High School except as well so they can play AHL at 18?  As the NHL grows in the USA and around the world, we are going to see increasingly more 18 year olds enter the AHL so, i think the WHL will need to evolve to adapt.

[cross16]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It makes no sense this rule only applies to WHL players where players drafted from Europe like Kylington can play AHL at 18.  Can US kids drafted out of High School except as well so they can play AHL at 18?  As the NHL grows in the USA and around the world, we are going to see increasingly more 18 year olds enter the AHL so, i think the WHL will need to evolve to adapt.

 

I assume by WHL you mean CHL as its a CHL wide rule not just specific to the WHL. I get it from the CHL's persepctive becuase they do not want to lose all the talent they just spent 2 years developing, right when it hits its peak. So I think the rule makes sense for the CHL but I do think there needs to be some modifications made. Personally I favor the 19 year old draft but that's a whole seperate debate. 

 

Yes they can, but they need to be careful there. As soon as you play in the AHL you lose your eligiblity for the NCAA so that is why you are not seeing alot of, and IMO won't, see alot of kids jump from High School to the AHL. Its not a healthy development model and the risk of losing your ability to play int he NCAA really isn't worth it for the vast majority of kids coming out of high school hockey. 

[robrob74]

With an older draft, the older they are, the younger their competition might be. Although there are only a few exceptional players every year and many still play junior the year after they're drafted. 

 

Would Yakupov still get drafted 1st overall had he went a year later?

just an example.

[zima]

I'm  huge fan of Mr T but was not a fan of his head to the face of an opponent dirty shot. I enjoy his competitiveness and his gritty play he is a big part of this team but you just can't do that to any one even MMA frowns on that type of assassin mentality just not called for I hope he gets some kind of message sent to him by NHL gods. On the other hand keep up the good work on all other aspects of your game just play fair and clean.    

[Carty]

Tkachuk is tied with Hamilton for most assists with 19 and has 8 goals so far...

[AlbertaBoy12]

31 minutes ago, LAkid said:

Slow clap, Hamilton's a Defenceman.

Hes also got 27 points, second to brent burns in the division. 

[Carty]

57 minutes ago, LAkid said:

Slow clap, Hamilton's a Defenceman.

 

Point being that for a kid that just turned 19 a month ago and for a player that a lot of people thought was a year or two away from earning a spot, he's doing a pretty damn fine job...   He also brings grit, and that is an element that the team has been short on...   He doesn't back down from anyone...

 

Hammy was just for comparing points this season on the Flames, but keep in mind he rates 9th overall in the league for defensemen...

[Flyerfan52]

I'm gonna eat some crow here.

I didn't want Matt Tkachuk based on his father & after the draft wanted him left in junior until we could use him as a trade asset.

 

The kid has surprised me. He's more NHL ready than I expected & also seems more mature. He looks like a keeper.

 

I imagine crow is rather dry & stringy so could I have some dipping sauce with that please.

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'm gonna eat some crow here.

I didn't want Matt Tkachuk based on his father & after the draft wanted him left in junior until we could use him as a trade asset.

 

The kid has surprised me. He's more NHL ready than I expected & also seems more mature. He looks like a keeper.

 

I imagine crow is rather dry & stringy so could I have some dipping sauce with that please.

 

 

He's been a pleasant surprise for sure.  I wanted him to go back to Junior as well to get stronger and learn some more from the London Knights system.  I felt early into the season he was trying to run over everything in his path and was obviously not strong enough.  He was falling quite a bit.  Since December, it appears he has toned it down and he is picking his spots a lot better.  And he is getting stronger as the season progresses which means there must be a big commitment to the weight room in addition to learning the game at NHL speeds.

 

And that shot.  He's going to be quite the sniper.  You can see that flash of raw talent and his obvious desire to get better every game.

 

I like the fact they've kept him on a line with Backlund and Frolik all season.  It's given him two hard working veterans who can cover for his mistakes and they have given him stability learning the game shift to shift without having to worry about adjusting to new linemates every game.

 

Given how average Puljujarvi has looked and how Pierre Luc Dubios isn't putting up impressive numbers in Juniors this year, it appears the Flames may have gotten away with the 3rd best player from the draft.

[Flyerfan52]

41 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

He's been a pleasant surprise for sure.  I wanted him to go back to Junior as well to get stronger and learn some more from the London Knights system.  I felt early into the season he was trying to run over everything in his path and was obviously not strong enough.  He was falling quite a bit.  Since December, it appears he has toned it down and he is picking his spots a lot better.  And he is getting stronger as the season progresses which means there must be a big commitment to the weight room in addition to learning the game at NHL speeds.

 

And that shot.  He's going to be quite the sniper.  You can see that flash of raw talent and his obvious desire to get better every game.

 

I like the fact they've kept him on a line with Backlund and Frolik all season.  It's given him two hard working veterans who can cover for his mistakes and they have given him stability learning the game shift to shift without having to worry about adjusting to new linemates every game.

 

Given how average Puljujarvi has looked and how Pierre Luc Dubios isn't putting up impressive numbers in Juniors this year, it appears the Flames may have gotten away with the 3rd best player from the draft.

Do you want 1/2 my crow? I'll share it willingly.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'm gonna eat some crow here.

I didn't want Matt Tkachuk based on his father & after the draft wanted him left in junior until we could use him as a trade asset.

 

The kid has surprised me. He's more NHL ready than I expected & also seems more mature. He looks like a keeper.

 

I imagine crow is rather dry & stringy so could I have some dipping sauce with that please.

 

Like anything else we eat, my bet is the crow tastes as good as the food it has been eating days before you eat it.

[robrob74]

56 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

 

Given how average Puljujarvi has looked and how Pierre Luc Dubios isn't putting up impressive numbers in Juniors this year, it appears the Flames may have gotten away with the 3rd best player from the draft.

 

It could be a bit too early to tell. It is only the first year after.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'm gonna eat some crow here.

I didn't want Matt Tkachuk based on his father & after the draft wanted him left in junior until we could use him as a trade asset.

 

The kid has surprised me. He's more NHL ready than I expected & also seems more mature. He looks like a keeper.

 

I imagine crow is rather dry & stringy so could I have some dipping sauce with that please.

 

I thought that his stock rose because of the Memorial Cup games.  When the Flames said he was the one they had targeted at the start of the draft, I was skeptical.  I believed that Puljujarvi was a much better choice, given the possible trade with CBJ.  

 

Tkachuk has been a big surprise for me.  Starting about 80% of the time in the D-zone, he and his linemates are controlling the play, possessing the puck, forechecking until they get it back and going to the net every shift.  We all know what Backlund/Frolk can do by themselves, but Tkachuk adds a new dimension they haven't had before on that line.  It's no longer a shut down line as it is the top line.  In fact, I would say that of the rookies, Tkachuk is given the hardest minutes.  If you gave him easier minutes or matchups, he would tear it up.

 

Whether Puljujarvi every becomes half the player that Tkachuk is today doesn't really matter.  He's more of an Eberle than a Tkachuk.  

[AlbertaBoy12]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I thought that his stock rose because of the Memorial Cup games.  When the Flames said he was the one they had targeted at the start of the draft, I was skeptical.  I believed that Puljujarvi was a much better choice, given the possible trade with CBJ.  

 

Tkachuk has been a big surprise for me.  Starting about 80% of the time in the D-zone, he and his linemates are controlling the play, possessing the puck, forechecking until they get it back and going to the net every shift.  We all know what Backlund/Frolk can do by themselves, but Tkachuk adds a new dimension they haven't had before on that line.  It's no longer a shut down line as it is the top line.  In fact, I would say that of the rookies, Tkachuk is given the hardest minutes.  If you gave him easier minutes or matchups, he would tear it up.

 

Whether Puljujarvi every becomes half the player that Tkachuk is today doesn't really matter.  He's more of an Eberle than a Tkachuk.  

Is it possible the flames wanted to trade up to get tkachuk as they were worried that he wouldnt fall to them? I dont remember the dialog that took up during the draft, I just remember the talk of a three way trade for calgary to move up to 3rd. Im honestly still suprised no one higher then us grabbed tkachuk.

[Carty]

3 hours ago, LAkid said:

Totally agree, he brings it.  He just  can't back it up quite just yet. I think Dubios and puljujarvi are better talents and the just need some time. 

 

Considering it is his first year and Tkachuck has more points so far this season than players Eberle, Hossa, Rakell, Oshie, Duchene, O'Reilly and Kopitar, he ain't doing too bad...