Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[YounGuns]

49 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Some of this is coaching no doubt, some is bad roster construction but mostly these players have not taken it upon themselves consistently to show up for 60 minutes and play for each other. This is what I mean by being ready to win as a team and this has to come from the players. Do we have the right group of players ? My answer is not yet.

 

OK...yeah I agree with you on this one.  I agree with pretty much everything you said.  Does consistency come from the players or from the coach?  Most likely both.  I agree a big part of our problem is that players are inconsistent, and for whatever reason our team seems to lack...the "passion to win"...I guess...for lack of a better term.  We just seem too complacent.  We're not mean enough, we're not driven enough, we're certainly not consistent enough, and in my opinion we're poorly coached.  We have a few exceptional players, and numerous players I would deem excellent, and then half the team just doesn't show up.

 

You're correct in that this off season is a big one for Treliving, but he dealt away quite a bit of his bargaining chips last year and we're not going to want to go two drafts consecutively without any picks, so I'm guessing he's going to want to hold on to those.  We're not going to be able to ship out our "extras" and get "impact players" in return.  And for the stud RFAs you typically overpay for those and end up regretting those contracts in 2 years.  Treliving has to do something, but he doesn't have much to work with, except for we do have some nice prospects to part with I guess.  But again, if he's looking to make a change - which we all agree is needed - the easiest and potentially most important change would be to the coaching staff.  You argue that we don't yet have the right players.  I would agree.  But do we have the right coach?  My answer is not yet.  And that to me is the more glaring and important piece right now.

[JTech780]

45 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

effective coaches have all had one trend.. if you're not playing well, you dont play .. ice time 

When BH was on a roll, he was benching players like Wideman.. Bennett.. johnny was on his way to the AHL before a night of popcorn and he never looked back.

GG i think needs to learn and apply that.. i get hes a players coach, but he has too much loyalty to some people.  "Letting them work it out " is fine at times, but it hurts the team if its done to extreme

yes he drops Ferland down a line from time to time.. he rotates the 4th line all the time ,   but there are players , at least at times, who get far too much ice time when they are dragging it .. and others who don't get rewarded with more when they're on a roll.. it was the one aspect of BH's good years that needs to come back.. earned not given

 

I forget which coach it was that Rhett Warrener referred to on 960, might have been LIndy Ruff.. who every game told his D core, that by the 2nd period he'd be rolling 2 pairs consistently , and it was up to them in the 1st period to show him which 2 pairs were gonna get it 

 

You need depth to be able to do that and we have no depth past the top 2 line and top 2 pairs.

[MAC331]

23 minutes ago, YounGuns said:

 

OK...yeah I agree with you on this one.  I agree with pretty much everything you said.  Does consistency come from the players or from the coach?  Most likely both.  I agree a big part of our problem is that players are inconsistent, and for whatever reason our team seems to lack...the "passion to win"...I guess...for lack of a better term.  We just seem too complacent.  We're not mean enough, we're not driven enough, we're certainly not consistent enough, and in my opinion we're poorly coached.  We have a few exceptional players, and numerous players I would deem excellent, and then half the team just doesn't show up.

 

You're correct in that this off season is a big one for Treliving, but he dealt away quite a bit of his bargaining chips last year and we're not going to want to go two drafts consecutively without any picks, so I'm guessing he's going to want to hold on to those.  We're not going to be able to ship out our "extras" and get "impact players" in return.  And for the stud RFAs you typically overpay for those and end up regretting those contracts in 2 years.  Treliving has to do something, but he doesn't have much to work with, except for we do have some nice prospects to part with I guess.  But again, if he's looking to make a change - which we all agree is needed - the easiest and potentially most important change would be to the coaching staff.  You argue that we don't yet have the right players.  I would agree.  But do we have the right coach?  My answer is not yet.  And that to me is the more glaring and important piece right now.

You can always change coaches but you better take into consideration that when BB and BT hired GG they wanted a certain method of systems incorporated for their team. If GG is staying true to these systems being implemented but not being executed by this group of players who is at fault ? You mention certain players having a good season wich does speak to the individual talents we have on this team but there are a number of parts still required. This is why I dispute the argument to simply blame coaching.

As a "team" the players have to play for each other but that is hard when you are weak in a number of areas given the other personel you have on your team. I think all of them need to go forward and grow another season together with some tweaks for sure.

[JTech780]

54 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

effective coaches have all had one trend.. if you're not playing well, you dont play .. ice time 

When BH was on a roll, he was benching players like Wideman.. Bennett.. johnny was on his way to the AHL before a night of popcorn and he never looked back.

GG i think needs to learn and apply that.. i get hes a players coach, but he has too much loyalty to some people.  "Letting them work it out " is fine at times, but it hurts the team if its done to extreme

yes he drops Ferland down a line from time to time.. he rotates the 4th line all the time ,   but there are players , at least at times, who get far too much ice time when they are dragging it .. and others who don't get rewarded with more when they're on a roll.. it was the one aspect of BH's good years that needs to come back.. earned not given

 

I forget which coach it was that Rhett Warrener referred to on 960, might have been LIndy Ruff.. who every game told his D core, that by the 2nd period he'd be rolling 2 pairs consistently , and it was up to them in the 1st period to show him which 2 pairs were gonna get it 

 

Also just to add to this, Hartley would sit a guy in the press box but not tell him why, so players would sit in the press box but have zero idea what they did or what they need to do better. I just don't see that as effective  coaching.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, YounGuns said:

 

Our bottom six have been frustrating, but if we can't be a playoff team - let alone a dominant team - in a year when everything else BUT our bottom 6 has gone incredibly well, then we're screwed.  We either have to face facts that it's the coach that needs to change, or we need massive changes to our line-up.  I'm going with the coach, because if its the core, then we're doomed for another 10 years of mediocrity.

 

This is an interesting part of the debate for me. You list positives, and there are quite a few actually, but the coach doesn't get credit? Then we list the negatives and we blame the coach for almost all of them?

 

Also not sure this season has gone incredibly well in any facet. Their 2nd paring has been terrible, their are 10th worst in shooting % at 5 on 5, 9th worst in shooting percentage overall and last I checked I believe they either lead the league in or are top 3 in, missed shots, blocked shots and posts hit. The only team in a playoff position in the NHL right now with a worse shooting % than the Flames is the Jackets and they are barely hanging on. 

 

 

[Pyromancer]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Also not sure this season has gone incredibly well in any facet. Their 2nd paring has been terrible, their are 10th worst in shooting % at 5 on 5, 9th worst in shooting percentage overall and last I checked I believe they either lead the league in or are top 3 in, missed shots, blocked shots and posts hit. The only team in a playoff position in the NHL right now with a worse shooting % than the Flames is the Jackets and they are barely hanging on.

 

We do lead the league in Total Missed Shots & Wide Shots by a fairly "wide" margin.

We also lead the league in Crossbars. Only 11th in Goalposts  & 3rd in Over The Net.

Gulutzan is not responsible for any of these missed shots.

 

 

However.........Maybe Gulutzan has our players intentionally missing the net in a ploy to throw off the goalie when in fact the missed shot is intended as a banked pass off the boards or glass to another player. If this is the case, Gulutzan is fully at fault.

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, Pyromancer said:

 

We do lead the league in Total Missed Shots & Wide Shots by a fairly "wide" margin.

We also lead the league in Crossbars. Only 11th in Goalposts  & 3rd in Over The Net.

Gulatzan is not responsible for any of these missed shots.

 

 

However.........Maybe Gulatzan has our players intentionally missing the net in a ploy to throw off the goalie when in fact the missed shot is intended as a banked pass off the boards or glass to another player. If this is the case, Gulatzan is fully at fault.

I think this is what cross has been trying to get across that our overall play has been good if we measure it by possession, carrying the play etc but if you can't capitalize what have you got. It gets magnified on the PP which has been a killer all season.

[rickross]

All in all the Flames likely aren't winning a Stanley Cup under GG. With that said is there any point dragging this out for another year of inconsistency? Struggling to earn the final wild card spot for yet another season just doesn't scream a ton of progression IMO. I agree the Flames play a more structured and possession based game under GG but who cares if the results are the same in the end? 

[Cowtownguy]

2 hours ago, rickross said:

All in all the Flames likely aren't winning a Stanley Cup under GG. With that said is there any point dragging this out for another year of inconsistency? Struggling to earn the final wild card spot for yet another season just doesn't scream a ton of progression IMO. I agree the Flames play a more structured and possession based game under GG but who cares if the results are the same in the end? 

Apparently, a possession game that results in struggling to earn a wild card spot is preferable to an unsustainable offensive style where you struggle to earn a wild card spot.

[cccsberg]

17 hours ago, Pyromancer said:

 

We do lead the league in Total Missed Shots & Wide Shots by a fairly "wide" margin.

We also lead the league in Crossbars. Only 11th in Goalposts  & 3rd in Over The Net.

Gulutzan is not responsible for any of these missed shots.

 

 

However.........Maybe Gulutzan has our players intentionally missing the net in a ploy to throw off the goalie when in fact the missed shot is intended as a banked pass off the boards or glass to another player. If this is the case, Gulutzan is fully at fault.

Didn't they actually also PRACTICE hitting the crossbar and in"?"

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, rickross said:

All in all the Flames likely aren't winning a Stanley Cup under GG. With that said is there any point dragging this out for another year of inconsistency? Struggling to earn the final wild card spot for yet another season just doesn't scream a ton of progression IMO. I agree the Flames play a more structured and possession based game under GG but who cares if the results are the same in the end? 

I guess both of you missed the lack of scoring and answers to some of the whys ? missed shots and stuff like that. A Coach can't shoot the puck for you. Maybe it is time to quit blaming the system and start blaming a lack of execution at times. This is where your inconsistencies come from ad it has been said many time we need some better players yet and we also need the good ones we have to keep growing and leading.

[cross16]

13 hours ago, rickross said:

All in all the Flames likely aren't winning a Stanley Cup under GG. 

 

Who are they going to win a cup under?

 

Is there a point in hiring yet another coach to fix problems that have been here for a decade? is there is a point in hiring another coach who is probably going to have a similar resume to Gulutzan?

 

[MAC331]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Who are they going to win a cup under?

 

Is there a point in hiring yet another coach to fix problems that have been here for a decade? is there is a point in hiring another coach who is probably going to have a similar resume to Gulutzan?

 

I would say unless there is known discontent between coach and players, then management should allow this team (with some changes) to continue to grow together.

[redfire11]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Who are they going to win a cup under?

 

Is there a point in hiring yet another coach to fix problems that have been here for a decade? is there is a point in hiring another coach who is probably going to have a similar resume to Gulutzan?

 

I have to agree with this as I too feel the Flames should not make a coaching change for the sake of change (it's too late for that). Changing out the bench assistants could be an option if a qualified HC is not found in the off season. We really don't have the resources to make any significant roster changes without gutting our core. So we don't have many options going forward.

[cross16]

26 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I have to agree with this as I too feel the Flames should not make a coaching change for the sake of change (it's too late for that). Changing out the bench assistants could be an option if a qualified HC is not found in the off season. 

 

This is all i'm getting at. I still think Gulutzan will get fired if the team misses the playoffs but it feels like a scapegoat to me and i'm done with the scapegoat model of firing people. If they think they can do better than by all means, i'm just not seeing the big upgrade out there on the coaching market that makes me want to get rid of Gulutzan. I would absolutely agree that if he stays you need to make a change on the staff. 

 

This being said i'm curious to see what happens in Carolina after the Francis news. I know the owner said he likes Peters so maybe nothing happens there but if Bill Peters became available I would be all over that. Maybe Treliving can work that previous Team Canada connection. 

[The_People1]

Mike Babcock coached the Leafs to the worst record in the NHL a couple years ago.  It just goes to show if you give a coach nothing much to work with, then you are not going to get much results regardless of how good a coach is.

 

Fans were over sold expectations from the Hamonic deal and BT miscalculated where this team is.  We just weren't ready to be trading away picks to win now.  And so unfortunately, GG may get fired if we miss the playoffs but it's not entirely his fault.  BT didn't put together a deserving roster.  We are still in search of a good bottom 6 and are 4 D and a young starting G away from Cup contending.

[The_People1]

47 minutes ago, cross16 said:

This being said i'm curious to see what happens in Carolina after the Francis news. I know the owner said he likes Peters so maybe nothing happens there but if Bill Peters became available I would be all over that. Maybe Treliving can work that previous Team Canada connection. 

 

I'm more curious to know if the new GM would be willing to trade some of their youth.  I'm sure BT will be all over that.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

This is all i'm getting at. I still think Gulutzan will get fired if the team misses the playoffs but it feels like a scapegoat to me and i'm done with the scapegoat model of firing people. If they think they can do better than by all means, i'm just not seeing the big upgrade out there on the coaching market that makes me want to get rid of Gulutzan. I would absolutely agree that if he stays you need to make a change on the staff. 

 

This being said i'm curious to see what happens in Carolina after the Francis news. I know the owner said he likes Peters so maybe nothing happens there but if Bill Peters became available I would be all over that. Maybe Treliving can work that previous Team Canada connection. 

 

If the symptoms of a bad team have been there over numerous coaches, then I wonder what the problem is. The players have turned over numerous times.  The coaches were picked by different people.  Either we are picking the wrong type of coach for a modern NHL team or the players are not right.  Or both.  I imagine that it will be a combo of a coaching change as well as players.  

[redfire11]

I'm just not sure the GG system works to the strengths of our players. Next year we either match a coach to our players or change out players to match the coach. That is why I see a coaching change as I believe BT has put together a solid team.

 

As a side note: What other team in the league would you trade straight across for the Flames  Players, coaching, farm system. contracts, payroll?

 

Toronto, Nashville, Carolina I might consider???

 

(might make a good topic if anyone is interested)

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

This is all i'm getting at. I still think Gulutzan will get fired if the team misses the playoffs but it feels like a scapegoat to me and i'm done with the scapegoat model of firing people. If they think they can do better than by all means, i'm just not seeing the big upgrade out there on the coaching market that makes me want to get rid of Gulutzan. I would absolutely agree that if he stays you need to make a change on the staff. 

 

This being said i'm curious to see what happens in Carolina after the Francis news. I know the owner said he likes Peters so maybe nothing happens there but if Bill Peters became available I would be all over that. Maybe Treliving can work that previous Team Canada connection. 

LeBrun tweeted the 'Canes have asked LA for permission to speak with Mike Futa.

 

Now can someone tell me how to embed a tweet, because I'm dusty. lol

[cccsberg]

4 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I have to agree with this as I too feel the Flames should not make a coaching change for the sake of change (it's too late for that). Changing out the bench assistants could be an option if a qualified HC is not found in the off season. We really don't have the resources to make any significant roster changes without gutting our core. So we don't have many options going forward.

BT/BB need to seriously review our current team and make two very big decisions:

1/ Has GG reached his peak and has his coaching inexperience/mediocrity been detrimental to the team's success?

2/ Is this core good enough to consistently win, and then be a top challenger for the Cup, even with the best of coaches?

 

I say YES and NO to those questions, so I think big changes are due.

[cccsberg]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Mike Babcock coached the Leafs to the worst record in the NHL a couple years ago.  It just goes to show if you give a coach nothing much to work with, then you are not going to get much results regardless of how good a coach is.

 

Fans were over sold expectations from the Hamonic deal and BT miscalculated where this team is.  We just weren't ready to be trading away picks to win now.  And so unfortunately, GG may get fired if we miss the playoffs but it's not entirely his fault.  BT didn't put together a deserving roster.  We are still in search of a good bottom 6 and are 4 D and a young starting G away from Cup contending.

Wow, that's negative... As far as Babcock goes, they sold the city on a crap season or two so that wasn't a problem.  He actually had the scrubs playing pretty well and the "tanking"...I mean intentional bottoming-out paid off in spades.

[cross16]

22 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I'm just not sure the GG system works to the strengths of our players.

 

So what is lacking here? What strengths is the system minimizing?

 

I ask because i'm not seeing it. I see a team where half the players are having career years or at least career norm years, 1 of their key players very snake bitten in Backlund, and the part of the roster that isn't very good you can look at them on paper and say they just aren't very good. 

 

I can see where this opinion would hinge and that would be on the 2nd pair of Brodie-Hamonic. I guess if you want to point to them as an example as the system not working I could see. personally i think it's more on them than they system but I could see where people would go with that. 

[MAC331]

18 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

BT/BB need to seriously review our current team and make two very big decisions:

1/ Has GG reached his peak and has his coaching inexperience/mediocrity been detrimental to the team's success?

2/ Is this core good enough to consistently win, and then be a top challenger for the Cup, even with the best of coaches?

 

I say YES and NO to those questions, so I think big changes are due.

Pretty tough question 1 when you build in those adjectives with your own opinion. He isn't inexperienced or he never would have been hired in the first place. Mediocrity is how you think the team has evolved which is middle of the pack, average at this stage. This would tell me he is nowhere near reaching his peak. This is why I say this is a group that could go forward and improve together.

In regards to your 2nd question my answer would be not yet because one of your better pieces Tkachuk is only going into his 3rd season, Bennett has not evolved as expected and Jankowski is still a rookie. Outside of Backlund, Frolik and Ferland the support group/experience level has not been good. Defensively we have a very good top pair in Giordano and Hamilton and now know Brodie and Hamonic are not great together. The question I would be asking is do you think Brodie and Hamonic could benefit the team in a positive way playing with other partners. Kulak has developed this season and is deserving of a spot next season.

I think it boils down to waiting out a few more of the core pieces to evolve fully, support them with better players and figure out the PP for better results.

[Cowtownguy]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

This is all i'm getting at. I still think Gulutzan will get fired if the team misses the playoffs but it feels like a scapegoat to me and i'm done with the scapegoat model of firing people. If they think they can do better than by all means, i'm just not seeing the big upgrade out there on the coaching market that makes me want to get rid of Gulutzan. I would absolutely agree that if he stays you need to make a change on the staff. 

 

This being said i'm curious to see what happens in Carolina after the Francis news. I know the owner said he likes Peters so maybe nothing happens there but if Bill Peters became available I would be all over that. Maybe Treliving can work that previous Team Canada connection. 

I really don't see GG getting fired this year. I believe they will grant him one more year. BT can only go through so many coaches before his head is in the guillotine. I agree that it looks really bad when Calgary is a coaching graveyard. It is also problematic when it looks like the inmates run the asylum. 

 

There are still problems with his coaching. Warrener was saying this morning that he needs to freakin' stop putting out the fourth line in the third period when down by two goals. The match ups are often odd and he makes timely mistakes (i.e. not calling an obvious time out etc.). We have been through that many times.

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

So what is lacking here? What strengths is the system minimizing?

 

I ask because i'm not seeing it. I see a team where half the players are having career years or at least career norm years, 1 of their key players very snake bitten in Backlund, and the part of the roster that isn't very good you can look at them on paper and say they just aren't very good. 

 

I can see where this opinion would hinge and that would be on the 2nd pair of Brodie-Hamonic. I guess if you want to point to them as an example as the system not working I could see. personally i think it's more on them than they system but I could see where people would go with that. 

I think that the most obvious problem is that we have a bunch of players from the Feaster era and many from the BT era. Feaster's players were selected on the basis of speed and general offensive talent. GG needs players with tenacity, determination, and grit. I suspect that a Feaster/Hartley player dies a little each time that they are expected to control the offensive zone rather than fly in and shoot. I doubt that a guy like Byron likes to back check. So, it is not that GG is a poor coach per se (apart from some glaring issues), it is more a case that he might not be appropriate for these players.