Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[tmac70]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Which isn't realistic. 

 

Penguins didn't show up last night, is their season over now too? do you think less of them?

They got beat in OT in a hard fought battle, and lost in a B2B.

 

So your saying this club is the same of equal to the Penguins, I totally disagree.  WE CAN NOT take a night off, This club has to be invested 100% of the time to get 55% return based on skill level.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

They got beat in OT in a hard fought battle, and lost in a B2B.

 

So your saying this club is the same of equal to the Penguins, I totally disagree.  WE CAN NOT take a night off, This club has to be invested 100% of the time to get 55% return based on skill level.

 

Teams have bad games, bad efforts and more than once in a season every team in the league has dud efforts where they fail to show up. I don't think the talent gap is big enough in this league for your point to make sense.

 

What I'm saying is that every team will have those types of efforts and expecting 100% out of everyone 100% of the time is unrealistic. 

[tmac70]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Teams have bad games, bad efforts and more than once in a season every team in the league has dud efforts where they fail to show up. I don't think the talent gap is big enough in this league for your point to make sense.

 

What I'm saying is that every team will have those types of efforts and expecting 100% out of everyone 100% of the time is unrealistic. 

So there in lies the problem if maximum effort is not expected than you get complacent. It really isn't realistic to expect maximum effort for 15 minutes a night in 30-45 second sessions.

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So there in lies the problem if maximum effort is not expected than you get complacent. It really isn't realistic to expect maximum effort for 15 minutes a night in 30-45 second sessions.

 

The only time that teams get complacent is when they believe that they can rely on skill alone.  We don't have that problem.  What we do have is players that may no show up some nights, for whatever reason (health, minor injury, frustration) that impact the team game.  Just because the top line is out there doesn't mean they are in a position to succeed.  If you are being forced to defend against McDavid's line for most of the night, you will not have fun.  Especially if you don't have control of the puck due to dump-ins or 50 foot clearing attempts by the defense.

 

Let's face it, we have some players that should not be out there.  We have other players that give their all, but they struggle defending or with possession.  It's not about leaving it out there on the ice for 82 games, it's about consistent play.  The playoff is the only time of the year where you see close to 100% effort from every player.  

[JTech780]

A lot of teams are playing a full court press type of game where there is speed and pressure all over the ice, a real up tempo type of game. Teams that play that way have the appearance of giving full effort a lot of nights. We don't have the players to play that type of game. We lack overall team speed, so we have to slow the game down, clog up lanes, grind out games. Our game is much more about positioning than pressure. I think that can give this team the appearance of not putting in the effort as we aren't about skating hard, more about being in the right place.

 

The game in Edmonton we lacked effort, but our lack of team speed was exposed, which is bad as outside of McDavid Edmonton isn't all that fast of a team. 

 

For all the good that Treliving has done for this team, he has failed to get players that give this team an identity. You can succeed as a slower team but you need skill with size, and you can succeed with smaller skill, but you need speed. We have skill but we don't have speed and our size and grit doesn't have skill. We are kind of middle ground.

 

GG is a very good coach, he just doesn't have the right tools for the job, so he is making due and doing the best with what he has.

[cross16]

44 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

So there in lies the problem if maximum effort is not expected than you get complacent. It really isn't realistic to expect maximum effort for 15 minutes a night in 30-45 second sessions.

 

Understanding that something is going to happen doens't mean you can't expect it. I expect a team to put forth their best effort every game I just don't panic or thinks it's a big deal if they don't because I know every once in a while that will happen. Key phrase is once in a while.  If we are having this converstion in another 4-5 games then by all means let's get concerned. 

(insert my disclaimer that I do not care about the pre season so the fact the effort wasn't great in the pre season doesn't mean anything to me)

[AlbertaBoy12]

55 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

They got beat in OT in a hard fought battle, and lost in a B2B.

 

So your saying this club is the same of equal to the Penguins, I totally disagree.  WE CAN NOT take a night off, This club has to be invested 100% of the time to get 55% return based on skill level.

I dont know if losing 10-1 is acceptable regardless of back to back. If that happened to the flames to start the season most people would be calling for GGs head. Why cant we be equal to the penguins? Because they won two b2b cups we cant be equal? or is the penguins team soooo much better then ours?

[DirtyDeeds]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Teams have bad games, bad efforts and more than once in a season every team in the league has dud efforts where they fail to show up. I don't think the talent gap is big enough in this league for your point to make sense.

 

What I'm saying is that every team will have those types of efforts and expecting 100% out of everyone 100% of the time is unrealistic. 

This was not just one game in a season ... it was our season opener. This night is not one you want to see 1 or 2 players show up. Smith and Glass showed up..

 

It is the coaches responsibilty to get the players ready. Same thing happened for our opener last seaspn and everyone just made up excuses for it.

New system

New players

New coach

JH contract holdout.

Mony injury

 

To name a few excuses.

 

We had no excuses this season. Coaches should have had the guys ready for war against our rival to north.

 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

We had no excuses this season. Coaches should have had the guys ready for war against our rival to north.

 

I think they were ready to play. They had a good first period and I think they were well prepared for how Edmonton was going to play.

 

coach can only do so much, it's up to the players to perform, win their battles and execute. That stopped happening after the first. 

[MAC331]

57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think they were ready to play. They had a good first period and I think they were well prepared for how Edmonton was going to play.

 

coach can only do so much, it's up to the players to perform, win their battles and execute. That stopped happening after the first. 

I'm glad you have the patience to keep answering these types of "personal feelings" posts by some people. LOL

[rickross]

4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Man you need to give the situation here time to evolve. I would say we are in the developing stage providing our core the experience they need in order to mature collectively to be consistent challengers. It seems constant change within the cap world is the only constant. You could take any team today and pick out where they are weak. This is why IMO the forward pairings need to be the right chemistries, we may never have an elite RW for our top line but if we have a good contributor the results should be good from the entire line. Maybe next season we have a pairing of Jankowski and Dube for another line. Personally I like where the team is heading.

Our defense outside of the 6th and 7th position is a very good group, slide Valimaki and Andersson into the mix next season and I really like our defense.

Our Goalies now Smith and Lack are good experienced layers that bridge us into a good prospect pool of goalies. I have to believe out of Gilles, Rittich, Parsons, Schneider and MacDonald we have someone good to step in.

I'm not saying we need to blow it up and start over, like I said we have some solid pieces already but the concensus seems to be that it still isn't enough. Whether we lack more high end skill, speed or that pure generational talent is what's up for debate. There's plenty of time for them to continue to mature but what I'm asking is can the Flames go the distance with this current core of players? We've forgone building from the draft at this point and BT has gambled that this group is good enough to get it done. Are the Flames just a few roster moves away from turning the corner? Or do we need that perennial player like Matthews or McDavid to take this core to that next level?

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I dont know if losing 10-1 is acceptable regardless of back to back. If that happened to the flames to start the season most people would be calling for GGs head. Why cant we be equal to the penguins? Because they won two b2b cups we cant be equal? or is the penguins team soooo much better then ours?

1) Talent./ Coaching/ Commitment 2) Making the playoffs is a victory our cup is winning a game 3) Yes, yes they are

[MAC331]

27 minutes ago, rickross said:

I'm not saying we need to blow it up and start over, like I said we have some solid pieces already but the concensus seems to be that it still isn't enough. Whether we lack more high end skill, speed or that pure generational talent is what's up for debate. There's plenty of time for them to continue to mature but what I'm asking is can the Flames go the distance with this current core of players? We've forgone building from the draft at this point and BT has gambled that this group is good enough to get it done. Are the Flames just a few roster moves away from turning the corner? Or do we need that perennial player like Matthews or McDavid to take this core to that next level?

My answer is success is just around the corner starting next season but more so in two. I am a strong believer in quality pairings for our forwards and our defense. It obvious we lack certain pieces which is why you sprinkle in short term pieces like Jagr and Versteeg or have Ferland being used in a not ideal position. I see a lot of this getting sorted out and some good prospects being ready to step in later this season but definitely next. I don't believe a generational talent is essential to win a SC no, you need a quality team that has quality depth to sustain itself.

[cccsberg]

10 hours ago, tmac70 said:

They got beat in OT in a hard fought battle, and lost in a B2B.

 

So your saying this club is the same of equal to the Penguins, I totally disagree.  WE CAN NOT take a night off, This club has to be invested 100% of the time to get 55% return based on skill level.

Personally I appreciate the BH team’s high motivation than this GG team’s inconsistent efforts.  Nobody is 110% effort all the time, agreed, but the current efforts seem a dangerous habit to be developing, especially if the talent level isn’t so much better than others that the team can just depend on that.

[cccsberg]

5 hours ago, rickross said:

I'm not saying we need to blow it up and start over, like I said we have some solid pieces already but the concensus seems to be that it still isn't enough. Whether we lack more high end skill, speed or that pure generational talent is what's up for debate. There's plenty of time for them to continue to mature but what I'm asking is can the Flames go the distance with this current core of players? We've forgone building from the draft at this point and BT has gambled that this group is good enough to get it done. Are the Flames just a few roster moves away from turning the corner? Or do we need that perennial player like Matthews or McDavid to take this core to that next level?

Although I agree with most of your sentiment, if we need to be waiting for a generational talent, and win him in a lottery you might as well give up hockey and get a new hobby.  

 

We’ve rebuilt and have a very good team still growing.  It would be nice though, if the coach/GM put the best players on the ice and spent a little more effort with motivation/butt-kicking.

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Although I agree with most of your sentiment, if we need to be waiting for a generational talent, and win him in a lottery you might as well give up hockey and get a new hobby.  

 

We’ve rebuilt and have a very good team still growing.  It would be nice though, if the coach/GM put the best players on the ice and spent a little more effort with motivation/butt-kicking.

What exactly do you think goes on in our dressing room ? We have played 1 game as a team and we lost 3-0 one of which was a good goal the other two bad mistakes. Let's get the kinks out before we start labeling our players as unmotivated players needing a coach to kick them in the butt every time we lose.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

What exactly do you think goes on in our dressing room ? We have played 1 game as a team and we lost 3-0 one of which was a good goal the other two bad mistakes. Let's get the kinks out before we start labeling our players as unmotivated players needing a coach to kick them in the butt every time we lose.

Seems like there is no trust in process.

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Seems like there is no trust in process.

We have become a society or fan base wanting instant gratification from the team we support. It is like when we lose it is the team's fault for their hurt feelings or something. LOL

Everyone is a critic and has an opinion which is fine.

I like where this team is at right now and I can see where this season can be used to sort out some situations for an even better team next season.

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

We have become a society or fan base wanting instant gratification from the team we support. It is like when we lose it is the team's fault for their hurt feelings or something. LOL

Everyone is a critic and has an opinion which is fine.

I like where this team is at right now and I can see where this season can be used to sort out some situations for an even better team next season.

 

It's fine to wave the pom poms.  It's also fine to criticize the system or the players' effort on any given night.  Everyone has the same right to post those opinions here.  We may not agree, but as fans we can say whatever we like without insult.  

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

It's fine to wave the pom poms.  It's also fine to criticize the system or the players' effort on any given night.  Everyone has the same right to post those opinions here.  We may not agree, but as fans we can say whatever we like without insult.  

Did I say something that contradicts that ? Have at it.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Seems like there is no trust in process.

More like a lack of understanding there is a process of maturity that has to happen and where the team is collectively within their own growth.

[DirtyDeeds]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

We have become a society or fan base wanting instant gratification from the team we support. It is like when we lose it is the team's fault for their hurt feelings or something. LOL

Everyone is a critic and has an opinion which is fine.

I like where this team is at right now and I can see where this season can be used to sort out some situations for an even better team next season.

After last years slow start everyone should be showing a sense of urgency. Coaches players... instead we show indifference in most of the preseason and everyone gifted them an excuse that preseason does not matter.

 

They did not come prepared to play Edmonton. I point at the coaches for that but the players could have played with more emotion and desire.

 

Flames could easily start this season 3-7 if they dont start playimg with some urgency.

 

I want to see some "hate to lose" and give 110% from this team.

 

[MAC331]

Just now, DirtyDeeds said:

After last years slow start everyone should be showing a sense of urgency. Coaches players... instead we show indifference in most of the preseason and everyone gifted them an excuse that preseason does not matter.

 

They did not come prepared to play Edmonton. I point at the coaches for that but the players could have played with more emotion and desire.

 

Flames could easily start this season 3-7 if they dont start playimg with some urgency.

 

I want to see dome "hate to lose" and give 110% from this team.

 

Don't we all

[redfire11]

Thanks GG you upped your game after the 1st period and so did everyone else.

[CheersMan]

We are 0-3 this season…… if not for Smith.  We are giving up 38.3 SA/game.  Our PK is passive, the Smith factor is making it look a lot better than what it is.  The drop pass on our PP when coming up the ice is a disaster.   Only been 3 games but this team needs to improve in many areas north of the net.