Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[MAC331]

Just now, rickross said:

You said it yourself. We were outshot 44-26, they had 18 quality shots to our 8. That's gotta be around 40% of their shots being high quality scoring chances, not only were they getting a ton of shots on us but that's a high percentage of scoring opportunities for them. If not for Mike Smith this could have turned into an embarrassment. The stats show how much we got outplayed like it or not. 

 

The blame falls on both sides, the players should have played better on both sides but the coaches should have also made the necessary adjustments on the fly. McLennan out coached GG in that sense. If the McDavid line is putting up half their high quality scoring attempts then obviously you need to change something on the defensive side. If your game plan isn't working then you should have a backup plan , great coaches adjust on the fly all the time.  Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? Oilers swept us last year and it's already off to a bad start this season, i expect better results this year. 

Go Flames Go

[rickross]

15 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think you have said so in a very round about way which is fine. As far as our window of 2 to 3 years, how are you defining this and for who ? what about the quality pipeline being developed, is this not for the purpose of icing a continuous contender ?

You can keep trying to put words in my mouth, it's not going to work. I didn't set this window to win now Brad Treliving did. He traded away those picks for a reason and he said himself the time to win is now. Look at our roster and contractual circumstances, our highly rated D corps has 3 years together, that's just common sense. Oh you want to talk about our pipeline of prospects that's yet to crack this team? GG has 2 years left on his contract so if he's the guy to do it he has 2 years to prove it. Ok how about this, why don't you elaborate on why you believe GG is THE coach for this team? What is it that has you so convinced he can get the job done and bring a Stanley a Cup back to Calgary? 

[rickross]

3 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Wow one game into a new season and we are back on this again.

I'll ask the same of you, what has u so convinced? What is it that you've seen that has you so compelled that GG is the coach that can take the Flames to that next level and win a cup?

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

The Flames were only outplayed by McDavid, and he is going to do that to most teams in the NHL for a long long time. The rest of the Oilers were just ok. I am not saying we played good, but we didn't get outplayed dramatically by the Oilers last night.

 

No team in the league is stopping that 2nd goal, Brodie is probably our best skater on the team and he looked like was skating in quicksand compared to McDavid. 

 

Brouwer was directly responsible for the other two goals.

 

I tend to agree.  Except I would add that the Flames didn't generate any offense against the other lines or defense.  If you line up Draisaitl on RW against our top line, you have Johnny going head-to-head against him.

On the 2nd goal, Brodie tends to play up, so there was no way he was going to catch McDavid.  Gio would have stayed back a bit, played the body and would have taken a penalty or PS.  Recognizing who is out there would be the first step.  

 

Overall, the Oilers played a marginal game.  One line was able to score or strip the puck.  The defense was able to make simple plays.  That's not a cup winning team right now.  They are a team that can beat about 1/2 the NHL teams.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

You can keep trying to put words in my mouth, it's not going to work. I didn't set this window to win now Brad Treliving did. He traded away those picks for a reason and he said himself the time to win is now. Look at our roster and contractual circumstances, our highly rated D corps has 3 years together, that's just common sense. Oh you want to talk about our pipeline of prospects that's yet to crack this team? GG has 2 years left on his contract so if he's the guy to do it he has 2 years to prove it. Ok how about this, why don't you elaborate on why you believe GG is THE coach for this team? What is it that has you so convinced he can get the job done and bring a Stanley a Cup back to Calgary? 

No worries your mouth and words define your thoughts very well. As I fan I think every year should be a SC year but reality will tell you it takes a lot of ingredients between talent, skill and experience to make it happen. I also believe it is the players that make the coach and by that the players have to believe in his system and execute it. I like what I see of the system and the style they want to play but I also see a team that has some maturing yet that must develop from a young core. This is a time where GG is going to be living with some deficiencies IMO. Is he THE coach ? I haven't said I think he is or isn't only because there is a lot to accomplish yet with this team.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, rickross said:

I'll ask the same of you, what has u so convinced? What is it that you've seen that has you so compelled that GG is the coach that can take the Flames to that next level and win a cup?

 

What makes you so convinced that the Flames have the collection of players to do it and i'ts only the coach holding them back as that seems to be the stance you are taking here?

 

Can GG win a cup who knows as there are so many factors that go into winning a cup and quite frankily I think the coach is a very small piece of that. When Pittsburgh hired Sullivan how much money would you put down that he would have won 2 cups in his first 2 years? When Quinville got fired in Colorado no one picked him up and he had to go be an advisor with the Hawks, now he's got 3 cups. 

 

I thought Gulutzan did a really good job last year of changing a mindset, installing a structure and a phenomenal job of managing the highs and lows of his player and relating to them. I think last season alone should give people alot of hope that the Flames have a good coach because there were a ton of positives and 1 bad game to start a season should erase all of that. For me the focus and the question more should be do the Flames have the players to win a cup because players win cups not coaches. I would question whether or not the Flames have the players and the group capable of winning a cup far more than I would question whether or not GG can win one. 

[rickross]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

What makes you so convinced that the Flames have the collection of players to do it and i'ts only the coach holding them back as that seems to be the stance you are taking here?

 

Can GG win a cup who knows as there are so many factors that go into winning a cup and quite frankily I think the coach is a very small piece of that. When Pittsburgh hired Sullivan how much money would you put down that he would have won 2 cups in his first 2 years? When Quinville got fired in Colorado no one picked him up and he had to go be an advisor with the Hawks, now he's got 3 cups. 

 

I thought Gulutzan did a really good job last year of changing a mindset, installing a structure and a phenomenal job of managing the highs and lows of his player and relating to them. I think last season alone should give people alot of hope that the Flames have a good coach because there were a ton of positives and 1 bad game to start a season should erase all of that. For me the focus and the question more should be do the Flames have the players to win a cup because players win cups not coaches. I would question whether or not the Flames have the players and the group capable of winning a cup far more than I would question whether or not GG can win one. 

Well that's the trillion dollar question. Can GG do it with this group of players? Bob Hartley accomplished more with a less talented team. Sure a lot of players had career years but doesn't some of that credit go to coaching? I'm not the GM of this team, realistically I'd think 3-5 years was closer to the actual window for this team but BT has gone out and acquired support and some prized assets for the coaches to manage. It's never 100% on the coach but like Redfire pointed out, the impact if a coach like Babcock can't be ignored. There are 2-3 years with the majority of this group intact including coaches, GG was brought in with the purpose of taking this team to the next level. We are a much improved team no doubt but I'd hesitate to say we've distinguished ourselves amongst the elite contenders in this league. Our team is young compared to Pittsburgh so I'd argue coaching is key for our group. Pens had already been there before Sullivan so those players already had an understanding of what it takes to win, Flames are in a different scenario. 

 

If if the argument is we don't have the right players to win then this has been an unsuccessful rebuild. I've never once said we have the right roster to win a cup, I'm basing this off the mandate this organization has placed to "win now" with the current core intact. If they believe the right pieces are in place, all it should take is the right coach to steer them through, right? At the very least they should be able to go deep in the playoffs, forget getting swept or not being able to get past the 2nd round. That's what BH accomplished and we haven't gone as deep since his tenure. Not saying BH was the guy but a lot has been invested in this team and expectations are much higher. I'm not questioning if GG is a good coach but rather is he the right coach?

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, rickross said:

Well that's the trillion dollar question. Can GG do it with this group of players? Bob Hartley accomplished more with a less talented team. Sure a lot of players had career years but doesn't some of that credit go to coaching? I'm not the GM of this team, realistically I'd think 3-5 years was closer to the actual window for this team but BT has gone out and acquired support and some prized assets for the coaches to manage. It's never 100% on the coach but like Redfire pointed out, the impact if a coach like Babcock can't be ignored. There are 2-3 years with the majority of this group intact including coaches, GG was brought in with the purpose of taking this team to the next level. We are a much improved team no doubt but I'd hesitate to say we've distinguished ourselves amongst the elite contenders in this league. Our team is young compared to Pittsburgh so I'd argue coaching is key for our group. Pens had already been there before Sullivan so those players already had an understanding of what it takes to win, Flames are in a different scenario. 

 

If if the argument is we don't have the right players to win then this has been an unsuccessful rebuild. I've never once said we have the right roster to win a cup, I'm basing this off the mandate this organization has placed to "win now" with the current core intact. If they believe the right pieces are in place, all it should take is the right coach to steer them through, right? At the very least they should be able to go deep in the playoffs, forget getting swept or not being able to get past the 2nd round. That's what BH accomplished and we haven't gone as deep since his tenure. Not saying BH was the guy but a lot has been invested in this team and expectations are much higher. I'm not questioning if GG is a good coach but rather is he the right coach?

I think will have to wait a while to find that out. I honestly don't see this team winning any SC this season mainly because this young core who are the stars have some maturing to do. If they were all to explode with the current mentors in place they could pull off a Cinderella season. I actually think we will be a better team next season.

[redfire11]

59 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

What makes you so convinced that the Flames have the collection of players to do it and i'ts only the coach holding them back as that seems to be the stance you are taking here?

 

Can GG win a cup who knows as there are so many factors that go into winning a cup and quite frankily I think the coach is a very small piece of that. When Pittsburgh hired Sullivan how much money would you put down that he would have won 2 cups in his first 2 years? When Quinville got fired in Colorado no one picked him up and he had to go be an advisor with the Hawks, now he's got 3 cups. 

 

I thought Gulutzan did a really good job last year of changing a mindset, installing a structure and a phenomenal job of managing the highs and lows of his player and relating to them. I think last season alone should give people alot of hope that the Flames have a good coach because there were a ton of positives and 1 bad game to start a season should erase all of that. For me the focus and the question more should be do the Flames have the players to win a cup because players win cups not coaches. I would question whether or not the Flames have the players and the group capable of winning a cup far more than I would question whether or not GG can win one. 

Do we have the players to win a cup? Truthful answer NO!!  Do we have the players to be highly competitive?  YES!!

Do we have a coach to win a cup? Truthful answer NO!!  Do we have a coach to be highly competitive?  After last night performance??

The players and the Coach had a bad game. Now it is up to GG to do his best on his end to ensure the players have a good performance against WPG.

[cross16]

21 minutes ago, rickross said:

 Bob Hartley accomplished more with a less talented team.

 

Pretty premature statement no? Flames were a lottery pick team 3 of the 4 years Hartley was coach and the team he did take to the playoffs won a whle 1 more game against Anaheim that GG's team did last year.

23 minutes ago, rickross said:

 It's never 100% on the coach but like Redfire pointed out, the impact if a coach like Babcock can't be ignored. There are 2-3 years with the majority of this group intact including coaches, GG was brought in with the purpose of taking this team to the next level. We are a much improved team no doubt but I'd hesitate to say we've distinguished ourselves amongst the elite contenders in this league.

 

But what also shouldn't be ignored is that IMO the Leafs also have much more talent up front and have an elite talent in Mathews the flames don't have. What was Babock's impact his first year in Toronto? What was his impact his last several year's in Detroit? I happen to think Babcock is an elite coach (and there arn't that many of thse BTW) and even he struggled during the back half of his year's in Detroit. Impact of a coach can't be ignored but it can also be very overrated.

 

27 minutes ago, rickross said:

If they believe the right pieces are in place, all it should take is the right coach to steer them through, right? 

 

I don't think it is near that simple no. There are so many factors that go into winning a cup that I don't think it's as simple as right coach + right players = Stanley cup. Otherwise how do you account for the fact that Washington hasn't won 1 or really even really competed much for one. There is a tremendous amount of luck involved in winning a cup that I do not believe can be easily dismissed. You need to get hot at the right time, avoid injuries, goalie step up, unheralded players step up, right match ups etc etc etc. 

 

For sure question away if Gulutzan is the right coach. IMO that hasn't been answered yet just like I don't think the question of is this the right group of players has been answered yet either. They've got 81 more games to prove it to us but all I do know is it will take more than a few regular season games to get that answer so the "panic" over 1 game is really unnecessary. (that's not directed at anyone in particular it's a general statement)

 

For the record, I also do not think the Flames are a cup contender this year despite what management thinks.I personally think most people overrate the Flames and while I think the are a playoff team I don't think they are at the level of contention that many have put them at. I don't expect a division or conference contending team and I happen to believe the Oilers will win the West this year so i'm not going to panic if they drop a game to them.

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Do we have the players to win a cup? Truthful answer NO!!  Do we have the players to be highly competitive?  YES!!

Do we have a coach to win a cup? Truthful answer NO!!  Do we have a coach to be highly competitive?  After last night performance??

The players and the Coach had a bad game. Now it is up to GG to do his best on his end to ensure the players have a good performance against WPG.

 

So all of their efforts and success last year is undone in 1 night?

 

I guess I differ with you and rick in that I think the job Gulutzan did last year deserves more than a pre-season and 1 regular season game to start questioning. The coach has shown he can have success with this team so i'm willing to give it more than 1 game to jump to conclusions. And again, i don't give a rats butt about the preseason. 

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

So all of their efforts and success last year is undone in 1 night?

 

I guess I differ with you and rick in that I think the job Gulutzan did last year deserves more than a pre-season and 1 regular season game to start questioning. The coach has shown he can have success with this team so i'm willing to give it more than 1 game to jump to conclusions. And again, i don't give a rats butt about the preseason. 

Not once have I said we need to replace GG What I have said is GG needs to improve as much or more than most of our players.

"i'm willing to give it more than 1 game to jump to conclusions. And again, i don't give a rats butt about the preseason" is this your take on Brouwer also?

[rickross]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Pretty premature statement no? Flames were a lottery pick team 3 of the 4 years Hartley was coach and the team he did take to the playoffs won a whle 1 more game against Anaheim that GG's team did last year.

Not denying GG's potential to go further but until he does Hartley has had the most success. Sure he only won 1 game against Anaheim but he still won a game against Anaheim!...not too mention he did get his team to the 2nd round. GG has time to surpass that and he does have a better team than Hartley had at his helm, so he should be able to exceed BH. 

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

But what also shouldn't be ignored is that IMO the Leafs also have much more talent up front and have an elite talent in Mathews the flames don't have. What was Babock's impact his first year in Toronto? What was his impact his last several year's in Detroit? I happen to think Babcock is an elite coach (and there arn't that many of thse BTW) and even he struggled during the back half of his year's in Detroit. Impact of a coach can't be ignored but it can also be very overrated.

Over time players do eventually tune out coaches but a coach like Babcock leaves a lasting impression on his players over their careers. Shannahan knows this and thats why he chose to hire him to lead the lowly Leafs back to relevance. I think the case with BH was his knack for intimidation and yelling down at his players wore thin, GG is a players coach with a better understanding of todays game, he's demanding but takes a softer approach and talks to his players not AT them.

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think it is near that simple no. There are so many factors that go into winning a cup that I don't think it's as simple as right coach + right players = Stanley cup. Otherwise how do you account for the fact that Washington hasn't won 1 or really even really competed much for one. There is a tremendous amount of luck involved in winning a cup that I do not believe can be easily dismissed. You need to get hot at the right time, avoid injuries, goalie step up, unheralded players step up, right match ups etc etc etc. 

 

For sure question away if Gulutzan is the right coach. IMO that hasn't been answered yet just like I don't think the question of is this the right group of players has been answered yet either. They've got 81 more games to prove it to us but all I do know is it will take more than a few regular season games to get that answer so the "panic" over 1 game is really unnecessary. (that's not directed at anyone in particular it's a general statement)

 

For the record, I also do not think the Flames are a cup contender this year despite what management thinks.I personally think most people overrate the Flames and while I think the are a playoff team I don't think they are at the level of contention that many have put them at. I don't expect a division or conference contending team and I happen to believe the Oilers will win the West this year so i'm not going to panic if they drop a game to them.

It's definitely not as simple of good players and great coach = Stanley Cup, however a team as young as the Flames needs solid coaching, structure and an identity to play with. I think part of the struggle is the organization still doesn't know exactly what it has in some of its prospects and younger players like Bennett and Lazar so they and the coaches have to learn from each other and that takes time. I agree luck plays its part to a degree but the foundation for winning teams is what makes them successful, Pens didn't just pull of back to back wins off pure luck. 

 

I don't think the Flames are cup contenders this year either, would love to be proven wrong but they still have a ways to go. Flames most successful season came when they were pegged as underdogs, the minute expectations were placed they faltered and failed to make the playoffs. It's a slippery slope, I understand management expecting more after making some big investments in the offseason but I'd agree they've over stated their position right now. The mandate should always be to win but be realistic about it. 

[DirtyDeeds]

Until GG wins a SC ring it is almost laughable to try and imply he is a better coach than BH.

 

 

[cross16]

3 hours ago, redfire11 said:

Not once have I said we need to replace GG What I have said is GG needs to improve as much or more than most of our players.

"i'm willing to give it more than 1 game to jump to conclusions. And again, i don't give a rats butt about the preseason" is this your take on Brouwer also?

 

Different situation. Gulutzan arrived here with a bit of promise, imo, and then had some success lasst yar. Brouwer was a terrible signing and then had a terrible year. 

 

One is a pattern and warratns criticsm, one is not and warrants a chance. 

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Until GG wins a SC ring it is almost laughable to try and imply he is a better coach than BH.

 

 

 

So you would hire Marc Crawford tomorrow if you could then? 

 

no one implied he was a better coach but fact is Hartley wasn't getting the job done here.  

[CheersMan]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

So you would hire Marc Crawford tomorrow if you could then? 

 

no one implied he was a better coach but fact is Hartley wasn't getting the job done here.  

Until GG wins a SC ring it is almost laughable to try and imply he is a better coach than MC or BH.

You keep forgetting the wins BH extracted from a team going thru a full blown rebuild.

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Until GG wins a SC ring it is almost laughable to try and imply he is a better coach than MC or BH.

You keep forgetting the wins BH extracted from a team going thru a full blown rebuild.

 

We don't need to go through this again. Hartley deserves some credit and I acknowledge that but a lottery pick team 3 out of 4 years is not getting the job done. A change needed to be made and we shall see if Gulutzan is better. Its too early to tell either way and that's all I said. 

winning a cup doesn't make you a great coach just like not winning one doesn't mean you arnt a good coach. 

[CheersMan]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

We don't need to go through this again. Hartley deserves some credit and I acknowledge that but a lottery pick team 3 out of 4 years is not getting the job done. A change needed to be made and we shall see if Gulutzan is better. Its too early to tell either way and that's all I said. 

winning a cup doesn't make you a great coach just like not winning one doesn't mean you arnt a good coach. 

Your right, we don’t need to go thru that again.  I thought BH was doing a decent job, with the tools (no pun intended) offered to him.  I though BH deserved one more year, the year remaining on his contract, an opportunity to work with the newer younger tools, then decide his fate.  But BH is gone, I’ve said my piece and moved on.  I’m not after GG’s head, I support him 100% at the moment.

[rickross]

So it's been said we still don't have the right roster to win a cup yet. If we don't have the right group or core to win now, are we still rebuilding? We're obviously not starting over but we're still missing some key ingredients before we can officially consider ourselves perennial contenders. We still don't know for sure if we'll have full time NHL ready goalies in our prospects, and we could be looking at another goalie makeover in 1-2 years. We still lack depth at RW and we could be looking at all new coaches within 2 years. Overall we do have some solid young players on this team however it keeps coming up that we lack that generational talent that gives us that extra edge. Flames seem to almost be stuck in purgatory, we're a good team but not good enough yet. 

[tmac70]

We trended young now cycle old veterans it is a common cycle here. How many rookies on this club this year? The plan is there is no plan. 

 

 

[cccsberg]

8 hours ago, rickross said:

So it's been said we still don't have the right roster to win a cup yet. If we don't have the right group or core to win now, are we still rebuilding? We're obviously not starting over but we're still missing some key ingredients before we can officially consider ourselves perennial contenders. We still don't know for sure if we'll have full time NHL ready goalies in our prospects, and we could be looking at another goalie makeover in 1-2 years. We still lack depth at RW and we could be looking at all new coaches within 2 years. Overall we do have some solid young players on this team however it keeps coming up that we lack that generational talent that gives us that extra edge. Flames seem to almost be stuck in purgatory, we're a good team but not good enough yet. 

Our second tier stars may in the end be our Achilles heal, too early to tell.  If we get elite level goaltending at some point in the next 5 years we’ll have a chance.  Failing to go into the toilet for several years to scoop up a generational player or two leaves us lacking and in need of an alternative strategy...

[tmac70]

15 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

So all of their efforts and success last year is undone in 1 night?

 

I guess I differ with you and rick in that I think the job Gulutzan did last year deserves more than a pre-season and 1 regular season game to start questioning. The coach has shown he can have success with this team so i'm willing to give it more than 1 game to jump to conclusions. And again, i don't give a rats butt about the preseason. 

That year is gone we are now into a new season. Fast forward to 2018, preseason, no intensity everyone, coach even weighs in on the lack there of. First game, no intensity once again, coach weights in but hey relax its only the 1st game its early in the season. 

 

The excuses grow old, I don't expect to win every game but I do expect an effort from my club EVERY GAME. I get  player or couple  may have an off nights, but when a 95% of your club collectively don't show up it raises an eyebrow.

Really if you break it down just asking for maximum effort of what 15 minutes average per game.  Win or lose just boardinging show up to play, playing well and losing is easier to handle than not showing up at all. 

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, rickross said:

So it's been said we still don't have the right roster to win a cup yet. If we don't have the right group or core to win now, are we still rebuilding? We're obviously not starting over but we're still missing some key ingredients before we can officially consider ourselves perennial contenders. We still don't know for sure if we'll have full time NHL ready goalies in our prospects, and we could be looking at another goalie makeover in 1-2 years. We still lack depth at RW and we could be looking at all new coaches within 2 years. Overall we do have some solid young players on this team however it keeps coming up that we lack that generational talent that gives us that extra edge. Flames seem to almost be stuck in purgatory, we're a good team but not good enough yet. 

Man you need to give the situation here time to evolve. I would say we are in the developing stage providing our core the experience they need in order to mature collectively to be consistent challengers. It seems constant change within the cap world is the only constant. You could take any team today and pick out where they are weak. This is why IMO the forward pairings need to be the right chemistries, we may never have an elite RW for our top line but if we have a good contributor the results should be good from the entire line. Maybe next season we have a pairing of Jankowski and Dube for another line. Personally I like where the team is heading.

Our defense outside of the 6th and 7th position is a very good group, slide Valimaki and Andersson into the mix next season and I really like our defense.

Our Goalies now Smith and Lack are good experienced layers that bridge us into a good prospect pool of goalies. I have to believe out of Gilles, Rittich, Parsons, Schneider and MacDonald we have someone good to step in.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

That year is gone we are now into a new season. Fast forward to 2018, preseason, no intensity everyone, coach even weighs in on the lack there of. First game, no intensity once again, coach weights in but hey relax its only the 1st game its early in the season. 

 

The excuses grow old, I don't expect to win every game but I do expect an effort from my club EVERY GAME. I get  player or couple  may have an off nights, but when a 95% of your club collectively don't show up it raises an eyebrow.

Really if you break it down just asking for maximum effort of what 15 minutes average per game.  Win or lose just boardinging show up to play, playing well and losing is easier to handle than not showing up at all. 

 

Which isn't realistic. 

 

Penguins didn't show up last night, is their season over now too? do you think less of them?